|
muscles like this! posted:kind of awkward that Dorothy got completely shut out. I found a theory/realization about that when I was waiting to see if they would explain why narcissist Immortus would kill her worshipful followers. There wasn't one, and it was only mentioned again once. Here goes: Wally's relationship to Torminox (Casey's dad, I had to look the name up too) is the same as Dorothy's relationship to Casey. Casey is her dad's counterpart/nemesis, while Dorothy is the same for Wally. I think the writing on the wall for the show from Discovery-WB being a trainwreck only came in the middle of the season planning, not the start. Dorothy and Casey were probably going to become full-time Doom Patrol, though only full cast in a S5 that wasn't to be, and their counterparts would matter long-term too. Once the writers had to clear the deck of characters and stories to focus on closing out main character arcs the way they did, Dorothy and Casey and their nemeses had to go, more or less. Casey was shoehorned back in half-way to be Jane's love interest since the Fog and the Dadaists were older, more forgotten characters. We'll probably never know for sure, but it does explain a decision that seems, well, bad. What I can't explain is why they got rid of Timothy Dalton when they were clearly still able to get him. I figured it was money or scheduling or something like that.
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2023 09:49
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 15:41 |
|
|
Onomarchus posted:Casey was shoehorned back in half-way to be Jane's love interest since the Fog and the Dadaists were older, more forgotten characters. To me, it felt like the Fog was intended to be a stepping/development stone for Jane, rather than end game. She was there to get Jane comfortable with wanting things for herself, with sexuality, for closing some of those gaps from her formation as an alter being relatively late. But it's my suspicion that Shelley was meant to be ultimately bad for Jane, as she was too focused on Jane exclusively with the rest of her alters being footnotes. I'm not familiar with the comics source material beyond general summaries, and I know the Fog in the show was fairly different from the Fog in the comics. But something that stood out for me in those summaries is that the comics version of the Fog could permanently absorb people, after which their minds would remain intact within the Fog (and comics Crazy Jane gave the Fog indigestion from being too many at once). I'm too lazy to flip through the episodes right now to find it, but I recall there being a scene in the show where at least some of the alters wanted to stay within the Fog rather than going back to the stressful and dangerous real world with Jane at the helm. I feel that there was a future character arc planned where Shelley would offer to house the rest of the alters, freeing Jane to fully be her own person. And the inevitable disastrous fallout from that would fuel Jane's continued development and leave her better prepared for seeking out relationships that better fit her as a whole.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2023 17:28
|
|
|
Onomarchus posted:What I can't explain is why they got rid of Timothy Dalton when they were clearly still able to get him. I figured it was money or scheduling or something like that. Dalton outright has said he has difficulty traveling nowadays so it might have just been that.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2023 22:06
|
|
|
Yeah he was initially written out in S3 because he wasn't able to travel during COVID.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2023 22:32
|
|
|
Also isn't there one more episode or is the US an episode ahead? We just got 11 in Canada. EDIT: Yeah it seems we are one week behind. Mokinokaro fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Nov 10, 2023 |
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2023 23:23
|
|
|
US just aired episode 12 this week, which was the finale. Jeremy Carver gave a post mortem interview and he confirmed that going into this season they wrote it like the show was ending. He said Cliff could have had a slightly different ending where instead of seeing the future he would have gone to each of those events and witnessed them personally.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2023 23:33
|
|
|
Cliff's ending was perfect as presented. It's fine if he just witnesses the events. His fundamental anxiety was that he'd irreparably screwed up all of his descendants through his irresponsibility, and he gets to see that life goes on, for better or worse, but usually better (even with Rory repeating some of Cliff's mistakes). It's perfect closure for him, and I'm glad he was actually able to achieve peace in the end. I also liked Rouge's ending, basically embracing being an awful person and purging her past / taking care of the Ant Farm in a way the others wouldn't do. Though truth be told, the Ant Farm was really inconsistently handled over the course of the series; basically opposed to everything the Doom Patrol represent, especially after the DP stormed their headquarters, but then the Ant Farm just sort of... disregards them? All the Dada/Bureau stuff was earlier in the timeline and oddly kind of mishandled in its own way -- like, that was right smack in the middle of the period when Woodrow Wilson had re-segregated the federal government, and it would have been easy to hammer on that point and tie it to Cyborg's ongoing plotline at his time (which dealt with racism among other things) and do better at delineating the thematic struggle between order/regimentation/'normalcy' and the Doom Patrol's weird anarchy. The whole series has been kind of like that, showing the most seams and dangling threads when it comes to plot and themes, but drat if they didn't totally nail characterization. Good episode overall, good ending.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2023 21:47
|
|
|
usenet celeb 1992 posted:The whole series has been kind of like that, showing the most seams and dangling threads when it comes to plot and themes, but drat if they didn't totally nail characterization. Yeah, this is what I think of when I think about the show overall. I'd frequently get pulled out of a random episode because I found the plot mechanics unconvincing, poorly delivered or particularly graceless -- Larry being relegated to the subplot dimension this year was not good -- but then I'd get sucked back in when they did something emotional. It'll never be a favourite of mine, but some parts really got me.
