|
Is the contention here that maybe it wasn’t suicide because a cop killed himself in a very dumb way and it’s not believable that police would be dumb?
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2022 09:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 22:11 |
|
|
Even if the dude worked around death, there's not exactly a hard science to killing yourself. He might've performed all sorts of Machiavellian calculations in his head about how it was going to turn out, but then just hosed up the actual shooting because killing yourself with your own gun and making it look like you didn't do it yourself is loving hard and you only get one attempt at it
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2022 12:02
|
|
|
Well you might get two attempts if you really gently caress it up.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2022 13:57
|
|
|
Orange Devil posted:Is the contention here that maybe it wasn’t suicide because a cop killed himself in a very dumb way and it’s not believable that police would be dumb? Of course not but I still find the entire story a little odd. I think there's maybe a 20% chance we're not getting the whole story.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2022 14:09
|
|
|
If you google the independent autopsy report/investigation the odds of it being anything but suicide are infinitesimal.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2022 03:52
|
|
|
BiggerBoat posted:Of course not but I still find the entire story a little odd. I think there's maybe a 20% chance we're not getting the whole story. I assume he probably wasn't as clean as depicted by the show, but they don't want to poo poo on his family + legal reasons since he wasn't found guilty before his death.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2022 04:21
|
|
|
Orange Devil posted:Is the contention here that maybe it wasn’t suicide because a cop killed himself in a very dumb way and it’s not believable that police would be dumb? I thought the contention was that maybe it wasn’t suicide because these events remind us we don’t know what’s going on in police departments and maybe the BPD is even dirtier than we’re already aware?
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2022 04:34
|
|
|
Baltimore native Stav just put out a free comedy special and talks about the white trash dialect of the city. It reminded me of people talking about Jon Bernthal's accent work, and it sounds like he got it right. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNpkhX85yf0&t=947s
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2022 06:57
|
|
|
Lister posted:Baltimore native Stav just put out a free comedy special and talks about the white trash dialect of the city. It reminded me of people talking about Jon Bernthal's accent work, and it sounds like he got it right. Wow, that's uncanny
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2022 18:55
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2022 18:47
|
|
|
Image Rupert Bond "I can see that."
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2022 22:13
|
|
|
Well poo poo. Who ever knew I was so dangerous? Y'all best step back or step to then. Next time I go the library I'm gonna be whistling "farmer in the dell"
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2022 01:14
|
|
|
BiggerBoat posted:Well poo poo. Who ever knew I was so dangerous? You can’t make noise in the library!!!!
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2022 01:47
|
|
|
Suiter was shot with his service weapon yeah? Doesn't that make it obviously a suicide? Are we meant to believe some person bum-rushed him with no weapon, 2 shots were fired in the air, a third went into his head and then the perp ran out of sight all in the time it took his partner to arrive on the scene?
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2022 02:26
|
|
|
Looten Plunder posted:Suiter was shot with his service weapon yeah? Doesn't that make it obviously a suicide? Are we meant to believe some person bum-rushed him with no weapon, 2 shots were fired in the air, a third went into his head and then the perp ran out of sight all in the time it took his partner to arrive on the scene? Probably. But it's possible it went off in a struggle and/or an assailant never got a shot off or was able to reach his weapon. The more I think on it and read about it, though, suicide seems most likely. Problem is, the whole story has the stink of the BPD all over it so everyone just assumes they're lying. And not without reason.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2022 15:12
|
|
|
The entire last episode is a gut punch. Suiter's death is an enormous question mark, but his place in the narrative of the show is kind of telling. He's never shown to be anything other than a good cop; chasing down leads he doesn't have to, working with patrolmen to solve murders nobody else seems to care about, being respectful to witnesses and suspects. None of that matters, though, because he worked with corrupt cops, saw how corrupt they were, and said nothing to anyone in order to protect his job. Whether or not he personally was corrupt is irrelevant. He's there in Jenkins' fantasy, clapping and whooping along with all the other dirty cops. "No Good Cops In A Racist System" is a popular chant for a reason.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2022 16:38
|
|
|
Froghammer posted:The entire last episode is a gut punch.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2022 20:47
|
|
|
Seen through The Wire 3 or 4 times, didn't even know this existed until yesterday. Just finished episode 1. Are the guys that robbed the drug dealers apartment while is girlfriend was there and then went to the strip club also cops?
|
|
#
?
Jun 12, 2022 15:49
|
|
|
Are you kidding? Robbery is illegal!!! Cops wouldn't do that.
|
|
#
?
