Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
CRIP EATIN BREAD
Jun 24, 2002

Hey stop worrying bout my acting bitch, and worry about your WACK ass music. In the mean time... Eat a hot bowl of Dicks! Ice T



Soiled Meat

Korgoth posted:

I just got a virtual Ubuntu server, and was wondering about any quick tips on hardening it up a bit?

Root login is already disabled, so that's good (I hope). Turn off any services you don't need. Set up denyhosts.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

teapot
Dec 27, 2003

by Fistgrrl

skroll posted:

Root login is already disabled, so that's good (I hope). Turn off any services you don't need. Set up denyhosts.

...and don't forget to update it.

Also take into account that when you use virtual machines, your security also depends on the host system being secure. Secure system won't do you any good if some rear end in a top hat can break into the host and mess with virtual machines or storage. Providers are supposed to take care of this, however not all providers' admins are competent.

TreFitty
Jan 18, 2003

drat it, teapot. Why weren't you there when I decided I needed new drivers for my graphics card?

CRIP EATIN BREAD
Jun 24, 2002

Hey stop worrying bout my acting bitch, and worry about your WACK ass music. In the mean time... Eat a hot bowl of Dicks! Ice T



Soiled Meat

teapot posted:

...and don't forget to update it.

That's always good advice as well. :)

Leathal
Oct 29, 2004

wanna be like gucci?
lil buddy eat your vegetables

teapot posted:

You should be able to copy and resize that partition with gparted. If you have /etc/fstab with uuids instead of device names you won't even have to edit that file when physical device names change. You may need to re-create the main boot record or boot record in the partition to reflect moved bootloader and kernel -- boot from CD, mount and chroot into the new filesystem, edit /boot/grub/menu.lst, re-run grub-install on the new device.

Gonna try this today.

My fstab appears to be using UUIDS, so that's good. I know how to edit menu.lst and use gparted, so I'm confident about that as well.

Going by the other stuff I've read in this thread, I should install Windows XP first and then use a Live CD to get back into Linux and recreate/copy partitions right? Oh god I hope I don't gently caress this up.

Kobayashi
Aug 13, 2004

by Nyc_Tattoo
I'm finally back on Linux after a one-year hiatus. I am really impressed by the progress that has been made. So much stuff Just Works these days. :)

teapot posted:

What exactly did not work? Totem media player is the most bloated most often broken media player that ever was shipped with Linux, this is why people install Xine, GXine, VLC, Mplayer and other well known media players on Linux. Not entirely unlike Windows Media Player. Even taking that into account a lot of problems with it can be solved by resetting its configuration by removing .totem directory under user's home.

Yes, questions abound! Not necessarily to you, teapot, but inspired by your post on the brokenness of Totem.

A) How to replace Totem as the handler for oh so many files? Preferred Applications only sets the Browser, Email Reader, and Terminal settings. For example, MP3s want to open with Totem instead of Rhythmbox (which is actually good enough for me).

B) What to replace it with? VLC? Gnome native is a must. Amarok is nice, but it has to be native because I am a UI fag.

C) Is it possible to play Real streams a la those on c-span.com? I couldn't for the life of me getting Real to work on Ubuntu. I finally had to resort to installing RealPlayer 11-beta on a Windows VM.

D) Can I install Flash in, say, Opera only? On Windows, I wouldn't install Flash at all in Firefox, instead using IETab when I needed to view a Flash page. I did this because Flashblock actually loads the first frame of the movie before blocking. I want Flash to be completely separate from Firefox.

E) Spotlight on Ubunutu? Deskbar + Beagle Extension is just about there! I can launch programs and search, but when I look for an MP3 I want to play I get an error:

Deskbar posted:

Cannot show URL:

'file://file%3A///home/path/to/the/file/I/want/to/play'

I'd say there's something wrong there!

