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Cichlidae
Aug 12, 2005

ME LOVE
MAKE RED LIGHT


Dr. Infant, MD

quazi posted:

The speed limits on those can't possibly be 65, right?! I'm only counting 7 or 8 dotted lines in the road, and I'm not seeing any collectors or distributors. Wow.

The speed limits vary, but the limit itself isn't important, only the 85th %ile speed. If there's a flat, long, straight stretch of road, weaving section or not, some people are going to drive 70+ regardless of the limit. It's not good practice to lower the limit on a small stretch of road, anyway. If we're going to do it, we'll lower the limit on a 5-mile-long stretch or so through a whole city with a few tough interchanges.

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Cichlidae
Aug 12, 2005

ME LOVE
MAKE RED LIGHT


Dr. Infant, MD

Choadmaster posted:

Okay, I looked around Minneapolis / St. Paul for a bit using Google maps. I didn't find the specific really terrible one I was remembering, but I did count dozens of cloverleafs in the space of a few minutes.

Cichlidae, I thought you said our grandchildren would probably never see one of those. Apparently they're still building them in Minnesota:


Hey, they've still got 50 years to realize what they've done and rip it out! Cloverleafs aren't too bad, as long as there are collector/distributor roads which reduce the weaving conflicts. In fact...

quote:

This one is very short, but it doesn't connect right to the freeway, but rather to some separate lane that merges onto the freeway later:


That's a collector-distributor road. By separating the exiting/entering traffic from the through traffic, it keeps the high-speed drivers away from the ramp termini. Often, C/D roads are carried through multiple closely spaced interchanges for the same reason. They're rarely more than 2 lanes wide or a couple miles in length; in those cases, they become dual-divided freeways instead.

quote:

What the hell is up with the little divider on one of the four leafs here?


Huh, no idea. I've never seen that before. Pit stop? It could be a bus stop, but there's no way for pedestrians to cross the other ramp. I can't see much of a need for a divided loop...

quote:

Lastly, in my explorations of the area I came upon a couple of these. Never seen one before and they look pretty weird, but they also look like they might work pretty well:


That's a SPUI, a modern interchange with excellent throughput due to only using one signal. The downside is that they require an extra wide overpass.

Sin Dios
Aug 7, 2004

I grew up in countries in latin america where most of the infrastructure was EXTREMELY mediocre, would you attribute this just to a complete lack of resources, or just incompetent designers or what? Even nowadays I see them re-doing a street or a sidewalk, and it'll just look be a terrible job outright, drizzled, uneven, etc..
this is pretty much the urban standard in the downtown core, even if they redo a sidewalk within a few years or even months it'll be all grimy, dirty.. is this just lack of resources to maintain, lack of resources to build, or just bad designing? I am loving sick of this.. the 2nd photo is a street in one of the hottest cultural/tourist hot spots of the city too.. unbelieveable..

Click here for the full 1600x1200 image.


Click here for the full 1280x960 image.

the rest of the city surrounding downtown looks even worse than the downtown core cause it was built on a very chaotic, horizontal system of planning, with no density whatsoever, just houses everywhere.. the roads and sidewalks are even worse than downtown there..

Somehow this city supposedly has like one of the highest standards of living in latin america though, neverminding the fact that it looks like absolute poo poo compared to every single other city in the continent.

Sin Dios fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Sep 27, 2009

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Cichlidae posted:



Huh, no idea. I've never seen that before. Pit stop? It could be a bus stop, but there's no way for pedestrians to cross the other ramp. I can't see much of a need for a divided loop...

I think that clover has a merge light (which doesn't seem like a great idea, but they do it in MSP). I think that's a carpool/bus bypass.

Crackpipe
Jul 9, 2001

Cichlidae posted:

Chip Seal
I talked with our pavement management specialists, and they said, instead of a chip seal, we're moving toward Novachip. The difference is that Novachip acts much more like full-depth asphalt, so it can hold on to its aggregate and not be nearly as much of a pain to bikers. My biggest problem with Novachip is that we can't use our usual pavement markings. Why's that?

Normally, we use 6" white preformed plastic stripes on freeways. They're rolled into fresh asphalt, and the bitumen's heat melts the plastic, embedding them in the pavement. Unfortunately, due to how thin Novachip is (.5-.75 inches, 1-2 cm), it cools much too quickly, and the plastic doesn't melt. That means we need to use shorter-life pavement markings.

Thank you for asking them! Novachip seems like it actually has a decent lifespan and a bicycle friendly nature.

PBateman
Mar 11, 2007
Great thread...I live in LA and its a terrible driving city.

Cichlidae, have you ever studied LA's road's (more so the roads as opposed to freeways)? I'm wondering if the infamous LA traffic is all because of the ridiculous amount of cars or if its partly because of terrible design.

My biggest gripe with LA streets is that there's street parking available in the rigth lane but only during certain times and it seems to occur sporadically. So every once in a while, a two lane street suddenly becomes a one lane, which generally leads to idiots who are in a hurry speeding through the two lanes and cutting off the left lane drivers when it turns back into a single lane because of parked cars. And there's absolutely no signs that give warning, got me stuck in the right lane behind a parked car a few times when I first got here.

Do other cities do this too? I never noticed it when I lived elsewhere in northern california.