Jun 12, 2022 17:24
|
|
|
I watched Slow Hustle and it didn't really tell me much new stuff but it was a good summary of the non-fictionalized version of the events. It ends with them questioning whether or not it was a suicide but I still think it's by far the most likely scenario and I don't think the evidence to the contrary is very strong.
|
|
#
?
Jun 12, 2022 17:41
|
|
|
drunken officeparty posted:Seen through The Wire 3 or 4 times, didn't even know this existed until yesterday. Just finished episode 1. Yep, they're the "good guys"! Enjoy the rest of the series, it's fantastic and you're gonna get real mad about a lot of things!
|
|
#
?
Jun 12, 2022 18:21
|
|
|
David Simon finally put up his piece on Sean Suiter, and why they chose to portray his death the way they did. It is very long and goes into great detail. I find it impossible to disagree with his premise or poke holes in any of it. It is very thorough. https://davidsimon.com/sean-suiter/
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2022 22:37
|
|
|
MrMojok posted:David Simon finally put up his piece on Sean Suiter, and why they chose to portray his death the way they did. Thanks for this.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2022 23:31
|
|
|
BiggerBoat posted:Thanks for this. What do you think about his explanation? I had doubts about each of the suicide/murder by unknown assailant/murdered by other cops theories and found the whole thing very bizarre. But after reading this, IMO the suicide makes the most sense by far, and the other two just aren't believable at all.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2022 01:32
|
|
|
MrMojok posted:David Simon finally put up his piece on Sean Suiter, and why they chose to portray his death the way they did. It's long but it is a drat compelling read. He certainly argues his case well, and I really like this point that it would actually make his job a lot easier if Suiter was assassinated because it would make for a terrific ending to his tv series... but he's not making a straight drama, it's a dramatic retelling of actual events and he felt obligated to showcase what seemed the most likely explanation. Also goddammit I am mad as hell that his proposed series about the aftermath of the Lincoln assassination didn't get greenlit.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2022 01:38
|
|
|
I do think he's too harsh on people who think it was an assassination- I mean it's not unreasonable to think cops that dirty would be at least capable of it- but the actual evidence does seem to point towards suicide, especially given that he probably didn't know anything that would seriously shift the weight of the case
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2022 03:05
|
|
|
He really does hit on a key point regarding the assassination theory: even discounting all other factors, why would somebody who set out to deliberately murder Suiter show up WITHOUT a gun of their own and have to wrestle with Suiter to get it from him in order to kill him? Of course, I'm just basing my reaction on what information I've seen and my opinion is no more informed than any of the Internet/Amateur sleuths out there Simon mentions in his piece. Speaking of which, I love his little bit about Occam's Razor being dull 
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2022 03:36
|
|
|
Again it really boils down to who has any motivation to solid snake this guy? Everyone involved is already caught and most of them are cooperating for deals. Hersl had no interaction with Suiter, what does he give a poo poo to what he testifies to? So its Jenkins left who can somehow pull an assassin (who isnt caught up in any investigation himself and who will risk everything for a guy obviously going down) out of his rear end? Or is the idea that some rando Baltimore PD is just so dedicated to the dirty cop cause that they just go out and merc any witness in broad daylight with no concern for their own self preservation?
