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Haramstufe Rot posted:Turkish men often prefer average looking West-Europeans which is entirely incomprehensible to me. You have the best women right there in your god drat country what are you doing. Also some guys if that's your thing. This is a neverending debate in Turkey for the last 15-20 years and boy you'd be shocked how sexist/misogynistic/racist those conversations can get on twitter or eksisozluk (it's like a forum/dictionary/social media hybrid and used to be very influential social media website way, way before actual social media). Especially the male side of this "debate" is so deep into redpill/incel territory that it would make actual redpillers cower in fear and disgust.
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Jun 3, 2020 17:34
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Yeah at the end it's taste and tropes. Those are some great Janissary costumes tho check it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iljpQO4I40E&t=1899s
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Jun 3, 2020 17:42
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Phlegmish posted:Just how 'graphic' is it? It's pretty close but I would put it on the battle of Zenta instead and the Treaty of Karlowitz. The battle was a humiliating and encompassing defeat that drove home the lesson that Ottoman military ability had now been surpassed thoroughly by the West (Ottoman logisitcs though continued to remain excellent for a good long while still, but by the end of the 18th century had declined significantly and was simply atrocious in the 19th century*), while the Treat was really the first time that the Ottomans had a peace dictated to them that resultated in significant loss of land and marked a setback in their position in the Balkans that they would not recover. *I'm pretty familiar with this as I was/am a weirdo who decided to be extremely specific with the article I wrote for my bachelor's degree, looking at Ottoman attempts at military reform in the early to mid 19th century and specifically at their attempts to implement universal conscription. This leads into logistics alot of the time as well. Randarkman fucked around with this message at 17:58 on Jun 3, 2020 |
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Jun 3, 2020 17:48
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Haramstufe Rot posted:Yeah at the end it's taste and tropes. Yeah, the fresh cut modern fabrics and leathers a bit of an eyesore but it's quite good. I think they had one or two famous Ottoman historians as advisors and the Topkapı Museum as costume consultants.
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Jun 3, 2020 18:05
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eksisozluk is pretty much Turkish SA, which is probably why I transitioned from it to here so easily. Haven't visited that site in like a decade
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Jun 3, 2020 18:37
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Your brain thanks you for that.
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Jun 3, 2020 18:43
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A big part of the Ottoman decline is less that the Ottoman empire got worse and more that they didn't improve strength enough. During their hayday, they had a massive population and economic advantage over all their European rivals. Suleiman could fund his wars fairly comfortably with his yearly tax revenue. Despite sending massive armies on distant campaigns, he never got into serious debt. His Habsburg rival, HRE Charles V was perpetually bankrupt, trying to fund his armies with endless loans while still regularly missing payments for some of his soldiers for over a year. Can you imagine if the janissary were given nothing but lovely IOUs for an entire year instead of cold, hard coin? Well, that's what often happened to the European soldiers facing the janissaries. The Ottoman empire could boast well over double the population of the Kingdom of France. In the rare occasions when their cutting edge technology and military organization failed, the Ottomans could afford to grind down their European rivals in a war of attrition, confident that they had more stuff than their enemies. But then the European nations shot forward during the Colonial era. Now the Ottomans were still a serious power that did beat European powers up through the early 1700s. But by the end of the empire, the situation was reversed with the Ottomans having much less population and a much worse economic situation. At that point, Austria-Hungary had over double the population of the Ottoman empire, and major European powers had much more money. golden bubble fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Jun 3, 2020 |
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Jun 3, 2020 19:33
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Is it fair game ITT to post the forgotten weapons video on the cochran turret revolver about how a Turkish guy just so happened to see an experimental cannon demonstration by a 21 year old dude traveling to Europe, takes him to Turkey, and the dude finds out that they loving LOVE cannons and the dude is now ranked "Master of Cannon" to make more cannons and paid in literal bags of gold? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSNQ5yhEMXs&t=191s
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Jun 3, 2020 20:14
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The thread started as Fall of Byzantium thread and we talk about Ottoman eunuch sex now, so,  I'll check that one out as FW guy a.k.a. Gun Jesus is quite a good watch.
