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Schwack posted:Anybody think I'd be totally crazy to pay $6000 for a bone stock, except for a new, glass windowed top, 97 with the popular equipment package and about 90k on it? It LOOKs to be in about perfect condition, but the timing belt hasnt been done and the guy is adamant that since the CA manual says 105k it absolutely doesnt need to be done until then. He's basically right about the timing belt, and since it's a non-interference engine nothing blows up when it breaks. Our '99 is pushing near 80k on the original belt and it will probably be closer to 100k before I do a belt / waterpump.
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Nov 3, 2007 07:40
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Schwack posted:Anybody think I'd be totally crazy to pay $6000 for a bone stock, except for a new, glass windowed top, 97 with the popular equipment package and about 90k on it? It LOOKs to be in about perfect condition, but the timing belt hasnt been done and the guy is adamant that since the CA manual says 105k it absolutely doesnt need to be done until then. That said, if it goes, you're just stranded for a bit -- non-interference engine ahoy! Try and knock him down at least $500 for the timing belt job.
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Nov 3, 2007 08:42
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destructo posted:gently caress that, the miles are too high, and the timing belt really needs to be done every 60k or so, the California thing is a state law, there has to be a good reason why Mazda recommends it every 60k. Replacing it isn't (overly) hard either. Unless you're doing the water pump, I can't imagine it costing more than $200. If you're fairly handy with tools, you can do it yourself.
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Nov 3, 2007 10:53
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leica posted:Well poo poo, I guess the Boxster is the way to go, especially if you plan on selling it after a few years to take advantage of the resale. BUT.....Have you tried sitting in a NA Miata? They have more room than a NB, not to mention a "foamectomy" helps a lot too. I went to test drive that 2008 Miata today, but it had been sold. The only NCs they had on the lot were manual, which I suck at, but I took one out anyhow. The car drove about like I expected, but didn't have the power I thought it would- in fact, it was more in line with the complaints I've heard about miatas being anemic in the power department. Sure, it was ballasted with 150lbs of salesman, but still... He was talking about a cheap mod that would add 30-40hp. Which didn't sound right- I mean, wouldn't Mazda have built it like that if it was that easy? Are there any aftermarket mods to bump up the hp? How long do the soft-tops last before they need replaced?
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Nov 3, 2007 18:14
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Did you run the car out all the way to redline?
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Nov 3, 2007 18:34
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vex posted:Did you run the car out all the way to redline?
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Nov 3, 2007 19:04
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grover posted:I tromped the gas as hard as it went, trying to gauge the torque curves. Didn't even seem to have the power of my V6 camaro. (0-60 times are comparable between the two on paper, but I was expecting it to be a little peppier.) I don't don't mind using the whole engine, if that's what it takes to get power. It's not enough to break the sale, but I was still a tad disappointed. That doesn't really answer the question  This was a common 'issue' with the RX-8, too - you may not realize it but if you're not looking at the tach, you may be shifting anywhere from 500 to 1500RPM (or even more in the case of the RX-8) too soon. In the NA and NB Miatas (having never driven an NC I can't confirm for them but I doubt it's changed that much) you need to shift near the ragged edge of the rev limiter to make the most of the engine. The BP four-cylinder in the NA and NB is perfectly happy with seeing 7000RPM nearly every single day - I know ours does Soft-top life varies widely, and is more based on care (and where you are) than anything else. My sister-in-law's '95M still has a pristine top, except for the plastic window which has gone completely opaque - the car was a garage queen for most of its life. Our '99 has two nasty holes in the corners because the previous owners were jerks who don't know how to cover a car (or avoid running over paintcans, or put underbody parts together correctly). We're in Arizona, where care is a bigger issue than most areas thanks to the near-constant sun.
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Nov 3, 2007 19:22
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IOwnCalculus posted:This was a common 'issue' with the RX-8, too - you may not realize it but if you're not looking at the tach, you may be shifting anywhere from 500 to 1500RPM (or even more in the case of the RX-8) too soon. In the NA and NB Miatas (having never driven an NC I can't confirm for them but I doubt it's changed that much) you need to shift near the ragged edge of the rev limiter to make the most of the engine. The BP four-cylinder in the NA and NB is perfectly happy with seeing 7000RPM nearly every single day - I know ours does I've noticed I'll shift a good 1-2K shy of the redline in spirited around the town driving and it still feels quicker than my old VR6 GTI ever did (which I realize is hardly a fast car, but it's nothing I would call anemic). I actually find myself watching the tach when I'm getting on it because I'll find myself shifting early otherwise. The MZR seems just as happy as the BP to kiss 7000 on a regular basis. Grover, did you drive a 5 speed or 6 speed? The 6 speed was noticeably peppier and quicker when I test drove. Also, In my experience, at the lot the tourings with 6 speeds go for the same price as base 5 speeds; they love to pile options on the base ones, while leaving the tourings relatively stripped.