F) Ubuntu is so much fun. :)

RoundsToZero
Dec 3, 2004

An open door is an invitation
I think VLC is GTK+ not Gnome but from a UI fag's point of view there shouldn't be a difference. GXine is also GTK+ but I'm not a fan. Mplayer and xine-ui each use very different toolkits.

Kobayashi
Aug 13, 2004

by Nyc_Tattoo

RoundsToZero posted:

I think VLC is GTK+ not Gnome but from a UI fag's point of view there shouldn't be a difference. GXine is also GTK+ but I'm not a fan. Mplayer and xine-ui each use very different toolkits.

I tried VLC while I was trying to get Real video to work and didn't have any major problems with it. Was native enough for me. Ideally I would like to have one multimedia player for all my video+audio needs, but VLC and Rhythmbox would probably be good enough too.

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004


teapot posted:

GDB can be more or less integrated as well, however as I have mentioned many times if programming threads, debugger should not be used for development of new code, its use should be limited to reverse engineering and crash analysis.

What's wrong with debugging new code? Seems pretty useful to me.

dfn_doe
Apr 12, 2005
I FOR ONE WELCOME OUR NEW STUPID FUCKING CATCHPHRASE OVERLORDS

Scaevolus posted:

You should try vim as well, but the learning curve is a bit steeper than emacs.

Are you high on needle drugs?!?!?!?! vi is way simpler to learn than emacs.

hk0
Sep 24, 2005

HO HO HO!!!

Twinxor posted:

What's wrong with debugging new code? Seems pretty useful to me.

Ideally you use other tools besides hardware breakpoints to instrument and profile your code that are directly suited to the task (Valgrind, profile, qemu, in-binary assertions and logging, etc.)

Evi|Sycho
Sep 9, 2001

Sexy Time!
Sorry if this is a really dumb question but I searched around for a while and could not find anyone else that had the same problem. I've been having trouble getting uTorrent to start on my Thinkpad T42 running Ubuntu Feisty. I initially installed and ran it through Wine perfectly, but now when I try to run it nothing happens. The program is starting because I can check that the tracker is recognizing me being active, and I can see utorrent.exe is running in System Monitor, but no GUI is popping up. I tried KTorrent and Deluge, and have found that I really prefer to run uTorrent from a comfort standpoint. If it helps, other apps I've got running in wine open and run perfectly. I'm mainly wondering if anyone knows the specific cause of this issue so if it happens with any other programs I'd know how to approach it.

Steve French
Sep 8, 2003

Twinxor posted:

What's wrong with debugging new code? Seems pretty useful to me.

I believe he's talking specifically in the context of multithreaded programming.

fatcat
Jun 18, 2004

albert's lookin at you

Twinxor posted:

What's wrong with debugging new code? Seems pretty useful to me.

uh oh

The Remote Viewer
Jul 9, 2001

teapot posted:

Really? Or did it segfault after you have enabled a dozen or two experimental options and visualization plugins, and given it MP3 files each with four inconsistent sets of ID3 tags in broken encoding? How do you even know that it segfaulted -- did you run it in a terminal? If so, sure, you have been able to read other diagnostics you were givem, what was it?

I think I'll stop replying to you since you think you know everything. You've made a ton of assumptions about things you think that I did or didn't do. You're not really being a good advocate for the OS when you talk to down to someone that had problems with it.

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004


fatcat posted:

uh oh

Yeah, I missed the bit about threads

yippee cahier
Mar 28, 2005

The Remote Viewer posted:

I think I'll stop replying to you since you think you know everything. You've made a ton of assumptions about things you think that I did or didn't do. You're not really being a good advocate for the OS when you talk to down to someone that had problems with it.

Sure, teapot was snarky, but there's a difference between "need help getting AAC decoding going" and "tried to rice out my system without knowing anything about it; linux sucks".

yippee cahier
Mar 28, 2005

On an unrelated note, any recommendations for a distro for running a home server from? My plan is to have a CF card with the root filesystem on it, and a RAID of disks for NAS. I don't want to burn out my CF card with too many writes, so the idea is mounting /var on a ramdisk or hopefully all of / read-only. I was wondering if there was something tailored to this task, with a modern package manager, but still a light, text based system.

