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I'm been looking to make some changes, and a big employer nearby is hiring a few folks to train as commercial underwriters. People around here rave about the company, the posting makes it seem pretty interesting, and tuition reimbursement is a nice plus. I'm hoping there might be at least one person with this job around here who might be able to answer some questions. The required qualifications are essentially a pulse and a college degree. Is there a technical side to these positions that they might be glossing over? The posting lists a 3 month training period. Like actual, classroom-based learning. I've never seen something like that. Is it pretty normal? I'm also really interested in what a typical day looks like. Is this secretly a sales position?
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Oct 20, 2019 19:09
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Baronash posted:I'm been looking to make some changes, and a big employer nearby is hiring a few folks to train as commercial underwriters. People around here rave about the company, the posting makes it seem pretty interesting, and tuition reimbursement is a nice plus. I'm hoping there might be at least one person with this job around here who might be able to answer some questions. I've only worked in the claims side of insurance (6 weeks classroom based training when I first signed up with a degree and a pulse) but I suspect it depends hugely on the company whether you are purely an underwriter or a sales/ underwriting hybrid. The underwriters i sit near spend a lot of their time telling sales staff "sorry, no" or "not unless the prospective customer fulfills the following conditions" because it's very much risk based and the sales staff are able to say yes to the simple ones without consulting the underwriters. If you enjoy analyzing risks it would be worth a try.
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Oct 21, 2019 09:06
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I don't have much to say about Underwriting itself, but my SIL works in HR specifically hiring underwriters. It sounds shockingly similar to your situation... Are you based in Michigan? Regardless, she has been hoovering up everyone we know who was looking for work. It's about 50/50 for those who stay and those who leave within a couple months. I will say that her office's hiring targets are seriously outrageous, something like a hundred or more people as underwriters per month. They ran out of desks but still have to meet these insane targets. She says they first needed people with a Master's degree, and over time they have had to get people with just a HS diploma, just to meet numbers. She basically needs to hire 80% of the people she interviews. All of these people earn the same wage to start. The job as she describes it, which may be specific for her company, has a bunch of incentives for working late/pushing to meet new targets. There was an in-classroom training period. I think it's primarily because they just have so many people coming in they need to make sure everyone knows what they signed up for. I had friends who were an electrician and a secretary and now they both work as underwriters. It sounds to me like anyone can do it (no offense to any skilled underwriters here).
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Nov 19, 2019 04:28
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Baronash posted:I'm been looking to make some changes, and a big employer nearby is hiring a few folks to train as commercial underwriters. People around here rave about the company, the posting makes it seem pretty interesting, and tuition reimbursement is a nice plus. I'm hoping there might be at least one person with this job around here who might be able to answer some questions. Are you comfortable discussing what area this is in (admitted market commercial underwriting, personal lines, surplus lines commercial, etc.)? I work in E&S Commercial lines and it's amazing but there is a wide variance in "interesting" depending on that you're doing specifically. It's in archives, but I did an A/T thread about E&S underwriting a while back that may be of interest to you: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3852752
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Dec 8, 2019 17:23
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BONESAWWWWWW posted:I don't have much to say about Underwriting itself, but my SIL works in HR specifically hiring underwriters. It sounds shockingly similar to your situation... Are you based in Michigan? What are they underwriting? Home mortgages?
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Dec 9, 2019 05:08
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Yep.
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Dec 9, 2019 05:26
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13Pandora13 posted:Are you comfortable discussing what area this is in (admitted market commercial underwriting, personal lines, surplus lines commercial, etc.)? I work in E&S Commercial lines and it's amazing but there is a wide variance in "interesting" depending on that you're doing specifically. It's in archives, but I did an A/T thread about E&S underwriting a while back that may be of interest to you: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3852752 All their posting said was commercial lines, though their website makes it look like they deal with all of the specialties you brought up in your thread. Weirdly enough, I remember posting in that thread, but completely forgot that was the job that gave you all those great stories. Is standard market stuff as weird as that?
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Dec 9, 2019 21:59
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Baronash posted:All their posting said was commercial lines, though their website makes it look like they deal with all of the specialties you brought up in your thread. Weirdly enough, I remember posting in that thread, but completely forgot that was the job that gave you all those great stories. Is standard market stuff as weird as that? Standard market can have some  moments, especially in manufacturing and contracting risks, but usually the weirdest and worst stuff stays solidly E&S. Admitted market/standard lines have to have all their forms and rates approved by state insurance boards/commissions so that makes it difficult for them to look at bizarre stuff.
