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Vivek posted:What was left hanging about that first thing? (He's talking about Veronica Mars, in case it was unclear) he murdered lily and got away with it, pretty much the entire mystery of the first season became pointless because of it
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Aug 9, 2009 21:58
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Err, you sure about that? Remember Clarence Wiedman?
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Aug 9, 2009 21:59
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... god drat it
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Aug 9, 2009 22:36
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Currently working my way through season 4 of BSG on DVD, just finished seasons two of Reaper & Pushing Daisies. Before that, found I had all 13 eps of Day Break unwatched so went through that while working nights. Supernatural season 4 next. I'm way behind with my watching.
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Aug 10, 2009 11:10
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spookygonk posted:Currently working my way through season 4 of BSG on DVD, just finished seasons two of Reaper & Pushing Daisies. Before that, found I had all 13 eps of Day Break unwatched so went through that while working nights. I have been procrastinating the last season of BSG, because I was starting to feel watching the show was a chore. Is it worth the time and... "effort"?
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Aug 10, 2009 14:30
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Jarl posted:I have been procrastinating the last season of BSG, because I was starting to feel watching the show was a chore. Is it worth the time and... "effort"? Season 4.0 is definitely worth the effort simply for the awesome payoff in the midseason finale. Season 4.5 has some great moments but the series finale has a 50% love, 50% hate ratio here so it may not be worth trudging through the sheer boredom that comes before. You may want to consider just watching S4.0, then downloading (through iTunes or Amazon, of course) "Sometimes a Great Notion" if you are getting loosing interest. It was intended to serve as the series finale if BSG didn't return from the Writer's Strike and (if you prefer downer endings) probably does a better job than the actual series finale.
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Aug 10, 2009 15:39
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Leviathan posted:I think the frustration from last season's finale outweighs any fun I had drinking whenever Jack made a funny face. The frustration was high, I grant you that. But that is part of the fun for me, too. Talking about it with people at work, discussing theories, counting down to the new season, etc. is all part of the experience for me. Bonk posted:I realize it [The Sopranos] was an important show that paved the way for a lot of other great television, and I appreciate what it did for popular culture. But I came to the conclusion that I didn't really like the characters, and wouldn't have missed the show when it was over. Maybe someday I'll go back and watch the whole thing end to end, but for now I'm putting it way on the back burner. I have a lot more shows I'd like to watch before it. I could not disagree with this post more. I have never been as invested in characters as I was in that show, I really feel that they are written as well as anything has ever been written for television or film.
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Aug 10, 2009 18:03
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Ishamael posted:The frustration was high, I grant you that. But that is part of the fun for me, too. Talking about it with people at work, discussing theories, counting down to the new season, etc. is all part of the experience for me. I mean, what's the point in trying to drum up theories when literally anything, no matter how implausible, can happen? It's a completely futile exercise trying to predict anything. A good mystery story should be one in which the audience, with enough inspection, can arrive at a close answer to the truth before the detective delivers The Summation. As a contrast, I loved watching Veronica Mars weekly. VM's big mystery, especially the one in season 1, was wonderfully crafted and made perfect sense. That was a lot of fun watching weekly, trying to pick out what details were important, etc. But for Lost, I would definitely recommend waiting until a given season is finished before watching it.
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Aug 10, 2009 18:24
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Nate RFB posted:I mean, what's the point in trying to drum up theories when literally anything, no matter how implausible, can happen? It's a completely futile exercise trying to predict anything. A good mystery story should be one in which the audience, with enough inspection, can arrive at a close answer to the truth before the detective delivers The Summation. That seems like an arbitrary definition of a good mystery.
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Aug 10, 2009 19:06
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Ishamael posted:That seems like an arbitrary definition of a good mystery. Uh, how so? Almost all good mysteries are improbable but still plausible, i.e. deduction can lead to decent conclusion even if you're stumped most of the time. Lost is just so random and so loving far out there that the 'guessing' part of the mystery becomes tedious, and after awhile, meaningless.