I have done a linux from scratch deal on a CF card before, but it's a little tedious building each package or popping the card into a workstation to change a line in a config file.

deimos
Nov 30, 2006

Forget it man this bat is whack, it's got poobrain!
not linux but FreeNAS will do what you want.

rugbert
Mar 26, 2003
yea, fuck you
Hey, does linux have a sweet spot when it comes to RAM like XP or vista?

Im gunna buy a laptop this week and I want to dedicate it to Linux but I dont know if I should spring extra money for a full gig of RAM since Im on a budget at the moment.

Also - Other than Unbuntu (I didnt like it when I tried it a few years back) whats a good flavor to put on a laptop?

deimos
Nov 30, 2006

Forget it man this bat is whack, it's got poobrain!
kubuntu? =O

There's also Fedora and a few others.

also in regards to ram: I have 2GB on this and more than half that is buffers, I run several services bound to 127.0.0.1 and compiz-fusion.

deimos fucked around with this message at 04:14 on Aug 23, 2007

Scaevolus
Apr 16, 2007

rugbert posted:

Hey, does linux have a sweet spot when it comes to RAM like XP or vista?

Im gunna buy a laptop this week and I want to dedicate it to Linux but I dont know if I should spring extra money for a full gig of RAM since Im on a budget at the moment.

Also - Other than Unbuntu (I didnt like it when I tried it a few years back) whats a good flavor to put on a laptop?
I ran xubuntu for a year on 256MB... 512MB should be fine with GNOME/KDE, just as long as you don't run multiple memory hungry apps (firefox) at a time. More memory is nice though, because of the caching, as the previous poster mentioned.

Scaevolus fucked around with this message at 04:24 on Aug 23, 2007

yippee cahier
Mar 28, 2005

deimos posted:

not linux but FreeNAS will do what you want.

I want to do mpd, asterisk and maybe myth-backend on the same machine eventually, so a general purpose distro would be better suited. Thanks though.

teapot
Dec 27, 2003

by Fistgrrl

The Remote Viewer posted:

I think I'll stop replying to you since you think you know everything. You've made a ton of assumptions about things you think that I did or didn't do. You're not really being a good advocate for the OS when you talk to down to someone that had problems with it.
It would be really helpful if you actually described how your configuration differs from my description.

deimos
Nov 30, 2006

Forget it man this bat is whack, it's got poobrain!

sund posted:

I want to do mpd, asterisk and maybe myth-backend on the same machine eventually, so a general purpose distro would be better suited. Thanks though.

Then Debian, for this probably unstable since it'll have the newest packages for mpd/myth/asterisk.

dfn_doe
Apr 12, 2005
I FOR ONE WELCOME OUR NEW STUPID FUCKING CATCHPHRASE OVERLORDS

sund posted:

I want to do mpd, asterisk and maybe myth-backend on the same machine eventually, so a general purpose distro would be better suited. Thanks though.

Gentoo would be my #1 for this job. I've got 9 systems at work booting gentoo from 4gb thumb drives and logging to /var mounted on NFS. works a treat and the lack of crazy dependency hell that you get from redhat/suse/debian based distros just doesn't exist when you do gentoo minimal with a few exclusionary USE flags "-X11 -docs" etc...

dfn_doe
Apr 12, 2005
I FOR ONE WELCOME OUR NEW STUPID FUCKING CATCHPHRASE OVERLORDS

rugbert posted:

Hey, does linux have a sweet spot when it comes to RAM like XP or vista?

Im gunna buy a laptop this week and I want to dedicate it to Linux but I dont know if I should spring extra money for a full gig of RAM since Im on a budget at the moment.

Also - Other than Unbuntu (I didnt like it when I tried it a few years back) whats a good flavor to put on a laptop?

