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The Fattest PI posted:<India Story> My uncle is upper-middle management for a Canadian aerospace firm, and they have (for about a decade now) a PPT that's basically, "Don't outsource to India. . . here is why". Every once and a while a new upper-level manager will either forget about this, or someone new will arrive in the division and have the same bright idea, "This place in India is offering the same thing we're doing at an amazingly low price, If I outsource this project to them, it will save the company millions, and I will get a big pat on the back, maybe a raise, and a promotion as well!" Then the middle-managers have to call a meeting, and put this up on the screen. The PPT is basically: "In the many, many, many instances that we've outsourced to India, the following chain of events has occurred." 1. They ask absolutely no follow-up questions about the part/cct/code we need them to make. (this is a bad sign) 2. Check ins are late/missed/have no documentation, and when pressed for more, it's usually only "everything is great and on time. . . you want proof? Next week" (this is a bad sign) 3. The first due-date is missed, and the product doesn't show. (this is a bad sign) 4. The company says that they have sent the item/mailed the code (for some reason not email) and that it must be running late, "sorry we can't find the tracking number" (this is a bad sign) 5. The client is worried that there has been no proof that their item/code is coming. (this is a bad sign) 6. The item/code shows up, it's horribly out of spec, and there is absolutely no documentation to go with it. (this is a bad sign) 7. The company in India keeps saying that the part/code is good, maybe they will say they will put together another attempt (this is a bad sign) 8. The company decides that they have to eat the cost, make it themselves, and hope the client can wait a little longer. 9. While they are frantically doing what they should have done in the first place, the client is getting a lot of random companies in India emailing them with offers for what they want at a massively discounted price. (this is a bad sign). The PPT ends with 5 minutes of graphs showing how they have on average a 1 in 20 chance of actually saving money by outsourcing to India, and a 19/20 chance of actually making more money, a better product, and getting it to the client on time if they do it all in house. . . and occasionally management will still opt to outsource, and the revised PPT gets a little bit longer.
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Apr 28, 2020 17:22
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Blistex posted:India Outsourcing Yeah this. I've worked for many companies that have outsourced to India for various things, nothing as critical as aerospace but still important stuff like pressure vessels and valves and such. They have a nice professional front but if you've seen them working on stuff you'd be appalled. Extremely dangerous conditions mixed with the assembly guys sitting on the floor with the parts between their legs banging away with garbage tools. It's amazing that they get anything done at all. A friend of mine went for a surprise visit to India to see where his valves were being made and he brought back videos from a couple of 'factories' that poo poo was being made at. I'm not sure if that's indicative of a typical manufacturing scenario there but judging by the other stuff we've received, I'd have to hazard that it is.
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Apr 28, 2020 18:02
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Where is band that's got the taste, where is supply that will last three days
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Apr 28, 2020 18:04
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Blistex posted:. . . and occasionally management will still opt to outsource, and the revised PPT gets a little bit longer. "$20 and all I have to do is turn over the red card and I double my money? All those other people were suckers, but I'm gonna find it for sure!" I genuinely cannot comprehend the level of hubris someone would need to receive all of this information based on a large body of information compiled, indexed, and presented to caution them against the exact thing they're about to do, look at it all, and say, "But this time it won't be like that!"
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Apr 28, 2020 18:05
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India's got a lot of people who are educated to speak the same language of bullshit as Western PR departments while being able to offer third world wages for production. I'm sure there's plenty of Indian factories who can make good poo poo and I'm equally sure they are booked out years in advance.Time_pants posted:"$20 and all I have to do is turn over the red card and I double my money? All those other people were suckers, but I'm gonna find it for sure!" Because it doesn't matter if they're being lied to, they still get paid.
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Apr 28, 2020 18:08
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20 Blunts posted:has anybody seen how chinese factory workers do like, group dances and goofy teambuilding stuff. i wonder how much more productive it makes them While I was working for Hbitat for Humanity I would occasionally have to go pick up ~100 buckets of paint from this massive Sherwin Williams warehouse. While hanging out on the loading dock waiting for our paint they would sometimes do something like that. I don't know if it was a shift chnge or what but it looked kinda fun to me nd all the guys doing it seemed to like it. They would walk away from it laughing and smiling, ready to work. Of course this is all anecdotal but I swear I saw a study that showed this increased productivity and comraderie. Instituting this at some businesses woudln't fix underlying issues and would probably make things worse, if you're pay is poo poo this won't fix it and will breed resentment, but I do think something like this can help at some businesses.
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Apr 28, 2020 18:14
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Time_pants posted:"$20 and all I have to do is turn over the red card and I double my money? All those other people were suckers, but I'm gonna find it for sure!" Because the corporate environment doesn't punish their own for failure, they take it out on the lower ranks. Some executive manages to do something stupid that costs them an amount that coincidentally is the exact amount of his salary? Fire him because he is an idiot that costs the company money? No! Lay off a few people on the factory floor to recoup that loss.
