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I’m a second-generation Latin American, born in the United States. Under juris sanguinis, I would like to claim Italian (and therefore EU) citizenship through my great-grandfather. Reason being that the United States sucks and I hate it and I want to leave. Please tell me about the process, how hard it is, and what to expect. TL;DR: my grandmother’s father was Italian. My dad has used this fact to get an Italian passport, though not Italian citizenship (yet?). We have living relatives in Italy, and my father keeps in contact with them and has visited the country several times, so we are not entirely unknown there. My siblings have tried getting Italian citizenship, but it proved difficult for the following reasons: - Our birth certificates had some typographical/clerical errors that annoyed some consulate or another - My dad needs to locate the documentation proving his juris sanguinis and that’s somewhere in Miami - The process requires lawyer assistance which is apparently a huge pain - Wait times are super long Adding to the complication is that my name and gender marker on my birth certificate do not match my current legal name and gender marker, so I can see some bureaucrat whining about it. Has anyone here claimed Italian citizenship through their ancestors? If so, did it work out for you? How hard was it? Any tips? (Also, I might have the option to claim Spanish heritage instead via my mom’s grandfather, but my family hasn’t explored that before. Maybe Spain would be easier?)
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Oct 17, 2022 16:27
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| # ? Apr 27, 2024 03:13 |
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Just a placeholder, I can give you advice in a bit. Edit: ok here we go Pollyanna posted:TL;DR: my grandmother’s father was Italian. My dad has used this fact to get an Italian passport, though not Italian citizenship (yet?). This is puzzling me. Passports are only rarely given to non-citizens. What does it say on the inside? He probably is an Italian citizen. Pollyanna posted:- Our birth certificates had some typographical/clerical errors that annoyed some consulate or another Yep there's usually errors on some of the documents. You may have to get some documents amended or the consulate doesn't care, it depends. Pollyanna posted:- My dad needs to locate the documentation proving his juris sanguinis and that’s somewhere in Miami His local consulate may be able to help him with this. Pollyanna posted:- The process requires lawyer assistance which is apparently a huge pain If you're handy with government paperwork and bureaucracy you can do it yourself. I never hired a lawyer. Pollyanna posted:- Wait times are super long oh yeah Pollyanna posted:Adding to the complication is that my name and gender marker on my birth certificate do not match my current legal name and gender marker, so I can see some bureaucrat whining about it. I don't think this will be an issue as far as getting citizenship. You may have to have you birth name and gender marker on your Italian passport, alas Italy is rather backwards on that stuff though things are changing quickly. Pollyanna posted:(Also, I might have the option to claim Spanish heritage instead via my mom’s grandfather, but my family hasn’t explored that before. Maybe Spain would be easier?) Worth looking into. Keep in mind every country's criteria for getting citizenship is wildly different. Pollyanna posted:Has anyone here claimed Italian citizenship through their ancestors? If so, did it work out for you? How hard was it? Any tips? It takes a good amount of time and effort but its absolutely doable and easier than naturalization. I'm very glad I did. As I'm sure you know the ability to move to Europe at will is incredibly valuable. The good news is it sounds like your father is already recognized as an Italian citizen. This means you should also meet the criteria. When I started the process I had to do a lot of research before I even knew if I qualified at all. The first thing you'll want to do is gather all of the information your family has on all the people in the line to your Italian ancestor. When and where they were born, died, had kids, married, immigrated, gained US citizenship. Have your dad dig up any paperwork he still has from when he applied for citizenship, see what your siblings who stated the process managed to dig up. Even just talk to your relatives and write down their best recollections on when and where events happened. I think ancestry.com has a free trial period and you can see what they have, I didn't find much useful for my family but you might have more luck. You'll want all this information because to get the birth certificates and other documents you'll need to know when and where each event happened. Here's a basic workflow of the entire process: 1. Research your family lineage. Make a list of the documents you need and what government agency you need to get them from. 2. Obtain official copies of all of the documents. 3. Apostille and notarize the documents as needed. Get them translated into Italian. 4. Meet with the consulate and hand everything over. 5. Wait.  6. Congratulations  There aren't really any downsides. You don't have to pay taxes or anything if you aren't in Italy. The only thing that might be an issue is if you want to join the US military or get a job that requires a very high level security clearance. There's a great internet forum that's dedicated to helping people do this, I'll find the link. I'm probably forgetting a lot, feel free to ask questions! Edit: Forum: https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/italiancitizenship/ Pekinduck fucked around with this message at 01:43 on Oct 20, 2022 |
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Oct 18, 2022 14:20
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Thank you for all the info! I can confirm that he has a normal Italian passport, so he is in fact a citizen. Makes me wonder what the documentation issue is now. (Edit: that may not be the case, according to my local Italian consulate: quote:Even if relatives of yours have submitted common ancestors’ documentation at another Italian Consulate prior to your application, you must resubmit all original documents (with the appropriate legalizations from other consulates etc.) At this office on the day of the appointment It looks like I can’t argue that I qualify as a descendant of my father. I have to argue that I qualify as a descendant of my great grandfather. That is loving stupid.) Lemme go over this info and take a look at the forum - thanks again! Pollyanna fucked around with this message at 16:09 on Oct 20, 2022 |
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Oct 20, 2022 13:19
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Okay, a little bit more info. Dad is a triple citizen. His most recent citizenship is his Italian citizenship which he got after I was born, 15~20 years ago. I would have been 12~17 years old, so before I turned 18. That time has since passed, of course, and it seems easier to get citizenship for a country when you’re underage than when you’re of age. Gotta go document hunting either way.
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Oct 20, 2022 14:42
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Pollyanna posted:Thank you for all the info! I think we found our documentation issue! The problem boils down to this: my father has proven and gained his Italian citizenship. As his direct descendant i.e. daughter, I argue that I qualify for Italian citizenship because my father is an Italian citizen. Italian nationality law seems to argue that proving my descent from my father is not enough, and that I need to prove my descent with the exact same lineage as my father did - all the way to my great grandfather. So, merely being the descendant of an Italian citizen is clearly not enough to claim Italian citizenship.  I don’t know why this is a thing.
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Oct 20, 2022 16:19
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Considering the same route OP. Good luck in your endeavors.
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Oct 20, 2022 23:48
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| # ? Apr 27, 2024 03:13 |
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That seems similar to what came up in the UK D&D thread about people trying to claim Irish citizenship through great-grandparents. Essentially they needed a parent or grandparent who was born a citizen in order to claim citizenship themselves, it didn't count that an ancestor acquired citizenship later in life (and after children were born) for them to be eligible. I don't really have anything else to add except to doublecheck whether your parents and grandparents really were not Italian nationals. Even if they never had documents proving it one of them still might have been a citizen. Good luck!
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Nov 5, 2022 22:08
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