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Aug 10, 2009 19:55
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Leviathan posted:Uh, how so? Almost all good mysteries are improbable but still plausible, i.e. deduction can lead to decent conclusion even if you're stumped most of the time. Lost is just so random and so loving far out there that the 'guessing' part of the mystery becomes tedious, and after awhile, meaningless. That's kind of the point of Lost, though. I think trying to force it into the category of "plausible," let alone "mystery," is doing it a disservice. It's not like a detective novel, it's a sci-fi conspiracy/adventure show. If it even approached plausible it would in no way be as entertaining as it is. You're watching it wrong.
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Aug 10, 2009 20:56
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EX-GAIJIN AT LAST posted:You're watching it wrong. Nate RFB fucked around with this message at 21:02 on Aug 10, 2009 |
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Aug 10, 2009 21:00
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Lost has ghosts and time travel. Looking for logic and plausibility is not a good idea. I watch Lost week by week when it airs and it's fine.
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Aug 10, 2009 21:00
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EX-GAIJIN AT LAST posted:That's kind of the point of Lost, though. I think trying to force it into the category of "plausible," let alone "mystery," is doing it a disservice. It's not like a detective novel, it's a sci-fi conspiracy/adventure show. If it even approached plausible it would in no way be as entertaining as it is. You're watching it wrong. Despite how implausible it is, the show has it's own logic and never breaks from it. This is why it's hard for me to watch a show like Heroes because the show doesn't seem to have any rules that it follows and pretty much tells the audience, "Remember what happened? Ok good, forget that we're going in a new direction."
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Aug 10, 2009 21:21
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I watch Lost weekly as well but only because I don't have the willpower to let the entire season sit on my DVR. When I was at basic training/tech school I missed half of season 2 and all of season 3, and marathoning it was one of the most satisfying TV-watching experiences I've had. However, as has been said, you literally cannot talk to anyone that watches the show or read anything on the internet or it'll be ruined. While I still loved watching all those episodes I heard about the season 3 finale and I know it would have been so much more epic if I had found it what was happening during that episode. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Lost can literally bring tears to my eyes at times, like the Season 4 episode "The Constant". The show has its flaws, but it is simply amazing in how entertaining it can be with the drama, mystery, conspiracy, adventure, and sci-fi elements.
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Aug 10, 2009 21:30
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CaptainHollywood posted:Despite how implausible it is, the show has it's own logic and never breaks from it. This is why it's hard for me to watch a show like Heroes because the show doesn't seem to have any rules that it follows and pretty much tells the audience, "Remember what happened? Ok good, forget that we're going in a new direction." I also hate how much heroes builds you up and then lets you down. Spend some goddamn money and let us see a proper battle between Peter and Sylar. The fact that in season 1 and 3 they've squared off only to have a door close and we get to "imagine" what is happening behind that door with the sounds of explosions and lights is just loving retarded.
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Aug 10, 2009 21:34
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I agree that Lost is really difficult to watch when you have to wait a week between episodes, but I think it's a blast. I watched the first 2.5ish seasons on DVD/itunes and then started watching it on TV after that, and as much fun as it is to marathon, if you have people to watch it with as it's on, it's way better. Screaming at the TV with friends (and explaining the episode to my parents during commercial breaks) is half the fun!Aluminum Record posted:Lost can literally bring tears to my eyes at times, like the Season 4 episode "The Constant". The show has its flaws, but it is simply amazing in how entertaining it can be with the drama, mystery, conspiracy, adventure, and sci-fi elements. I seriously needed a week to recover after watching that episode. SO GOOD. I was sitting there clinging to my friend and sobbing but it was totally worth it. As for what I've been marathoning, I've gotten through two seasons of The West Wing and my GOD what a show. I love it so much. Big Block of Cheese Day is my favorite day ever! And though it's so hard to pick a favorite character because they're all so amazing, I just freakin adore CJ, though I am of course in love with both Josh and Sam.
