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Robot Bastard
Jul 14, 2004

by Ozma

quote:

eXXon came out of the closet to say:
Yeah, but the fact that they gave such a lame strategy for the recapturing of the most badass fortress ever is really irritating.
I agree that for the most powerful Death Star Rip-Off in the galaxy, this key piece in the defense strategy of the entire Empire seems awfully easy to take over.

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Halverine
May 26, 2004

Endsay ookhay
Can you believe this motherfucking poo poo?

http://a.scarywater.net/ca/logh eps 36 - Central Anime (5f561212) .avi.torrent

Jabu
Feb 11, 2004

There are no heroes left in man
This motherfucking poo poo is unbelievable!

The Therminador
Mar 31, 2004

Wow, I had all but forgotten about this awesome piece of dialogue at the end of ep 36, between Lohengramm and the Phezzan representative. Amazing how it was able to show the extent of how each character was toying with the other...
I love LoGH.

Precambrian Video Games
Aug 19, 2002



Hay, out of curiosity let's have a quick poll on favourite characters. I'd have to say Oberstein for the cold, calculating deviousness and Reuentahl for the smooth, almost inhuman deviousness. Wait, I spot a pattern here.

Man of Wax
May 20, 2003

quote:

eXXon came out of the closet to say:
Reuentahl
Wins due to the Norio Wakamoto effect. If he were played by any other actor Oberstein would my pick as well. It's too bad for the Alliance that they have only one worthwhile personality on their side (Yang). If you want deviousness though, Ruppert Kesserlink has to be up there. He is not as much of a bastard as Oberstein (let's kill millions of people for political gain!), but he is a tyrant in the making and he clearly wants to kill his dad.

pyo
Nov 18, 2003

... !
I'd say Reinhard Von Lohengramm because he feels more real than many of the other characters in the series, although his sister complex can bring his character down quite fast if the enemy knows what to hit. He also wears a mantle and enjoys the fights with Yang Wenley.

Daryl Surat
Apr 6, 2002

I don't care what you say about this post, but if anyone steps on my bunion, I'll kill them!
Paul von Oberstein is my favorite character. But Oberstein isn't a bastard, nor is he devious or even evil.

He's the ultimate pragmatist (think Jack Bauer from 24, only without the one-man army capability), doing exactly what needs to be done as dictated by the Overall Value Principle in order to assure Reinhard's success. If said action is an unpopular or immoral one, Oberstein will not hesitate to take all the blame himself, regardless of whether he was responsible or not. And Oberstein would give his life for Reinhard's in a heartbeat without hesitation. Go back and watch the first few minutes of episode 26; Oberstein was ready to die in Reinhard's stead right then and there.

All these things he would do without expecting anything in return, not even gratitude (or even acknowledgment) from the people he's doing it for. And this is sort of a spoiler but not really (I'll tag it anyway), but unlike a lot of the other characters, Oberstein doesn't have any ulterior motives or personal ambitions behind his actions. He knows he himself can't lead ("But I have no such talent."), and he really is doing everything for the sake of Reinhard's success. The same cannot be said for even Kircheis.

Paul von Oberstein is more loyal and dedicated than anyone, no matter the personal cost (has no friends or lovers). I've always liked unwaveringly loyal adjutant characters that were that way not out of love but ideology--so more along the lines of Hoji Sadojima, not Riza Hawkeye--and Oberstein is the pinnacle of that. But much like the characters in LoGH, fans of the show almost all either dislike him or "love to hate" him, even though Oberstein's unflinching loyalty to the cause is very much akin to that of The Boss or Revolver Ocelot from Metal Gear Solid, whom fans at the very least respect.

And Kaneto Shiozawa beats out Norio Wakamoto, guys. :hellnaw: :nyd:

Daryl Surat fucked around with this message at 23:36 on Jul 8, 2005

Man of Wax
May 20, 2003

quote:

Daryl Surat came out of the closet to say:
Paul von Oberstein is my favorite character. But Oberstein isn't a bastard, nor is he devious or even evil.