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Nov 3, 2007 19:40
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PeterWeller posted:Grover, did you drive a 5 speed or 6 speed? The 6 speed was noticeably peppier and quicker when I test drove. Also, In my experience, at the lot the tourings with 6 speeds go for the same price as base 5 speeds; they love to pile options on the base ones, while leaving the tourings relatively stripped. My camaro has a LOT of low-end torque, any I was expecting this to be the same- it wasn't. grover fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Nov 3, 2007 |
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Nov 3, 2007 19:55
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grover posted:I tromped the gas as hard as it went, trying to gauge the torque curves. Didn't even seem to have the power of my V6 camaro. (0-60 times are comparable between the two on paper, but I was expecting it to be a little peppier.) I don't don't mind using the whole engine, if that's what it takes to get power. It's not enough to break the sale, but I was still a tad disappointed. Tromping the gas doesn't mean you stayed on throttle all the way to power peak. Being used to something with more torque is probably going to give you the habit of shifting well before 7,000 rpm, as well as being used to low end torque. Test drive it again and make sure you shift just before redline.
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Nov 3, 2007 19:55
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My car (NA) feels NOTICABLY faster if I take it all the way out to redline. Assuming they kept that true in the NC, you really do need to do that. My car seems to be fastest when I use the fuel cut to pop out of gear, slam into the next. Sounds cool, too! Krakkles fucked around with this message at 20:00 on Nov 3, 2007 |
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Nov 3, 2007 19:55
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vex posted:Tromping the gas doesn't mean you stayed on throttle all the way to power peak. Being used to something with more torque is probably going to give you the habit of shifting well before 7,000 rpm, as well as being used to low end torque. Test drive it again and make sure you shift just before redline. Well if he's looking to get an auotmatic it won't make any difference because the car will never see anywhere near the redline. In other words it will be extremely boring. Grover, if you want an automatic with decent power, you should probably stay away from Miatas. Hell, I don't know of any roadster that is powerful and fun to drive with an automatic, maybe a BMW M roadster. You can't expect a Miata to have anywhere near the torque of a Camaro. Maybe you should look into a convertible Mustang or something.
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Nov 3, 2007 20:44
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grover posted:It was a 5-speed sport model; I'm looking more at a touring w/auto, though. I'll test-drive an auto when it comes up; I may very well have been shifting early. Oy, don't do this.  If you thought the manual version was down on power (because you were shifting too soon), then you'll never, ever see power in the automatic. They might as well redline the autos at 4500 RPM, because it sure as hell won't let you get up to 6-7000 RPM and hold it.
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Nov 3, 2007 20:51
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grover posted:It was a 5-speed sport model; I'm looking more at a touring w/auto, though. I'll test-drive an auto when it comes up; I may very well have been shifting early. You need to drive the six speed and get this silly little notion of buying an automatic Miata out of your head.  I can see why the Miata felt anemic to you if you were expecting even V6 Camaro levels of torque. Like everyone else has said, the Miata is a revver and you need to whip the piss out of that motor to feel its power.
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Nov 3, 2007 21:11
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leica posted:Grover, if you want an automatic with decent power, you should probably stay away from Miatas. Hell, I don't know of any roadster that is powerful and fun to drive with an automatic, maybe a BMW M roadster. You can't expect a Miata to have anywhere near the torque of a Camaro. Maybe you should look into a convertible Mustang or something.  But then, it's $30k more. The Tiptronic Boxster I drove (not S) was very peppy- didn't have unlimited acceleration, but I wasn't really left wanting more.The Miata has way better cupholders, though. I'm not being sarcastic, either- it's little things like these that make or break a car as a daily driver for me. This is going to be a fun car for me, but must be practical for commuting, too. BTW, I'm well used to near-redlining my Camaro to eke maximum power from the little V6, so revving the engine doesn't bother me. grover fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Nov 3, 2007 |
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Nov 3, 2007 21:20
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grover posted:The Miata has way better cupholders, though. I'm not being sarcastic, either- it's little things like these that make or break a car as a daily driver for me. This is going to be a fun car for me, but must be practical for commuting, too. BTW, I'm well used to near-redlining my Camaro to eke maximum power from the little V6, so revving the engine doesn't bother me. Then you really should get a manual Miata if you want to be able to have fun with it. You can't keep the motor in it's "sweet spot" with an auto. Automatic Miatas are for old people that just like to cruise around at 1500 rpm all day long with the top down. If you are set on an automatic, you should get the Boxster if it has enough power for you.