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2023 02:29
|
|
|
Speaking of notable, shall we say Oscar-worthy characterization, I can't tell where Cliff Steele ends and Brendan Fraser's character in The Whale begins. They even both have a pathetic masturbation scene! Biggest difference is it's Fraser himself in the suit/CG not Riley Shanahan. This season has been in the can so long I doubt it could have been much* influenced by that movie, but I reckon Fraser was (type)cast in it based on this one TV show, not the older stuff. Movie did the same TV-based typecasting with his movie-daughter Sadie Sink (though not Hong Chau). I wonder if the last episode had anyone proofreading it for certain implications. Examples: 1) Want to have a gay relationship? Best go off-planet. Not completely, since there's the grounded earthbound couple of Cliff's daughter and daughter-in-law, but they're not really focal point characters. 2) Did Rouge burn Larry's (first) kid alive? I think she did, or tried to, but it was only in the implication. Yeesh. *Maybe the last scene of the ending, though big maybe.
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2023 09:55
|
|
|
Onomarchus posted:I wonder if the last episode had anyone proofreading it for certain implications. Examples: I saw this delightfully described on Tumblr as "they tried to avoid burying their gays so hard they all got shot into space instead." I do wish we got just a smidge more clarity on what Larry, Rama, and Keeg are up to with that whole sun situation. I'm sure they're all still alive, aware, and happy in some fashion, but I haven't the foggiest on what that actually entails.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2023 00:06
|
|
|
Huh, more like bury your straights here. Didn't realize that. If you do the standard TV world thing of assuming everyone in only straight relationships is straight, classify Cyborg as just an adjunct, and peg Rouge as asexual when it's actually more undealt with (or I forgot something) then the straight regulars died, the others survived. Reminds me of the one thing I forgot to mention. The one big thing I knew from the comics was the one thing that would have been better: The Brain and Mallah were in a more-than-maybe-implied gay relationship. I doubt this was changed or covered up just to avoid burying a gay brain, but it tracks with the trend.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2023 09:50
|
|
|
PurpleLizardWizard posted:I saw this delightfully described on Tumblr as "they tried to avoid burying their gays so hard they all got shot into space instead." Well when he saw the past version of himself, he was told that his life wasn't ending, that it was going to be a new beginning. I sort of got the impression that their union created another big bang, with Rama being able to supply all the necessary elements for new life. I'm probably overthinking it though
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2023 13:30
|
|
|
"are you.. animal-vegetable-mineral man?" "hmm I thought that would be a lot harder" i'll miss this weird rear end show, robotman got a perfect ending
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2023 18:13
|
|
|
Yeah that ending was absolutely nailed outside of Dorothy.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2023 19:33
|
|
|
even though they knew going in this was the last season it felt like they kind of sprinted to the conclusion for all of the characters. cliff's ending still worked the best of the bunch, but that crystal thing was super contrived. negative man's ending made little to no sense to me, and all of the lead-in between the past/future spirit was equally as confusing. madame rouge barely gets an ending and it's pretty much a "gently caress all of the complex introspection we just had, she's a bad guy!" jane's thing kept building for four seasons and her big trauma reveal was done so quickly, but her thing felt kinda weak anyway in the sense that they kept stretching it out and didn't really know where to go with it cyborgs "i don't wanna" flip flopping was kind of entertaining for half a season, especially with the IT guy gags, but his never-before-mentioned gang of friends being the catalyst for all of it was a slog to get through. dorothy/danny barely factor in, and dorothy gets a weak finish the casey stuff feels like it would have worked better if it had more than half a season to be a thing rita's ending was funny and all but she kind of got the short end of the stick too in the end i'm just surprised we got four seasons of a mostly grant morrison inspired doom patrol, didn't see that coming
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2023 20:03
|
|
|
I’ve already forgotten what Dorothy’s ending even was and it’s only been two days since I watched it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2023 20:41
|
|
|
I didn't even think she got an ending, she disappears along with everyone else down the big hole at the end of the musical episode and that's the last we see of her. Casey also disappears at that point but at least she gets to briefly show up at the end and pointedly say "oh yeah, I was just talking to Dorothy off-camera too." Just bizarre.zer0spunk posted:in the end i'm just surprised we got four seasons of a mostly grant morrison inspired doom patrol, didn't see that coming Yes, very grateful for that much at least. Also, I'm glad Rachel Pollack finally, in the very last episode, got an acknowledgment in the credits. I didn't care for her comic run at the time, but seeing as the show used some of her ideas (sex ghosts, Codpiece, some others I'm sure) it was a very unfair omission.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2023 20:57
|
|
|
Yay, Harley Quinn has been renewed for a fifth season. Could be some fun interactions between the
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2023 17:21
|
|
|
I kind of want them to put Steph in the series honestly (every other Robin’s appeared in some capacity after all even if they did do Tim dirty), Cass could probably work as well
Larryb fucked around with this message at 18:06 on Nov 17, 2023 |
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2023 17:24
|
|
|
might skip HQ, but still hyped for the kite man spin off
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2023 17:44
|
|
|
Larryb posted:I kind of want them to put Steph in the series honestly (every other Robin’s appeared in some capacity after all even if they did do Tim dirty), Cass could probably work as well No need for any involved introduction, Barbara wheels into the Batcave one day to find Steph and/or Cass there and Bruce is all "Oh, I thought you were dead so I found and trained a replacement".