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Dec 10, 2019 19:17
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13Pandora13 posted:Admitted market/standard lines have to have all their forms and rates approved by state insurance boards/commissions so that makes it difficult for them to look at bizarre stuff. What does this mean to someone who doesn't have experience with the insurance industry? What is your state's insurance commission looking for? And can you explain how you end up putting together a quote for a policy? Say I'm a manufacturer and came to you looking to insure my office chair with a hoverboard base and an integrated nerf gun. What am I sending you, and how do you decide how risky my product is?
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Dec 10, 2019 20:25
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Baronash posted:What does this mean to someone who doesn't have experience with the insurance industry? What is your state's insurance commission looking for? For an admitted market carrier, someone in the company's compliance division will file all of the policy forms, rate tables, applications, underwriting rules, etc. for every class of business they wish to pursue. Each state has different requirements and limitations, it's up to the company's legal compliance team to adjust things as needed for each state filing. Filings can stand for years, if not decades (for example, most standard market product recall policy forms and rates date back to the 1990s) so it's not something the company necessarily needs to do annually unless there's annual state adjustments. Workers Compensation tends to be updated pretty regularly in many states. A company can file to be admitted in one state, a few states, or all states - it's really up to the company how much effort they want to put into state filings and if the work/effort and limitations of the state are "worth it." Like, no carriers are really looking to enter the California homeowner's market right now because it's a loving disaster and the state commissioner issued a moratorium on non-renewing homeowner's policies in wildfire areas (meaning the company cannot non-renew) right after the CA court ruled policies cannot sublimit wildfire related damages. Carriers writing CA homeowners are getting absolutely buttfucked right now and they've got very little power because of how strict the state commission is. As an UW this wouldn't really be your problem, part of your training will be on how to rate/use your company's rate tables for the states in which you write. It's the legal team's problem. As far as the actual process of underwriting, in standard market you'll have a LOT of written guidelines that will guide you through rate penalties and whether something would qualify or be a declination. Once something "fits" in your company's guidelines and filings, understanding what's good will come from experience. You'll have help early on especially, the company wants you to succeed (because if you blow the UW and issue an underpriced policy, they're on the hook for whatever limits you put up). When you start out it's most likely you'll have no, or a very limited "letter of underwriting authority." The letter will detail things like the policy limits, claim/loss experience maximums, etc. for each account that you can quote without getting a supervisor sign-off. Generally, underwriters don't get fired for having claims, they get fired for 1. sloppy underwriting or 2. exceeding their letter of authority. If your company is publicly traded, exceeding your authority letter is likely a Sarbanes-Oxley control violation and will get you shitcanned basically immediately. It's probably the most important thing to remember (it's not something you "learn" per se, it's literally just "am I allowed to do this y/n?" and it will be explicitly written out/not ambiguous). 13Pandora13 fucked around with this message at 02:47 on Dec 16, 2019 |
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Dec 16, 2019 02:43
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I'm curious about this. When I took out the mortgage on our house, the underwriter's job description seemed to be "request documents, confirm their receipt, then slow the process and never respond to phone calls." Is all an underwriter actually doing just permutations of checking people's forms and doing math based on the answers?
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Dec 18, 2019 15:54
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MJP posted:I'm curious about this. When I took out the mortgage on our house, the underwriter's job description seemed to be "request documents, confirm their receipt, then slow the process and never respond to phone calls." My knowledge may be a little dated, but most mortgage underwriting is pretty formulaic. The vast majority of mortgages (these days) will be underwritten pursuant to very explicit guidelines that require the collection of certain documents and the crunching of numbers. Cross all the Ts and dot all the Is and you are good if you meet the criteria. Very little, to no, subjectivity in the decision making. If you go back to the subprime crisis, it was way more wild west. Not only were there a bunch of poorly managed rogue actors, but the guidelines for Alt-A and subprime loans were WAY looser and totally open to subjective determinations. By 2006/07 they were really scraping the bottom of the barrel, so loans were being originated with basically no documentation and little oversight. You could get a loan with a "stated income" (i.e., just tell us what you make and we won't really check) and sometimes even with essentially no documentation. Ostensibly, the underwriter's job was to make a subjective determination that these types of loans with reduced documentation were "prudently" granted and the borrower had the ability and willingness to repay the loan, but the incentives got all out of whack and underwriters were more concerned about closing loans than managing risk since the risk was immediately sold onto someone else through the securitization pipeline. There was understandable a huge backlash and for a period of time it was very hard/impossible to get a "subprime" loan. Things have certainly been loosening up recently, which isn't necessarily the worst thing if the the risks/incentives are correctly balanced. Before they got abused, some of those low/no documentation loans were great decisions. There are certain circumstances were they make total sense (self-employed). I hope people learned a lesson and we don't go back to the bad old days. At this point there is still limited interest at the end of the securitization pipeline for crazy/risky loans, but who knows.