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Nov 3, 2007 21:44
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You can alter it with driving style (it's much more rev-happy an engine than you're probably used to), but there's really no getting around the Miata engine's lack of nutsack. You just have to figure whether it's a dealbreaker for you.
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Nov 3, 2007 23:05
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I just can't peg your miata guys. I made a comment a few months ago about miatas being underpowered cars and was jumped on about how wrong I was, how fast they were, etc. Now I'm hearing the exact opposite? LOL! And no, it's not a dealbreaker. It's less power than I had expected, but there's still an engine under the hood. Please tell me a Miata can at least take a PT Cruiser in a quarter mile though?
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Nov 3, 2007 23:10
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grover posted:I just can't peg your miata guys. I made a comment a few months ago about miatas being underpowered cars and was jumped on about how wrong I was, how fast they were, etc. Now I'm hearing the exact opposite? LOL! Yes. And I'm not knocking the Miata- it's not underpowered, but it's not a fast car. Which is actually kind of its charm- the old "more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow" thing.
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Nov 3, 2007 23:12
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grover posted:I just can't peg your miata guys. I made a comment a few months ago about miatas being underpowered cars and was jumped on about how wrong I was, how fast they were, etc. Now I'm hearing the exact opposite? LOL! And no, it's not a dealbreaker. It's less power than I had expected, but there's still an engine under the hood.  That's weird. I've never heard anyone argue about the lack of power, it's pretty much a given. Unless people were talking about putting turbos on them. The Miata is a momentum car, and it was never meant to be fast off the line. You won't get blown away by minivans, but don't expect to keep up with even a V6 Mustang. And Hagetaka is right, being able to "drive a slow car fast" is one of the endearing qualities of the Miata. You can push it really hard and not worry about it biting you in the rear end.
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Nov 3, 2007 23:46
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Yeah, whenever someone complains about how "anemic" or "underpowered" the MX-5 is, they usually haven't gone all the way to 6500+ RPM. It makes its peak torque at 5500 and peak power at 6500 if I recall correctly. I wouldn't say it's a fast car (because that's generally something people ask. "Is it fast?  ") but it's not lethargic for sure. And taking it through roundabouts at 70km/h is awesome.
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Nov 4, 2007 00:27
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leica posted:Grover, if you want an automatic with decent power, you should probably stay away from Miatas. Hell, I don't know of any roadster that is powerful and fun to drive with an automatic A mercedes SLK500, or perhaps an AMG variant? Slightly different price range, tho. Maybe you could find a Z32 300ZX TT convertible and give that a shot? The auto in those is pretty well suited to the torque.
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Nov 4, 2007 02:49
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I'm now the very proud owner of a 2006 Touring: I don't know about the auto, but I never once felt I didn't have enough power. The manual is a joy and it's simply a blast to drive.
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Nov 4, 2007 08:25
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I was looking into maybe buying a beater for a year until my wife's car is paid off and I can afford a $25k car, but it just dawned on my that I can get a 84 month loan with interest debt cheaper than buying a beater would cost. Which means... I can afford my new car in 4 months, not 14   The 84 month loan is a half-pt higher interest, and taken to term, I'd pay an extra $2200 in interest... But if I overpay and pay it off in 36 months anyhow, as I intend, it's only about a $300 difference. And minimum payment would be $100/month cheaper if we were tight that month. grover fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Nov 4, 2007 |
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Nov 4, 2007 18:28
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An 84 month loan? Holy poo poo, I didn't know they did that now
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Nov 4, 2007 18:29
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leica posted:Well if he's looking to get an auotmatic it won't make any difference because the car will never see anywhere near the redline. In other words it will be extremely boring. I guess you missed my post earlier in this thread about the auto NC I rented -- their user controlled 6 speed slushbox acutally holds gears all the way to the rev limiter. It wasn't as fun as a manual tranny, but it only upshifted when I wanted. It was fast and snappy enough that I found myself constantly shifting for no reason all day long... up up up up down down up down up down down up up down, which was probably hard on the transmission (and all the runs to redline were probably hard on the motor) but whatevs.