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2023 20:43
|
|
|
LashLightning posted:No need for any involved introduction, Barbara wheels into the Batcave one day to find Steph and/or Cass there and Bruce is all "Oh, I thought you were dead so I found and trained a replacement". That would be in the spirit of the Harley Quinn series at least
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2023 21:16
|
|
|
RE: Doom Patrol I finally caught the last few episodes and read this thread and saw people praising Cliff's ending and... I completely disagree. I was hugely depressed by the idea of Cliff's grandson ending up just as big a loser deadbeat as Cliff was.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2023 03:47
|
|
|
delightful posted:I finally caught the last few episodes and read this thread and saw people praising Cliff's ending and... I completely disagree. I was hugely depressed by the idea of Cliff's grandson ending up just as big a loser deadbeat as Cliff was.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2023 04:34
|
|
|
MH Knights posted:Yay, Harley Quinn has been renewed for a fifth season. Could be some fun interactions between the I just assumed good things don't happen so this was a lovely surprise.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2023 10:50
|
|
|
delightful posted:RE: Doom Patrol I said it was a perfect ending for him, I never said it was a happy ending. I wish more shows did realistic endings instead of happily ever after
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2023 14:03
|
|
|
Medullah posted:I said it was a perfect ending for him, I never said it was a happy ending. I wish more shows did realistic endings instead of happily ever after I agree, a bittersweet ending was highly appropriate for Cliff and it really would've rung false if everything turned out perfect for him/his family after all.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2023 14:21
|
|
|
Cliff got to see Rory be a fuckup in a lot of the same ways, but he also got to see the moments of reconciliation and happiness as well. He didn't need Cliff to gently caress up, he didn't need Cliff to pick himself up again, he wasn't permanently hosed up, and that was freeing for Cliff. It's not a perfect life, but for a lot of people, that's just life. If nothing else, at least Rory didn't become a brain in a clanking, half-sensate robot body, so that's something.
usenet celeb 1992 fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Nov 29, 2023 |
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2023 18:43
|
|
|
I think Cyborg's arc, taken in its totality, was a really beautiful story. From his season 1 superhero goals to Season 2 and 3 making him figure out what those goals mean/if he actually wanted that, to genuinely getting away from the superhero business and change lives in a more personal way. Its just the kind of story I really didn't think any superhero character would get and it was so refreshing to see.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2023 18:59
|
|
|
Finished up the last few episodes of Doom Patrol....and I don't have many thoughts. Think it felt a bit rushed at the ending and maybe a bit too poignant considering the tone throughout the show. Closing with Cliff was also an odd choice. Weird way to fade to black......could have simply moved his ending up in the slotting. Doesn't matter much. Unique show. Liked it a lot. Thought the finale could have been better.....but I wasn't disappointed.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2023 00:54
|
|
|
They did it that way because the first shots of the show are Cliff as well. It was to bookend the thing. And yeah the last season is a bit rushed. You can tell they had more planned out of this storyline.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2023 01:17
|
|
|
Mokinokaro posted:They did it that way because the first shots of the show are Cliff as well. It was to bookend the thing. Ah.....I don't remember the first episode. Still feel that tone-wise.....it was odd to end with Cliff. Too poignant and final for a show that was overtly outlandish and goofy throughout. Moreso because I thought Jane had kind of become the central character.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2023 01:23
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 15:41 |
|
|
Did HQ get no advertising? I didn't even know it came out till I started seeing vertically cropped clips on Facebook. I was expecting Venture Bros level of waiting. Sad they didn't do more with SocDem mayor Joker, but he's the Joker, whatcha gonna do. Surprised they did a Killing Joke thing, since that doesn't really vibe with the over the top Looney Toons violence but I think they set up some fun stuff for next season with Sirens. Laughed when Babs pitched Bird of Prey even though they're missing all the bird themed members. Also they just copied Judy Greer on Archer for Nora Feeze didn't they. GigaPeon fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Dec 28, 2023 |
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2023 21:05
|
|
