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 Batman Returns Directed by Tim Burton released 1992  After 1989's Batman was a megahit Warner Brother naturally wanted a sequel. Tim Burton agreed only on the condition of having creative control of the film. Seeing as the mere prospect of them even making the movie was just about guaranteed to be a money printing press so they agreed. This was a decision they would come to regret. Given the creative control he was Burton then turned out a freaky, violent, horny rear end Batman movie that would be the subject of much controversy. The problem with that was the way the film was heavily marketed to children with toy lines, McDonald's Happy Meals, and various other merchandise as far as the eye could see. Because this the movie was heavily maligned at the time of its release and while a hit it was ultimately not as successful as the previous entry.  Michael Keaton having proved himself to the previously skeptical public reprised his titular role. Here he seems a little more weary of his duties as Batman and is much meaner than last time. Right with in the first few minutes of the film he uses the Batmobile to set a guy on fire. We also get to see a little more of him as Bruce Wayne this time around although in a way that very much reduces his dual personas.  Michelle Pfeiffer plays Selina Kyle, a meek personal assistant to a mean spirited rich industrialist. She eventually experiences a trauma that transforms her into a black clad creature of the night out for revenge. Her own revenge is violent and mean and it raises a lot of questions as to whether or not she's any more of a villain than Batman himself. It may not be an extremely nuanced take on feminism but the contrast between a rich man building super tech to fight literal circus freaks and a working poor woman who cobbles together a ragged BDSM suit to aim that same level of aggression towards men and symbols of their status is worth at least talking about.   Danny Devito is truly disgusting and unsettling as the Penguin which was another source of controversy. He lives in the sewer and is often filthy and spewing some kind of black bile from his mouth. He's also a creepy little pervert who can't be anywhere near a woman without making a sexual comment about her. He's gross and weird and bringing his absolute A-game to the movie.  Rounding out the list of villains is Christopher Walken as Max Schreck. Max is a wild haired billionaire industrialist who has a big plan to make lots of money defrauding the city he proclaims to love. He's also a violent misogynist. This character is definitely not a parody of any real person at all. NOPE. NOT AT ALL. Walken, like Devito, is firing on all cylinders here. His performance is a bit more subtle and he doesn't chew the scenery the way Danny Devito does but he's a particularly loathsome rear end in a top hat none the less and he really sells it. This is actually my favorite performance of his.  The production design here is top notch stuff. The movie was pretty much entirely shot on soundstages but in spite of that Gotham somehow seems much bigger while also seeming really cramped. This time around the city is stuffed with German expressionist statues and architecture. The film also uses this to make Gotham City a place out of time playing with deliberate anachronisms much like Tim Burton did just before this film in Edward Scissorhands. Batman: The Animated Series also used this to great effect as well, though swapping the oppressive air of fascist steel and concrete with art deco. Batman's suit gets a slight redesign discarding the false musculature for a more utilitarian look. We also get to see more of his gadgets. The late great special effects master Stan Winston was brought in to design the grotesque look of the penguin as well as his actual penguins.  Batman Returns is a kooky movie. It's gothy camp. It acknowledges that superhero comic books are by their very nature silly and I feel like that's been lost in the era where we've seen a constant stream of superhero movies for over a decade. They're too self serious and try to be more "grounded" at times. This film totally eschews any pretentions of realism and that is its greatest strength. It's just weird and bombastic and completely unlike any other Batman film. Tim Burton completely and totally swung for the fences here and we're all better off for it. Just on an aesthetic level this movie is an absolute gem. Apparently when he'd made this film Burton had planned a trilogy which would see Bruce Wanye finding a sort of peace within himself and quitting his role as Batman. Of course we never got that because of the public's reaction to Batman returns. However, this was no doubt an inspiration for the ending of Christopher Nolan's Batman saga years later.  Previous movies of the month. CPL593H fucked around with this message at 00:33 on Dec 18, 2022 |
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Dec 7, 2022 05:14
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Hell yeah
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Dec 7, 2022 05:31
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I never noticed that Batman Returns was maligned or controversial because I was 8 years old so to me it was like the greatest thing I'd ever seen. It's a great addition to any non-traditional Christmas movie list alongside Die Hard and Gremlins and all the rest.