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Apr 28, 2020 18:14
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Also because management schools don’t teach proper risk management only accounting principles so warnings from experienced people are often met with the phrase “this time will be different.”
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Apr 28, 2020 18:47
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Sex Skeleton posted:Also because management schools don’t teach proper risk management only creative accounting principles so warnings from experienced people are often met with the phrase “this time will be different.” "If we gently caress up, we'll just spin it"
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Apr 28, 2020 18:52
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20 Blunts posted:has anybody seen how chinese factory workers do like, group dances and goofy teambuilding stuff. i wonder how much more productive it makes them we stretch together in the morning where I work, which is really nice
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Apr 28, 2020 19:05
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- hi
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Burt Sexual posted:Mr son is doing industrial automation which is a blend of it and factory floor poo poo. At a juco. I encouraged it v much. My AAS was in industrial automation. Very good choice. You still get treated like a human in those kinds of jobs.
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Apr 28, 2020 19:07
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Sex Skeleton posted:Also because management schools don’t teach proper risk management only accounting principles so warnings from experienced people are often met with the phrase “this time will be different.” i managed college bookstores for years and the last place i was at had an executive MBA program and they were the most entitled, stupid motherfuckers i ever had to deal with in that career
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Apr 28, 2020 19:13
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limp_cheese posted:Of course this is all anecdotal but I swear I saw a study that showed this increased productivity and comraderie. it's dictatorship style brainwashing actually gently caress "team building" warmup routines you know why they were laughing and smiling? cuz if they don't some scab is gonna snitch on them for saying mean things about the team building and get their minimum wage asses fired Fur20 fucked around with this message at 21:25 on Apr 28, 2020 |
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Apr 28, 2020 20:35
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When the 30% of the india work was getting completely refabricated the client had to pay for it per the contract, but they sure as hell didn't move the deadlines. It was just so demoralizing to see all this lovely work, that's been taken away from you, and you can blatantly see it's wrong but you have to jam it into a huge busy structure knowing you'll have to drag it out again and redo it. Then you get in poo poo because you spent the entire day going backwards progresswise because the client is getting real ornery about the schedule. I'd fight it every time saying "no this is your fault not ours" and eventually they'd sort of relent but it was soul draining because that was almost a daily conversation. Just build it here you fucks you're making billions and billions of dollars a year**. It might cost 50% more to build it properly but you can be pretty sure it won't blow up and most that money is going back into the local economy. **before oil was free lol
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Apr 28, 2020 20:52
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Ocean Book posted:we stretch together in the morning where I work, which is really nice That's cool. What do you do? "Yoga instructor."
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Apr 28, 2020 21:19
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Ghost Leviathan posted:All the people who make the decisions are completely insulated from any and all consequences of failure. Yeah this. In America nobody learns anything because nobody is ever punished for anything. If you tank a company, you'll get to be a CEO somewhere else because the title is a qualification unto itself, you can be a CEO because you were a CEO, the results don't matter. In government, hardly anybody keeps track anyway so you're free to do whatever you want. Maybe you won't get the top top job like what happened to Hillary, but that's fine she can just retire to her lavish homes. The financial crisis? All those guys probably got cushy jobs, certainly no jail, probably not even a dent on their resume. Meanwhile workers have to be extra super special and perfect at all times.
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Apr 28, 2020 21:33
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America is still number one in manufacturing outrage.
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Apr 28, 2020 21:54
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Chomp8645 posted:America is still number one in manufacturing outrage. Haha that gave me a chuckle and then I saw your redtext and then had a secondary chuckle.
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Apr 28, 2020 22:09
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The Fattest PI posted:Haha that gave me a chuckle and then I saw your redtext and then had a secondary chuckle.  Glad I could brighten your day, friend.
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Apr 28, 2020 22:11
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limp_cheese posted:While I was working for Hbitat for Humanity I would occasionally have to go pick up ~100 buckets of paint from this massive Sherwin Williams warehouse. While hanging out on the loading dock waiting for our paint they would sometimes do something like that. I don't know if it was a shift chnge or what but it looked kinda fun to me nd all the guys doing it seemed to like it. They would walk away from it laughing and smiling, ready to work. Of course this is all anecdotal but I swear I saw a study that showed this increased productivity and comraderie. This was a thing in the late 80s, I had the joy of being forced to do that poo poo. They even had a corporate clown. No really.
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Apr 28, 2020 23:24
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Doesn’t Walmart still do it?
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Apr 28, 2020 23:32
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limp_cheese posted:While I was working for Hbitat for Humanity I would occasionally have to go pick up ~100 buckets of paint from this massive Sherwin Williams warehouse. While hanging out on the loading dock waiting for our paint they would sometimes do something like that. I don't know if it was a shift chnge or what but it looked kinda fun to me nd all the guys doing it seemed to like it. They would walk away from it laughing and smiling, ready to work. Of course this is all anecdotal but I swear I saw a study that showed this increased productivity and comraderie. Is this like in the military where leaders are lovely to the enlisted on purpose so they all bond over hating them?