He's the ultimate pragmatist (think Jack Bauer from 24, only without the one-man army capability), doing exactly what needs to be done as dictated by the Overall Value Principle in order to assure Reinhard's success.
Whether or done in the name of pragtasim or otherwise, the slaughter of millions of innocents for the political gain of one man is immoral. It really doesn't matter how rational he is, Oberstein clearly holds human life in contempt and deserves to be hated for it.

I think comparing him to Hawkeye or Boss Borot is an of the purest reductionism. So much so that the analogy is essentially meaningless. Sure, they're all sidekicks, but that's about it. They have entirely motives and means.

Man of Wax fucked around with this message at 21:33 on Jul 8, 2005

Robot Bastard
Jul 14, 2004

by Ozma
On the other hand, Oberstein seems to be more loyal to the idea of Emperor Reinhardt, than to the man himself. He would (and, in fact, did) say "the Emperor has said that he doesn't want me to do this, but he doesn't know how important it is that it be done. I will do it anyway and not tell him. It's okay, because it will make him be Emperor, and that's more important than anything else."

I could see Reinhardt deciding that he doesn't want to be Emperor after all, and Oberstein blackmailing him into doing it anyway...

Oberstein reminds me of a quote, I think it was from "The X-Files" about Fox Mulder.

quote:

He's one of the most dangerous men in the world. Not because he does what he thinks is right, but because he does what he thinks fate forces him to do.

Daryl Surat
Apr 6, 2002

I don't care what you say about this post, but if anyone steps on my bunion, I'll kill them!

quote:

Fabulous secrets were revealed to me when Man of Wax said:

Whether or done in the name of pragtasim or otherwise, the slaughter of millions of innocents for the political gain of one man is immoral. It really doesn't matter how rational he is, Oberstein clearly holds human life in contempt and deserves to be hated for it.

While I conceded that Oberstein's decision-making process does not consider morality as a factor (so perhaps "amoral" instead of "immoral" would be more appropriate), you're making it sound like he actively ordered the deaths of those people, which isn't the case. There were only two options regarding that war, and neither were good: 1. allow millions to die by refusing to stop an attack by the opposition, thus ending the war sooner due to overwhelming popular support (which for civil wars is important) of the side that DOESN'T obliterate entire planets on the whim of their leader; 2. save those people which would result in the war continuing at its current rate--thus resulting in the deaths of several times more people than that which was saved--with a significant possibility that the wrong side would win. BOTH options are bad, but one is less bad than the other. Those really were the only two options, and the overall value of option number one is greater than that of option two, so that's what Oberstein sided with. That's all it is. It's not a "mwa ha ha, the lives of many are insignificant if it means the furthering of my agenda" mentality like what some of the other faction leaders in the series have.

Oberstein knows that anyone with the degree of power than Reinhard seeks must inevitably be faced with making several such hard decisions. Per his character, Oberstein believes that unlike how it was during the Goldenbaum reign (which he despises), it would be far better to have someone OTHER than the leader make such harsh decisions so as not to adversely affect the leader's decision-making, since once you do one bad thing it becomes easier to do more and more. This is a job that nobody wants, but there are times when it still needs to be done, and so it is that Oberstein takes tasks like this on a regular basis. Informing Annerose at the end of season 1, for one. And though this is debatable, in that same episode when Reinhard says to the effect that "I've already killed so many people so what's the big deal in killing one more family" and Oberstein responds "if that's what you think, then fine," I personally don't think there's some dark Emperor Palpatine "I'm turning you to the Dark Side" intent in the statement. I think Oberstein was slightly let down, because even though he understands it's necessary to have people like him that are willing to do "dirty work" provided it's in the nation's best interests, he'd prefer that the person in charge not be it. This is why he understands the necessity of people like Kircheis or Mariendorf even though they're the opposite of him and never ever agree with his advice.

Episode 36 was just released. Suffice it to say that this matter is not yet resolved in the story.

quote:

Man of Wax spoke heresy against the Builder by saying:
I think comparing him to Hawkeye or Boss Borot is an of the purest reductionism. So much so that the analogy is essentially meaningless. Sure, they're all sidekicks, but that's about it. They have entirely motives and means.