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Dec 7, 2022 17:29
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This was the fist Batman movie I had ever seen as a kid. When someone mentions Batman this classic is the fist thing that comes to mind. I'm not a huge comic book movie fan, but this is one of my favorites movies from my childhood. One of Danny DeVito's best performances too.
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Dec 8, 2022 05:12
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I watched Batman 89 and Returns yesterday thanks to this. 89 still slaps but Returns is just better in nearly every way imo. Devito's performance is so delightfully gross. I paid a little more attention to Walkens performance this go around and yeah its pretty great too. Pfeiffer hangs with them all on the unhinged performance front as well. Everyone talks about her in the catsuit which yea is fire, but she does give an incredible performance that rivals the rest of the cast's. I love the set design so much. I wish every Batman movie was set in this Gotham.
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Dec 8, 2022 17:50
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Still! It could be worse! My nose could be gushing blood!!
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Dec 8, 2022 17:54
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CelticPredator posted:Still! It could be worse! That scene is so amazing. I love all the employees pretending to not be grossed out by devito chomping raw fish
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Dec 8, 2022 17:58
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Yea the political satire aspect of Penguin running for mayor is something I appreciate a lot more as an adult. I rewatched Batman last night in preparation to watch Returns later this month and I was reminded that it's also a surprisingly dark and violent film. People getting shot left and right, the guy getting burnt to a crisp by Joker, the poison gas etc. etc.
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Dec 8, 2022 18:52
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Basebf555 posted:Yea the political satire aspect of Penguin running for mayor is something I appreciate a lot more as an adult. I cracked up at the newscaster getting the laughing poison then next time we get a news update the newscasters aren't all prettied up and have pimples and frizzy hair. It's the little things
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Dec 8, 2022 18:58
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The scene between Catwoman and Batman at Max’s Christmas party where they both realize who each other is is the best acted scene in a Batman, Jokers be damned. Their chemistry in this movie was off the goddamn charts.
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Dec 8, 2022 19:22
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CelticPredator posted:Still! It could be worse! That's one of my favorite gags in any movie.
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Dec 8, 2022 21:05
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It so good. I love that Frank Reynolds is basically penguin but more deranged. This scene always reminded me of Batman Returns https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAxpwEx-VcY
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Dec 8, 2022 21:23
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Basebf555 posted:Yea the political satire aspect of Penguin running for mayor is something I appreciate a lot more as an adult. Some of the themes are pretty dark as well like child abandonment which Penguin's character resonates and shows the consequences of such an act. When he sends his gang out to kidnap the first born that kind of rattled me as a kid. We also can't forget his death at the end with his penguins dragging his body into the water like morbid pallbearers. Hot Take. Michelle Pfeiffer is the greatest Catwoman of all time and I'm including TV and animated depictions.