Depends on what you want to use it for. I find that for my general day to day usage (thunderbird + konsole + firefox + beryl) on a 1.8ghz core duo with centrino chipset I picked up a little performance from jumping to 2gb from 1gb, but I RARELY come close to going much past 1.2 or 1.3gb of physical memory in use. Also, as far as linux on a laptop your best bet is going to ubuntu on a 100% intel based system. Intel has bar none the best driver support in the 2.6 kernel tree and Ubuntu is likewise the best laptop/workstation distro. Its come a LONG way in the past few releases and I'm sure you will find yourself pleasantly surprised if it wasn't your cup of tea before.

thenameseli
Sep 6, 2006

dfn_doe posted:

Gentoo would be my #1 for this job. I've got 9 systems at work booting gentoo from 4gb thumb drives and logging to /var mounted on NFS. works a treat and the lack of crazy dependency hell that you get from redhat/suse/debian based distros just doesn't exist when you do gentoo minimal with a few exclusionary USE flags "-X11 -docs" etc...

[quote="sund"]
I have done a linux from scratch deal on a CF card before, but it's a little tedious building each package or popping the card into a workstation to change a line in a config file.
[quote]

And please don't spread misinformation about distros. Debian certainly has nothing resembling 'dependency hell,' nor to my knowledge did it ever have a reputation for such in the past. The rpm-based distros you mention certainly had problems a few years ago, but from what I understand the situation is much improved now. I'm glad your setup works but he said he didn't want to build everything from source.

Sund: I personally would recommend Debian. It has every binary package you could need, and it is simple to do a bare-bones installation. Also, you will need at least /var to be read-write.

Leathal
Oct 29, 2004

wanna be like gucci?
lil buddy eat your vegetables

The Remote Viewer posted:

I think I'll stop replying to you since you think you know everything. You've made a ton of assumptions about things you think that I did or didn't do. You're not really being a good advocate for the OS when you talk to down to someone that had problems with it.

In your defense, I had the exact same problem with Amarok and I certainly didn't do anything more advanced than install it.

Then I found mpd and Sonata and fell in love. :love:

deimos
Nov 30, 2006

Forget it man this bat is whack, it's got poobrain!

thenameseli posted:

And please don't spread misinformation about distros. Debian certainly has nothing resembling 'dependency hell,' nor to my knowledge did it ever have a reputation for such in the past. The rpm-based distros you mention certainly had problems a few years ago, but from what I understand the situation is much improved now. I'm glad your setup works but he said he didn't want to build everything from source.

Debian unstable has had dependency problems, but generally speaking they were very mild. Gentoo unstable (or whatever the unstable branch is called) has crippled entire computers before with a long rear end recovery process.

edit: thinking further on the whole what OS to use on my NAS box, if opensolaris can run all the programs you need that's probably your absolute best bet ZFS :fap:.

Al Azif
Nov 1, 2006

thenameseli posted:

sund posted:

I have done a linux from scratch deal on a CF card before, but it's a little tedious building each package or popping the card into a workstation to change a line in a config file.

The tediousness of building a package in Gentoo isn't in the same class as the tediousness of building one in LFS. The only similarity is the wait.

Al Azif fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Aug 23, 2007

dfn_doe
Apr 12, 2005
I FOR ONE WELCOME OUR NEW STUPID FUCKING CATCHPHRASE OVERLORDS

Al Azif posted:

The tediousness of building a package in Gentoo isn't in the same class as the tediousness of building one in LFS. The only similarity is the wait.

Thank you for this! Everybody seems to thinking that gentoo is LFS.. Which is simply not the case.

deimos posted:

Debian unstable has had dependency problems, but generally speaking they were very mild.

I'm not sure what you've said even makes any sense or addresses any of what i posted. By "dependency hell" I was referring to the trend in most modern distros to target everything to build against the maximum number of build time options. Which results is in common ridiculousness like requiring a full set of X11 libs in order to build vim, and the X11 requires true type, which requires pango, which requires blah blah blah. This is something unavoidable to a certain extent when you base your distro on binary packages since you can't anticipate what features the end user is going to want to use. The alternative is to overload the package repositories with multiple different builds of every package, which is already how some of the worst offenders have been handled traditionally on Redhat based distros and AFAICT on Debian based ones to a lesser extent.

