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OotS does filler really well, to be honest. While I've felt "c'mon, get back to the action!" I've never been angry about it like I have with other things.
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Apr 12, 2007 22:51
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Filler? What the heck? This is still a humor comic first and foremost, guys, so he's gotta make joke strips. We should all know by now that turning to "story" exclusively puts any humor series at large risk of going to poo poo. Besides, he's progressing in that he's showing us what every Order member is up to while making jokes. He can say the fight's over and the gobbos are leaving next strip and it would flow perfectly in my mind.
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Apr 13, 2007 00:58
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It's perfectly possible to do a story and keep it funny. It's just this particular scene diverts from the three currently established lines of action (V vs. death knight, Roy vs. Xykon, Belkar vs. everyone) and doesn't show us anything exciting. Funny? Yes. Cute? Yes. Unless? No. But there are those of us who want to know more about what's happening with V/Roy/Belkar.
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Apr 13, 2007 01:21
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Fuego Fish posted:It's perfectly possible to do a story and keep it funny. It's just this particular scene diverts from the three currently established lines of action (V vs. death knight, Roy vs. Xykon, Belkar vs. everyone) and doesn't show us anything exciting. Funny? Yes. Cute? Yes. Unless? No. But there are those of us who want to know more about what's happening with V/Roy/Belkar. And then there's me who likes to see everyone get their turn. Seeing what Hinjo, Haley, and Elan are doing is great!
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Apr 13, 2007 01:57
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I don't think of any of this is going to be filler. I bet the climax of the battle will use elements from each of these strips to make something awesome. After all, this strip shows that Haley is looking after Elan during the battle rather effectively, so Elan is relatively safe. Since he's the weakest member of the party, I'd say this is a notable development. Anyway, I think this is moving along at a pretty decent clip. Remember, this is an EPIC battle and there are at least 10 major characters in it (OOTS, Hinjo, Redcloak, Xykon, death knight) plus thousands of minor NPCs. Compared to say, a manga like Berserk, this is drat fast. As a comparison, in a real 3.5 D&D game I ran last summer, one battle took 2 sessions and about 8-10 hours to play through. A group of epic level PCs (22-23rd level) and their cohorts and armies decided to invade the capital city of the mind flayer empire. Yeah. They won, but most of them died and they barely pulled it off. drat epic paladins and their savings throws. Also, sup KODT published buddy  Do you do any other RPG writing?
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Apr 13, 2007 04:13
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ConfusedUs posted:And then there's me who likes to see everyone get their turn. Seeing what Hinjo, Haley, and Elan are doing is great! Durkon has been conspiciously missing.
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Apr 13, 2007 04:23
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Brannock posted:Durkon has been conspiciously missing. So have the other prisoners.
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Apr 13, 2007 05:54
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clockworkjoe posted:As a comparison, in a real 3.5 D&D game I ran last summer, one battle took 2 sessions and about 8-10 hours to play through. A group of epic level PCs (22-23rd level) and their cohorts and armies decided to invade the capital city of the mind flayer empire. Yeah. They won, but most of them died and they barely pulled it off. drat epic paladins and their savings throws. I'm in an Iron Heroes game that's been running since December and we're only 72 hours later in game time than when we started, epic battles can take for loving ever and be completely worth the time. I think Burlew's pacing is phenominal and this is a nice little touch in the midst of the chaos. I do think Durkon often gets short-shrifted though.
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Apr 13, 2007 06:19
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rantmo posted:I'm in an Iron Heroes game that's been running since December and we're only 72 hours later in game time than when we started, epic battles can take for loving ever and be completely worth the time. I think Burlew's pacing is phenominal and this is a nice little touch in the midst of the chaos. I do think Durkon often gets short-shrifted though. I remember reading in the paladin blues that Burlew gave Durkon a phobia of trees so he would have at least some schtick, as he was too dry of a character without it.
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Apr 13, 2007 06:32
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Brannock posted:Durkon has been conspiciously missing. You can see Durkon's head by Haley on the 3-D shot.
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Apr 13, 2007 06:37
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Seriously, can't the Erfworld guy do exposition in some better, more original way than pulling a Doogie Howser? Christ.