I specifically said the ones that were loyal out of ideology and not love or friendship. The character Hoji in Rurouni Kenshin sides with Shishio because he truly believes Shishio is the one who's going to change the country, to the point where Hoji allows his fingers to be broken and offers his hand in reparation for actions he didn't even commit, because he believes it's better that he take the blame than the leader. That's the kind of loyalty I'm talking about, which is the same degree of loyalty Oberstein has, and it's way more than just being a "sidekick."

Daryl Surat fucked around with this message at 23:30 on Jul 8, 2005

Precambrian Video Games
Aug 19, 2002



quote:

Daryl Surat came out of the closet to say:
Paul von Oberstein is my favorite character. But Oberstein isn't a bastard, nor is he devious or even evil.

He's the ultimate pragmatist (think Jack Bauer from 24, only without the one-man army capability), doing exactly what needs to be done as dictated by the Overall Value Principle in order to assure Reinhard's success. If said action is an unpopular or immoral one, Oberstein will not hesitate to take all the blame himself, regardless of whether he was responsible or not.

He certainly is devious, depending on what you define him as deviating from. From Reinhard's instructions, certainly, and I think his propensity for cold-hearted intrigue further qualifies him. But yes, it is that ruthless efficiency that I like best. No need for miracles like Yang or any of the gimmicks displayed by other admirals ( Mittermeier's BLAZING SPEED or Schenkopp's AXE WIELDING ROSE KNIGHTS OF DOOM ), just an exacting mind and an awesome false eye.

Speaking of which, I am continuing to be displeased by the way the series is going (eps 70+), the Alliance forces keep getting one deus ex machina after the other, some being just plain nonsensical (hey look! solar wind! except it only happens to buffet and destroy imperial ships!) while I've all but forgotten about what made Reinhard such a great leader in the first place, since he is perpetually asking for advice and handing out assignments to his subordinates. Not that such actions are unexpected, but all the same, he's been more of an imposing figurehead than a crafty strategist.

Another thing I don't really understand about Yang's vendetta against the Emperor, possibly due to my having watched the first half of the series more than 2 years ago: in the early going, Yang was waxing philosophical about his role in fighting the Empire and then Reinhard. Lately, however, he seems to be all about DEMOCRACY and FREEDOM and (partly due to the lovely subs) really doesn't seem to have got across exactly why he was so motivated to fight against Reinhard - particularly since he seemed to be such an unwilling participant in the Alliance's army in the first place, although that may have been just due to his modesty. He does say around ep 73 or so:

SPOILERS BLAH BLAH SPOILERS

It is precisely because Reinhard is a good emperor that he must be defeated. Nonetheless he admits later that he does not want to kill him either.

Honestly, I thought when the Alliance capitulated to the Empire that Yang would actually retire if only for a few years, and not take such an active role in the resistence - particularly since Reinhard's empire showed itself to be more gracious and forgiving than the Alliance. Maybe I'm misinterpreting something about his ideals then. Julian also points out that the Empire would have cultivated Yang's talent such that he would've been the Emperor, whereas the Alliance stifled and repressed personal ability, and Yang just shrugs that off. I really didn't think he was such an admirer of democracy above all else, I figured he would've been more accepting of the pacifying nature of Reinhard's galactic empire.

Portable591
Oct 3, 2002

Kagari Mafia Ringleader and ray tracing EXPERT

quote:

eXXon came out of the closet to say:


He certainly is devious, depending on what you define him as deviating from. From Reinhard's instructions, certainly, and I think his propensity for cold-hearted intrigue further qualifies him. But yes, it is that ruthless efficiency that I like best. No need for miracles like Yang or any of the gimmicks displayed by other admirals ( Mittermeier's BLAZING SPEED or Schenkopp's AXE WIELDING ROSE KNIGHTS OF DOOM ), just an exacting mind and an awesome false eye.

