Beriut Explosion

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William Henry Hairytaint: Oct 29, 2011

This thread is broken for me

# ? Aug 10, 2020 21:40

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# ? Apr 24, 2024 03:21

Kia Soul Enthusias: May 9, 2004; zoom-zoom; Toilet Rascal

Same, like a post got deleted or stuck in memcached bug?

Edit: it seems to have fixed, hopefully.

# ? Aug 10, 2020 22:01

AKA Pseudonym: May 16, 2004; A dashing and sophisticated young man; Doctor Rope

GORDON posted:

What does "replacing the government" entail? The people at the top, yeah. But what about the 25 layers of bureaucracy underneath them, who are very accustomed to skimming and getting their beaks wet?

It would need to be like the Reconstruction-era southern US. EVERYBODY goes, from government officials to business owners. And because of that, recovery will take decades.

In a Parliamentary system "government" just means the Prime Minister and their Cabinet. Something similar to what Administration means in the US.

# ? Aug 10, 2020 22:31

Excelzior: Jun 24, 2013

Grape posted:

Someone already pointed this out, in parliamentary democracies this kind of move is basically "new election time".

you don't usually call for a new election right when a major disaster occurs, that's about the single worst possible time for an election

this is clear sign of capitulation/trying to avoid accountability

come on man

^^^ makes much more sense. No election, just new administration

# ? Aug 11, 2020 00:14

Dont Touch ME: Apr 1, 2018

Ah yes. Government known and hated for being absolutely corrupt. Please sidestep the ponyshow entirely and just appoint yourselves wholesale.

Get real.

# ? Aug 11, 2020 00:49

Jeza: Feb 13, 2011; The cries of the dead are terrible indeed; you should try not to hear them.

Traditionally, a government resigning is not akin to avoiding accountability but the act of being accountable itself. It's an act of recognition that public anger is so great that the current government is untenable, and the mandate to rule has been lost because the situation has changed so dramatically that a new mandate (and faces) are necessary.

It often triggers a new election in a stable state with 2-3 major parties. However, as it happens, Lebanon has a large number of parties and all governments for the last X years have been governments of national unity, i.e. drawn from many parties at once, so it is possible to completely chop and change without needing an election.

# ? Aug 11, 2020 11:49

Methylethylaldehyde: Oct 23, 2004; BAKA BAKA

Jeza posted:

It often triggers a new election in a stable state with 2-3 major parties. However, as it happens, Lebanon has a large number of parties and all governments for the last X years have been governments of national unity, i.e. drawn from many parties at once, so it is possible to completely chop and change without needing an election.

"Hello, I am new boss, and totally not interchangeable with Old Boss. We hope that as part of New Boss, your anger at Old Boss won't see us strung up from street lamps, since we are all part of the same parties, go to the same mosques and are friends with all the same oligarchs."

# ? Aug 11, 2020 21:25

Jeza: Feb 13, 2011; The cries of the dead are terrible indeed; you should try not to hear them.

Methylethylaldehyde posted:

"Hello, I am new boss, and totally not interchangeable with Old Boss. We hope that as part of New Boss, your anger at Old Boss won't see us strung up from street lamps, since we are all part of the same parties, go to the same mosques and are friends with all the same oligarchs."

Parliamentary office in Lebanon is drawn up on sectarian lines in equal parts Christian/Muslim, and the extreme on both sides hate one another, so probably not the same parties, mosques or oligarchs. You might draw a comparison to the power sharing arrangement in Northern Ireland.

# ? Aug 11, 2020 21:51

eggyolk: Nov 8, 2007

After scrolling through a lot of idle speculation it seems pertinent to post an actual news source that clarifies some of the questions being posted.

Al Jazeera posted:

Lebanon's government has stepped down as Prime Minister Hassan Diab blamed endemic corruption for a devastating explosion last week that tore through the capital.

President Michel Aoun accepted Diab's resignation on Monday and asked the government to stay on in a caretaker capacity until a new cabinet was formed.

Tensions have been boiling over in the country following the massive explosion at Beirut's port that killed some 170 people, with dozens still missing and 6,000 wounded.

"This crime" was a result of corruption that is "bigger than the state", Diab said in a televised statement, adding that he was taking "a step back" so he could stand with the people "and fight the battle for change alongside them".

