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81sidewinder posted:Finished the book - listened to the epilogue on the commute to work this morning. I have some thoughts, haha. (Full series spoilers) Egwene really is amazing and the best. There's a lot of fan speculation that she's the last queen of Manetheren, Eldrene. There's a short story about Demandred's backstory called River of Souls. It wasn't included because it broke up the flow of the story but you can consider it canon if you want. Now that you've finished though, you can join the full spoilers thread if you haven't already: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3897992
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Nov 10, 2023 19:11
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81sidewinder posted:The Foresaken were a missed opportunity. Too many of them, too many names, too little sense of who they were and what they wanted. Demmandred was an absolute badass in AMoL, but I wish we'd have built to that moment more. Lanfear's turn to 'help' Perrin was way too short as well. The false dragons and the foresaken should have been like 5-6 characters, not 15.
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Nov 10, 2023 19:28
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81sidewinder posted:Egwene actually being more of a main character Hugely improved the story, she went out like an absolute boss. Died like an absolute boss - the real main character of the story, imo Jordan set that up way back in TEotW. She died in the exact same way that the last queen of Manetheren did, and for the same reason. 81sidewinder posted:
So here's a fun thing. Back in the second book, we learn that the word Moridin means death/grave when we are told what the inscription on the Horn of Valere is. In the 4th book, Rand mentions that he had a translator for the old tongue with him in the doorway (our Mat PoV didn't need one), and that the translator seemed confused about some things that were said. Rand's answer for how to live after the last battle was actually "To live, you must become Moridin" instead of "To live, you must die" but it was just a mistranslation. For Rand having three women in his life, Jordan basically said that when he was younger he was essentially in a poly relationship with two women, and if he could do that, why couldn't the chosen one do one better? Not the best answer but w/e. All three absolutely know he's alive; Nynaeve is wondering why they aren't sadder at the funeral pyre but that's just because they know what's up. The epilogue likely would have been longer/more detailed, but it was word for word from an early draft of Jordan's (he typically did at least a dozen drafts if not more of each scene), with one Perrin part added in by Sanderson.
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Nov 11, 2023 06:56
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RembrandtQEinstein posted:
what the *gently caress* this is so good
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Nov 11, 2023 16:15
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pik_d posted:(Full series spoilers) RembrandtQEinstein posted:Jordan set that up way back in TEotW. She died in the exact same way that the last queen of Manetheren did, and for the same reason.  Wanted to start my re-read on book four, but guess I can't do that now RembrandtQEinstein posted:So here's a fun thing. Back in the second book, we learn that the word Moridin means death/grave when we are told what the inscripton on the Horn of Valere is. In the 4th book, Rand mentions that he had a translator for the old tongue with him in the doorway (our Mat PoV didn't need one), and that the translator seemed confused about some things that were said. Rand's answer for how to live after the last battle was actually "To live, you must become Moridin" instead of "To live, you must die" but it was just a mistranslation. Fired up to catch poo poo like this on my second turning RembrandtQEinstein posted:For Rand having three women in his life, Jordan basically said that when he was younger he was essentially in a poly relationship with two women, and if he could do that, why couldn't the chosen one do one better? Not the best answer but w/e. All three absolutely know he's alive; Nynaeve is wondering why they aren't sadder at the funeral pyre but that's just because they know what's up. The epilogue likely would have been longer/more detailed, but it was word for word from an early draft of Jordan's (he typically did at least a dozen drafts if not more of each scene), with one Perrin part added in by Sanderson. Re-read the epilogue after reading this comment. This makes me like it a lot more, and I teared up at the Rand moments instead of rolling my eyes about it
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Nov 12, 2023 21:21
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81sidewinder posted:
There's a whole podcast about this, WoT Spoilers, that points out cool things in each chapter. Well worth a listen, though there's hundreds of episodes since it's one per chapter. Really though, hop in the full-spoilers thread!!
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Nov 12, 2023 22:20
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Finished Towers, about to crack Memory. Excited and kinda bummed. I did save New Spring as a little good-bye reward because I figured I’d be sad to leave WoT.
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Nov 14, 2023 02:42
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How’d you like Towers compared to Gathering Storm?
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Nov 14, 2023 02:54
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mkay0 posted:How’d you like Towers compared to Gathering Storm? I definitely felt it was more cohesive with the Jordan-only books, though sometimes Mat still felt off, but less so than Gathering. Lots of pay-offs, maybe more than I thought I’d get before Memory. I’m really enjoying everything post-Crossroads. That book’s probably the biggest stinker of the series.