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Apr 28, 2020 23:35
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funkybottoms posted:i managed college bookstores for years and the last place i was at had an executive MBA program and they were the most entitled, stupid motherfuckers i ever had to deal with in that career Have you atoned for the sins of your past? I ask because college textbooks are one of the biggest scams known to man.
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Apr 29, 2020 00:46
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Burt Sexual posted:They even had a corporate clown. The CEO?
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Apr 29, 2020 02:12
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Burt Sexual posted:This was a thing in the late 80s, I had the joy of being forced to do that poo poo. They even had a corporate clown. No really. McDonalds?
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Apr 29, 2020 02:47
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I used to work in a steel forging plant during college, the last four years working in the cold inspection part. We had companies send back some crankshafts because I missed some cracks lol.
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Apr 29, 2020 02:56
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All American made products are poo poo and I for one welcome our new Chinese masters.
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Apr 29, 2020 03:00
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SubnormalityStairs posted:Have you atoned for the sins of your past? I ask because college textbooks are one of the biggest scams known to man. textbooks are low-margin (25% markup compared to, say, 40% or more on clothing) and bookstores carry as many used as possible. publishers don't like this because they make no money on them, so they publish new editions at higher prices and convince instructors to adopt them, meaning that students are stuck with old editions when the store will no longer buy them back and students the following term have no choice but to buy new. when i started that career as a high school summer job, there were usually at least five years between editions for your main 100- and 200-level courses, but ten years later it was typical for it to be every other year, and the rise in cost was many times the rate of inflation. also, the school takes a healthy percentage of the sales. this is a stripped-down explanation, but, no, i feel zero guilt about that and my family is Catholic as gently caress.
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Apr 29, 2020 06:00
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Ocean Book posted:we stretch together in the morning where I work, which is really nice And I thought that was just a joke in the Simpsons. Though it does seem like a good idea in general: basically, you're getting paid to exercise, and having a more physically fit and healthy workforce is a good thing.
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Apr 29, 2020 06:20
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funkybottoms posted:textbooks are low-margin (25% markup compared to, say, 40% or more on clothing) and bookstores carry as many used as possible. publishers don't like this because they make no money on them, so they publish new editions at higher prices and the instructors that wrote the textbook adopts it,
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Apr 29, 2020 06:42
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I only read the first page, was surprised to see this thread made it five pages and op managed to not get banned
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Apr 29, 2020 06:56
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPfeOAhDfbM
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Apr 29, 2020 08:10
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I guess a big part of it is everywhere else caught up from ww2 and having all their poo poo blown up.
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Apr 29, 2020 09:54
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Snowy posted:I only read the first page, was surprised to see this thread made it five pages and op managed to not get banned Despite OP’s best efforts this has actually turned into quite an interesting discussion about manufacturing.
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Apr 29, 2020 09:58
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As a machinist, I've had to re work parts from clients who thought it would be great to outsource and save money. It's lots of fun to charge them more to fix those parts than it would've cost to just have them made at my shop. Original cost for widget: 50.00/each Cost to fix widget that was outsourced by lovely client: 65.00/each Most of my customers are in science, medical and defense so they know the value of getting good parts the first time. Every now and then we end up with some purchasing manager who thinks they'll save the company all kinds of money by sending orders overseas. They're almost always wrong, and then they have to eat crow and ask us to fix the parts that we should've made for them in the first place. Naturally, it's always right before some trade show or product demonstration so I charge more for expedited service on top of all that.
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Apr 29, 2020 13:59
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If you haven't read, "Poorly Made in China" it's quite the eye-opener when it comes to why some manufactured products from China are so bad. Entire book in PDF: https://epdf.pub/poorly-made-in-china-an-insiders-account-of-the-china-production-game.html
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Apr 29, 2020 17:13
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Blistex posted:If you haven't read, "Poorly Made in China" it's quite the eye-opener when it comes to why some manufactured products from China are so bad.
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Apr 29, 2020 17:16
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Ghost Leviathan posted:And I thought that was just a joke in the Simpsons. But that's brainwashing! If you can't waddle into your job while glaring angrily at your coworkers whom you hate and have to spend 40+ hours of your week with, you are some kind of a slave to the corp/brainwashed peasant
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Apr 29, 2020 17:22
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Blistex posted:If you haven't read, "Poorly Made in China" it's quite the eye-opener when it comes to why some manufactured products from China are so bad. This is on my bookshelf and an amazing read. Even though its a few years out of date I'm sure a lot of what's written in there is still happening.
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Apr 29, 2020 17:30
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