"I declare today the resignation of this government. May God protect Lebanon," Diab said, repeating the last phrase three times.

The developments follow a weekend of angry, violent anti-establishment protests in which 728 people were wounded and one police officer killed amid a heavy crackdown by security forces.

Through analysis of videos and images of the security response by the army and men in plain-clothes on the day, and examination of medical documents and interviews with doctors who treated the wounded, Al Jazeera established that security forces violated international standards on the use of force.

Political and economic reforms

The August 4 disaster, which was caused by highly explosive ammonium nitrate that was stored at Beirut's port for more than six years, has fuelled popular anger and upended politics in a country already struggling with a major economic crisis.

Most Lebanese blame their leadership's corruption and neglect for the explosion, which has caused damage to the extent of an estimated $15bn and left nearly 300,000 people homeless.

Since October, there have been mass demonstrations demanding the departure of the entire sectarian-based leadership over entrenched corruption, incompetence and mismanagement.

But the ruling oligarchy has held onto power for so long - since the end of the civil war in 1990 - that it is difficult to find a credible political figure not tainted by connections to them.

Although Diab's resignation had appeared inevitable after the catastrophe, he seemed unwilling to leave and only two days ago made a televised speech in which he offered to stay on for two months to allow for various factions to agree on a road map for reforms. But the pressure from within his cabinet proved to be too much.

'Historic turning point'

Diab's government was formed after his predecessor, Saad Hariri, stepped down under pressure from the protest movement. It took months of bickering among the leadership factions before they settled on Diab.

His government, which was supported by Hezbollah and its allies and seen as one-sided, failed to implement the sweeping political and economic reforms that it had promised.

Now the process must start again, with Diab's government in a caretaker role as the same factions debate a new one.

Al Jazeera's Bernard Smith, reporting from Beirut, said the change is going to be challenging because Lebanon's electoral system is set up "to protect the political elite in the country".

"To change that system, those political elites have to agree to it," Smith said.

"Even an explosion as catastrophic as Tuesday's might not be enough to get those elites easily give up their grip on power ... That's why international pressure, people believe, is necessary."

On Sunday, world leaders and international organisations pledged nearly $300m in emergency humanitarian aid to Beirut, but warned no funds would be made available until Lebanese authorities committed themselves to the political and economic reforms demanded by the people.

Rami Khouri, a professor at the American University of Beirut, described the developments of the past week as "a historic turning point in the modern political governance of Lebanon" that is "just at the beginning".

Khouri said there were essentially two main forces currently in Lebanon: "One is Hezbollah and its close allies, and the other one is the protest movement, or the revolution as they call themselves - these are all kinds of people but they do represent the majority of the population."

"The question is, will there be a serious negotiation now," he said, noting that the formation of "a hybrid government" tasked to address Lebanon's critical issues was likely.

"They will have to agree on whether the transitional government that comes in is a serious reformist government, with 'clean' and efficient people that can get the support of the international community and do a quick deal with the IMF."

Meanwhile, Habib Battah, a Lebanon-based journalist, questioned how long the caretaker government would remain in place since it is "very difficult" to form a government in Lebanon.

"The Diab government was many months in the making," Battah said.

He said while the resignation could be seen as a victory for the protesters who view the government as a "corrupt system", it is important to note that others benefit from it.

Political parties control schools and hospitals, among other things across the country.

"These parties are really tough to compete against in elections," Battah said, adding that it was up to the international community to stop supporting these parties if it were serious about helping Lebanon.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/08/lebanon-pm-hassan-diab-resigns-anger-beirut-blast-200810135202076.html

# ? Aug 11, 2020 22:08

Hasselblad: Dec 13, 2017; My dumbass opinions are only outweighed by my racism.

No one forgot that I exist to defend violent cops, champion chaining down immigrants, and have trash opinions on cooking.

How on earth did only ~170 people die from this? Watching the footage of the bride, the doors being blown off the hinges, and those folks still walking afterward amazed me.

# ? Aug 12, 2020 03:40

Grape: Nov 16, 2017; Happily shilling for China!