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Nov 14, 2023 03:22
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Soul Glo posted:I definitely felt it was more cohesive with the Jordan-only books, though sometimes Mat still felt off, but less so than Gathering. Lots of pay-offs, maybe more than I thought I’d get before Memory. Gathering Storm is one of my favorite books in the series, maybe in the top 3 with Shadow Rising and Lord of Chaos. The dark Rand stuff and its resolution is just so good.
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Nov 14, 2023 19:34
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I’ve finished it! I enjoyed it! Still have New Spring to read, as a proper goodbye to WoT. I asked for the compendium for Christmas, interested to see what’s in there.
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Nov 23, 2023 17:44
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Soul Glo posted:I’ve finished it! I enjoyed it! Congrats! Remember you have a whole big boy spoiler chat thread you can read too once you're done here!
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Nov 24, 2023 00:53
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Congrats! Yeah I’m working my way backwards through it now. Seems to be mostly about the show, which I’m gonna restart at some point.
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Nov 24, 2023 01:01
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I finally started reading the series a few months ago. Most of the way through book five now and I just want to complain that I don't think I have ever been this disappointed by the lack of a particular POV character in my life. But otherwise I am kicking myself for not have read these books earlier, really enjoying them.
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Nov 25, 2023 18:54
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I think I’m tapping out after book 8. I hear it gets worse/sloggy and I don’t know if I have the willpower to get through several more books where not much happens. Is there a recommended place to read a somewhat rich summary 9/10? Where should I pick it back up again? It’s entirely possible I’ll do a full read through, but I need a break for the moment.
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Jan 3, 2024 20:40
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Maybe read a summary of 9, then read the end of 9 yourself, then skip 10 and just start at 11.
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Jan 3, 2024 20:44
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The slog is real but imo overblown. It was a lot worse when you were waiting for new books in my opinion. The series pays off, and I'd probably try reading through it if you're that far.
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Jan 3, 2024 20:57
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I would actively recommend reading a cliff notes of Crossroads of Twilight but the rest after that are legit bangers.
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Jan 3, 2024 21:32
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Resdfru posted:The slog is real but imo overblown. It was a lot worse when you were waiting for new books in my opinion. The series pays off, and I'd probably try reading through it if you're that far. I read the books straight through across 2022 and 2023 and CoT was the only one that made me lose it for a bit.
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Jan 3, 2024 23:08
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Yeah books 7, 8, and 9 all have really good stuff and lots of characterisation that you'll miss if you skip them, the pacing is just a little slow. If you read summaries of those you'll definitely miss the context of a lot of character dynamics and even major world events. Book 10 builds up one major arc (Mat and Tuon, which is interesting) but otherwise it's definitely dull.
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Jan 3, 2024 23:14
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JOHN SKELETON posted:Yeah books 7, 8, and 9 all have really good stuff and lots of characterisation that you'll miss if you skip them, the pacing is just a little slow. If you read summaries of those you'll definitely miss the context of a lot of character dynamics and even major world events. Seconding this. CoT is the only really slow book in the series, and it's one that Jordan knew he made mistakes on later on. Fortunately the next book (Knife of Dreams) is one of the best in the series. Definitely read Winters Heart. There's a few slower parts in the first few chapters but once you make it past them it's pretty great. e: The slog was definitely a slog though back when you finished Winter's Heart and had to wait a little over two years for the next book, and then two and a half years for Knife of Dreams. Getting to zip right into the next book does make it a lot better. RembrandtQEinstein fucked around with this message at 05:51 on Jan 4, 2024 |
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Jan 4, 2024 05:48
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meanolmrcloud posted:I think I’m tapping out after book 8. I hear it gets worse/sloggy and I don’t know if I have the willpower to get through several more books where not much happens. Is there a recommended place to read a somewhat rich summary 9/10? Where should I pick it back up again? https://library.tarvalon.net/index.php?title=Book_Summaries The summaries for 9 and 10 are probably 6-8 sentances total on this site in the Brief Plot Summary sections - read those and decide for yourself if you're considering quitting. We all have different ideas of what to skip and what to keep, but you absolutely want to keep the Rand chapters and absolutely want to skip the Elayne chapters
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Jan 8, 2024 19:31
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81sidewinder posted:https://library.tarvalon.net/index.php?title=Book_Summaries Yeah - it's not that there aren't pacing issues, but those issues are largely contained to a set of plotlines - specifically Elayne, Perrin, and Faile. If you are considering dropping the books during the slog, I would first try just skipping those chapters (except when they intersect with Rand's), and reading a summary of the events later. CoT is the real offender though. Once you get through that man you are in for a good ride.
