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Phone
Jul 30, 2005

親子丼をほしい。
This is a capybara


This is capybara games


This is their last game


This is Jim Guthrie


This is Zelda


And this is an Xbox


Here's a Steam link: https://store.steampowered.com/app/250680/BELOW/

And a trailer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsBpnnq7Ep4

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dishwasherlove
Nov 26, 2007

The ultimate fusion of man and machine.

Congrats to the devs for making a tough game that is even harder to Google solutions for. Can someone tell me how to open the diamond door on level 3? Also is there a path from level 4 to 5 or is the expected route the shortcut to the underground city?

Phone
Jul 30, 2005

親子丼をほしい。
Polygon's review is up: https://www.polygon.com/reviews/2018/12/18/18145453/below-game-review-xbox-one-windows-pc

quote:

The most dangerous monsters I encounter can be cleared from afar, making use of a bow. It’s a bit fiddly, but it’s good enough, in a pinch. Arrows are made by collecting materials and crafting.

Collecting means repetition and time-consuming busy-ness, demanding that I pay my dues in terms of picking up shards and digging up turnips and looting dead bodies. This tedium is not a design flaw. It’s the entire point. The designers know I will die, often. They want death to sting.

If I die in an inconvenient place, my new life might be spent doing 90 percent of the things I did in my previous life, getting back to that original spot, in the hope that I’ll spend 10 percent of my lifespan pushing into unexplored territory.

There are times when this is a generous calculation, when my new life achieves less than my old life, when my new corpse offers fewer resources than my old corpse. These are the moments when I wonder why I’m playing this game, which wastes my time and makes me feel like an idiot.

Tough games generally reward me by offering up small lessons, each time I die. In most games, I’ll notice that the big Dark Souls-y boss I’m trying to kill has a particular movement or flaw, and I test that weak spot until I discover the answer.

But Below’s lives are often meaningless and mundane. It is not uncommon for me to spend an hour traveling down to my corpse, only to die within a few feet of my goal. When this happens, I howl. I turn off my PC. I vow to never return. After a short while, I return.

Why? I can’t say for sure, but I think it’s a desire to simply understand what the gently caress is going on with this game. One of its greatest joys is grappling with its demonic determination to keep me in the dark.

Below offers no tutorial, no guidance about its arcane systems. Even after all these hours of play, there are fundamental pillars of design that I don’t fully understand. The interplay of discoverable keys and marbles and light domes and shards and stone monuments is an unfolding mystery.

This doesn’t seem to be a case of the developers laying out a carefully plotted narrative, coyly peeling its secrets. It’s a statement that play is about discovery, even when the thing being discovered is the game’s basic rules.

At one point, after some hours in, I come across a room, blocked by lumber. I shoot the wood with a fire arrow, and am astonished that it actually works, just like it would in a “normal” video game. I’m so brutalized by this game that I’m grateful when it does something that seems ordinary.

f#a#
Sep 6, 2004

I can't promise it will live up to the hype, but I tried my best.
I was hyped for this game, maybe a bit too much so. Rest assured, its presentation is spot-on and there are some interesting concepts in play. But its challenges are one-note so far (level 9)--combat is clunky and the rooms are all too samey, likely thanks to the decision to go procgen.

Mostly this makes me want to do another run of Rain World, a similarly brutal and abstract play for survival with fantastic atmosphere. But I'll stick with it.

Bardeh
Dec 2, 2004

Fun Shoe

dishwasherlove posted:

Congrats to the devs for making a tough game that is even harder to Google solutions for. Can someone tell me how to open the diamond door on level 3?

You need to hit the hexagon button with the hammer. I didn't get a hammer until further down, though, so it might mean going back.

I've managed to get down to floor 11 so far, where things really start to ramp up. I almost gave up around floor 6/7 because I kept dying and hadn't unlocked new shortcuts, which meant a run back from Floor 2 every time and it really gets old. I think I went through a 2-3 hour loop of repeated death runs with no progress, but I did finally break past it and started to enjoy the game much more.

I think I would massively prefer the survival aspects to be toned down, and for death to take you back to the previous bonfire instead of right back to the start. The core combat and loot mechanics aren't compelling enough to justify this permadeath rogue-lite design, IMO. As it stands right now, I died really deep down, in a dangerous area, and getting back to my corpse without the lantern is going to be a real fuckin bitch. I'm gonna need to farm for a good long while to get stuff that'll make it easier, but if I step on one trap all that work is undone.

The atmosphere and the music is so good, but the gameplay systems make it difficult for me to really sink my teeth into it. I'll probably press on and finish the game, but I wish they'd made some different decisions when they designed it.

The_White_Crane
May 10, 2008

dishwasherlove posted:

Congrats to the devs for making a tough game that is even harder to Google solutions for. Can someone tell me how to open the diamond door on level 3? Also is there a path from level 4 to 5 or is the expected route the shortcut to the underground city?

The door with a diamond carved into it can be opened by shooting a nearby switch with an arrow.
There is no route from 4 to 5 AFAIK.