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Aug 10, 2009 22:28
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Count Choculitis posted:As for what I've been marathoning, I've gotten through two seasons of The West Wing and my GOD what a show. I love it so much. Big Block of Cheese Day is my favorite day ever! And though it's so hard to pick a favorite character because they're all so amazing, I just freakin adore CJ, though I am of course in love with both Josh and Sam. Drinking game for you, take a sip whenever: Josh says "Donna!" The President brings the trivia A supporting character has a moustache Toby uses the Ziegler ball Whenever there's a moment which just screams "AMERICA"
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Aug 10, 2009 23:54
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Most people I've seen that still claim Lost is making it up as it goes along stopped watching around season 2 or 3. They've gone a long way since then to show that they really have been planting seeds for later seasons. Regardless, I don't get why people only seem to care about the mystery. Yes they raise a lot of questions but those answers are doled out on a steady, gradual basis. Most of the complaining is about wanting big answers to the biggest questions (which we're not getting all at once either). The tipping point of that was after the halfway mark, I would say. If you only ever watch shows or films for the reveals or big twist endings, maybe you should just rent a Shyamalan film and fast-forward to the last 5 minutes. Ishamael posted:I could not disagree with this post more. I have never been as invested in characters as I was in that show, I really feel that they are written as well as anything has ever been written for television or film.
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Aug 11, 2009 00:41
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Bonk posted:Regardless, I don't get why people only seem to care about the mystery.
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Aug 11, 2009 00:49
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Nate RFB posted:Since trying to predict and make theories about the plot are not worth the effort... I think a bunch of people at darkufo and lostpedia (or for that matter anyone who watches the show and knows at least one other human being who watches the show) would beg to differ. Don't tell me that Lost isn't about mystery just because the reveals are completely goddamn arbitrary and/or nonexistent. I'm pretty sure I'm watching it right, but unlike some I can only take so many undeveloped plot points and totally random cliffhangers. The character development/drama in Lost? Absolutely great. But watching a bunch of writers' thought experiments for 5 seasons? Christ.
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Aug 11, 2009 04:01
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I think Lost has 2 driving forces behind it: surprise and mythology. If you remember the old trope about suspense vs. surprise, suspense is when there is a bomb under someone's chair and the audience knows about it, surprise is when the audience doesn't. Lost loves surprise, and it is what makes it a great show to watch with friends. Oh holy poo poo! I can't believe X happened! And the writing is strong enough that, for me at least, I get totally sucked into it. For that reason, it isn't as rewatchable as some shows because the surprise factor can't be recaptured. But drat if it isn't fun to watch as it happens. The second part, mythology, seems to be where a lot of people get turned off. Lost has created a very sprawling mythology that covers stuff from science to the supernatural, ancient myths, mysteries that will never be solved, etc. Personally, I love the mythology building. The more intricate and interwoven it gets, the more fun I have. A lot of people get turned off because, for some reason, they have created a line that they won't cross. "Oh, that was a weird ghost/hallucination, that's stupid." And then they tune out. There was a guy like that at work. Once the smoke monster killed someone, he was totally turned off because it wasn't realistic enough. Personally, realism isn't what I look for in my sci-fi adventure. I like all the twists and changes and loop-backs, and the fact that it never loses its own (very twisted) logic. And it really draws me in. But, to each their own.
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Aug 11, 2009 16:46
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It's not realism that I'm missing- it's internal coherence. The mythology would be much more fascinating if I truly had the sense that the bulk of the series was planned out beforehand, but rather there's a very real feeling that much of the storyline was put together ad hoc. Just a quick glance at this page tells you that the writers bit off way more than they could chew.