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Apr 13, 2007 12:51
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I can definitely understand why lots of you seem to be disliking Erfworld, but I'm really starting to enjoy it. The slow, what-exactly-is-meant-to-be-happening build up seems to be over, and Tool, Wanda and Parson are finally getting a little more interesting. And what Wanda says about the enemy commander is just badass;Wanda posted:As for his weaknesses, he is in love with our prisoner. And in OotS, Elan's absolute faith in V is just great 
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Apr 13, 2007 14:25
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clockworkjoe posted:I remember reading in the paladin blues that Burlew gave Durkon a phobia of trees so he would have at least some schtick, as he was too dry of a character without it. I love this comic and all, but aside from the fight scenes, Durkon is a surprisingly boring dwarf. And this is coming from a guy who has been known to scream "DWARF" as a warcry in his RPs, so I know my dwarves. I guess the energy of a dwarf doesn't translate so well to comics, or maybe Burlew is not as enthused by them as I am. This reminds me that my friends and I are going to resume our campaign in which I have used my dwarf warrior's knowledge of magical runes to animate a gigantic mithril dwarven statue with techomagic battle weapons on it. We're about to go to war with a bunch of dragonkin and that thing's going to be tearing through the field as I lead my dwarven brethren and non-dwarven allies into battle, yelling in a scottish accent.  
Lurdiak fucked around with this message at 15:10 on Apr 13, 2007 |
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Apr 13, 2007 15:07
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Lurdiak posted:I love this comic and all, but aside from the fight scenes, Durkon is a surprisingly boring dwarf. And this is coming from a guy who has been known to scream "DWARF" as a warcry in his RPs, so I know my dwarves. I guess the energy of a dwarf doesn't translate so well to comics, or maybe Burlew is not as enthused by them as I am. I have loved Durkon ever since he lectured Hilgya about how humans always do what feels grooovy and it's your duty as a dwarf to be as unhappy as possible.
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Apr 13, 2007 15:23
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Battlestar Ferrinus posted:I have loved Durkon ever since he lectured Hilgya about how humans always do what feels grooovy and it's your duty as a dwarf to be as unhappy as possible. He's still a pretty cool character, but he's no Gimli or anything is what I'm saying. His awesome level is low compared to others, when being a dwarf should make him the AWESOMEST.
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Apr 13, 2007 15:28
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clockworkjoe posted:Also, sup KODT published buddy You know, I'd like to do more, but there are only so many hours in the day, you know?
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Apr 13, 2007 17:56
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TJO posted:I can definitely understand why lots of you seem to be disliking Erfworld, but I'm really starting to enjoy it. The slow, what-exactly-is-meant-to-be-happening build up seems to be over, and Tool, Wanda and Parson are finally getting a little more interesting. I also think the whole "I'm clearly not part of this world, I wonder if I can use that" gimmick could turn out to be pretty neat. Overall this comic is still in my Benefit Of The Doubt file - the guy's got some pacing issues and some wall-of-text issues, as well as the occasional creepy-in-the-bad-way section, but I'm waiting to see what happens with the universe and the plot. I'm pretty sure that the entire comic is not going to consist of defending a castle from enemy forces, and I'm not going to give up on it until it becomes clear that's wrong or it turns out to be awful once outside the castle.
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Apr 13, 2007 22:16
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ZorbaTHut posted:I also think the whole "I'm clearly not part of this world, I wonder if I can use that" gimmick could turn out to be pretty neat. Overall this comic is still in my Benefit Of The Doubt file - the guy's got some pacing issues and some wall-of-text issues, as well as the occasional creepy-in-the-bad-way section, but I'm waiting to see what happens with the universe and the plot. I'm pretty sure that the entire comic is not going to consist of defending a castle from enemy forces, and I'm not going to give up on it until it becomes clear that's wrong or it turns out to be awful once outside the castle. Well, it's been over 40 pages, 4 of them being enormous wall-of-texts one, and so far, the only thing we know is this: Gobwin Knob is a strategic military stronghold. Royals might be bad. Or Stan might be bad, who knows. Blonde girl and sorceress girl share a creepy, lesbian past. The main character is a fat disgusting slob who is good at strategies. The arkentools are weapons forged by the gods. Five plot points in 44 strips. That is not good.
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Apr 13, 2007 22:20
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Yeah the best way to judge a piece of writing is by the number of plot points. Do you realise what a plot point is? A rough description of a character isn't a plot point, especially if it leaves out the traits most likely to affect the future plot. And if you're saying you dislike it because not enough has happened so far, well that's just silly.