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Dec 9, 2022 02:05
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CelticPredator posted:It so good. I love that Frank Reynolds is basically penguin but more deranged. I just remembered that the actor who plays Mac's father was a member of the Red Triangle Gang in this movie. Dong Jones also appears as a member of the gang in one of his earliest film appearances. Justin Godscock posted:Some of the themes are pretty dark as well like child abandonment which Penguin's character resonates and shows the consequences of such an act. When he sends his gang out to kidnap the first born that kind of rattled me as a kid. I don't think you'll get much argument on that one although I really like Eartha Kitt not just as Catwoman but in general so it's a tough call for me. Everyone is just great in this movie. What I love about Christopher Walken here is that he's better known for playing unhinged characters and in the middle of this movie where all kinds of wild poo poo is happening he's just cold and calculating sort of in contrast to what the other villains are doing. CPL593H fucked around with this message at 02:49 on Dec 9, 2022 |
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Dec 9, 2022 02:46
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I just saw this on the big screen! I mean I've seen it a lot, including 30 years ago when it was released. But still it was neat. This is still probably my favorite Batman movie and the soundtrack is one I've listened to many many times, some of Elfman's best work. (In particular the whole sequence of Selina flipping out is so good.) A lot of scenes in this are like something out of a silent movie- there is a lot of dialogue at times, but then you've got bits like Batman spying on the Penguin in the hall of records, or the subsequent scene of Penguin visiting his parents' grave, and the staging has that expressionistic purity to it. I've never been fully clear on how much control Burton actually had- there were apparently some major changes to the script (Robin was supposed to be in this at some point, coming into the scene as the mechanic who fixes the Batmobile, and they'd gone so far as wanting Damon Wayans for the part?) It's also worth noting the script is by Daniel Walters, known also for Heathers, which explains some of the more acidic bits of satire. (As one reviewer pointed out, Max Schreck at one point casually brackets the Gulf of Tonkin incident and the Reichstag fire.) But yeah, what's great about this film is it's just these demented characters pinballing off each other- the actual plot is kinda loopy (though it holds together better than i remember) but there's always something happening going forward and it just keeps barreling towards further tragedy.
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Dec 10, 2022 07:05
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Maxwell Lord posted:I just saw this on the big screen! I mean I've seen it a lot, including 30 years ago when it was released. But still it was neat. This is still probably my favorite Batman movie and the soundtrack is one I've listened to many many times, some of Elfman's best work. (In particular the whole sequence of Selina flipping out is so good.) Robin and the script changes were a thing with the first movie if I recall correctly. A special feature on the Batman (89) DVD has some little bits of unused script with rough animatics and one of them touched on the Robin subplot. Burton definitely pulls from the silent era here (and of course a lot of his aesthetics were heavily inspired by German Expressionism). Max Schreck is even named after the actor who played Nosferatu. In any case it's very obvious that Tim Burton had a much greater level on control here than he did on the first movie.
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Dec 10, 2022 19:38
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MacheteZombie posted:I love the set design so much. I wish every Batman movie was set in this Gotham. Returns has risen in my estimation since I first saw it, because there's a load of sexual, political and class subtext that went over my head at the time, and if anything has become even more relevant today. Pfeiffer's furious, mercurial, revenge-driven Catwoman is far more interesting than Nolan's money-motivated one, even if the latter is more true to the comic.
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Dec 11, 2022 18:04
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Pfeiffer's Catwoman is clearly an influence on some characters like Harley Quinn (at least post-BTAS when they started leaning more on her as her own person rather than the Joker's moll.) It's like the idea of a liberated woman going crazy but in a way where you kinda wanna root for her. Critics of the time placed her in the context of the feminist backlash that was taking place around this period, but it's hard not to like her. Very much the antiheroine of her own story. (And of course Pfeiffer kills it.) Speaking of which Pfeiffer apparently learned a few whip skills: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaWwG41_A9k
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Dec 12, 2022 06:26
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I distinctly remember being 14 years old, seeing Penguin devouring raw fish and biting that guy's nose off, and thinking, "Finally, someone is treating Batman REALISTICALLY."  And Selena's "resurrection" with all the cats gnawing on her fingers while she's convulsing on the pavement was and is insanely creepy. I think that if all memory of this movie was erased and you just dropped it onto HBO Max in 2022 with no context, people would be calling it a "brutal takedown of superhero movies" and compare it to stuff like "The Boys."
