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mysterious frankie posted:O’Brien is cloned and watches himself die like twice during the run of ds9. I think two clonings cancel each other out to equal zero clonings. Basic clone math. There's the one episode where O'Brien is suspicious of everyone acting weird around him and in the literal last minute he dies and it turns out that he was a clone all along with the original O'Brien having been held captive. IIRC, the books have Scotty beat the simulation by using a physics trick that worked in the holodeck but not in real life, which got him transferred to the engineering track like he wanted. Though the simulation in some versions does fight back against bullshit, supposedly one case had it spawn more Klingon warships than the entire Empire had at the time. Star Trek: Starfleet Academy for SNES has the final scenario be of course the Kobiyasha Maru, and scripted to lose of course, unless you do a cheat code and happen to go through the whole game named James T Kirk. There's also some variants on the theme as other simulations, like one where a star system's sun is about to blow and you only have enough time to choose from one of the planets, a space station or a freighter to save people from.
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May 9, 2021 16:18
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Ghost Leviathan posted:There's the one episode where O'Brien is suspicious of everyone acting weird around him and in the literal last minute he dies and it turns out that he was a clone all along with the original O'Brien having been held captive. There's the time he's killed and replaced with a future o'brien, which I count, so that I'm right. I'm sure there's some rhetoric I could devise to better support my claim, but, nah.
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May 9, 2021 16:23
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Don't forget that DS9 ends with O'Brien going to Starfleet Academy to teach. I wonder if they cover your captain dragging you into a baseball game.
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May 9, 2021 16:40
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Star Trek: Starfleet Academy for SNES has the final scenario be of course the Kobiyasha Maru, and scripted to lose of course, unless you do a cheat code and happen to go through the whole game named James T Kirk. There's also some variants on the theme as other simulations, like one where a star system's sun is about to blow and you only have enough time to choose from one of the planets, a space station or a freighter to save people from. Well that's a lame port; original PC version had that mission but you had to work out how to cheat like Kirk did if you wanted to win, which in this case was programming the Klingons to respect him so he could hail them in the test and they were all like "The great Captain Kirk? Of course we trust you when you say this is a misunderstanding, please go ahead and finish your rescue!". Liked that so much better than the version in the reboot movies; much more out of the box and clever than just disabling the enemy, and it even fits Starfleet ethics better (solving a problem through diplomacy rather than blasting everybody away).
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May 10, 2021 05:07
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MadDogMike posted:Well that's a lame port; original PC version had that mission but you had to work out how to cheat like Kirk did if you wanted to win, which in this case was programming the Klingons to respect him so he could hail them in the test and they were all like "The great Captain Kirk? Of course we trust you when you say this is a misunderstanding, please go ahead and finish your rescue!". Liked that so much better than the version in the reboot movies; much more out of the box and clever than just disabling the enemy, and it even fits Starfleet ethics better (solving a problem through diplomacy rather than blasting everybody away). Just looking that up... it's not a port, and actually came out years before the PC game. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_Starfleet_Academy_%E2%80%93_Starship_Bridge_Simulator I played it a ton as a kid; not great, but fun enough to mess around in.
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May 10, 2021 08:11
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Star Trek: Starfleet Academy for SNES has the final scenario be of course the Kobiyasha Maru, and scripted to lose of course, unless you do a cheat code and happen to go through the whole game named James T Kirk. There's also some variants on the theme as other simulations, like one where a star system's sun is about to blow and you only have enough time to choose from one of the planets, a space station or a freighter to save people from. In the Genesis 32x version you could tell the Kobiyashi Maru to gently caress off, finish your patrol, and then get lectured by Kirk for not being compassionate enough.
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May 10, 2021 12:04
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I just wish I could get Klingon Academy working right; got it sort of working on my new system but had it fail to trigger something in an early mission so I couldn't proceed. That game had the best feel to it; ships moved like large vessels (instead of the original Starfleet Academy where it felt like controlling fighters) and you could watch them just get hammered to bits from battle damage. Now I'm trying to remember if it was Starfleet or Klingon Academy who had the "stop dead in space so you collide with them" enemy AI; whoever programmed that can go gently caress themselves.
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May 11, 2021 21:11
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Klingon Academy could be buggy and unstable even when it was running on the hardware it was intended for; I'm impressed you've got it running at all on a new multi-core system that might well have more RAM than I had hard drive space back then. But, yes, I loved playing KA too; it had a great feel to it. Very satisfying to see a torpedo hit blast out a chunk of the enemy's hull.
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May 14, 2021 05:18
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This thread seems as good as any to stick something I drew tonight 
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May 14, 2021 07:38
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Spinz posted:This thread seems as good as any to stick something I drew tonight And now we know what the Kobayashi Maru was trying to transport across the Neutral Zone.
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May 14, 2021 09:25
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Lol irl 
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May 14, 2021 09:50
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My understanding of the Kobayashi Maru test is so that Starfleet can see the character of the officers before deciding whether to promote them and what their assignments will be. It doesn't appear that people are judged for abandoning the ship or for crossing the Neutral Zone to save the ship, but instead, how they react under pressure. It seems that Starfleet was content with Savik and crew's futile fight to the death, as they didn't tense up when things got hairy after they jumped into the situation. Kirk "cheating" on the test wasn't really a problem. It told Starfleet that Kirk was clever, which is something they valued so they gave him a ship. Pretty much the same result as Savik and friends fighting to the death. I think Starfleet would be concerned if a crew jumped in to save the freighter, but when things got hairy, the crew started breaking down, or if they did stuff like trying to sacrifice the freighter to save themselves. Aglet56 posted:furthermore, kirk's whole thing about "i don't believe in no-win scenarios" in wrath of khan is dumb because the kobayashi maru scenario seems to be basically programmed like an arcade game I think it was just more of a general storytelling statement. Thus far Kirk has managed to get out of everything with minimal personal loss to what he cares about. Sure, he loss a bunch of redshirts he didn't care about while adventuring, but what does that matter? He doesn't care about them. He's still captain of the enterprise and still has his main cast of officers. But this time, he's in for a rude awakening when he's about to lose something he does actually care about.