Speaking of which, I am continuing to be displeased by the way the series is going (eps 70+), the Alliance forces keep getting one deus ex machina after the other, some being just plain nonsensical (hey look! solar wind! except it only happens to buffet and destroy imperial ships!) while I've all but forgotten about what made Reinhard such a great leader in the first place, since he is perpetually asking for advice and handing out assignments to his subordinates. Not that such actions are unexpected, but all the same, he's been more of an imposing figurehead than a crafty strategist.

Another thing I don't really understand about Yang's vendetta against the Emperor, possibly due to my having watched the first half of the series more than 2 years ago: in the early going, Yang was waxing philosophical about his role in fighting the Empire and then Reinhard. Lately, however, he seems to be all about DEMOCRACY and FREEDOM and (partly due to the lovely subs) really doesn't seem to have got across exactly why he was so motivated to fight against Reinhard - particularly since he seemed to be such an unwilling participant in the Alliance's army in the first place, although that may have been just due to his modesty. He does say around ep 73 or so:

SPOILERS BLAH BLAH SPOILERS

It is precisely because Reinhard is a good emperor that he must be defeated. Nonetheless he admits later that he does not want to kill him either.

Honestly, I thought when the Alliance capitulated to the Empire that Yang would actually retire if only for a few years, and not take such an active role in the resistence - particularly since Reinhard's empire showed itself to be more gracious and forgiving than the Alliance. Maybe I'm misinterpreting something about his ideals then. Julian also points out that the Empire would have cultivated Yang's talent such that he would've been the Emperor, whereas the Alliance stifled and repressed personal ability, and Yang just shrugs that off. I really didn't think he was such an admirer of democracy above all else, I figured he would've been more accepting of the pacifying nature of Reinhard's galactic empire.

Yang said, much earlier in the series when posed this question by Julian or someone else, that a dishonest democracy is better than a benevolent monarchy because with a democracy, at least you can vote to change your ruler. With an empire, you're stuck with the emperor's heir, for better or for worse, usually worse. That's been his belief for the entire series, and I'm surprised you never noticed it, or just forgot about it since it's been so long.

Chris Knight
Jun 5, 2002

me @ ur posts


Fun Shoe
Just watched the first 2 eps, fantastic!

Chris Knight fucked around with this message at 03:00 on Jul 11, 2005

Specineff
Mar 10, 2005

Fun Shoe
I almost thought for a minute there that I would never see anything past episode 34. How exciting!

Precambrian Video Games
Aug 19, 2002



quote:

Portable591 came out of the closet to say:
Yang said, much earlier in the series when posed this question by Julian or someone else, that a dishonest democracy is better than a benevolent monarchy because with a democracy, at least you can vote to change your ruler. With an empire, you're stuck with the emperor's heir, for better or for worse, usually worse. That's been his belief for the entire series, and I'm surprised you never noticed it, or just forgot about it since it's been so long.

Oh I did realize that, but I sensed a kind of subtle shift from intellectual idealism to rah rah democracy cheering... actually, I suppose it's not so much Yang who's guilty of thise but the rest of the alliance crew. Frankly, very few of the Alliance followers have anything particularly interesting to say, and while the Empire (under Lohengramm anyways, if I even need to spoiler this is the very paragon of ruthless efficiency. Yang's forces seem more like a big happy family ( particularly in the way they just decide to raise Julian to be a leader because of some phantasmic qualities he possesses ) rather than a dedicated revolutionary group. Actually, this may have been what I was getting at earlier, that Yang did not really seem all that enthralled with the idea of fighting the Empire in the first place even if he did think that it was necessary, so it surprised me that he dove right into renewing the fight against the Empire with little hesitation.

And to further my point, the Empire has Reuentahl. The Alliance has... Poplan. CASE CLOSED!

I wish I could spoil more of what's happened in eps 70+, but it's so awesome my conscience couldn't take it. I can't imagine how all of you resisted getting more episodes for this long.

Kent Brockman
Jun 28, 2005

by T. Fine
After reading about space battles set to classical music (I'm a sucker for classical music), I started grabbing the series off BT. I've only watched the first two episodes so far, but the animation quality and the story telling/character development have far exceeded my expectation so far. I mean, when Lap died so soon after his introduction, it was really well done. I never thought you could form that kind of "attachment" with a character so quickly. In any event, I've almost finished grabbing up to 36, and plan on plowing through these episodes as much as time allows. Man of Wax, many thanks for pointing this series out.