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Dec 13, 2022 01:24
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We rewatched this last week. Struck me how little Batman is actually in it. Definitely feels like Penguin is the protagonist, which I think is to its benefit. It's almost a moot point to say how good DeVito is, but I was amazed at how much he was able to do with the role. Otherwise the main takeaway I had was that this is one weird movie in the best possible way. You can tell Burton was written a blank check and just threw everything he had at the wall, I burst out laughing at the newsie just after the incredibly technologically complicated Batmobile, loved the character design of Penguin's parents in particular Cobblepot Sr's monocle, the scrum of "high trousers fast talking" journalists, Penguin's utterly insane underground layer with the penguins swimming in the background, the giant rubber duck, the umbrella that's a gun, Catwoman literally has nine lives, etc. One thing this movie really gets right is the interpersonal reactions between the characters. DeVito and Walken have such incredible chemistry I was surprised this is the only film they've ever done together. You could probably fry an egg off of the scenes Keaton and Pfeiffer share together, probably not surprising considering their off-screen relationship but it's so goddamned good and compelling to watch I almost wish the entire movie was just about them with Catwoman as the primary antagonist. Few female supporting characters in these kinds of movies have been as good as Pfeiffer is in this. She's hot as gently caress both pre and post-transformation and acts the absolute poo poo out of every scene, in particular her first scene in her apartment post-transformation and the final scene between her and Wayne which I thought was heartbreaking.
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Dec 13, 2022 21:24
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Adrianics posted:Struck me how little Batman is actually in it. I've always said that Batman '89 is a very good Batman movie directed by Tim Burton. Batman Returns is a very good Tim Burton movie that occasionally happens to have Batman in it.
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Dec 15, 2022 21:00
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Haven’t seen this action in like 20 years so yeah I’ll give it another spin. Is there an archive of past movies of the month?
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Dec 16, 2022 16:51
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DeimosRising posted:Haven’t seen this action in like 20 years so yeah I’ll give it another spin. Is there an archive of past movies of the month? Fran used to keep a letterboxd list up to date, I should make a copy and update it. I'll find some time this weekend and link it.
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Dec 16, 2022 17:28
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didn't have much to update so it was quicker than i expected: https://letterboxd.com/machetez/list/cined-movie-of-the-month/
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Dec 16, 2022 19:14
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Payndz posted:Batman and his demented rogues' gallery need an OTT gothic canvas like the Gotham of the Burton films, where the city itself is as much a character as the people. The Gotham in Nolan's films was just any old modern city, which is kinda boring, and Schumacher's was a neon-vomit cartoon. Nolan's films are entertaining and I don't dislike them but I am kind of sick of them. The problem with a lot of comic book movies especially now and especially that series is they try to be grounded. But superhero comic books are the exact opposite of grounded. Batman is a guy in a Halloween costume whose main nemesis is an actual clown. Burton and the writers of this film recognized how silly that world is and decided to take it to it's full extreme. In the years since this movie came out people have become increasingly obsessed with comic books (and most especially Batman) being completely joyless grimdark slogs. Maxwell Lord posted:Pfeiffer's Catwoman is clearly an influence on some characters like Harley Quinn (at least post-BTAS when they started leaning more on her as her own person rather than the Joker's moll.) It's like the idea of a liberated woman going crazy but in a way where you kinda wanna root for her. Critics of the time placed her in the context of the feminist backlash that was taking place around this period, but it's hard not to like her. Very much the antiheroine of her own story. (And of course Pfeiffer kills it.) Catwoman is supposed to be a villain here but if you break down what she does her quest isn't much different from Batman's. The real difference is that his parents murder was a random act of violence where as her own murder was a result of her being a member of the working poor, a woman, and basically an invisible person. MacheteZombie posted:didn't have much to update so it was quicker than i expected: https://letterboxd.com/machetez/list/cined-movie-of-the-month/ Oops, I forgot to add that to the OP as usual. I edited it in there.
