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Pablo Bluth
Sep 7, 2007

I've made a huge mistake.
The impending 20-0 season...

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mcmagic
Jul 1, 2004

If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

sirtommygunn posted:

I think the Jets will be bad, but not bottom of the league bad like last year. They'll finish with 5-6 wins and need to trade up to get the next overhyped #2 QB in the draft next year, who will also be a bust, and the cycle shall continue unto the end of the world.

It's early to give up on Wilson. Don't get brain broke by Bills' fans wishful thinking. Also, if Wilson does end up being awful this year, they can't go back into the draft, they need to get an established QB because this team is going to be built to win now, not dick around for 1-2 years while another rookie learns how to play in the NFL.

Kalli
Jun 2, 2001



Considering what FA looks like, would you rather roll with a rookie or Jimmy G or Baker Mayfield (with the caveat that if Baker looks anything like a top 10 QB, the Panthers will absolutely sign him).

Amy Pole Her
Jun 17, 2002
You yourself said that if Wilson stinks this year they’ve gotta move on. You two just disagree (naturally) that Wilson will or won’t make a huge leap.

The irony of you being the only person in the entire thread to scream BS!! after 5 positive replies isn’t going unnoticed lol

mcmagic
Jul 1, 2004

If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Kalli posted:

Considering what FA looks like, would you rather roll with a rookie or Jimmy G or Baker Mayfield (with the caveat that if Baker looks anything like a top 10 QB, the Panthers will absolutely sign him).

It's very dumb to just assume in September of 2022 that you know what QBs are going to be available in the 2023 offseason. Highly premature.

Diva Cupcake
Aug 15, 2005

Even getting presumptuous, you might be able to add Cousins or Tannehill to that list depending on how things shake out with Malik Willis' development. That's pretty much it.

Even if Lamar goes nuclear I don't see him being made available until 2024 earliest.

Professor Funk
Aug 4, 2008

WE ALL KNOW WHAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN
Luckily we don't have to agree or disagree about what Wilson will (or won't) do for long! So I'm just going to watch the games and see what happens

Diva Cupcake
Aug 15, 2005

Steven Ruiz does a QB rankings list on The Ringer and I can't argue with much of Zach's profile. The rankings are obviously questionable as he rated Geno Smith 22 and only Josh is in the top half of the league.

https://qbrankings.theringer.com/

quote:

5. Josh Allen
HIS GAME IS STILL A LITTLE ROUGH AROUND THE EDGES, but an impossibly strong arm and a massive frame make up for a lot.


BREAKDOWN
Let Josh Allen be a reminder that football is dominated by the biggest, the fastest, and the strongest—even at a position where immeasurables supposedly matter more. Allen’s accuracy is spotty. He doesn’t always adhere to the timing of the offense. He is routinely fooled by pre-snap disguises. And yet none of that nerd poo poo matters, because he can throw a football as well as anyone in the history of the sport, and tackling him is a job that requires several participants. Throw in a big old heap of “got that dog in him,” and competent organizational support, and you get one of the best quarterbacks in the league.

Maybe I’m over simplifying the recipe for Allen’s success, but there just aren’t a lot of examples of the 26-year-old beating defenses with guile. That will come with experience, though, and we’ve already seen marked improvement in the more mental aspects of playing the position over Allen’s three full years as a starter. He throws with more touch now. He uses his eyes to hold defenders and unlock throwing windows. And he does more before the snap to keep the Bills offense out of trouble. If Allen can maintain his athletic excellence long enough for the rest of his game to catch up, he could top these rankings one day.

BIGGEST STRENGTH: ARM TALENT
Allen’s arm affords him a margin of error that no other quarterback in the league enjoys. If he needs a little extra time to decide whether a receiver is open, he can take it knowing he can transport the ball to his guy in an instant. And it doesn’t matter what’s going around him or how set his feet are—Allen is going to get the ball to its destination.