Man of Wax
May 20, 2003

There is a party in my pants.

abbad0n
Jan 25, 2005

quote:

Man of Wax came out of the closet to say:
There is a party in my pants.

drat. I'd forgotten how much I enjoyed this arc in the series. Of course I'd also forgotten how much of a brat that kid was as well.

The Therminador
Mar 31, 2004

I :lol:ed when I saw that Oberstein did indeed have a pet dalmatian dog, about which the high admirals were making fun of a few episodes earlier when they were having a drink together. LoGH is awesome.

The Therminador fucked around with this message at 01:41 on Jul 16, 2005

Specineff
Mar 10, 2005

Fun Shoe
Regarding episode 37, did it seem like there was a change in animation style to anybody else? Maybe it's because I hadn't watched the show in quite a while, but it seemed strange, and well, crappy. But it's not like I'm watching the show to be amazed by the animation :)

abbad0n
Jan 25, 2005
38 is out: http://a.scarywater.net/ca/logh eps 38 - Central Anime (d37345ab) .avi.torrent

Hokuto
Jul 21, 2002


Soiled Meat
I just finished watching the HK subs all the way up to 110.

I don't think I'll ever get to see a show that can top this one. That's really all I can say about it.

Precambrian Video Games
Aug 19, 2002



quote:

Hokuto came out of the closet to say:
I just finished watching the HK subs all the way up to 110.

I don't think I'll ever get to see a show that can top this one. That's really all I can say about it.

Please discuss spoilers with me, I finished a few weeks ago and I don't know how long I can keep them in.

Full frickin' series spoilers ahead, don't read them or else:




So much awesome drama in so many episodes. And even though they killed off my two favourite characters and then some, I still found it satisfying. The only complaint I had for the whole series was some of the tiresome and repetitive tactics used by Yang's fleet - I was rolling my eyes when they decided to board the Grunehild again, but fortunately nothing stupid came out of that.

In conclusion, watch the drat series now.

Hokuto
Jul 21, 2002


Soiled Meat

quote:

eXXon came out of the closet to say:
So much awesome drama in so many episodes. And even though they killed off my two favourite characters and then some, I still found it satisfying. The only complaint I had for the whole series was some of the tiresome and repetitive tactics used by Yang's fleet - I was rolling my eyes when they decided to board the Grunehild again, but fortunately nothing stupid came out of that.
At least they didn't lure the Imperial fleet into the Thor Cannon's firing range in the last battle. I was glad to see the Neue Reich had learned its lesson in that regard, however long it might have taken them to do so.

I was satisfied with how the series ended, although the demise of the Terra Church felt rather rushed after the enormous amount of buildup that had led to it. The entire church plot seemed pretty unrealistic to me - how feasible could it really be to keep thousands upon thousands of drugged fanatical followers on such a tight leash? They hinted at fermenting disputes and discontentment, then just dropped the matter entirely. Julian and the Iserlohn gang got a huge amount of information on them, but never actually put it any of it to practical use. The same could also be said of Mecklinger.

The Rubinsky/bomb thing also seemed pretty contrived.

Most of the time I watched the show I was rooting for the Reich commanders, so I was sad to see Fahrenheit and Reuentahl go. Reuental's last moments moved me to tears. I was glad to see Mittermeier get a happy ending out of the entire mess in the end, though.

Oberstein played the role of devil's advocate right up to his very last moments, and that impressed me a lot. Now that I've moved on to watching GoShogun, I can't listen to Bundol's voice without hearing Oberstein talking.

For the Iserlohn folks, the only deaths that really upset me were those of Yang Wen-li and Walter von Schenkopf. Mashengo's catchphrase irritated me from the start because it was painfully obvious that it would ultimately end that way.


If there's any lesson I've taken from watching this show, it's that any scene with drama or tension can be made a hundred times more awesome just by breaking a wineglass. Empty or full, thrown or dropped, a breaking wineglass is just the thing to really get people's attention.