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Jan 8, 2024 20:49
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(Sorry if I misspell anything: I do audiobooks) Just finished Gathering Storm, and enjoyed it greatly, probably more than Knife of Dreams. I'm still rooting for Rand to merc the slave queen and company, but I can agree with his prioritization of the final battle. I didn't notice anything really off about Mat, but since Sanderson himself says he didn't nail it I'll definitely concede the common complaint. I still miss the Perrin from the older books. He was my favorite character but has been pretty blah since his big battle at home, though he still has his moments. I loved both Rand and Egwayne's stories this time. My two favorite moments were Rand on Dragonmount and Egwayne + Verrin (the brown/black). Just perfect heartstrings moments.
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Feb 12, 2024 19:22
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mastajake posted:(Sorry if I misspell anything: I do audiobooks) Perrin's issue was really Robert more than anything. RJ thought he was making three books, then six, which eventually ballooned to twelve by the time he died, and ultimately fourteen. (vague vibes spoilers, no plot spoilers) He ended up having Perrin advance too much in the first 3-4 books and had to pump the brakes, resulting in the backsliding and spinning of wheels. It is truly a shame because I loved Perrin at the beginning because of how cool he was, but his plots later on really grated on me because of how slow they progressed.
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Feb 12, 2024 19:38
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mastajake posted:I loved both Rand and Egwayne's stories this time. My two favorite moments were Rand on Dragonmount and Egwayne + Verrin (the brown/black). Just perfect heartstrings moments. Sanderson absolutely turns it up to 11 on these two characters
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Mar 3, 2024 20:03
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81sidewinder posted:Sanderson absolutely turns it up to 11 on these two characters Worth noting that Jordan wrote almost all of Egwene's parts in TGS, including the entirety of the Verin reveal chapter. Rand's parts were clearly plotted out and a few of them were written. The more "Hey I filled in huge gaps" bits show up in the next two books with a few characters in particular. Perrin had the least written out. Where he had to get was established, but how he got there wasn't as established. This worked out well because Perrin is the easiest to write out of the big 5 and I think Sanderson did a great job filling in gaps.
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Mar 4, 2024 03:43
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81sidewinder posted:
Here's a much-delayed reply to a much delayed-quote. Glad you agree re: Egwene. A lot of fans seem to think that she displays troublingly despotic tendencies as Amyrlin which I don't really disagree with, but that really didn't come through as something to care about as I was reading. Her ascent from captive to resident tower badass winning everyone's respect to vaporizing Seanchan by the hundreds was such an incredible crescendo that was probably my favorite arc in the series. Her capture was also a great shakeup in a storyline that was seriously dragging. Good point about the Forsaken. Even if there had been maybe two fewer of them things would have been easier to keep track of. Now I'm trying to remember as much about the series as I can, and starting to have a crazy idea that I might re-read the whole loving thing again soon even though it's only been like a year since I finished. In the time since, I read some of Sanderson's main series (Mistborn & Stormlight Archive) and liked those a lot, but the characterizations just aren't quite as good as WoT.
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Mar 8, 2024 16:14
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mastajake posted:
The main thing I noticed was that Sanderson had trouble writing the "young man who is reguarly griping about and baffled by the women (who he also chases)" vibe, and some of Mat's banter just felt misogynistic. It wasn't incredibly egregious, but it seemed like he leaned too hard on that part and it lost the playfulness. He definitely gets better at writing Mat. SPOILER MASTAJAKE DON'T READ THIS and him being anchored to one woman for the latter half of the series tidies that up a fair bit. I just forget when the Tuon prophecies and marriage come in, it's been a few years since I've read the books. Sanderson isn't known for great romantic writing, and this was early-ish in his career.
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Mar 16, 2024 19:01
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I cruised right through Path of Daggers and Winter's Heart and said "slog? what slog?" But Crossroads of Twilight...oof. These Elayne chapters might kill me.
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Mar 20, 2024 14:57
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Uncle Lloyd posted:I cruised right through Path of Daggers and Winter's Heart and said "slog? what slog?" But Crossroads of Twilight...oof. These Elayne chapters might kill me. You have to just settle down and decide to enjoy fifty four pages of a hot redhead taking a bath.
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Mar 20, 2024 15:28
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Yeah, a pregnant redhead in a bath should be right up my alley. Still boring.
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Mar 21, 2024 15:23
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I honestly think that entire sequence is hilarious, basically a farce in the stage sense.
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Mar 21, 2024 18:05
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