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Aug 11, 2009 17:42
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I just got the US dvd release of the UK "Life On Mars." I love Harvey Keitel so I watched a few episodes of the US version, but I was seriously underwhelmed. I thought the concept was so good and so clever, but it was really dumbed down and wasted in the US series. The UK one got terrific reviews from everywhere, though, and John Simm's a good actor in everything else I've seen him in, so I splashed out on the UK series during Deep Discount's 25% sale. I started watching this over the weekend and I am having the weirdest TV binge ever; I can't get past the first episode because I've re-watched it like four times. The writing is excellent, there is so much detail, so many possible explanations for what's happening to Sam (coma? nuts? dead and in some kind of polyester purgatory? time-traveled?), and the acting is fantastic. Sam's tears in the first episode, and the odd, tentative, tender little moment where he puts his hand on Annie's chest to feel her heartbeat (and she understands why) -- you don't see that kind of underplaying on US television very often. And on the opposite side of underplaying, Philip Glenister makes Gene Hunt into a character you can't take your eyes off whenever he's on the screen, a monstrous ball of vices and prejudices who is somehow also both a good cop and, on his own terms, a good man. I think I'm going to continue to ration out all the episodes of Series One so I can savor them, and keep my fingers crossed for Series Two also being released in the US on dvd. I haven't seen a television show this intelligent and intriguing in a long time. Why is network tv in the States never this good?
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Aug 11, 2009 18:25
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oh ok posted:Why is network tv in the States never this good? Because in the US, network TV is driven by advertising dollars - in the UK, every resident with a TV (maybe even those without one, I forget) pays a license fee (think of it like a TV tax) so the BBC isn't worried about money. They have a guaranteed amount of cash coming to them every single year no matter what the air. This allows them to take far more chances than their American counterparts. Also, check out FX (Rescue Me, Sons of Anarchy, and Damages), HBO (too many to name), and recently, Showtime if you want quality American TV.
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Aug 11, 2009 19:02
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Leviathan posted:It's not realism that I'm missing- it's internal coherence. The mythology would be much more fascinating if I truly had the sense that the bulk of the series was planned out beforehand, but rather there's a very real feeling that much of the storyline was put together ad hoc. Just a quick glance at this page tells you that the writers bit off way more than they could chew. I don't think that having unanswered questions means it lacks internal coherence. Lost is not a mystery, there isn't an "answer". It's a mysterious adventure. You don't have to explain every single moment that deviates from reality for it to be a successful story.
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Aug 11, 2009 19:13
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I'm currently about halfway through Band of Brothers. Why didn't anybody force me to watch this before now? It's amazing.
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Aug 11, 2009 19:25
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Just finished Jekyll last week. Glad you guys recommended it. The final episode was great. When the new title card came up I got all revved up.
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Aug 11, 2009 19:34
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Ishamael posted:You don't have to explain every single moment that deviates from reality for it to be a successful story. You make it sound like there's only a couple plot points here and there that are unexplained. From Adam and Eve until now they've been creating mythology that's conveniently passed over- what's the point of getting interested in the mythology when it's probably (based on the number of unanswered questions) just going to get completely ignored? Anyway, don't get me wrong...I like Lost enough that I've binged through the entire series twice, but we're just gonna have to agree to disagree on whether its unanswered questions/cliffhangers detract from its appeal. Also, can you guys tell me some of your favorite 90's shows?
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Aug 12, 2009 00:10
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Leviathan posted:Also, can you guys tell me some of your favorite 90's shows? Babylon 5.
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Aug 12, 2009 03:10
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Leviathan posted:You make it sound like there's only a couple plot points here and there that are unexplained. From Adam and Eve until now they've been creating mythology that's conveniently passed over- what's the point of getting interested in the mythology when it's probably (based on the number of unanswered questions) just going to get completely ignored? Anyway, don't get me wrong...I like Lost enough that I've binged through the entire series twice, but we're just gonna have to agree to disagree on whether its unanswered questions/cliffhangers detract from its appeal. Adam and Eve is a bad example because the writers have said over and over that Adam and Eve will only be answered at the very end of the series. Anyway, I looked over that list you posted, and half of it is stupid poo poo that no one would ever care about, stuff that would spawn a million "Stranger in a Strange Land" type episodes.
