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I guess the rebels in Return Of The Jedi just didn't have any torpedoes. Probably figured they wouldn't need them, since all they were there to do was blow up the reactor and you can just do that by committing suicide
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Jan 25, 2020 19:13
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 the executor had a secondary command bridge which would have allowed them to regain control of the ship but it was too close to the gravitational field of the death star and was pulled in and destroyed before the crew could bring it online, the suicide attack would have been pointless in deep space
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Jan 25, 2020 19:14
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radical jedi sect encouraging space martyrdom... smh
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Jan 25, 2020 19:15
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Tiler Kiwi posted:radical jedi sect encouraging space martyrdom... smh  many sides, many sides
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Jan 25, 2020 19:16
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im glad space centrists don't get force powers
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Jan 25, 2020 19:17
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Chillgamesh posted:
Then just have someone else commit suicide to take out the second bridge. There's a ton of rebel fighter ships
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Jan 25, 2020 19:36
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Tiler Kiwi posted:this is reminding me of how in pirates of the caribbean they did a hail mary quick turn by dropping one anchor, and its treated as a desperate innovative act. but then the bad pirate chasing them just yells out "theyre club hauling!!" and nobody in the audience will know what that means, but he's just identifying what the maneuver was, in real life, which is cool because it signifies the dude is an experienced sea captain and also shows the writers did their homework on nautical maneuvers imagine how much it would suck if you were just a shark or whale or crab minding your own business and then some rear end in a top hat ship dropped an anchor on your head
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Jan 25, 2020 19:39
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2house2fly posted:Then just have someone else commit suicide to take out the second bridge. There's a ton of rebel fighter ships who let the imperial Japanese holdout online
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Jan 25, 2020 19:44
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i maintain that the holdo manuever worked because the first order was using hyperspace tracking so the ships were linked in some technobabble way. this conveniently explains why no one does hyperspace tracking and also why the manuever needed a specific setup to work. whango bango problems solved give me a prize.
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Jan 25, 2020 21:58
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oh poo poo, that actually solves the problem
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Jan 25, 2020 22:47
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they could have easily solved the problem in narrative with technobabble like that, or by having the espionage crew disable the shields, or literally anything to set it up. Not sure if Rian Johnson didn't give a poo poo or if he thinks foreshadowing is a dumb move by idiots to spoil their surprises.
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Jan 25, 2020 22:57
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:they could have easily solved the problem in narrative with technobabble like that, or by having the espionage crew disable the shields, or literally anything to set it up. Not sure if Rian Johnson didn't give a poo poo or if thinks foreshadowing is a dumb move by idiots to spoil their surprises. It's not even a Rian Johnson thing, I think it's a modern movie thing. JJ Abrams is just as terrible about it, for example.
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Jan 25, 2020 22:58
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:they could have easily solved the problem in narrative with technobabble like that, or by having the espionage crew disable the shields, or literally anything to set it up. Not sure if Rian Johnson didn't give a poo poo or if he thinks foreshadowing is a dumb move by idiots to spoil their surprises. Yeah but the idea of subverting your expectations by making Holdo right all along requires Poe's plan not to actually help, so Finn can’t contribute with his specific knowledge of first order systems and the sabotage plan can't make a difference
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Jan 25, 2020 23:00
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They probably figured they didn't need any extra exposition to "set up" the idea of a ship ramming another ship
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Jan 25, 2020 23:05
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2house2fly posted:They probably figured they didn't need any extra exposition to "set up" the idea of a ship ramming another ship I'd really like to hear what happened in their planning meetings. Seems weird that no one would have brought this issue up.
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Jan 25, 2020 23:07
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2house2fly posted:They probably figured they didn't need any extra exposition to "set up" the idea of a ship ramming another ship They could've had the Raddus suddenly unveil its gently caress-off huge kill cannon to blow up the Snoke Destroyer. The audience would understand that just fine. It would still be loving stupid. Aside from breaking the universe, the problem with the lack of set up is that the characters don't earn it. At all. It's just a thing that happens that...I don't know.. saves Finn.
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Jan 25, 2020 23:18
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What does "earn it" mean?
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Jan 25, 2020 23:22
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It means the characters overcome obstacles to achieve their goals, also known as conflict. IE If Finn & Rose had enabled the ramming attack via their actions, then they as characters would have earned the result story wise. Or if Holdo was a character we knew anything about or cared about or anything at all really maybe she could go through some character growth and accept this as the price of victory (for an example of pretty much this exact scenario see Rogue One).
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Jan 25, 2020 23:28
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it was one of the few good parts of TLJ imo.
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Jan 26, 2020 01:38
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Great OP in this thread, love the breakdown. For the haters; the fact that attacks like this aren't standard combat doctrine is just as much a facet of the worldbuilding as the holdo maneuver shown on screen is. Keep that in mind.
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Jan 26, 2020 03:03
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2house2fly posted:What does "earn it" mean? Lol this guy noticed the theme
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Jan 26, 2020 03:42
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NmareBfly posted:i maintain that the holdo manuever worked because the first order was using hyperspace tracking so the ships were linked in some technobabble way. this conveniently explains why no one does hyperspace tracking and also why the manuever needed a specific setup to work. whango bango problems solved give me a prize. i don't think disney gives out no-prizes, sadly.