Gameplay tips for people:
- [An early item spot]At the very first bonfire you encounter inside the dungeon, you can follow the water through the hole in the north wall to reach an area with a pond and some items. At the back of this area is a waterfall; walk through that to find a shortcut back to the beach you land on with a bridge you can drop by cutting a rope and a chest which will always contain an empty bottle.
- [Second early item]Once you get onto the beach at the rear of the island via the exit on Floor 3, you can swim north to a shipwreck with good loot on it.
- Occasionally you will find what look like gravestones with glowing blue crystals embedded in them; when you activate these they will give you weapons or armour. The thing most people don't realise about these is that after the first time you activate them and they give you their associated loot then on subsequent lives they can spawn any weapon or armour which you have previously acquired but do not currently possess.
- The items called [Something] Marble are used to upgrade your storage space; feed them to the blue hole on the rear wall.
- Tapping the block button will do a shield bash; this can break the guard of blocking enemies.
- The spear can be used for fishing; hold down the attack button when standing in water to do a skewering attack.

The_White_Crane fucked around with this message at 10:27 on Dec 19, 2018

Bardeh
Dec 2, 2004

Fun Shoe
Onto floor 16. It's pretty much required to farm stuff and store it in the pocket for these really deep floors. Running straight back without spending an hour or more gathering stuff in advance is pretty much suicide. It's relatively easy to just farm floors 2+3 to get the gems to kit yourself out, but it feels like busywork. It does help that you can plan it out in advance by storing stuff, but I still don't think I like it. I'd prefer more permanence between deaths to cut down on what soon starts to feel like busywork. Especially for equipment.

Bardeh fucked around with this message at 15:47 on Dec 19, 2018

The_White_Crane
May 10, 2008

Bardeh posted:

Onto floor 16. It's pretty much required to farm stuff and store it in the pocket for these really deep floors. Running straight back without spending an hour or more gathering stuff in advance is pretty much suicide. It's relatively easy to just farm floors 2+3 to get the gems to kit yourself out, but it feels like busywork. It does help that you can plan it out in advance by storing stuff, but I still don't think I like it. I'd prefer more permanence between deaths to cut down on what soon starts to feel like busywork. Especially for equipment.

I agree about equipment, certainly. Because you can regain all of it without ever going back to the depths due to the way the tombstones work, it's just a matter of loving around in the top 3 levels for half an hour. Letting you keep it when you die would circumvent time rather than challenge.

Bardeh
Dec 2, 2004

Fun Shoe
I made it to what I think is the bottom floor.

Below the desert area are a few weird hi-tech floors where nothing appears to happen. There aren't any enemies or items, you just run through five floors and then reach the bottom. There's a black obelisk there but my lantern doesn't seem to activate it. I haven't gotten all the shards, so I assume I gotta go back up and find all the others?

The_White_Crane
May 10, 2008
Try shining the lantern on it for longer than you think you should need to. It ought to work the same as the one in floor 4. Stand on the little diamond space in front and give it like, 20-30 seconds to be sure.

Bardeh
Dec 2, 2004

Fun Shoe

The_White_Crane posted:

Try shining the lantern on it for longer than you think you should need to. It ought to work the same as the one in floor 4. Stand on the little diamond space in front and give it like, 20-30 seconds to be sure.

Huh, thanks that worked. I got squished by some blocks and my corpse was on the beach with the lantern and all my items???

The_White_Crane
May 10, 2008
'Cause you can't access it without the lantern you get a freebie if you die in there.

Oh, I'm going to take the opportunity to warn everyone about the one giant sack of bullshit in the game:

:siren: When you reach a desert area, the small structure on the left contains a spike trap directly in front of an item. :siren:

It's literally the only hazard in a zone which is otherwise completely safe, and which is the sort of liminal space which was always safe before, and you'll probably step on it before you find the next shortcut and lose quite a lot of very tough progress. It's one of the biggest "gently caress you"s I've ever seen in a video game, and I deeply resent whichever designer decided to put it there.

I was lucky, because I'd been kindling bonfires as I went, so I only had to redo one floor. If I'd had to redo the whole zone before it, I swear I'd have dropped the game and never looked back.

The_White_Crane fucked around with this message at 19:40 on Dec 19, 2018

Bardeh
Dec 2, 2004

Fun Shoe

The_White_Crane posted:

'Cause you can't access it without the lantern you get a freebie if you die in there.

Oh, I'm going to take the opportunity to warn everyone about the one giant sack of bullshit in the game:

:siren: When you reach a desert area, the small structure on the left contains a spike trap directly in front of an item. :siren:

It's literally the only hazard in a zone which is otherwise completely safe, and which is the sort of liminal space which was always safe before, and you'll probably step on it before you find the next shortcut and lose quite a lot of very tough progress. It's one of the biggest "gently caress you"s I've ever seen in a video game, and I deeply resent whichever designer decided to put it there.

I was lucky, because I'd been kindling bonfires as I went, so I only had to redo one floor. If I'd had to redo the whole zone before it, I swear I'd have dropped the game and never looked back.