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Nov 4, 2007 18:29
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LOL, blooot- thanks for the clarification Hagetaka posted:An 84 month loan? Holy poo poo, I didn't know they did that now Neither did I! They'll go to 120 months on a $40k, too. Talk about overextending, heh. With a loan like that, you're pretty much guaranteed to lose money on a trade-in and be stuck with the car 10 years, whether you want to or not. http://psecu.com/Rates/index.asp?WhichRates=AutoRates Navy Federal Credit Union has the same rates and terms; I have accounts with both credit unions and could use either to finance. code:grover fucked around with this message at 18:41 on Nov 4, 2007 |
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Nov 4, 2007 18:33
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poo poo, why not 360 month loans Call it the "auto mortgage". You can finally have that Gallardo on your McDonald's salary. Just make sure your kid knows he's responsible for the loan when you die.
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Nov 4, 2007 18:35
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Hagetaka posted:poo poo, why not 360 month loans
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Nov 4, 2007 18:39
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grover posted:I was looking into maybe buying a beater for a year until my wife's car is paid off and I can afford a $25k car, but it just dawned on my that I can get a 84 month loan with interest debt cheaper than buying a beater would cost. Except that the beater can be resold.
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Nov 4, 2007 18:46
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IOwnCalculus posted:Except that the beater can be resold. The other option is status-quo: I could just keep repairing my Camaro. I have no idea what's wrong with it right now, though, other than I have 4 unrelated problems that could potentially drop the car at any given moment with. Also, it's 13 years old and I want something nicer. And after looking at Miatas, Boxsters, etc, I'm VERY excited about getting a new car, heh 
grover fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Nov 4, 2007 |
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Nov 4, 2007 18:48
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Clearly your idea of beater is different than mine: There's not $1k in depreciation to even be had when the car is barely worth $1k
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Nov 4, 2007 18:57
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IOwnCalculus posted:Clearly your idea of beater is different than mine: That's not even a beater. All its body panels are still the same color and all the wheels match!
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Nov 4, 2007 19:47
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leica posted:Grover, if you want an automatic with decent power, you should probably stay away from Miatas. Hell, I don't know of any roadster that is powerful and fun to drive with an automatic, maybe a BMW M roadster. You can't expect a Miata to have anywhere near the torque of a Camaro. Maybe you should look into a convertible Mustang or something. 350Z Vert.
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Nov 4, 2007 19:57
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7744 posted:350Z Vert. Yeah, but I'm sure he wants something that looks good too.
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Nov 4, 2007 21:56
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PeterWeller posted:Yeah, but I'm sure he wants something that looks good too.  At this point, I've pretty much narrowed it down to a 2003-ish Porsche Boxster or an NC Miata (Touring package), probably new. A lot depends on what Boxsters are available, and how my Camaro holds up. 
grover fucked around with this message at 22:30 on Nov 4, 2007 |
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Nov 4, 2007 22:27
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mobn posted:That's not even a beater. All its body panels are still the same color and all the wheels match! Not shown: Duct-taped left taillight, bent wheels, dragging / melted rear under-bumper trim, clamped-on tailpipe extension to keep it from melting the bumper again
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Nov 5, 2007 06:01
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IOwnCalculus posted:Not shown: Duct-taped left taillight, bent wheels, dragging / melted rear under-bumper trim, clamped-on tailpipe extension to keep it from melting the bumper again A man after my own heart. My old Taurus had three different colored body panels, a back hatch (it was a wagon) that only the glass would open on, and a different wheel at each corner (it ate tires in fun and exciting ways). It also had nonfunctioning power windows, so you had to leave them a bit cracked or a bit up so you could pull them up or push them down with your hands.
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Nov 5, 2007 06:54
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I noticed in the NC documentation that it require premium fuel. What's the drawback to using regular 87 octane? I imagine the computer would automatically adjust timing, etc, to compensate and prevent pinging- loss of power? Additional engine wear? I downloaded the Boxster owner's manual last night, too. Several things stood out as rather frightening- for example, the only way to get to a dead battery is via electronic means to open the trunk. So, if it dies, you have to use this special trunk-opening stud in the fuse box to "jump open" the trunk with another car (or battery) to get to the battery. So, I'm leaning more towards the miata now Guess that's incentive to keep jumper cables in the glove box, huh?
grover fucked around with this message at 11:48 on Nov 5, 2007 |
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Nov 5, 2007 11:44
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grover posted:I noticed in the NC documentation that it require premium fuel. That's odd. I used to work at a Mazda dealer not too long ago, and the only cars that we put premium in were the turbo cars.
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Nov 5, 2007 14:18
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