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Interesting piece about alternate directions the series could have gone and how things that feel like they were “always” part of Star Wars were actually later additions or outright retcons here: http://jbr.me.uk/canon.html It’s interesting to imagine a Star Wars where the Emperor was just a puppet of a clique of military men like Tarkin, Vader was an alien and Jabba was human, and Obi-Wan was one of the clones the Clone Wars were named for. I also saw a forum thread in a similar vein on RPGnet a few years ago. One of the interesting suggestions from that thread was that the Clone Wars involved clones of an Emperor claiming to be the real one, like the False Dimitris.
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Jan 22, 2020 18:21
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I found the RPGnet thread I was probably thinking of: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/necro-star-wars-using-ep-iv-as-the-only-canon-and-starting-point.536122/
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Jan 29, 2020 04:39
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Interesting read, thanks for the link
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Jan 31, 2020 18:54
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One thing I found interesting that Justin B Rye didn’t explicitly point out is how many retcons were already present even in the Brackett draft of ESB. Brackett’s Leia claims that Han’s stepfather is the third most powerful person in the galaxy, with the Emperor and Vader being the most powerful and second most powerful, respectively. But as Rye notes, Vader seemed to be out of the loop regarding the decision to abolish the Senate, and in Allen Dean Foster’s novelization, the Emperor himself was a puppet. It’s easy to see why this was retconned, though; the alternative was that Tarkin was the de facto highest ranking antagonist even mentioned in the first movie, which would make the continued conflict after his death a bit anticlimactic.
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Jan 31, 2020 20:13
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It's interesting to note that despite being able to make sentient robots, the computers in Star Wars don't have the capacity to aim a shot onto a target six feet around.
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Feb 1, 2020 23:44
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The timeline as of Star Wars is a bit muddy. The establishment of the empire is uncertain, but the senate still exists to some degree and wields some power as of the start of the movie, but their power is weak enough that the rebels pose a threat to their starfleet. The clone wars happened sometime in the past, but not so long ago that Luke's father (of unknown age) was able to fight in them. And the extermination of the Jedi couldn't have been more than 20 years ago, since Luke still had to be born, which puts it within living memory of most people. What's not given though, is how prevalent the Jedi were at that time. It's possible that Obi Wan and a handful of others were practicing the Old Ways and that the heyday of the Jedi had long passed by that point.
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Feb 1, 2020 23:53
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Silver2195 posted:One thing I found interesting that Justin B Rye didn’t explicitly point out is how many retcons were already present even in the Brackett draft of ESB. Brackett’s Leia claims that Han’s stepfather is the third most powerful person in the galaxy, with the Emperor and Vader being the most powerful and second most powerful, respectively. But as Rye notes, Vader seemed to be out of the loop regarding the decision to abolish the Senate, and in Allen Dean Foster’s novelization, the Emperor himself was a puppet. It’s easy to see why this was retconned, though; the alternative was that Tarkin was the de facto highest ranking antagonist even mentioned in the first movie, which would make the continued conflict after his death a bit anticlimactic. That's such a weird version of ESB. Han and Leia spend the whole movie trying to meet his stepdad, never do and at the end Han is just like "welp time to leave Leia behind and go meet my stepdad" It also implies Lando is the product of a dude who made a bunch of clones of himself and his sister
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Feb 2, 2020 01:32
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My head cannon before the prequels was that the clone wars had been massive galactic spanning wars with clone armies. Which led to cloning being illegal and the rise of things like droids instead. It’s quite funny that everyone forgot about the Jedi between the prequels and the original trilogy, and then again between that and the sequels. They’re drat forgettable space wizards, just don’t make an impression.