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Jan 26, 2020 05:17
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jivjov posted:For the haters; the fact that attacks like this aren't standard combat doctrine is just as much a facet of the worldbuilding as the holdo maneuver shown on screen is. Keep that in mind. They could've just said it was a war crime. something even the empire wouldn't do
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Jan 26, 2020 05:36
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Gulping Again posted:i don't think disney gives out no-prizes, sadly. those are in the vault
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Jan 26, 2020 06:27
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to continue my previous thought on sort of looking-at-things-youre-meant-to-ignore, thing, i remember playing amnesia dark descent and getting really irritated with it on several spots for what I think are similar reasons. So there's such a thing as "video game logic", where you learn, as a person playing games, that you can't actually literally do everything because the game just doesn't support it. It doesn't matter how flimsy a random door is, you can't break it down. Waist high fences are insurmountable, you can't pick up that dead guy's gun, and so on. It's unrealistic and arbitrary but as you learn the language you sort of gain an understanding between yourself and the creator of the game that there's just certain rules and ways to signal intent that you respect so you don't get confused and embittered. Except Amnesia was made by assholes. So for instance you still can't interact meaningfully with physics poo poo, except, sometimes you can. There's half assed boarded up windows everywhere and you can't break them except, randomly, one boarded up thing you can break with a chair, and just that. You can't break lock and chains or flimsy pipes, except, in one spot, you can shatter a metal chain holding up a bridge with a limp wristed rock throw. The same mighty toss that will bounce completely harmlessly off the various things attempting to kill you. You can, but really shouldn't, bypass a bunch of poo poo in the game by just stacking boxes or junk around the level to get past points because it breaks the game logic in a lot of games, except in the DLC you have to stack crates to get up a hatch, crates you have to pull from out of the local enviroment so the entire time youre going "im not missing something, am i? no lever, no corkscrew gadget no.. okay but I do need this tiny ladder to attach to it or i can't climb it, okay". These are really annoying puzzles since they're not hard to solve because of some interesting solution, they're just like, solving a puzzle by going "actually you solve it by looking up the answer in the answer index!!!" and they break that sort of aforementioned sense of trust that you can go ahead and not like, literally try to treat the game and its puzzles like its reality, because its absolutely not reality and if you try to judge it by that standard it looks like a total piece of poo poo So in star wars you have hyperspace speed and poo poo. Its magic. It lets things happen in the movies because space is full of, space, and its hard to get places. Ships also fly slowly normally, and even will stop in space if you shoot out their engines. Its nonsensical; why aren't they just zipping around at half lightspeed or some poo poo instead, what is the energy requirements here that are both a problem but also so solvable that you have your expendable fighter ships equipped with light speed engines as well. Does going in hyperspace cause the same relativity mass/time fuckery that'd happen in real life or is it some other thing, going on. Why don't they just shoot hyperspeed slugs at poo poo all the time? Fortunately you dont have to care because you understand all there needs to be is consistency and an understanding that its just the way it is, really. You just assume theres Something that prevents that working and you move on because it lets you have starship dogfights with lasers and other fun stuff instead of having battles be small automated balls shooting light speed rocks at each other from lightyears away. But then it becomes kind of a big plot point and now all those questions are things that you kind of gravitate towards thinking about since that sort of agreed-upon-nonsense had a leg kicked out from under it. Yes ramming poo poo at light speed makes total perfect sense but star wars is absolutely not a setting you want to try to treat realistically about or you get like, why don't laser weapons shoot three lasers in a triangular formation so a jedi can't block it, why don't they paint their ships black so people cant see them from looking out a star ship window which is I guess a thing they do, does it actually make sense for the fate of the galaxy with a population of i dont know how many to rest upon a rebellion consisting of a grandma and her cadre of plucky street urchin, like please, please, no, its a dark terrible road, its complete nonsense, it doesn't have to be like this. It becomes like how my game of Amnesia went, roaming down darkened corridors rubbing chairs on everything going "Well why didn't THAT break, why is there an invisible wall THERE" Tiler Kiwi fucked around with this message at 06:47 on Jan 26, 2020 |
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Jan 26, 2020 06:39
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Tiler Kiwi posted:you can do that in the dos games but using torpedoes is generally more effective So what you're saying is it's kind of a hold-over.
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Jan 26, 2020 06:53
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48 Hour Boner posted:So what you're saying is it's kind of a hold-over. maybe it was just meant as a placeholdor
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Jan 26, 2020 06:54
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2house2fly posted:I guess the rebels in Return Of The Jedi just didn't have any torpedoes. Probably figured they wouldn't need them, since all they were there to do was blow up the reactor and you can just do that by committing suicide he was already going to crash so he figured hey might as well make something of this what are we arguing about anyway
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Jan 26, 2020 06:57
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The problem is that the Battlestar Galactica reboot did this exact scenario way loving better and they had a Sci-Fi TV channel budget to work with https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9gt2_SvYPw "Thank you Lee" "I'll see you on the other side...." Goddamn holy gently caress. I know I'm incredibly privileged to experience this, but whipping rear end in a Viper Mk 2 frakking toasters is an experience far greater than any single sexual cinematic drama you could possibly conceive of.
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Jan 26, 2020 23:48
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Taintrunner posted:The problem is that the Battlestar Galactica reboot did this exact scenario way loving better and they had a Sci-Fi TV channel budget to work with we need a bsg thread 
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Jan 27, 2020 00:26
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Squizzle posted:we need a bsg thread Be the change you want to see in the world.
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Jan 27, 2020 03:19
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