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2022 06:05
|
|
|
It doesn’t make any sense at all. Suiter was killed by his own weapon, and there doesn’t seem to be a shred of evidence to credibly suggest otherwise. So the assassination by cop theory means that the method chosen for assassination was to send someone unarmed after him in this alley, who then physically attacked him with the goal of shooting Suiter with his weapon while Suiter’s hand was on the grip/trigger and then vanishing before the other cop rounded the corner. If anyone hasn’t read Simon’s thing, please do.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2022 07:07
|
|
|
I'm still reading The Corner and it's very engrossing but I'm beginning to despair ever finding out how one of the background characters, a drug dealer called "Eggy Daddy" got his nickname.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2022 07:59
|
|
|
MrMojok posted:What do you think about his explanation? I had doubts about each of the suicide/murder by unknown assailant/murdered by other cops theories and found the whole thing very bizarre. But after reading this, IMO the suicide makes the most sense by far, and the other two just aren't believable at all. I had my doubts for a while but I don't see how it could be anything else besides a suicide. E: If it was a struggle, an immediate surprise threat or Sean was chasing down a suspect, it could have been an accidental discharge but how to explain the 4 gunshots then? Or him still gripping the radio? I don't see how a setup makes sense and if it was something like that, the partner most certainly would have had to been in on it. If he was murdered, it happened really loving fast and would have had to have come from a nearby building I'd think - or from someone that lived in one - since there was nowhere else to run or hide. Just such an odd suicide plan but I guess if it was impromptu like they say then Sean didn't have a ton of time to put it together and was kind of panicking. But, on the other hand, I would think a homicide detective would have known how to make it more believable. BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 15:34 on Jun 15, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2022 11:18
|
|
|
Just finished watching. A few thoughts. After the first episode I just gave up trying to follow any kind of timeline. As far as I'm concerned there's Jon Bernthal with beard (present) and without (past) and that's it. At first I didn't think I could see past Marlo, but that quickly went away and he was a Good Guy Gondo was stretching my suspension of disbelief at how someone like him was even a cop in the first place. Didn't care for his skinny partner guy who I don't know the name of either. The way Wayne was written was really good at showing him legitimately convinced he wasn't doing anything wrong. He knew he was doing things "against the rules" but in his mind it's all deserved. In his mind he was absolutely not a "dirty cop". Bail Bondsman guy was cool. Could have done without the couple scenes of the academy teacher ranting the writers thoughts about the war on drugs to the civil rights lady.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2022 00:41
|
|
|
Jerusalem posted:He really does hit on a key point regarding the assassination theory: even discounting all other factors, why would somebody who set out to deliberately murder Suiter show up WITHOUT a gun of their own and have to wrestle with Suiter to get it from him in order to kill him? Wasn't the idea raised in the documentary that Suiter came across someone hiding their drug stash, at least that's what the one witness alluded to. But then what happened to that stash, etc.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2022 00:49
|
|
|
Shageletic posted:Wasn't the idea raised in the documentary that Suiter came across someone hiding their drug stash, at least that's what the one witness alluded to. But then what happened to that stash, etc. Simon mentions the fact that big high profile cases like this tend to draw "witnesses" whose testimony basically doesn't fit any of the facts, whether because they're just intentionally lying or have just convinced themselves that what they are saying is the truth. He points out that video evidence and an on-the-spot canvassed eyewitness testimony (the parts of which didn't align with the then Commissioner's desired narrative were coincidentally left out of the paperwork) all show there was an 8-second window between Suiter running into the alley and the detective with him reaching a point where he could see him. It really does beggar belief that in that 8 seconds, a dealer hiding his stash managed to wrestle Suiter's gun from him without touching his wrist, shoot him, keep hold of his stash and escape down the alley and around the corner before Suiter had even finished hitting the ground.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2022 01:01
|
|
|
Ethics_Gradient posted:I'm still reading The Corner and it's very engrossing but I'm beginning to despair ever finding out how one of the background characters, a drug dealer called "Eggy Daddy" got his nickname. Just a generic warning: since the characters are all real people, don't google them if you don't want to prematurely find out how the story goes. Also, this realization hit me super hard at some point (spoiler regarding Ella Thompson's history): Ella's dead daughter, Andrea? She's the second dead girl they find in an alley in Homicide, the one shot in the back of the head. I didn't connect the pieces until The Corner broadly reveals what happened to Ella's daughter, then the name and timeline snapped into place and yeah, it's her. loving christ.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2022 18:14
|
|
|
Ethics_Gradient posted:I'm still reading The Corner and it's very engrossing but I'm beginning to despair ever finding out how one of the background characters, a drug dealer called "Eggy Daddy" got his nickname. I also highly recommend the show which, last I checked, was up for free on YouTUbe (in pretty bad quality mind you). It's really good, tighter than The Wire and uses a lot of the same actors from Simon's other shows in wildly different roles. Daniels is a crackhead and Freamon is a junkie.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2022 19:02
|
|
|
Suiter in the show was pretty sad but he was still part of it, so 🤷♂️ I'll give that article on his death a read. err fucked around with this message at 10:30 on Jun 19, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2022 10:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 22:11 |
|
|
I stopped watching after episode 4, did a full rewatch of the wire, and finished this off. Not sure if it was that or what, but the last two episodes felt very boring and uneventful. Like a huge drop of quality compared to the first four. Having read the book I expected Suiter's death to happen in ep 5, it all happened too quickly. I'll try to read the thread to see what everyone's reaction was during the last eps. Edit: some of the dialogue in the last 2 episodes really feels like david simon is going "fuckers, you missed the point of the wire? Let me make it more explicit" Mr. Nemo fucked around with this message at 04:06 on Jul 3, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2022 01:43
|
|