Daryl Surat
Apr 6, 2002

I don't care what you say about this post, but if anyone steps on my bunion, I'll kill them!

quote:

Fabulous secrets were revealed to me when Hokuto said:
I just finished watching the HK subs all the way up to 110.

I don't think I'll ever get to see a show that can top this one. That's really all I can say about it.

What you're feeling right now is pretty much exactly the way I felt after finishing up through 110 back in 1999-2000 or so, even though I had to just trough through the whole thing raw despite not understanding Japanese or being able to know exactly what people's names were on account of the damned hard-coded Chinese subtitles. For what it's worth, I don't think I've seen anything that tops it either, even though I've practically forgotten all but the most major points.

Of course, I still haven't seen all the side stories, of which there's 52 episodes worth. I saw the Golden Wings OAV along with Valley of White Silver, but there's still the other 20 episodes that make up A Hundred Billion Stars, A Hundred Billion Lights (mostly about the Empire; "Valley" is episodes 1-4) and 28 episodes of Spiral Labyrinth (mostly about the Alliance, starting with exactly what happened at El Facile).

Belldandy
Sep 11, 2001

Do not try to boost in peace, because that is impossible. Instead only try to realize the truth, there is no boost.
Oh god, I can't take this any longer I need to see more. Are the HK subs... passable? Hell, if I can even MAKE out the plot I will take it.

Hokuto
Jul 21, 2002


Soiled Meat
Yes, they're passable. They get the occasional name, number, or grammatical phrasing wrong, but all in all they're very readable and easy to understand the gist of.

The Therminador
Mar 31, 2004

:siren: Episode 39 is out ! :siren:

http://a.scarywater.net/ca/logh eps 39 - Central Anime (cb8d2367) .avi.torrent

Man of Wax
May 20, 2003

quote:

Uberfrog came out of the closet to say:
:siren: Episode 39 is out ! :siren:

http://a.scarywater.net/ca/logh eps 39 - Central Anime (cb8d2367) .avi.torrent
Another good episode, although not that well animated. Julian sure is young for his new post though. If there is any reasonable criticism of LoGH it may be that the characters are, for the most part, way too young for their jobs.

The Therminador
Mar 31, 2004

To be fair, the trend of having young people not active in society is fairly recent, probably something to do with the extension of life expectancy. I can imagine very well that future societies will adapt, and make the young active sooner again. To me there's no valid reason to why an intelligent kid should spend so much time in school and start living in the real world only at age 20 to 25, considering how slow the pace of modern mass education is, in a proper environment one could do the entire primary and secondary curriculum in half the current time no problem and get valuable life experience (and maturity) way earlier.
Reinhardt did enjoy a meteoritic career to say the least, but having 15 year old orderlies would be nothing new though, similarly I don't find a 16 year old space fighter pilot shocking, quite on the contrary. Reflexes, quick thinking, and ability to withstand stress only diminish with age. Aircraft fighter pilots in the world wars (and still nowadays when they start training) were for the most part under 20 for good reason. Come to think of it, a posting as a military attaché to such a critical place as Phezzan is a bit much. Then again it seems that Yang is pretty much alone in giving a poo poo about Phezzan, everyone in the Alliance is expecting the Empire to go through Iserlohn, so to his superiors Phezzan may be perceived as a backwater just full of bankers (basically, thieves). It seems also that Julian was of some use in the defense of Iserlohn, he probably has some strong recommendations by people like Merkatz who saw some value in him.

It's also made pretty clear that Reinhardt (and Siegfried of course) would have gotten nowhere had his sister not been loving His Imperial Highness the Galactic Kaiser Friedrich IV von Goldenbaum. In feudal societies it was quite common to see some really young brat in command of regiments and armies just because he was prince so-and-so or whatever, at least until the time of Napoleon when war became serious business, and the Empire being modeled on such societies. Remember how in the beginning of Season 1 the other admirals don't take him, his abilities and his ambitions seriously.