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Dec 18, 2022 00:48
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CPL593H posted:Nolan's films are entertaining and I don't dislike them but I am kind of sick of them. The problem with a lot of comic book movies especially now and especially that series is they try to be grounded. But superhero comic books are the exact opposite of grounded. Batman is a guy in a Halloween costume whose main nemesis is an actual clown. • Actual clown • Penguin-themed mobster with lethal umbrellas • Guy in question-mark bodysuit who performs puzzle-themed crimes • Jewel thief in fetish catsuit • Man in freezer spacesuit who can only survive in sub-zero temperatures • Non-metaphorical split personality who decides everything with coin flips • Girlfriend of aforementioned clown who dresses like a harlequin and has giant springs on her feet • Luchador with steroid tanks on his back • Woman who is part-plant and emits mind-controlling pheromones These are not people who belong in some boring glass-box city that looks suspiciously like Chicago.
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Dec 18, 2022 01:11
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Payndz posted:I'm not even a massive Batman fan, but I know through cultural osmosis that his major enemies are: This makes me wonder how much of Joel Schumacher's failure to pull off the wacky is a result of him just not being as good as 80s-90s Tim Burton and how much of it was the studio trying to make sure they didn't have another Batman Returns. They're campy and goofy but they have none of the charm of the two Tim Burton movies. Everything seems forced and the performances are nowhere near as good. The Schumacher movies have aged like milk too. They're as aggressively of their time as something like Hackers. The Burton films look and feel like they exist out of time.
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Dec 18, 2022 01:29
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I feel like Schumacher didn’t quite fully commit to the bit- for all of Batman and Robin’s goofiness there are still some very flat scenes and attempts at human drama.
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Dec 18, 2022 03:10
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The Executive handwringing over how sexy the film was was wasted imo, because im pretty sure most kids missed the obvious sexual tension and just focused on how cool Batman looked and how gross the penguin was. At least I did!CPL593H posted:This makes me wonder how much of Joel Schumacher's failure to pull off the wacky is a result of him just not being as good as 80s-90s Tim Burton and how much of it was the studio trying to make sure they didn't have another Batman Returns. They're campy and goofy but they have none of the charm of the two Tim Burton movies. Everything seems forced and the performances are nowhere near as good. The Schumacher movies have aged like milk too. They're as aggressively of their time as something like Hackers. The Burton films look and feel like they exist out of time. I still say Batman Forever is an excellent Batman movie, and I will always love it for doing away with the "Bruce is the mask" nonsense. And honestly for all that they hated each other, TLJ and Carrey were phenomenal together
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Dec 18, 2022 15:09
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McCloud posted:The Executive handwringing over how sexy the film was was wasted imo, because im pretty sure most kids missed the obvious sexual tension and just focused on how cool Batman looked and how gross the penguin was. At least I did! I was six years old when it came out and I loved this movie. Obviously all the sex stuff flew right over my head. My take was exactly what yours was. My parents were also a lot more permissive about movies so they ended up getting me a copy of it for Christmas. As for the whole "Bruce is the mask" stuff I think the Keaton movies pretty well threw that in the trash first. Half the time we see him in the batcave he's not even in the suit and there's a moment with Max in this film where he straight up does a Batman and says something along the lines of "I'm going to stop you." when he finds out Max's plan for the "power plant".
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Dec 18, 2022 23:48
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It's rare, and almost unheard of now 30 years later, for movies with this kind of budget to end up so weird and unique. That alone makes this worth watching, to say nothing of the fact that it's also really good. This is a top three superhero movie for sure and far and away the best Batman movie. Burton went all-in on the Metropolis inspired design for Gotham and I don't think anyone else has pulled it off better. The principle cast all give some career best performances and most importantly I don't think the movie is ever boring. It's a joy to watch from start to finish.