Jeza posted:

Parliamentary office in Lebanon is drawn up on sectarian lines in equal parts Christian/Muslim, and the extreme on both sides hate one another, so probably not the same parties, mosques or oligarchs. You might draw a comparison to the power sharing arrangement in Northern Ireland.

Don't simplify it to Christian/Muslim, it's by sect as well.
The three main groups are the Maronite Christians, Sunni Muslims, and Shia Muslims. And the shifting alliances and whatnot have by no means been on co-religious grounds.

Honestly in that sense Yugoslavia is a better comparison, where for as much violence as the Muslims there experienced, a lot of the fighting and animosity was between the Catholics and Orthodox Christians.

# ? Aug 12, 2020 03:45

FoolyCharged: Oct 11, 2012; Cheating at a raffle? I sentence you to 1 year in jail! No! Two years! Three! Four! Five years! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah!
Somebody call for an ant?

Hasselblad posted:

How on earth did only ~170 people die from this? Watching the footage of the bride, the doors being blown off the hinges, and those folks still walking afterward amazed me.

Forget doors being blown off hinges, there was one clip of a boat or something where a poor girl got blasted with a loving wall length window worth of shrapnel. And stood up afterwards.

# ? Aug 12, 2020 03:47

hakimashou: Jul 15, 2002; Upset Trowel

Hasselblad posted:

How on earth did only ~170 people die from this? Watching the footage of the bride, the doors being blown off the hinges, and those folks still walking afterward amazed me.

the shock wave wasnt powerful enough to kill people jsut by hitting them

# ? Aug 12, 2020 03:49

Nooner: Mar 26, 2011; AN A+ OPSTER (:

One time I was at this frat mixer that I crashed I don't even remember where it was, I think we were down in SD, but like our chapter there was having a mixer with this sorority that we just went to anyways and it was cool, but anyways they were calling beer pong "bombs over beruit" which I thought was retarded as gently caress it is clearly called beer pong but anyways we played beer pong and I hooked up with a cute girl and I think I would much rather play beer pong in Beirut than get exploded by an actual bomb.

That is my Beirut story.

# ? Aug 12, 2020 04:41

Flannelette: Jan 17, 2010

hakimashou posted:

the shock wave wasnt powerful enough to kill people jsut by hitting them

And the things thrown by the explosion weren't going fast enough either.
And the buildings seem to be pretty well built so not much fell down on people.

# ? Aug 12, 2020 04:58

Meme Poker Party: Sep 1, 2006; by Azathoth

Hasselblad posted:

How on earth did only ~170 people die from this? Watching the footage of the bride, the doors being blown off the hinges, and those folks still walking afterward amazed me.

Two things. The first is that the average person grossly underestimates the durability of an average human being. The second is that they overestimate the number of people in urban commercial buildings.

# ? Aug 12, 2020 06:16

CleverHans: Apr 25, 2011; Can't post for 8 years!

Flannelette posted:

And the things thrown by the explosion weren't going fast enough either.
And the buildings seem to be pretty well built so not much fell down on people.

Beirut was wrecked during the civil war and a great deal of buildings are modern construction, built after 1990.

This, ironically, may have saved many lives in the most recent disaster.

# ? Aug 12, 2020 07:56

Kill All Cops: Apr 11, 2007; Pacheco de Chocobo; Hell Gem

Chomp8645 posted:

Two things. The first is that the average person grossly underestimates the durability of an average human being. The second is that they overestimate the number of people in urban commercial buildings.

literally the only thing you need to know is that the explosion wasnt fast enough to break the speed of sound, and if it did, hundreds more wouldve died

# ? Aug 12, 2020 08:18

Big Beef City: Aug 15, 2013

Kill All Cops posted:

literally the only thing you need to know is that the explosion wasnt fast enough to break the speed of sound, and if it did, hundreds more wouldve died

# ? Aug 12, 2020 11:09

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

A lot more would've died probably if it happened an hour or two earlier when there were more workers around the docks. Further out it wasn't that dangerous thankfully.

# ? Aug 12, 2020 11:25

Mooey Cow: Jan 27, 2018; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS; Pillbug

Hey. Hey!