The Therminador fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Jul 29, 2005

Man of Wax
May 20, 2003

quote:

Uberfrog came out of the closet to say:
To be fair, the trend of having young people not active in society is fairly recent, probably something to do with the extension of life expectancy. I can imagine very well that future societies will adapt, and make the young active sooner again. To me there's no valid reason to why an intelligent kid should spend so much time in school and start living in the real world only at age 20 to 25, considering how slow the pace of modern mass education is, in a proper environment one could do the entire primary and secondary curriculum in half the current time no problem and get valuable life experience (and maturity) way earlier.
Reinhardt did enjoy a meteoritic career to say the least, but having 15 year old orderlies would be nothing new though, similarly I don't find a 16 year old space fighter pilot shocking, quite on the contrary. Reflexes, quick thinking, and ability to withstand stress only diminish with age. Aircraft fighter pilots in the world wars (and still nowadays when they start training) were for the most part under 20 for good reason. Come to think of it, a posting as a military attaché to such a critical place as Phezzan is a bit much. Then again it seems that Yang is pretty much alone in giving a poo poo about Phezzan, everyone in the Alliance is expecting the Empire to go through Iserlohn, so to his superiors Phezzan may be perceived as a backwater just full of bankers (basically, thieves). It seems also that Julian was of some use in the defense of Iserlohn, he probably has some strong recommendations by people like Merkatz who saw some value in him.

It's also made pretty clear that Reinhardt (and Siegfried of course) would have gotten nowhere had his sister not been loving His Imperial Highness the Galactic Kaiser Friedrich IV von Goldenbaum. In feudal societies it was quite common to see some really young brat in command of regiments and armies just because he was prince so-and-so or whatever, at least until the time of Napoleon when war became serious business, and the Empire being modeled on such societies. Remember how in the beginning of Season 1 the other admirals don't take him, his abilities and his ambitions seriously.
The young brat in command was usually inept though. Great warriors and leaders in history are generally quite a bit older than twenty. Orderlies, fine, but undisputed leader and tactical genius is a bit much. Even so, Rheinhard isn't as hard to swallow as Julian. Not only is Julian too young for his post, but he is too much of a small fry in the military. He is Yang's buddy, true, but we all see that Yang does not make these decisions. My theory is that Julian is not being sent to Phezzan because he is particularly good at anything, but because the politicians want to isolate Yang. He has now lost Merkatz and Julian, if more of his people are reassigned it will only strengthen the case.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005

Clapping Larry
Finally started watching it; very awesome so far (3 episodes or in).

However, the CA 20-24 episode torrent seems to not want to work for me, while all the other CA torrents seem to be working. It's not a problem right now, but when I get up to 20 you can bet I'll be screaming.

Spazzle
Jul 5, 2003

quote:

Man of Wax came out of the closet to say:

The young brat in command was usually inept though. Great warriors and leaders in history are generally quite a bit older than twenty. Orderlies, fine, but undisputed leader and tactical genius is a bit much. Even so, Rheinhard isn't as hard to swallow as Julian. Not only is Julian too young for his post, but he is too much of a small fry in the military. He is Yang's buddy, true, but we all see that Yang does not make these decisions. My theory is that Julian is not being sent to Phezzan because he is particularly good at anything, but because the politicians want to isolate Yang. He has now lost Merkatz and Julian, if more of his people are reassigned it will only strengthen the case.
I think part of the idea is that the alliance has been so devastated in terms of people that they do have to use kids. Its been mentioned a few times how they don't have enough people to keep their cities running at full speed.

Precambrian Video Games
Aug 19, 2002



quote:

Hokuto came out of the closet to say:
At least they didn't lure the Imperial fleet into the Thor Cannon's firing range in the last battle. I was glad to see the Neue Reich had learned its lesson in that regard, however long it might have taken them to do so.

I was satisfied with how the series ended, although the demise of the Terra Church felt rather rushed after the enormous amount of buildup that had led to it. The entire church plot seemed pretty unrealistic to me - how feasible could it really be to keep thousands upon thousands of drugged fanatical followers on such a tight leash? They hinted at fermenting disputes and discontentment, then just dropped the matter entirely. Julian and the Iserlohn gang got a huge amount of information on them, but never actually put it any of it to practical use. The same could also be said of Mecklinger.