Point being, for a headless network sever running off a very small flash based root you don't want to add an extra several hundred megs of libraries that aren't ever going to ever have their associated functionality used. Likewise your executables will have a smaller memory footprint if they aren't built against all those libraries to begin with.

quote:

Gentoo unstable (or whatever the unstable branch is called) has crippled entire computers before with a long rear end recovery process.

And this is just plain stupid. Why on earth would you run anything called "unstable" and expect anything less than exactly that!??! A vanilla gentoo build is one of the most stable and easy to manage systems available. And the aforementioned lack of unneeded dependencies is one of the reasons why.

JoeNotCharles
Mar 3, 2005

Yet beyond each tree there are only more trees.

dfn_doe posted:

I'm not sure what you've said even makes any sense or addresses any of what i posted. By "dependency hell" I was referring to the trend in most modern distros to target everything to build against the maximum number of build time options. Which results is in common ridiculousness like requiring a full set of X11 libs in order to build vim, and the X11 requires true type, which requires pango, which requires blah blah blah.

The common meaning of "dependency hell" is when dependencies are completely broken, not that there's too many of them. For instance, the new version of package X adds a new dependency on Y, which has a dependency on Z, which conflicts with X so it's not possible to install them both at the same time (using the standard package manaer). Or X has a dependency on version 1 of Z, and Y has a dependency on version 2, so you can't install them both on the same system because there's no facility for installing multiple versions of Z. You'll always find a little bit of this, but "dependency hell" is when it becomes epidemic.

quote:

And this is just plain stupid. Why on earth would you run anything called "unstable" and expect anything less than exactly that!??! A vanilla gentoo build is one of the most stable and easy to manage systems available. And the aforementioned lack of unneeded dependencies is one of the reasons why.

It's probably people who come from Debian, who are used to running the "unstable" build because there are rarely serious problems with it and the stable build is very slow to update.

deimos
Nov 30, 2006

Forget it man this bat is whack, it's got poobrain!

dfn_doe posted:

And this is just plain stupid. Why on earth would you run anything called "unstable" and expect anything less than exactly that!??! A vanilla gentoo build is one of the most stable and easy to manage systems available. And the aforementioned lack of unneeded dependencies is one of the reasons why.

Unstable is not the testing branch, but some developers thought it was a good idea to publish directly to the unstable branch and break everything for a lot of people.

Also, dependency hell does not generally mean what you think it means, as posted above.

quote:

Point being, for a headless network sever running off a very small flash based root you don't want to add an extra several hundred megs of libraries that aren't ever going to ever have their associated functionality used. Likewise your executables will have a smaller memory footprint if they aren't built against all those libraries to begin with.

If it's a headless network server running off a very small flash based root, why should it be dedicating most of it's CPU power to compiling instead of disk management like a good headless system should?

Also if you can't install vim without x11, you should stop using an apt-based distro, because you clearly don't get it.

Scaevolus
Apr 16, 2007

JoeNotCharles posted:

It's probably people who come from Debian, who are used to running the "unstable" build because there are rarely serious problems with it and the stable build is very slow to update.
That's the problem, Gentoo stable = Debian unstable.

JoeNotCharles
Mar 3, 2005

Yet beyond each tree there are only more trees.

deimos posted:

Unstable is not the testing branch, but some developers thought it was a good idea to publish directly to the unstable branch and break everything for a lot of people.

Hmm, going only by this comment, it sounds to me like Gentoo and Debian use opposite meanings for their unstable and testing branches. Debian uses "unstable" for the day to day, good enough for a desktop branch, "testing" for the temporary branch that they're testing the hell out of before declaring it stable, and "stable" for the branch that's good enough for critical servers. Stuff that's brand new and barely tested at all goes to "experimental".