BIGGEST WEAKNESS: PRE-SNAP
Creative defensive coordinators remain Allen’s weakness. The brawny QB still has a hard time keeping up with defenses that change the picture on him after the snap. Allen can usually overcome any pre-snap mistakes thanks to his mobility, but he’s at his best when he’s comfortable with what he’s seeing.


18. Mac Jones
ALREADY A SMART DISTRIBUTOR, he’ll need to evolve physically to establish himself as a franchise QB.


BREAKDOWN
Mac Jones was everything we thought he could be during his first NFL season. He was accurate. He got rid of the ball quickly. He picked up the Patriots offense in a hurry. No matter how his rookie campaign ended, it set a very high floor for his career.

My skepticism about his ceiling, though, remains as strong as ever following his late-season slide. When defenses crowded the line of scrimmage and dared Jones to beat them downfield, he usually passed on the opportunity (outside of the odd “go” ball to the perimeter—the preferred weapon for many quarterbacks with weaker arms). Jones also refused to test many tight windows over the middle of the field, often preferring to dump the ball off.

But while Jones figures out how to properly calibrate his aggression, his smarts and accuracy will carry him in a well-designed offense. Jones is already one of the best touch throwers in the NFL, and he knows how to use his eyes to move a defender out of a throwing lane. The second-year pro is also capable of scrambling for a first down when he catches the defense napping, but those forays outside the pocket rarely lead to explosive plays. Jones’s ceiling will be dictated by his physical evolution. If he can add a few mph to his fastball and bulk up a bit, he has the requisite accuracy and know-how to turn himself into a top-10 quarterback. If he doesn’t improve his physical skill set, he’ll never be a QB who carries an offense.

BIGGEST STRENGTH: ACCURACY
If Jones can put some loft on a throw, he doesn’t miss. It’s only when he has to really speed things up that he’ll skip a pass or force his receiver to make an acrobatic adjustment. But Jones mostly does a good job of avoiding those throws and sticking to the ones he knows he can make.

BIGGEST WEAKNESS: ARM TALENT
The good news is that we’ve seen plenty of quarterbacks strengthen their arms during their time in the league. Tom Brady certainly did it. The problem is that Jones has a longer way to go before we can consider his arm average for a starting QB.


24. Tua Tagovailoa
A MISTAKE-PRONE SINGLES HITTER who doesn’t handle pressure well.


BREAKDOWN
TuAnon is right about one thing: We’re all wrong about Tua’s deep ball. He is actually pretty good when he’s able to lead his receiver into open space downfield, and he is particularly accurate when throwing to receivers with defenders in a trailing position. But contrary to popular belief, those aren’t throws that require a surplus of arm strength. Timing and touch? Sure—but not pure arm strength. And the throws that do require that power are the ones that give Tua the most issues. His limitations pop up when he’s forced to throw with bodies around him, and if there isn’t room to step into those throws.

There just isn’t an obvious blue chip strength in Tua’s skill set. He clearly understands how to attack a coverage, but that’s a skill any high-level backup possesses. He can get rid of the ball if his pre-snap read is correct, but if the picture changes on him, he panics. He navigates the pocket well but freezes if things close in on him. His accuracy is limited to touch throws and quick passes. And for a quarterback who’s billed as a smart processor, he sure does make a lot of mental errors. Tua is just good enough to operate in a talent-heavy offense, but don’t expect much more than that.

BIGGEST STRENGTH: ACCURACY
Tua’s arm talent may be limiting, but the throws he’s good at … he’s really good at. We already covered the deep vertical routes into space that he makes with regularity, but his best throw might be the deep crosser, which will endear him to new teammate Tyreek Hill, the NFL’s toughest cover on those routes. Tua’s precision can be found on quick-hitting RPOs, which served as the foundation for the Dolphins offense in 2021.

BIGGEST WEAKNESS: PRE-SNAP
Tua needs to be a bit more skeptical. NFL defenses lie—the good ones, at least. Just because they’re lined up a certain way before the ball is snapped doesn’t mean they’re going to remain that way after. Tua still struggles to pick up on the defensive tells that would improve his in-play decision-making.