Ah good point. I also somehow managed to completely miss Floor 4 the first time around which has another of these weird hi-tech zones. I've died a couple of times in there too trying to get back out. As far as I can see, I need to do those two tech zones, and then I've got a few lantern pieces to find. I can't see anywhere lower to go after the desert, so I'm gonna assume that's the bottom. Finding these lantern shards is gonna be a pain though, particularly as I'm almost certain I missed a few in the annoying dark zones.

The_White_Crane
May 10, 2008

Bardeh posted:

I can't see anywhere lower to go after the desert, so I'm gonna assume that's the bottom. Finding these lantern shards is gonna be a pain though,

There isn't anywhere below the desert, but try swimming south from the shore as far as you can.

Verviticus
Mar 13, 2006

I'm just a total piece of shit and I'm not sure why I keep posting on this site. Christ, I have spent years with idiots giving me bad advice about online dating and haven't noticed that the thread I'm in selects for people that can't talk to people worth a damn.
should all of the light bits be acquired in order? i have 1, 3 and 4 but not 2 and im kinda trying to decide if i should backtrack everything before going into coldtown

Bardeh
Dec 2, 2004

Fun Shoe

Verviticus posted:

should all of the light bits be acquired in order? i have 1, 3 and 4 but not 2 and im kinda trying to decide if i should backtrack everything before going into coldtown

They don't need to be gotten in order, but you do need to get all of them at some point. So it's up to you if you wanna come back later to pick up any you missed, or methodically get them all in order. I would say don't sweat it, unless you're using a guide you will almost certainly miss some, and the gear you get later in the game makes it easy to go back later and sweep up any stragglers.

Verviticus
Mar 13, 2006

I'm just a total piece of shit and I'm not sure why I keep posting on this site. Christ, I have spent years with idiots giving me bad advice about online dating and haven't noticed that the thread I'm in selects for people that can't talk to people worth a damn.

Bardeh posted:

They don't need to be gotten in order, but you do need to get all of them at some point. So it's up to you if you wanna come back later to pick up any you missed, or methodically get them all in order. I would say don't sweat it, unless you're using a guide you will almost certainly miss some, and the gear you get later in the game makes it easy to go back later and sweep up any stragglers.

yeah ok that makes sense

The_White_Crane posted:

- Occasionally you will find what look like gravestones with glowing blue crystals embedded in them; when you activate these they will give you weapons or armour. The thing most people don't realise about these is that after the first time you activate them and they give you their associated loot then on subsequent lives they can spawn any weapon or armour which you have previously acquired but do not currently possess.


i cant actually remember where the hell these are, now

Bardeh
Dec 2, 2004

Fun Shoe
There are two quickly accessible after a death. The first in the cave by the first bonfire on the beach - unlock the shortcut on Floor 1 to get it. The second on the North Beach - swim up a little ways on the right hand side and you'll see it.

Those two are useful for quickly getting a headstart after you die, and others are often found in side rooms on the various floors. Usually there'll be an obstruction - vines you need to burn with a torch, a switch you need to shoot with an arrow or hit with a hammer, that sort of thing.

Bardeh fucked around with this message at 01:03 on Dec 27, 2018

Verviticus
Mar 13, 2006

I'm just a total piece of shit and I'm not sure why I keep posting on this site. Christ, I have spent years with idiots giving me bad advice about online dating and haven't noticed that the thread I'm in selects for people that can't talk to people worth a damn.
dont like scifi zone :mad:

Bardeh posted:

There are two quickly accessible after a death. The first in the cave by the first bonfire on the beach - unlock the shortcut on Floor 1 to get it. The second on the North Beach - swim up a little ways on the right hand side and you'll see it.

ah thanks. i remembered shipwreck one but forgot the other

Verviticus fucked around with this message at 06:34 on Dec 27, 2018

Powerful Two-Hander
Mar 10, 2004

Mods please change my name to "Tooter Skeleton" TIA.


Rise from your grave thread!

I've made it to floor 7 ish and I have a question on shortcuts, specifically the lifts: are they one way?

If I ride one up then I'm back at the start and I can go back down, but if I do go down and then I leave it there, it's now at the bottom right? So if I die I then can't use it to go down again, in which case, what's the point i nhaving it if the only way to use it is to light a bonfire, take the shortcut back to zero then either teleport back (wasting the bonfire) or walk all the way bac kdown.

Bardeh
Dec 2, 2004

Fun Shoe
When you die everything resets, including the lifts.

Powerful Two-Hander
Mar 10, 2004

Mods please change my name to "Tooter Skeleton" TIA.


Bardeh posted:

When you die everything resets, including the lifts.


AS in, resets to the top so you can use it again? I mean, that makes sense but I wouldn't be surprised if it was the opposite as a gently caress you.

Bardeh
Dec 2, 2004

Fun Shoe
Yes, you can always use them as a shortcut on a new life to get back down.

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Powerful Two-Hander
Mar 10, 2004

Mods please change my name to "Tooter Skeleton" TIA.


Bardeh posted:

Yes, you can always use them as a shortcut on a new life to get back down.


Thanks, guess that means this si the perfect tiem to go back up and work my way down again picking up/farming stuff I've missed on the earlier levels e.g. lamp shards which i literally only just realised were a thing.

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