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Apr 14, 2007 00:27
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You know that Burlew doesn't write or draw Erfworld, right? Check the first page; he isn't mentioned as an artist or writer.
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Apr 14, 2007 00:37
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Lurdiak posted:He's still a pretty cool character, but he's no Gimli or anything is what I'm saying. His awesome level is low compared to others, when being a dwarf should make him the AWESOMEST. The second someone corrects Durkon's math that whole batallion of hobgoblins are just going to fall on the spot. That said I always thought that Durkon was meant as the antithesis of all things dwarf just like how Belkar is the anti Hobbit. Durkon isn't nearly as obsessed with fighting and food as stereotypical dwarves are. Also he provides a nice contrast to Miko in that his devotion to his religion is considerably more level headed than her's.
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Apr 14, 2007 00:38
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Calaveron posted:Well, it's been over 40 pages, 4 of them being enormous wall-of-texts one, and so far, the only thing we know is this: Come on, read through the first 44 strips of OOTS. It's not all that much better. There's a bunch of basic character introduction (I forgot how annoying Elan used to be) and then you get a few actual plot points! * Xykon is evil and they're trying to kill him * Roy has a ghost dad who isn't particularly helpful * Xykon has a terrifying secret weapon that lurks in the dark * Haley likes money (because she's a thief! How original! I can tell this is going to be a wonderful and unique comic) And . . . that's all. Then you get a relatively uninteresting battle with a chimera and another bunch of one-off jokes. Oh yeah, and a breaking-the-fourth-wall joke and a Letters from the Readers strip. At this point, every single character besides Roy comes across as a complete and total cliche, and Roy only avoids that by virtue of being intelligent. The rogue's evil, the thief is moneyhoarding cute and acrobatic, there's a devout dwarven priest healer, and there's an elven mage who talks too much. What imagination. Honestly, after reading these strips, I think OOTS comes across worse early on (at least for someone who enjoys unique worlds and has no particular love for punchlines.) It feels like yet another generic cliche fantasy comic with at least a few good one-shot jokes but nothing else to recommend it. Erfworld is at least distinctive in the first 44 strips. I'm obviously not claiming that OOTS hasn't turned out to be fantastic, because it has, but the great character development really only starts showing up when they run into Xykon the first time. This takes about a hundred strips. ZorbaTHut fucked around with this message at 01:26 on Apr 14, 2007 |
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Apr 14, 2007 01:16
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I mostly agree. I really didn't get into it until the Linear Guild comes along, I think if I had been reading it as it came out instead of starting right around when Redmountain explodes I probably wouldn't have kept reading. Instead this is and probably always will be my single favorite OotS page. Much love for Thog.
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Apr 14, 2007 02:27
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 New strip is up!Two daggers ftw.
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Apr 14, 2007 05:48
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I don't know much about D&D, but I'm presuming there's no grouping effect on difficulty? that is, if you kill 40 low level guys it's considered as 40 individual kills instead of one group kill of 40 on 1? Kinda sucks.
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Apr 14, 2007 05:50
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I don't get this strip at all. Why wouldn't he get xp from killing hobgoblins? Isn't hobgoblin death automatically equal to experience gain?
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Apr 14, 2007 05:51
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Soylentbits posted:I don't get this strip at all. Why wouldn't he get xp from killing hobgoblins? Isn't hobgoblin death automatically equal to experience gain? Depends on the DM. Say a fire ant gives 1/1000th of an experience point. Go around boiling anthills! They even based a Munchkin card off it. I would kill to have an OOTS munchkin game.
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Apr 14, 2007 05:53
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Soylentbits posted:I don't get this strip at all. Why wouldn't he get xp from killing hobgoblins? Isn't hobgoblin death automatically equal to experience gain? Well individually the hobgoblins are no threat to him, he can kill them in one blow so they're too weak for him to get XP. It's one of those negative feedback things to encourage you too find encounters your own level instead of just killing weak creatures.
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Apr 14, 2007 05:54
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It depends on the DM: If he's gonna count the hobgoblins individually, they're so low powered that they only grant like 1xp apiece. If he counts it as one massive encounter it could be worth something...but still not as much as fighting, say, a dragon.
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Apr 14, 2007 05:59
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Yeah but he'd still get some xp albeit really scant amounts. Haley seemed to imply that he wasn't getting any at all. I'm probably overthinking it and not hearing the hyperbole.