Get this: Ammonium nitrate, a high explosive (it detonates, a supersonic process, rather than deflagrates or combusts), creates a shockwave, an expanding blob of gas that is supersonic for a short amount of time before losing enough energy to only travel at the speed of sound like a normal pressure wave. I don't know what the hell that dude in the Wired article measured but it wasn't the right thing. Probably it was the condensation cloud which will seem to slow down as the amplitude of the wave drops.
If you look at the water, you can see the blast wave speeding off at constant speed and this is also often seen on the ground in aerial footage of other big explosion. That speed is the speed of sound. An explosion doesn't produce a blast wave and a separate sound wave, they are the same thing and that is why the boom arrives at the same time as the overpressure and blast wind.

I don't know how people can read an article that says "fortunately the pressure wave traveled slower than the speed of sound" and go " :hmmyes:

good, fortunate indeed" instead of losing their minds and instantly making GBS threads their pants like a normal person.

Mooey Cow fucked around with this message at 12:35 on Aug 12, 2020

# ? Aug 12, 2020 12:33

latinotwink1997: Jan 2, 2008; Taste my Ball of Hope, foul dragon!

Mooey Cow posted:

Hey. Hey!

Get this: Ammonium nitrate, a high explosive (it detonates, a supersonic process, rather than deflagrates or combusts), creates a shockwave, an expanding blob of gas that is supersonic for a short amount of time before losing enough energy to only travel at the speed of sound like a normal pressure wave. I don't know what the hell that dude in the Wired article measured but it wasn't the right thing. Probably it was the condensation cloud which will seem to slow down as the amplitude of the wave drops.
If you look at the water, you can see the blast wave speeding off at constant speed and this is also often seen on the ground in aerial footage of other big explosion. That speed is the speed of sound. An explosion doesn't produce a blast wave and a separate sound wave, they are the same thing and that is why the boom arrives at the same time as the overpressure and blast wind.

I don't know how people can read an article that says "fortunately the pressure wave traveled slower than the speed of sound" and go " good, fortunate indeed" instead of losing their minds and instantly making GBS threads their pants like a normal person.

What about that video of the lady taking poses in her wedding dress? The sudden rush of wind occurs about 2-3 seconds before the boom. This seems to contradict at least one of your points or I misinterpreted what was happening in the video. Though I don�t necessarily agree with the Wire article either.

# ? Aug 12, 2020 17:50

azurite: Jul 25, 2010; Strange, isn't it?!

latinotwink1997 posted:

What about that video of the lady taking poses in her wedding dress? The sudden rush of wind occurs about 2-3 seconds before the boom. This seems to contradict at least one of your points or I misinterpreted what was happening in the video. Though I don’t necessarily agree with the Wire article either.

https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1291018682634829826?s=20

???

Seems simultaneous to me.

# ? Aug 13, 2020 03:08

Nooner: Mar 26, 2011; AN A+ OPSTER (:

If I ever get exploded I hope I go out in a cool gib and spray blood and gore all over the place

# ? Aug 13, 2020 03:47

Nooner: Mar 26, 2011; AN A+ OPSTER (:

The only cooler way to go out would be like that Roman dude in Pompeii that was just chilling there jerkin it when he got all preserved in the ashee

# ? Aug 13, 2020 03:49

GlobglogGroAbgalab: Jul 25, 2016; It appears that the elephant is highly sensitive to the effects of LSD - a finding which may prove to be valuable in elephant-control work in Africa.

I always keep it...handy.

# ? Aug 13, 2020 04:08

Flannelette: Jan 17, 2010

Mooey Cow posted:

Hey. Hey!

Get this: Ammonium nitrate, a high explosive

I don't think AN by itself is a high explosive it just reacts very fast once it is hot enough and makes its own pressure and there hasn't been any news of if a fuel source mixed with it during the fire to make it one. Some of it might of detonated and the rest deflagrated with it.

# ? Aug 13, 2020 07:39

500excf type r: Mar 7, 2013; I'm as annoying as the high-pitched whine of my motorcycle, desperately compensating for the lack of substance in my life.

Nooner posted:

One time I was at this frat mixer that I crashed I don't even remember where it was, I think we were down in SD, but like our chapter there was having a mixer with this sorority that we just went to anyways and it was cool, but anyways they were calling beer pong "bombs over beruit" which I thought was retarded as gently caress it is clearly called beer pong but anyways we played beer pong and I hooked up with a cute girl and I think I would much rather play beer pong in Beirut than get exploded by an actual bomb.