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May 23, 2021 02:32
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I would immediately self destruct my ship (before anything even happened). If I can't win might as well do a speedrun. That's the kind of creativity Starfleet wants, right?
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May 23, 2021 12:43
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sad question posted:I would immediately self destruct my ship (before anything even happened). If I can't win might as well do a speedrun. Well you're going to habe to follow protocol and convince your crew to do it so good luck
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May 23, 2021 14:12
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Pretty sure the whole point is you don’t know it’s a no-win scenario.
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May 24, 2021 18:26
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I realize I'm in the kobayashi maru test and immediately eat my phaser. As for my AI crew or whatever they are, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=va7eI1QtOYk&t=35s
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May 24, 2021 18:33
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Barudak posted:Well you're going to habe to follow protocol and convince your crew to do it so good luck that's what blasters are for
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May 24, 2021 22:53
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indigi posted:that's what blasters are for Replicator, all the flavor aide you can make
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May 25, 2021 05:40
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Zesty posted:Pretty sure the whole point is you don’t know it’s a no-win scenario. 
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May 25, 2021 07:27
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Enter the Neutral Zone. Find the Kobayashi Maru. Ram it at maximum warp and just Holdo the Klingon Battlecruisers out of existence with the superliminal debris shower. Where’s my commendation, Starfleet?
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May 25, 2021 09:39
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sad question posted:Joke's on them, immediate self destruct is my go-to answer for any test I'm sorry, Mr. Yuy, but the recruitment offices for Operation Meteor are three doors to the right. Best of luck all the same.
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May 25, 2021 11:02
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Create a ship in the Holodeck, give it sentience, and then tell that ship to go handle the Kobayashi Maru.
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Jun 1, 2021 22:27
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Bogus Adventure posted:That was my understanding, but I'm not up to anything past Voyager tbqh.
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Jun 6, 2021 16:01
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I'm not that much of a Trek-guy but my takeaway from hearing about the KM and about Kirk's reaction to is that he was an emotionally stunted man-child deeply unfit for command and dangerous to himself and to anyone unfortunate enough to be assigned to serve under him (which, from my (again: brief and superficial) understanding of TOS and the movies seems to be borne-out) but, because scifi fans are terrible, it was instead generally understood to prove what a bad-rear end he was? E: Like, I'm not a soldierboi or anything but my understanding is that one of the hardest/most important things they teach young officer types is that command is about trading people's lives for objectives, and that sometimes even doing all the right things in the right way at the right time will still end up with good people dead, and dead because of what you told them to do (and that you, yes: you, can be among them). And it seems like the KM was supposed to be that lesson and Kirk just blew it off, which seems like it isn't great? Schadenboner fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Jun 6, 2021 |
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Jun 6, 2021 19:48
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that's like what the entire movie it's introduced in is about, yes
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Jun 8, 2021 15:59
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Also in Nu-Trek him cheating on it is the last straw. It is not a good thing to Starfleet
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Jun 9, 2021 03:24
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Schadenboner posted:I'm not that much of a Trek-guy but my takeaway from hearing about the KM and about Kirk's reaction to is that he was an emotionally stunted man-child deeply unfit for command and dangerous to himself and to anyone unfortunate enough to be assigned to serve under him (which, from my (again: brief and superficial) understanding of TOS and the movies seems to be borne-out) but, because scifi fans are terrible, it was instead generally understood to prove what a bad-rear end he was? You don't pass or fail the Kobayashi Maru. The entire point is to figure out the kind of person you are near the end of your education. Kirk is someone who will cheat and break the rules when things don't go his way. That's the kind of person he is, for better or worse. "I haven't faced death. I've cheated death. I've tricked my way out of death and patted myself on the back for my ingenuity. I know nothing."
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Jun 10, 2021 01:00
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Barudak posted:Also in Nu-Trek him cheating on it is the last straw. It is not a good thing to Starfleet I mean surely they got all the relevant data they needed from his first two runs
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Jun 10, 2021 01:47
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Nu-Trek, notoriously on point with it's Star Trek.
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Jun 10, 2021 01:58
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Schadenboner posted:I'm not that much of a Trek-guy but my takeaway from hearing about the KM and about Kirk's reaction to is that he was an emotionally stunted man-child deeply unfit for command and dangerous to himself and to anyone unfortunate enough to be assigned to serve under him (which, from my (again: brief and superficial) understanding of TOS and the movies seems to be borne-out) but, because scifi fans are terrible, it was instead generally understood to prove what a bad-rear end he was? It's a personality quiz and a measure of what sort of captain you'll be. It's actually pretty simple but it can be as shallow or as deep as you want. Kirk's whole thing is that he's stubborn and a sore loser and he also has a romantic friendship with Spock who is the person most important to him. WoK is about the fact that despite being the most famous and storied Starfleet captain, he never truly lost before. He was able to mitigate, or squirm out at the last minute, or make his enemy's victory so pyrric that his opposition regretted coming into contact with him at all. That's part of his character and what makes him an effective captain. It has its downsides but Spock and McCoy are there to help him mitigate those. KM is just the earliest illustration of his tendencies. Then WoK happens and Kirk finally loses, and when he does it costs him nearly everything he cherishes and loves. I wouldn't necessarily characterize it as being a "man child," it's just the story of a guy who hates losing and what it takes to finally make him lose.
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Jun 18, 2021 15:49
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