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Jun 3, 2020 20:29
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Randarkman posted:It's pretty close but I would put it on the battle of Zenta instead and the Treaty of Karlowitz. The battle was a humiliating and encompassing defeat that drove home the lesson that Ottoman military ability had now been surpassed thoroughly by the West (Ottoman logisitcs though continued to remain excellent for a good long while still, but by the end of the 18th century had declined significantly and was simply atrocious in the 19th century*), while the Treat was really the first time that the Ottomans had a peace dictated to them that resultated in significant loss of land and marked a setback in their position in the Balkans that they would not recover. Ah yes, I remember reading about this battle a while ago. Seems that the loss was largely due to bad luck, but the consequences were certainly severe. Haramstufe Rot posted:Turkish men often prefer average looking West-Europeans which is entirely incomprehensible to me. You have the best women right there in your god drat country what are you doing. Also some guys if that's your thing. This is mostly unrelated, but last year I was watching Bollywood music videos on YouTube for no particular reason, and I noticed that a lot of them had significant numbers of token white people in them. They generally weren't allowed to do anything important, background dancing at most, but it was apparently very important for them to be there. I laughed. I'm pretty sure many of these are in fact from the former Soviet Union and not Western Europe, but most Europeans can't tell the difference, let alone the rest of the world (if they even care).
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Jun 4, 2020 00:13
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It's not the case in Turkey but more like recent Chinese trend of white Westerners being owned by heroic natives with a single manly tear dropping from his eye and turning into a wolf. Not too different than Hollywood baddie of the month (Russians, brown people, PMCs etc.), tbh. In Turkish movies a white western woman is usually relagated to villain duties by being promiscious/conniving while Turkish female lead is a bastion of purity and motherly virtues. White males are also villians and boy o boy nothing gets a Turkish moviegoers proverbial rocks off than a moustache twirly British WW1 officer or an American spy getting punched in the balls. If not that, it's almost always a comic relief or eye candy. I can't remember a westerner that isn't a caricaturized cape and tall hat wearing villain or a Byzantine princess Bhattal Gazi bangs after putting a Chinese kung-fu master serving Byzantium to death by impaling him to a wall spike.
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Jun 4, 2020 01:11
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Galewolf posted:Sipahis were feudal lords with their own land (timar) which pretty much acted like a local western knight/baron who served to their Sancak Bey (Banner Lord, so you know where that one comes from Aha! Good to know. I've spent far too long playing Bannerlord and its predecessor.
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Jun 4, 2020 12:43
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) that had like one to three tuğ (horsehair plume banners) depending on the size of their fief.
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Tree Bucket posted:Aha! Good to know. More useless trivia, then! Mount&Blade is not a random name, it's a part of a very old (like, Central Asia old) Turkish adage: At, Avrat, Pusat It can mean [The most important things in the world:] Horse/Mount, Lady/Woman, Weapon/Sword (the literal translations might lose meaning so I did a rough interpretation). This is a more modern interpretation, most likely to be changed in time with increasing influence of Islam. or [The three things that you cannot touch without their permission] A horse's tail, a woman's hair and a man's sword/bow&arrow. The second interpretation generally sounds more accurate considering nomadic Turkish tribes were quite progressive for their time to the degree of almost matriarchal communities (e.g. the Kadun, wife of the Khan had the right to veto any decision) which carried to Anatolia until 13t-14th Century. Some accounts have horseback warrior women in early Ottoman days while the Seljuks, being under Iranian influence pushed women from the positions of state bu I digress. Therefore: Mount&Blade 
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Jun 4, 2020 13:09
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Galewolf posted:[excellent trivia re: M&B] Interesting! It always felt like a random sort of a name, if only because it sounds a bit awkward in English. (Everyone always says "what? Mountain Blade?") Anyway, I now feel better about jokingly calling it "Horse and Sword."
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Jun 4, 2020 13:30
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Banner Lord also sounds kinda off in English (?) but Sancak Beyi has a wonderful smooth roll when said in Turkish.
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Jun 4, 2020 13:35
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