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Feb 2, 2020 04:18
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The sequels I don’t mind so much, there were only like 4 people with Force powers in the OT and even then most of the important plot stuff was done conventionally, as far as anyone other than the main characters know the destruction of the Death Stars were both done by starfighters and the Emperor died because he was on the second one when it blew up. The prequels are a lot sillier since it’s the Jedi were like officially attached to the Republic Army and Palpatine addressed the Senate and the public about Order 66 so they weren’t exactly a secret lol. I guess you can kinda half-rear end justify that people just figured the Jedi were a little sect of religious weirdos that advised the Republic and all the Force stuff was exaggerations about their combat skills but it doesn’t really make sense no matter what.
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Feb 2, 2020 05:16
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In Phantom Menace its made fairly clear the Jedi are weird cultists who gave sway in the government but whatever powers they claim are probably made up bullshit. Its why Newt Gunray is so immediately surprised and terrified by Qui-gon and Obi-wan after he tries to kill them, why Watto unknowingly makes fun of Qui-gon, and what Qui-gons cover story is he gives to Anakin and how Anakin refers to a lightsaber as a laser sword. Further, the Jedi that fight in the films are all attached to Clone Trooper divisions not regular forces. If anything it seems like the average person is aware of the Jedi, thinks of them as mostly charlatans and religious weirdos, and ascribes their powers to something other than their devotion to their religious cult beliefs.
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Feb 2, 2020 05:44
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When a fascist government has successfully exterminated a group of people it can tell the common people whatever it wants really.
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Feb 2, 2020 08:27
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There's trillions of people in the galaxy and only a few thousand Jedi at most. If you lived on a planet that didn't get invaded by either clones or robots then you probably never saw a Jedi in your life, and before the Clone Wars they seemed to hang out in their temple most of the time. The Jedi were stories to most people even when they were alive
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Feb 2, 2020 14:07
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2house2fly posted:There's trillions of people in the galaxy and only a few thousand Jedi at most. If you lived on a planet that didn't get invaded by either clones or robots then you probably never saw a Jedi in your life, and before the Clone Wars they seemed to hang out in their temple most of the time. The Jedi were stories to most people even when they were alive On the other hand - there is 7 billion people on this planet alone and Beyonce is only one person. Yet I (and everyone else in my country and most others) knows who she is and roughly what she does
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Feb 2, 2020 14:26
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2house2fly posted:There's trillions of people in the galaxy and only a few thousand Jedi at most. If you lived on a planet that didn't get invaded by either clones or robots then you probably never saw a Jedi in your life, and before the Clone Wars they seemed to hang out in their temple most of the time. The Jedi were stories to most people even when they were alive Yeah but they probably got a space cnn and these dudes levitate stuff with their minds that'd probably be pretty well documented.
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Feb 2, 2020 14:29
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ThisIsJohnWayne posted:On the other hand - there is 7 billion people on this planet alone and Beyonce is only one person. Yet I (and everyone else in my country and most others) knows who she is and roughly what she does Most people don't know the name of their own country's generals, much less more esoteric branch specific leadership. reignofevil posted:Yeah but they probably got a space cnn and these dudes levitate stuff with their minds that'd probably be pretty well documented. I don't think the Jedi having certain powers is ever in doubt, especially given how characters talk about them in the prequels, but given they seem to mostly do black ops work and the way people respond to seeing it in person I feel like most people dont really grasp the full extent of their capabilities. Its the difference between the theoretical "they have some sort of stealth helicopter" and the practical "are those dudes I didnt hear coming rappeling into my compound???" More pressingly, what people seem to more actively reject isnt the lift rocks so much as the religious doctrine part and the mind control tricks. For people in the universe it seems more like well I can see you lift rocks but Im not buying into the whole in tune with a mystical spiritual gestalt of the cosmos, especially when being a hanger on to the jedi conveys no actual force powers and the Jedi themselves have to hunt down their candidates. Barudak fucked around with this message at 15:58 on Feb 2, 2020 |
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Feb 2, 2020 15:56
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ThisIsJohnWayne posted:On the other hand - there is 7 billion people on this planet alone and Beyonce is only one person. Yet I (and everyone else in my country and most others) knows who she is and roughly what she does Counterpoint - space Beyonce is probably taking up just as much headspace as earth's is. How much do you know about any random order of, say, catholic monks with maybe a hundred members that has a history going back 1500 years?