31. Zach Wilson,
AN UNDERSIZED BUT DYNAMIC TALENT who has to prove he can make plays inside the pocket.


BREAKDOWN
I know this is going to be triggering for Jets fans, but I can’t think of a more apt way to articulate my evaluation of Zach Wilson’s tape … he’s Sam Darnold 2.0.

Think of all the reasons to be optimistic about Wilson’s rookie season. Now think of the glaring areas where he needs improvement. They’re both awfully similar to what was being said of Darnold after his uneven debut season in New York. There were enough highlight reel throws to whet a QB-hungry fan’s appetite, but it’s hard to ignore that most of those plays came outside the pocket. Darnold had the same issue. There were some impressive instances of pocket presence, but even more examples of Wilson running into pressure. Same goes for Darnold. And then there’s the inconsistent accuracy. One play, Wilson is throwing a dot 30 yards downfield on the run; the next play, he’s sailing a throw to the flat.

I just don’t know what his most obvious strength is. He’s not accurate, he’s not a brain, he’s got a good arm, but it’s more flexible than powerful. He can make defenders miss, but he’s not a great athlete who’s going to outrun guys consistently. In a tight pocket, he almost looks like an oblivious beach patron about to get blindsided by a wave. There is clear arm talent there, but not much else to get excited about.

BIGGEST STRENGTH: ARM TALENT
Wilson doesn’t have an overly powerful arm, but it is capable of making some truly impressive throws. He generates a lot of whip, which allows him to make those off-platform throws that make it onto highlight reels. If he can figure out how to take advantage of his arm while throwing from the pocket—he’s young, so that’s certainly still on the table—he has a chance to live up to his pre-draft hype.

BIGGEST WEAKNESS: DECISION-MAKING
Wilson’s learning curve was always going to be steep. At BYU, he played behind a dominant offensive line and had receivers he could trust to win 50-50 balls. That provided him with a margin of error that no NFL quarterback will ever enjoy. Wilson is still adjusting to the rigors of playing the position professionally, and while there were some positive signs late in the season, there were far too many misreads and naive throws into coverage.

Kalli
Jun 2, 2001



Diva Cupcake posted:

Steven Ruiz does a QB rankings list on The Ringer and I can't argue with much of Zach's profile. The rankings are obviously questionable as he rated Geno Smith 22 and only Josh is in the top half of the league.

https://qbrankings.theringer.com/

First, lol



Second. What's the difference between Gamer and He Got That Dawg in Him?

Professor Funk
Aug 4, 2008

WE ALL KNOW WHAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN
I generally find The Ringer guys pretty annoying, but hard to disagree with much of anything there (re: Wilson or otherwise).

t a s t e
Sep 6, 2010

Josh at 5 isn’t criminal but I wouldn’t take Brady or Herbert over him

fartknocker
Oct 28, 2012


Damn it, this always happens. I think I'm gonna score, and then I never score. It's not fair.



Wedge Regret

Kalli posted:



Second. What's the difference between Gamer and He Got That Dawg in Him?

Different flavors of offensive language.

Amy Pole Her
Jun 17, 2002
Wow it's certainly something to put Geno Smith that high. Makes the Jameis spot almost reasonable. And I think the world of Herbie but he's not better than Josh Allen. C'mon.

Two negatives for Tua which is lol to me. Looks like he only gave 2 negatives to Tua and nobody else actually

t a s t e
Sep 6, 2010

Lil man is known for perhaps playing too much COD

fsif
Jul 18, 2003

I'm a homer and not smart enough to substantively refute it, but I really don't think Allen is "routinely fooled by pre-snap disguises."

WalletBeef
Jun 11, 2005

Josh is number 1 in our hearts.

Professor Funk
Aug 4, 2008

WE ALL KNOW WHAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN
Don't we need a 2022 thread????

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Ehud
Sep 19, 2003

football.

Professor Funk posted:

Don't we need a 2022 thread????

yeah https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=4011658

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