The Rubinsky/bomb thing also seemed pretty contrived.

Most of the time I watched the show I was rooting for the Reich commanders, so I was sad to see Fahrenheit and Reuentahl go. Reuental's last moments moved me to tears. I was glad to see Mittermeier get a happy ending out of the entire mess in the end, though.

Oberstein played the role of devil's advocate right up to his very last moments, and that impressed me a lot. Now that I've moved on to watching GoShogun, I can't listen to Bundol's voice without hearing Oberstein talking.

For the Iserlohn folks, the only deaths that really upset me were those of Yang Wen-li and Walter von Schenkopf. Mashengo's catchphrase irritated me from the start because it was painfully obvious that it would ultimately end that way.


If there's any lesson I've taken from watching this show, it's that any scene with drama or tension can be made a hundred times more awesome just by breaking a wineglass. Empty or full, thrown or dropped, a breaking wineglass is just the thing to really get people's attention.

Reinhard must have had a wine glass room everywhere he went with the rate at which he broke them. But you can't really blame him with some of the incompetent subordinates he relied upon.


Yeah, they used that gimmick enough times already. I think they ran out of ways to justify 'lol yous guys forgot about the range of Thor's Hammer! Or you remembered but ran into it anyways!'

The Terra church ending was kind of rushed, yeah. They went down from what, hundreds of millions of members supposedly lurking on the Earth to zero over the course of a few years? Even with the Empire-wide crackdown on them and their fanaticism it seems like a bit much. They always just seemed t be there to cause havoc right when the situation demanded it least, so to see them go like that was a little surprising, if not disappointing. But yeah, at least they were working as a group, whereas Rubinsky came up with even more dastardly plots practically on his own.

Reuentahl was clearly the (second) best character in the series, so it sucked to see him go - but at least he went out with a bang. The fact that he decided to pursue the rebellion on his own made it seem less contrived, since there had been all kinds of previous foreshadowing of his discontentment with being #2.

I could never take the Alliance/Iserlohn people seriously because they just seemed so blase about raising a rebellion against a massively powerful galactic empire. Ok, Poplan was fine for some comic relief, but he shouldn't have had as much of a role in the series as he did.

Oberstein's death was surprising but still appropriate. Perhaps he thought his role had ended with the death of Reinhard and the (at least temporary) rule of Hildegard returning the Empire to peace. Actually, it would've been awesome to see Mittermeier become emperor then, or even more so Reuentahl had he still been alive. Not likely to happen if Reinhard wanted to at least see if his son was capable of being emperor, but still.

The one thing I'm kind of disappointed about is that they never really went into detail about the social changes of the era that Reinhard promised (particularly after Silverberche died), except when the context warranted it - in other words, when a riot/rebellion needed to happen. And other than Odin / Iserlohn, nothing much ever seemed to happen in the old Empire after Reinhard unified it, although I suppose that's not really unexpected.

Syllogism
Jun 7, 2001

We have listened. We are unmoved. The cleansing will proceed.
:siren: Episode 40 :siren:

Better not get used to this pace

The Therminador
Mar 31, 2004

I wouldn't mind if they were done faster, but what's wrong with one episode a week ?

Robot Bastard
Jul 14, 2004

by Ozma
Mother fucker, I just picked the wrong drat spoiler tag to roll over. I haven't been this pissed since an inadvertent page-down in a "Final Fantasy 7" walk-through.

quote:

Uberfrog came out of the closet to say:
I wouldn't mind if they were done faster, but what's wrong with one episode a week ?
Nothing. His point was that pretty soon they'll run out of episodes and it's going to be another six-month wait for their translator to get his poo poo together.

The Therminador
Mar 31, 2004

drat, I see.
I heard that the scripts of all the episodes were done, so I kind of assumed that that included the translating work. That'll teach me :(

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abbad0n
Jan 25, 2005
Don't know what the quality is, but box just posted all 110 eps if you can't wait for CA.

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