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Feb 2, 2020 19:23
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Who were the top generals in the first gulf war?
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Feb 2, 2020 20:44
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2house2fly posted:Who were the top generals in the first gulf war? Schwarzkopf and Horner. Powell was Chairman of the joints chief of staff durring that time frame even if he wasn't in theater.
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Feb 2, 2020 22:59
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ThisIsJohnWayne posted:On the other hand - there is 7 billion people on this planet alone and Beyonce is only one person. Yet I (and everyone else in my country and most others) knows who she is and roughly what she does I assume she has a whole team of publicity people trying to make sure that happens. I'm only vaguely aware of her though. And I'm sure she'll eventually sink into the uncaring depths like every other celebrity does. The Jedi were very important a couple decades ago, but at the beginning of A New Hope they're no longer really relevant, and if you do go talking about them, you'll get a lot of attention from the people who wanted to wipe them all out in the first place. A farm boy who doesn't go to school has never heard of them, but a more worldly smuggler is vaguely aware of them and doesn't buy into the supernatural nonsense.
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Feb 2, 2020 23:02
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SlothfulCobra posted:A farm boy who doesn't go to school has never heard of them When told his father was a jedi knight like Obi-Wan is, he doesn't ask what a Jedi is. An unschooled farmboy from a shithole planet knows who Jedi were.
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Feb 3, 2020 01:41
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CainFortea posted:When told his father was a jedi knight like Obi-Wan is, he doesn't ask what a Jedi is. An unschooled farmboy from a shithole planet knows who Jedi were. obi-wan is literally in the middle of expositing what the jedi were when he says that lmao
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Feb 3, 2020 02:18
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Complications posted:Counterpoint - space Beyonce is probably taking up just as much headspace as earth's is. How much do you know about any random order of, say, catholic monks with maybe a hundred members that has a history going back 1500 years? If those monks had telekinesis and laser swords I'd know all of them.
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Feb 3, 2020 03:05
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There are thousands of people who claim to have telekinesis right now
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Feb 3, 2020 03:17
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How many of them are lifting xwings?
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Feb 3, 2020 03:30
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X wings have not existed for many, many years.
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Feb 3, 2020 06:43
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One of my favorite parts of this article is how the pretentious nerd speech has not changed in 40 years.quote:AULDURAN
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Feb 3, 2020 07:28
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ungulateman posted:obi-wan is literally in the middle of expositing what the jedi were when he says that lmao Nope. Unless by "in the middle" you mean "about to start" then sure.
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Feb 3, 2020 09:36
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The dialog is Obi-wan going "Your father wasnt a freighter pilot, he was a Jedi Knight" and then luke getting wistful over not knowing his father, followed by not knowing what the hell a lightsaber is and having it and the order explained to him by Obi-wan. Luke, at his most informed, is merely aware of the word Jedi and arguably isnt even focusing on that bit of information at all since his follow up response is "I wish I knew my dad". It also doesnt make any sense for Obi-wan to give him an explanation if Luke affirmed he knew what those words meant. Heck, if you take the films collectively its foreshadowing that at the end Luke will reject being a good Jedi to instead have an understanding with his father. Barudak fucked around with this message at 10:11 on Feb 3, 2020 |
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Feb 3, 2020 10:09
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The idea of Jedi as the equivalent of Reagan's court astrologer is really funny.Silver2195 posted:Interesting piece about alternate directions the series could have gone and how things that feel like they were “always” part of Star Wars were actually later additions or outright retcons here: pro click
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Feb 3, 2020 22:29
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Tulip posted:The idea of Jedi as the equivalent of Reagan's court astrologer is really funny. Justin B Rye has a lot of interesting (if opinionated) articles about SF, linguistics, and related topics. Perhaps most relevant to this subforum is a ten-part essay on why Star Trek is bad.
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Feb 3, 2020 22:38
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