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Dec 19, 2022 05:43
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CPL593H posted:I was six years old when it came out and I loved this movie. Obviously all the sex stuff flew right over my head. My take was exactly what yours was. My parents were also a lot more permissive about movies so they ended up getting me a copy of it for Christmas. As for the whole "Bruce is the mask" stuff I think the Keaton movies pretty well threw that in the trash first. Half the time we see him in the batcave he's not even in the suit and there's a moment with Max in this film where he straight up does a Batman and says something along the lines of "I'm going to stop you." when he finds out Max's plan for the "power plant". Either it went over our heads or we internalized it and it turned us gay. Either or! I feel like the Keaton version doesn't differentiate between Batman and Bruce, dude sleeps hanging upside down after all. Forevers version still separates the two, and Batman is an act or a role he plays, but not who he is.
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Dec 19, 2022 08:31
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CPL593H posted:As for the whole "Bruce is the mask" stuff I think the Keaton movies pretty well threw that in the trash first. Half the time we see him in the batcave he's not even in the suit and there's a moment with Max in this film where he straight up does a Batman and says something along the lines of "I'm going to stop you." when he finds out Max's plan for the "power plant". I don't necessarily agree with this. The Burton movies pretty quickly establish Bruce as a power broker in Gotham, to the point that he hosts a party at Wayne Manor that attracts reporters, the district attorney, the commissioner of police and the mayor. But it's always put across as him using his financial and political power ... and then in Returns, Schreck calls him out for what he is, an empty suit. Then Bruce goes "I'll loving show you what I am" and goes full Batman on his rear end by saying he's going to find the connection between Schreck, Cobblepot and the Red Triangle Circus Gang. Maybe my memory's off. I probably owe it a re-watch. I know my girlfriend hasn't seen it, we could do the two Burton Batmans the next time we get together on Tuesday night.
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Dec 19, 2022 08:49
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McCloud posted:Either it went over our heads or we internalized it and it turned us gay. Either or! It might have been both.
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Dec 19, 2022 23:35
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This was the first movie I saw in theaters, or at least remember seeing. But as others said - Batman doesn't appear until about 20 minutes in, which is pretty daring. But I think that's because the movie is more of an exploration of Catwoman's character, as well as the penguin. Here's this woman who is taken advantage of and objectified until she is literally thrown out of a window. Batman's role here is to explore the difficult dynamic between the two types of justice that Batman and Catwoman represents. She's very chaotic and is ultimately about revenge. It's really my favorite Batman and maybe superhero movie because it takes real chances with the superhero movie formula.
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Dec 27, 2022 03:20
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D'oh! I'm sorry I missed this movie of the month. Indulge while we're still not too far away from December! One thing that's a little underappreciated about this movie is that the fight choreography is pretty awesome, easily the best in the Batman movies. You can tell they really thought long and hard about how to create compelling fight scenes when everyone's in these weird costumes (Batman can't even move his head!) and they pulled it off nicely. Batman's bouts with Catwoman are particularly interesting because its one of the few times in these movies he's going toe-to-toe with someone his equal, he's usually dispatching mooks or facing off with someone way huger than him. Batman himself isn't in it really all that much, but he casts a shadow over the whole movie sort of like the shark in Jaws (really, with so many villains Batman seems to take on the antagonist role). It also works the whole "Batman's rogues gallery are reflections of himself" to great effect. It definitely feels like it's a movie "about Batman" even if he doesn't have the most screentime. McCloud posted:I still say Batman Forever is an excellent Batman movie, and I will always love it for doing away with the "Bruce is the mask" nonsense. And honestly for all that they hated each other, TLJ and Carrey were phenomenal together Not too long ago I saw Justice League (the regular cut) and Batman Forever back-to-back on a lazy sunday and Batman Forever was ALOT more enjoyable. At least it's got a catchy score and an all-star cast hamming it up.
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Jan 5, 2023 23:06
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I'd put Forever as my personal #2 of the Burton-era Batmovies behind Returns, largely because Carrey just goes for it as Riddler. (Weirdly, the version in my mind is the PAL DVD, where his performance is even more manic because of the 4% speed increase and pitch shift. When I watched the Blu-Ray, it felt like he'd toned it down a notch.)
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Jan 6, 2023 09:58
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