That is my Beirut story.

I always thought beirut was the dumbest name for beer pong but I guess it gets even dumber lol

# ? Aug 13, 2020 08:28

BEAR GRYLLZ: Jul 30, 2006; I have strong erections for Israel.
Strong, pathetic erections.

latinotwink1997 posted:

What about that video of the lady taking poses in her wedding dress? The sudden rush of wind occurs about 2-3 seconds before the boom. This seems to contradict at least one of your points or I misinterpreted what was happening in the video. Though I don�t necessarily agree with the Wire article either.

That's not a rush of wind, it's the shockwave from the explosion traveling through the ground where the speed of sound is much faster than in air.

# ? Aug 13, 2020 09:27

Flannelette: Jan 17, 2010

latinotwink1997 posted:

What about that video of the lady taking poses in her wedding dress? The sudden rush of wind occurs about 2-3 seconds before the boom. This seems to contradict at least one of your points or I misinterpreted what was happening in the video. Though I don�t necessarily agree with the Wire article either.

I think your video was just out of sync with the audio for that upload since when I saw it they were together.

# ? Aug 13, 2020 10:32

Porfiriato: Jan 4, 2016

Nah, there was also that video of the priest giving communion where there's some sort of initial wave that rumbles and knocks a few things over. He keeps going (without missing a beat!) and then 5-10 seconds later, the main blast wave arrives that blows out windows etc. I think as mentioned it might be the difference in speed for the wave traveling through the earth vs the air.

Edit: this one - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Midn0d8-e8A

Porfiriato fucked around with this message at 10:50 on Aug 13, 2020

# ? Aug 13, 2020 10:45

Mooey Cow: Jan 27, 2018; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS; Pillbug

Regarding the wedding dress video, the ground wave will produce a kind of rumbling sound, kind of like an earthquake (which it kind of is), before the air pressure wave hits. Someone also made an interesting calculation based on the displacement of that wedding dress
https://interestingengineering.com/physicist-estimates-the-energy-of-the-beirut-explosion

Sounds like a hosed up round about way to calculate anything, but as they point out Fermi did estimate the yield of the Trinity explosion to within an order of magnitude using a similar method. They seem to be surrounded by buildings though which may affect the dynamics of the wave in hard to predict ways.

Flannelette posted:

I don't think AN by itself is a high explosive it just reacts very fast once it is hot enough and makes its own pressure and there hasn't been any news of if a fuel source mixed with it during the fire to make it one. Some of it might of detonated and the rest deflagrated with it.

It is, but it's not as easy to make AN detonate on its own as it is when you mix it with other materials. Simply heating it may not do it (but it definitely can, especially if it's been contaminated with any number of seemingly innocuous compounds), but both shock and deflagration can cause it to detonate, and has done so in many previous disasters. Certainly setting off fireworks in a huge stash of AN is not a good idea.

# ? Aug 13, 2020 12:35

Tormented: Jan 22, 2004; "And the goat shall bear upon itself all their iniquities unto a solitary place..."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCufivZJNUQ

Dear lord.

# ? Aug 13, 2020 16:39

GORDON: Jan 1, 2006; by Fluffdaddy

Aww, the babies.

# ? Aug 13, 2020 16:49

latinotwink1997: Jan 2, 2008; Taste my Ball of Hope, foul dragon!

Flannelette posted:

I think your video was just out of sync with the audio for that upload since when I saw it they were together.

Yea, seems that was the case.

# ? Aug 13, 2020 18:10

EL BROMANCE: Jun 10, 2006; COWABUNGA DUDES!
🥷🐢😬

Nooner posted:

If I ever get exploded I hope I go out in a cool gib and spray blood and gore all over the place

Need to yell out a cool catchphrase like 'taste the rainbow' before causing a bad laundry day for everyone standing around you.

# ? Aug 13, 2020 18:18

GlobglogGroAbgalab: Jul 25, 2016; It appears that the elephant is highly sensitive to the effects of LSD - a finding which may prove to be valuable in elephant-control work in Africa.

Imagine that I linked the mine scene from Flashbacks of a Fool

# ? Aug 13, 2020 18:25