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Aug 12, 2009 03:13
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Leviathan posted:Also, can you guys tell me some of your favorite 90's shows? Millennium, The X-Files, Andy Richter Controls The Universe, Batman: The Animated Series (no, really), Buffy: The Vampire Slayer, Angel, and Sliders. Also: EX-GAIJIN AT LAST posted:Babylon 5.
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Aug 12, 2009 03:14
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Leviathan posted:Also, can you guys tell me some of your favorite 90's shows? Hands down it was Profit. The special effects haven't aged well at all, but the show was way ahead of its time otherwise.
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Aug 12, 2009 03:55
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bonestructure posted:Hands down it was Profit. The special effects haven't aged well at all, but the show was way ahead of its time otherwise. Your favorite show of the 90's, was a program that got 4 episodes in 1996 until some 3rd rate cable channel aired the remainder (just 4 more) 6 years after the fact? The show didn't even get a DVD release until 2005. I'm not knocking the show, just a strange choice for your favorite.
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Aug 12, 2009 04:03
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Vivek posted:Adam and Eve is a bad example because the writers have said over and over that Adam and Eve will only be answered at the very end of the series. Anyway, I looked over that list you posted, and half of it is stupid poo poo that no one would ever care about, stuff that would spawn a million "Stranger in a Strange Land" type episodes. I don't think you made it past the 'Flight 815 Survivors' section (and if you did but you don't care about the Others/Island questions then we must not be watching the same show). JustV posted:Andy Richter Controls The Universe I'm def checking this out.
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Aug 12, 2009 04:16
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Leviathan posted:I don't think you made it past the 'Flight 815 Survivors' section (and if you did but you don't care about the Others/Island questions then we must not be watching the same show). Why is the Swan ladder broken? How did Karl and Alex got together? Why is the Hydra on the other island? Where is Radzinsky buried? Why is there a blah blah logo on the hurf durf door? The answer to all of these is "who gives a poo poo". And this is coming from a lore nerd. Ishamael posted:Just finished Jekyll last week. Glad you guys recommended it. The final episode was great. When the new title card came up I got all revved up. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2N1-e6Kwkg Bonk fucked around with this message at 04:52 on Aug 12, 2009 |
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Aug 12, 2009 04:50
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Bonk I swear you are the king of the Lost apologists. Jack could take a steaming dump on Locke's chest and you'd be eating it up as preplanned. What about characters like Libby or Walt that have been ignored way more than they should've? We're at the end of 5 seasons and we arguably have little more than scarce details about : Agelessness Character connections Dreams and visions Electromagnetism Healing The "magic box" Mediumship The Monster The Numbers Pregnancy issue Premonitions The Rules Time travel Whispers How long is this show supposed to run again? Leviathan fucked around with this message at 12:42 on Aug 12, 2009 |
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Aug 12, 2009 06:35
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Leviathan posted:
Homicide, Star Trek DS9, Animaniacs, and The Simpsons
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Aug 12, 2009 08:26
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Dude, no offense, but can you guys either spoiler all that poo poo or keep the Lost chat to a minimum?
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Aug 12, 2009 08:54
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Jedi posted:Your favorite show of the 90's, was a program that got 4 episodes in 1996 until some 3rd rate cable channel aired the remainder (just 4 more) 6 years after the fact? The show didn't even get a DVD release until 2005. The "favorite" part is about quality and not quantity, right? From the moment Profit gets thoroughly tongue-kissed by a hot cougar and then says "Hi, mom" I knew that show was not long for this world, but it was amazing while it lasted.
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Aug 12, 2009 12:47
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