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Apr 14, 2007 06:01
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You don't get XP for killing enemies per se, you get XP for the encounter you're in. A hobgoblin has a CR of 1/2, so two hobgoblins are a challenge for a single first level PC. Belkar being 10+ level can get through a lot of hobgoblins before they become an appreciable challenge. He'd probably get a smidgen of XP but all-told it's not worth his while, his psychopathic tendancies not withstanding.
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Apr 14, 2007 06:05
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It was still a pretty bad rear end strip. Seriously, we've seen everyone shining through in battle except for Elan, but he's a bard so it doesn't matter.
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Apr 14, 2007 06:48
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rantmo posted:You don't get XP for killing enemies per se, you get XP for the encounter you're in. A hobgoblin has a CR of 1/2, so two hobgoblins are a challenge for a single first level PC. And after a while, killing a ton of things massively lower-level than oneself results in no XP gain at all, IIRC. Stacking like 100 of them might get Belkar XP, but that sort of thing is discouraged by the DMG. Still though, great strip. Like everyone here, I really like how Burlew has stretched his art capabilities over the course of the whole comic, and am especially noticing it in this plot arc.
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Apr 14, 2007 07:48
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Gumby posted:And after a while, killing a ton of things massively lower-level than oneself results in no XP gain at all, IIRC. Stacking like 100 of them might get Belkar XP, but that sort of thing is discouraged by the DMG. In 3.0, I think they left that up to common sense... Oh, and in the monster manual? Toads were 1/10th CR. And had no attack. Dig a hole, fill with toads, pour some oil in, light it on fire... If I remember my math correctly, you could go from 0 to level 5 or so in one shot, which then let you put more toads in without running off to the top end of the chart for your level and do it again. In 3.5, toads and other minor critters with no attack are now CR "-", and the DMG expliticly discusses that 10,000 CR 0.1 critters are probalby not a CR 1000 encounter for a group of experinced PCs.
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Apr 14, 2007 09:27
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Gumby posted:And after a while, killing a ton of things massively lower-level than oneself results in no XP gain at all, IIRC. Stacking like 100 of them might get Belkar XP, but that sort of thing is discouraged by the DMG.
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Apr 14, 2007 12:59
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Yeah, i'm pretty sure CR still works by a forumla of +2 to CR for every doubling of numbers. Leaving aside all the dumb toad/anthill crap that was never really true, you'd still have to beat up something like 40 hobgoblins in one battle before you could get XP for them, assuming you're at around 10th level. I think the joke still works fine it's really no big deal and the CR system is retarded anyway and best used as a rule of thumb.
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Apr 14, 2007 13:05
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Actually, I think in 3.5 that monsters with a CR that is much lower than the PCs level, don't give any EXP. I played with this calculator and even 100 CR 1 hobgoblins wouldn't give XP to a level 13 PC. http://www.d20srd.org/encounterCalculator.htm
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Apr 14, 2007 20:21
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clockworkjoe posted:Actually, I think in 3.5 that monsters with a CR that is much lower than the PCs level, don't give any EXP. I played with this calculator and even 100 CR 1 hobgoblins wouldn't give XP to a level 13 PC. I just played with some numbers for fun, saying that Belkar is level 13, and killed say, 86 CR one half hobgoblins. He gets no XP, even if I say each hobgoblin is a CR 1 creature. In fact, bumping each up to a CR 4 while making the encounter "unbeatable", still gives him nothing.
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Apr 14, 2007 21:41
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Zereth posted:In 3.0, I think they left that up to common sense... The problem is, of course, when you get people who disagree on what "common sense" means, either out of of honest confusion or out of trying to game the system. (See early Magic: The Gathering for more of this.)
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Apr 15, 2007 06:26
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Well, if I was the GM I would award Belkar XP on the basis that he was clearly challenged. It's just that a PC of the level he probably is usually takes on infinity billion hob-gobs without breaking a sweat. Belkar, like the rest of the Order, doesn't seem to possess the amazing array of magic gewgaws you'd expect at his level and ends up with an AC the enemy can hit. Creepy little Erfworld necromancerette is wearing a getup like Vanessa from King of Fighters. I wonder if that's connected or just an outfit I haven't seen anywhere else.
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Apr 16, 2007 06:24
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