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Dec 20, 2019 03:26
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MJP posted:I'm curious about this. When I took out the mortgage on our house, the underwriter's job description seemed to be "request documents, confirm their receipt, then slow the process and never respond to phone calls." Speaking from underwriting QA, a lot of this seems to be the loan officer failing to read or understand the underwriter's notes, some of it is lazy underwriting, and some of it is that companies are wanting underwriting to do more with less and things get backed up, especially for refi transactions. Every time they ask for a doc that should have been in the file when the LO submitted it it, it goes back to the bottom of the file. A good LO will know what is going to be required upfront, gather all the documents, and submit once unless there is an oddball scenario that doesn't fit the box. Another thing that happens is that while the UW is playing ping pong with the LO in the notes, and getting the same wrong docs submitted repeatedly, other documents in the file might age out and need to be replaced with a fresh statement or paystub, etc. That is kind of lovely and a lot of companies just don't think enough about the customer experience.
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Dec 22, 2019 17:46
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MayakovskyMarmite posted:Before they got abused, some of those low/no documentation loans were great decisions. There are certain circumstances were they make total sense (self-employed). I hope people learned a lesson and we don't go back to the bad old days. At this point there is still limited interest at the end of the securitization pipeline for crazy/risky loans, but who knows. Jesus yes. I looked at a deal one time where there were 30 rental properties that were personally owned along with 2 corporations and about 10 s corp/partnerships on the schedule E. And the borrower had fantastic credit. I was really missing stated income at that moment.
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Dec 22, 2019 17:54
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Does a typical underwriter do much data analysis? Or do they just follow some prescribed set of policies and number ranges to reach a decision?
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Dec 22, 2019 18:13
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Vegetable posted:Does a typical underwriter do much data analysis? Or do they just follow some prescribed set of policies and number ranges to reach a decision? If insurance underwriting is anything at all like credit underwriting, then no. You write according to policy, and make exceptions where appropriate if you think the deal is strong enough to put it into your own portfolio. For credit you have a general sense of what the likelihood of default is based on information from the credit report and the income if you verified it. That data analysis happens with the credit risk administration folks who decide how much risk they are willing to stomach and write the policy accordingly. At my bank there is an unsecured credit product that has a policy guideline of a max 60% debt to income ratio. Any time we have an early payment default (if the borrower defaults in the first year) on one of these loans, the credit risk people make a big deal out of how it was high debt to income and why didn't we verify income, etc. They never want to hear that it was written according to policy so they should change policy or shut up. I hate this product and I think it is stupid to lend unsecured at high DTI with no verification, but gently caress trying to hang the underwriters out to dry over your own stupid rear end policy.
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Dec 23, 2019 06:03
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Got a little excited when I saw this thread, but I'm on the Life/Health side working for a reinsurer, so I doubt my experience is really relevant here, but I can go into it more if anyone's interested. For what it's worth, I also started having no insurance/medical background and did a training program, I know on the P&C side of our company they do the same thing for recent graduates, but I have zero idea how they do things.
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Dec 29, 2019 13:04
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A lot of what goes on in underwriting is the sort of thing that AI is good at, so I would expect big changes over the course of the next decade. It won't be a bad way to get a job in the near future and might be worth some resume points, but I don't know if underwriting is something that you should be planning a career in.
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Jan 5, 2020 20:04
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Eskaton fucked around with this message at 20:25 on Jan 5, 2020 |
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Jan 5, 2020 20:20
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