Sounds like Gentoo "unstable" is Debian "experimental", and Gentoo "testing" is Debian "unstable".

dfn_doe
Apr 12, 2005
I FOR ONE WELCOME OUR NEW STUPID FUCKING CATCHPHRASE OVERLORDS

deimos posted:

Also, dependency hell does not generally mean what you think it means, as posted above.

Well, that may be, but I'm trying argue semantics. The problem/situation I've described does exist and is contrary to the ultimate goals that were listed.

quote:

If it's a headless network server running off a very small flash based root, why should it be dedicating most of it's CPU power to compiling instead of disk management like a good headless system should?

If you spend all your time compiling you clearly don't understand the point of a server. Once it is running you are only going to be doing compiles to update/install packages. Likewise if /var is mounted on real disk or NFS or something, as I and others has suggested, then compiling and installing packages will not cause a significant increase in disk usage on the flash based root.

quote:

Also if you can't install vim without x11, you should stop using an apt-based distro, because you clearly don't get it.

I don't think you get it. If I install vim from a binary package AND the binary package was built with the build time options to enable X support then the binary will be dynamically linked to X11 libs which will then be an install dependency. In my experience this means that for the worst offending packages there exists multiple version of the binary packages in order to limit the number of cross dependency between packages that only provide features which aren't used. Either way you end up with multiple version which still cater to whatever the lowest common denominator is which in the case of a general use OS will be a major portion of the compile time options turned on. vi was just the first example that came to mind, another common example is ipv6, very few people use it, every major distro has ipv6 support built into every major package. Gentoo allows both of these situations to be eliminated with a "-ipv6 -X11" when you build initially.

Now I have no vested interest in which distro the OP eventually uses, I'm just trying to clarify the reasoning behind my suggestions. I'm about as agnostic as it goes as far as OS/distros go. I'm typing this on ubuntu while sitting in a meeting about dev on gentoo based servers which are being rolled to backup Solaris servers which are accesses by way of BSD based gateways; when this is over I'm going to go home and watch TV on my windows HTPC...

CrazyLittle
Sep 11, 2001





Clapping Larry

Scaevolus posted:

That's the problem, Gentoo stable = Debian unstable.

Hahahah yes. I really really loved it when Gentoo's maintainers decided that it would be a good idea to REVERT PHP5 to PHP4, thus breaking a lot of code I was working on at the time.

RoundsToZero
Dec 3, 2004

An open door is an invitation
When was this? I used to use PHP on Gentoo around the time PHP5 came out and don't remember this. All I remember is that they switched which category the php package was in, but both versions were available. Possibly PHP5 was in one but not the other. Also, no one was forcing you to downgrade, so I don't see why any of your code would have to be broken. If you already had PHP5 installed, what was keeping you from ignoring the "update"?

Regarding the linking thing on binary packages, couldn't the distro maintainers for binary distros use the --as-needed linker flag to allow applications to link against, say, libX11.so without actually needing the file present at runtime unless the code path required it? Or do I not understand how --as-needed works?

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

CrazyLittle
Sep 11, 2001





Clapping Larry

RoundsToZero posted:

When was this? I used to use PHP on Gentoo around the time PHP5 came out and don't remember this. All I remember is that they switched which category the php package was in, but both versions were available. Possibly PHP5 was in one but not the other. Also, no one was forcing you to downgrade, so I don't see why any of your code would have to be broken. If you already had PHP5 installed, what was keeping you from ignoring the "update"?

It was some time around Nov/Dec 2004 I think. It's been years, and that's one headache I'm happy to forget. Having three bosses breathing down my neck because the everything broke after the CTO did "emerge update world"... well, yeah. As I remember it, we had PHP5 installed by doing "emerge php5", and then a few months later they put PHP5 on the blocked list in portage claiming it was unstable. The next update after that linked in PHP4 instead of PHP5

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply