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Welcome goonlings to the Awful Book of the Month! In this thread, we choose one work of Resources: Project Gutenberg - http://www.gutenberg.org - A database of over 17000 books available online. If you can suggest books from here, that'd be the best. SparkNotes - http://www.sparknotes.com/ - A very helpful Cliffnotes-esque site, but much better, in my opinion. If you happen to come in late and need to catch-up, you can get great character/chapter/plot summaries here.  For recommendations on future material, suggestions on how to improve the club, or just a general rant, feel free to PM me. Past Books of the Month [for BOTM before 2016, refer to archives] 2016: January: Three Men in a Boat (To say nothing of the Dog!) by Jerome K. Jerome February:The March Up Country (The Anabasis) of Xenophon March: The Name of the Rose by Umberto Eco April: Plain Tales from the Hills by Rudyard Kipling May: Temple of the Golden Pavilion by Yukio Mishima June:The Vegetarian by Han Kang July:Lud-in-the-Mist by Hope Mirrlees August: Pale Fire by Vladimir Nabokov September:Siddhartha by Herman Hesse October:Right Ho, Jeeves by P.G. Wodehouse November:Kitchen Confidential by Anthony Bourdain December: It Can't Happen Here by Sinclair Lewis 2017: January: Mother Night by Kurt Vonnegut February: The Plague by Albert Camus March: The Dispossessed by Ursula K. LeGuin April: The Conference of the Birds (مقامات الطیور) by Farid ud-Din Attar May: I, Claudius by Robert Graves June: Salt: A World History by Mark Kurlansky July: Ficcionies by Jorge Luis Borges August: My Life and Hard Times by James Thurber September: The Peregrine by J.A. Baker October: Blackwater Vol. I: The Flood by Michael McDowell November: Aquarium by David Vann December: Sir Gawaine and the Green Knight [Author Unknown] 2018 January: Njal's Saga [Author Unknown] February: The Sign of the Four by Arthur Conan Doyle March: Lincoln in the Bardo by George Saunders April: Twenty Days of Turin by Giorgio de Maria May: Lectures on Literature by Vladimir Nabokov June: The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test by Tom Wolfe July: Warlock by Oakley Hall August: All Creatures Great and Small by James Herriott September: The Magus by John Fowles October: I'll Be Gone in the Dark by Michelle McNamara November: Arcadia by Tom Stoppard December: Christmas Stories by Charles Dickens 2019: January: Roadside Picnic by Arkady and Boris Strugatsky February: BEAR by Marian Engel March: V. by Thomas Pynchon April: The Doorbell Rang by Rex Stout May: Thinking, Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman Current:  1491: New Revelations of the Americas Before Columbus by Charles C. Mann Book available here: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000JMKVE4/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1 About the book: quote:1491: New Revelations of the Americas Before Columbus is a 2005 non-fiction book by American author and science writer Charles C. Mann about the pre-Columbian Americas. It was the 2006 winner of the National Academies Communication Award for best creative work that helps the public understanding of topics in science, engineering or medicine. tildes posted:Thank you for the 1491 rec, it’s really good so far! Also mostly very depressing— I’m currently in the “long discussion of how brutal epidemics decimated everyone” section. I guess this is a downside of a lot of information about cultures coming in large part from the people who ended them. canyoneer posted:Charles C Mann explains evidence in his book 1491 that the great grassland prairies were essentially shaped by the Native Americans into giant, sustainable buffalo game preserves. Then the huge genocides through disease or direct warfare threw that balance out of wack and led to a huge population explosion and overpopulation of bison. It's not unlike why deer populations have exploded and need to be managed through hunting because the predators are all gone. Edgar Allen Ho posted:1491 talks about how europeans arrived in North America thinking it was a paradise- forests full of apple trees and blackberry bushes and nuts and beans and game animals- not realizing that it was like this because up until recently, it had all been cultivated land. About the Author(s) quote:Charles C. Mann (born 1955)[1] is an American journalist and author, specializing in scientific topics. His book 1491: New Revelations of the Americas Before Columbus won the National Academies Communication Award for best book of the year. He is the coauthor of four books, and contributing editor for Science, The Atlantic Monthly, and Wired. Themes  Pacing Read as thou wilt is the whole of the law. Please post after you read! Please bookmark the thread to encourage discussion. References and Further Reading https://www.npr.org/2005/08/21/4805434/1491-explores-the-americas-before-columbus https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2002/03/1491/302445/ Final Note: Thanks, and I hope everyone enjoys the book!
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Jun 1, 2019 06:07
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I have started reading this as I'm on a bit of a nonfiction kick and the topic is very interesting! Hopefully I'll manage my time well enough to get it read before the end of the month.
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Jun 2, 2019 04:21
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this was on my wishlist anyway so i just grabbed it. will start in on it tomorrow.
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Jun 4, 2019 03:25
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Sounds like this should be extremely my poo poo, I'm in.
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Jun 4, 2019 13:38
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Was already on my to-read pile, guess I'll pick it up next
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Jun 4, 2019 14:21
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read about a fourth of the book so far, and it has been very interesting. Personally I had never heard of the background on Tisquantum beyond the general US stuff, that possibly the entire reason for backing the pilgrims was potentially a power play to wrest control of the Wampanoag from Massasoit. Or that the burying the fish in the fields wasn't really from investigation an ancient native practice, but might have been copied from his travels in Europe. Also just in general the utter incompetence of the English in general. Reading about the Inca, and while I knew they had developed an Empire, I didn't realize how quickly it arose in the mid 1400's.
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Jun 4, 2019 18:20
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Jack2142 posted:Reading about the Inca, and while I knew they had developed an Empire, I didn't realize how quickly it arose in the mid 1400's. I see you are not an EU4 player. (Global-scope historical strategy game spanning the years 1444 to 1820 where basically any organized political state that existed in the timeframe is playable; one of the more interesting underdog type campaigns is to start out as one of the rising New World powers and try to grow strong enough to resist the Europeans when they come knocking.)
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Jun 6, 2019 10:28
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Groke posted:I see you are not an EU4 player. (Global-scope historical strategy game spanning the years 1444 to 1820 where basically any organized political state that existed in the timeframe is playable; one of the more interesting underdog type campaigns is to start out as one of the rising New World powers and try to grow strong enough to resist the Europeans when they come knocking.) I have like several phundred hours, I just never bothered playing as a colonizing nation.
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Jun 6, 2019 18:24
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Gonna start introducing myself as The Wrath of God.
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Jun 6, 2019 20:57
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I want to know if that was discussed beforehand. "What should my white devil name be?"
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Jun 7, 2019 02:51
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Did this on audiobook a few years back. It was super good. I’m gonna see if I can grab the sequel for my new kindle
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Jun 16, 2019 03:56
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Honestly, I like 1493 even better. Mann really digs into how completely and utterly the Columbian Exchange reshaped the planet. The scope of it is mind-blowing.
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Jun 17, 2019 01:16
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Fighting Trousers posted:Honestly, I like 1493 even better. Mann really digs into how completely and utterly the Columbian Exchange reshaped the planet. The scope of it is mind-blowing. We can talk about the sequel here too if people want, folks are probably unfamiliar though.
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Jun 18, 2019 04:25
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Fighting Trousers posted:Honestly, I like 1493 even better. Mann really digs into how completely and utterly the Columbian Exchange reshaped the planet. The scope of it is mind-blowing. 1493 is one of the few books where I'd put it down after reading a particular passage and just marvel in how much the world changed as a result of one drunken Italian going off course. I haven't read either book in a few years but I recommend them to people so much that I should probably find some time to revisit both entries.
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Jun 21, 2019 04:21
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Yeah, I was hoping for more discussion but I'm assuming everyone is just sortof responding with stunned silence. My favorite section overall is probably the one about how the entire Amazon isn't a wild forest: it's a planted orchard. Also, this news story from a year or two ago made me think of this book: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-42916261 quote:
So science is confirming the "high counters."
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Jun 21, 2019 15:29
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also I need suggestions for next month
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Jun 21, 2019 15:30
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Book is good. Distinct lack of bear loving, but good. Tisquantum got fuckkkkkkkked.
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Jun 23, 2019 23:08
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:also I need suggestions for next month The Art of Fielding by Chad Harbach It's $3 on Kindle right now. quote:At Westish College, a small school on the shore of Lake Michigan, baseball star Henry Skrimshander seems destined for big league stardom. But when a routine throw goes disastrously off course, the fates of five people are upended. It's about a baseball prodigy who loses his ability to play, and is in danger of losing his scholarship at Westish College, a small school on the shore of Lake Michigan, who's team is named The Harpooners, in honour of Herman Melville. One of the plot-lines involves a man who's lived his entire life as heterosexual coming out for the first time. So, it's a book all about the artistry of baseball, but doesn't require baseball knowledge, making it fun and appropriate during baseball season. It's literary without being insular. It has LGBQT+ plotlines and themes around Pride month. It's all about exploring talent, creativity, masculinity, depression, and existential dread. It's well-written and gripping. All-around great book.
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Jun 24, 2019 20:49
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Yeah, I was hoping for more discussion but I'm assuming everyone is just sortof responding with stunned silence. Yah. Humans get everywhere and meddle with everything. Of loving course they did so in the Americas before Columbus, too.
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Jun 26, 2019 10:38
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Yeah, I was hoping for more discussion but I'm assuming everyone is just sortof responding with stunned silence. That sections blew my mind. I've always thought of the Amazon as untouched forest, not a post-apocalyptic wilderness. I also liked how pedantic Mann was about the definition of the Amazon.
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Jun 26, 2019 16:53
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Alhazred posted:That sections blew my mind. I've always thought of the Amazon as untouched forest, not a post-apocalyptic wilderness. I also liked how pedantic Mann was about the definition of the Amazon. Yep. I pretty much knew already about the scale of pre-contact societies in Mesoamerica and the Andes but the Amazon stuff was new to me.
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Jun 28, 2019 11:22
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finished the book yesterday. to be brief, the overall historical view it presents, that the americas were much more populous and "civilized" than i was ever taught, is interesting. but i was much more fascinated to learn about the specific aspects that were alien to me (the lack of wheels for labor, former rulers still retaining their wealth after death) or seemed incredible (the domestication of maize, the fertility of milpas). call it a personal flaw, but i found it difficult to recall the successions of leaders when there was this other stuff to consider. overall i enjoyed reading it and think i'd like to read more about south american cultures specifically.
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Jun 29, 2019 04:26
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Mann also does a good job of dismantling the myth that the spaniards didn't conquer the incas and aztecs because of superior tech but that a series of unfortunate events lead to their downfall.
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Jun 29, 2019 10:52
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Alhazred posted:That sections blew my mind. I've always thought of the Amazon as untouched forest, not a post-apocalyptic wilderness. I also liked how pedantic Mann was about the definition of the Amazon. Yeah, it's crazy and humbling and sad to realize that the experience of Native Americans post 1492 was basically a survival horror movie that lasted for generations.
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Jun 30, 2019 03:23
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Fighting Trousers posted:Yeah, it's crazy and humbling and sad to realize that the experience of Native Americans post 1492 was basically a survival horror movie that lasted for generations. That's very much it. If anyone is looking for a good book focused on the Native American experience in colonial Eastern North America, I highly recommend checking out Facing East From Indian Country.
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Jun 30, 2019 18:44
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Popping in to say that 1491 is also held in pretty good regard by every archaeologists I have talked to about it. Though that LiDAR article is often reviled.
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Jun 30, 2019 23:52
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PittTheElder posted:That's very much it. If anyone is looking for a good book focused on the Native American experience in colonial Eastern North America, I highly recommend checking out Facing East From Indian Country. The same guy's Before the Revolution is pretty aces too.
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Jul 1, 2019 20:31
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Also pretty interesting to see some detail about how some other areas weren't overwhelmed by European settlers until a great deal later; like New England where the combination of epidemics and other unfortunate sequences of events among the natives with the influx of settlers who had the numbers and organizational capability to exploit the situation happened over 100 years after the fall of the Mesoamerican and Andean native civilizations.
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Jul 2, 2019 14:02
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Yeah, the North American and Central American experiences are fundamentally different, and it's probably closer to 250 years of split between them. In Mexico especially, the Spanish managed to insert themselves at the top of an already established social order, which is why New Spain becomes successful so damned quickly. In Northeastern America a combination of local climate, and the disease based collapses having already happened before the colonists arrived, meant there was far less structure for Europeans to graft themselves onto (and far less wealth to rapidly extract by enslaving the indigenous population). They ultimately wind up constructing a new social order (admittedly one closely interlinked with the native inhabitants), which takes far longer to come together. It should be noted though that all over the Americas organized resistance to colonial authority persists at least into the 18th century (arguably until today really), particularly in tropical areas where Europeans tend to have rather short life expectancy and many African slaves were imported (far more Africans were important to Central and South America than ever reached the United States). European authority was super tenuous, loads of enslaved peoples fled into the hinterland, and you have mixed Indigenous-African communities openly operating in defiance to any central government. 1493 goes into this in detail; one takeaway is that using imported military POWs as slave labour is a great way to have well organized slave revolts.
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Jul 2, 2019 19:56
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PittTheElder posted:1493 goes into this in detail; one takeaway is that using imported military POWs as slave labour is a great way to have well organized slave revolts. Funny, that.
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Jul 3, 2019 08:12
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"The slaves are revolting again" "Quick, import more slaves!"
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Jul 4, 2019 06:21
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PittTheElder posted:"The slaves are revolting again" "Obviously we need more torture and murder to prevent another uprising!" *more torture and murder* *another revolt* "WHY ISN'T THIS WORKING"
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Jul 7, 2019 03:12
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I really enjoyed this; thanks for picking it and prodding me to finally read it. I was expecting a history book, not a book of historiography, and I'm not American so retelling the Thanksgiving story didn't have the impact it might have done for some readers, but it was so fascinating I read it in a weekend. In general the really fascinating story, to me, was how profound the mistakes of earlier researchers were. What Mann calls "Holmberg's Mistake" is an easy trap that really leads you astray, but it's great to be reminded of it so forcefully, when the implications are so vast. The discussion on how the tribes who met the English used and manipulated them for their own ends was really interesting, and I'm not surprised so many Europeans tried to join them... It sounds like a great setup for a game. The details of how the Inka absorbed the Chincha made an intriguing story, plus the mummified dead considered to be alive and still owning all their possessions... I didn't previously have much interest in the "Aztecs" but the poetry Mann quotes was lovely, and the vision of an entire quarter or world civilisation surviving only in scraps here and there was incredibly touching. The most intriguing part might just have been the story of the jungle gardens of the Amazon and terra preta changing the entire area people lived in. The discussion of when and how Indians arrived in the Americas was interesting, but I don't have much to say about it. Same with the disease; I think I must have picked up some of the book's ideas by osmosis (serves me right for taking years to read it), but I'm pretty sure Bernard DeVoto mentioned De Soto's pigs in the 50s. There's so much here and so fascinating. Anyone know a good recent history book about the Americas before Columbus?
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Aug 11, 2019 04:24
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i finally read this and its overall good but its avowedly apologetic stance really inhibits the quality of the scholarship and writing. like mann is clearly insanely uncomfortable with the fact of human sacrifice in the americas. he mentions it in passing, what, twice? and both times quickly goes on to excuse it by comparing it to public executions in europe. "the other guys did [something vaguely similar] too" is not a very useful heuristic, and the fact that he never treats the subject in depth because it might make us think badly of the aztecs prevents us from engaging with or learning at all about a practice that was central to the religions of entire cultures. e: it's also extremely patronizing to the reader, because if you thought we were smart grownups you'd give us the facts and trust that we could handle them like big boys, rather than completely eliding a subject because you're afraid it'll make us think bad thoughts. if you can't do that, then what you've produced is apologia - propaganda - not even pop-scholarship. chernobyl kinsman fucked around with this message at 07:03 on Nov 12, 2019 |
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Nov 12, 2019 06:51
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