Cichlidae
Aug 12, 2005

ME LOVE
MAKE RED LIGHT


Dr. Infant, MD

Sin Dios posted:

I grew up in countries in latin america where most of the infrastructure was EXTREMELY mediocre, would you attribute this just to a complete lack of resources, or just incompetent designers or what? Even nowadays I see them re-doing a street or a sidewalk, and it'll just look be a terrible job outright, drizzled, uneven, etc..
this is pretty much the urban standard in the downtown core, even if they redo a sidewalk within a few years or even months it'll be all grimy, dirty.. is this just lack of resources to maintain, lack of resources to build, or just bad designing? I am loving sick of this.. the 2nd photo is a street in one of the hottest cultural/tourist hot spots of the city too.. unbelieveable..

Click here for the full 1600x1200 image.


Click here for the full 1280x960 image.

the rest of the city surrounding downtown looks even worse than the downtown core cause it was built on a very chaotic, horizontal system of planning, with no density whatsoever, just houses everywhere.. the roads and sidewalks are even worse than downtown there..

Somehow this city supposedly has like one of the highest standards of living in latin america though, neverminding the fact that it looks like absolute poo poo compared to every single other city in the continent.

The problem is probably a lack of money or poor local management. Your photos don't seem all that bad; I've seen some sidewalks in the USA and in France that were in similar shape. I'll assume it's worse than it looks, though. In the second picture, the paving job is atrocious. They must have had less asphalt than they needed, or just didn't want to pave over the catch basins and left a meter-wide strip of unpaved road.

You're a lot more familiar with local conditions than I am. Could there be supply problems, difficulties getting asphalt or concrete delivered on time? Their quality is highly dependent on how old the batch is and what kind of aggregate is available.

Cichlidae
Aug 12, 2005

ME LOVE
MAKE RED LIGHT


Dr. Infant, MD

nm posted:

I think that clover has a merge light (which doesn't seem like a great idea, but they do it in MSP). I think that's a carpool/bus bypass.

I'm all for cutting HOV/bus travel times, but putting a signal on a sharp curve like that, with the potential to cause cars to back up onto the freeway, doesn't seem like a good idea.

Crackpipe posted:

Thank you for asking them! Novachip seems like it actually has a decent lifespan and a bicycle friendly nature.

Yeah, I had a long chat with the pavement management guy about it, and he was really enthusiastic. Obviously it makes my job a little tougher, but I don't mind a bit of extra work if it means making the roads safer for bicyclists.

Cichlidae
Aug 12, 2005

ME LOVE
MAKE RED LIGHT


Dr. Infant, MD

PBateman posted:

Great thread...I live in LA and its a terrible driving city.

Cichlidae, have you ever studied LA's road's (more so the roads as opposed to freeways)? I'm wondering if the infamous LA traffic is all because of the ridiculous amount of cars or if its partly because of terrible design.

My biggest gripe with LA streets is that there's street parking available in the rigth lane but only during certain times and it seems to occur sporadically. So every once in a while, a two lane street suddenly becomes a one lane, which generally leads to idiots who are in a hurry speeding through the two lanes and cutting off the left lane drivers when it turns back into a single lane because of parked cars. And there's absolutely no signs that give warning, got me stuck in the right lane behind a parked car a few times when I first got here.

Do other cities do this too? I never noticed it when I lived elsewhere in northern california.

I haven't spent too much time in LA (by design), so I can't give you a detailed analysis of the city. One thing to look into would be California's laws on gridlocking. In New York, for example, gridlocking was enough of a problem that they put in some heavy fines for any car that enters an intersection without a clear exit. That includes, for example, pulling into the intersection while waiting to turn left. You can see a facsimile in Grand Theft Auto IV, where the intersections are painted with white crosshatches and signs say "Don't block the box." England has a similar thing; I believe their intersections are painted pink or purple. Only one car is allowed to enter the box at a time, ensuring that it won't become gridlocked. The parking situation you mentioned is also an issue. It's hard to imagine that a city with so much space doesn't have enough off-street parking.

The city design as a whole (LA is mostly a sprawl of suburbs) certainly doesn't help things. Whereas in most large cities, it's simple enough to commute to work via train, subway, or walking, it's nearly impossible when everything is so spread out, the result being that nearly everyone has a car. The relatively low density also makes mass transit very difficult to implement, since the origin-destination pairs are so diffuse.

Like I said, I stay out of LA, but if you'd like to do an experiment for me, I'd certainly appreciate it. Try to spend a whole week without using a car at all. Just stick to transit and walking around. Make trips as you normally would, going grocery shopping, visiting the doctor, visiting your friends... and let me know how it works. I'm curious to see what kind of provisions LA has for multimodal travel.

Jasper Tin Neck
Nov 14, 2008


"Scientifically proven, rich and creamy."

Cichlidae posted:

The problem is probably a lack of money or poor local management.

Or most likely both. Somehow this seems to me like a series of attempts to put off re-paving. The first picture doesn't actually look that bad, but in the second picture you can clearly see that the street is more a patchwork of asphalt of different types and ages than a continuous strip of asphalt.

The ironic thing is that in the long run, it will end up costing more than repaving the whole street at once. Remember kids, cutting repair funds is expensive!

unkle77
Sep 9, 2009

Please prepare me one of these... Chocolate Egg Creams.
Cichlidae, I'm studying Civil Engineering (I'm a junior) at Clemson, and my emphasis is Transpo/Highway design, and ideally, I would like to end up doing what you do (private sector, roadway design), so my questions relate more to your personal experiences in the industry rather than how-tos or whys about the design itself (hopefully, I can answer those questions myself after CE311 is done with in December).

1. Is the private sector a better choice for work than the public sector?

My understanding is that government work from state DOTs or Federal projects is simply approved and then passed off to a private firm for design, and these firms even decide the nature of the funding for the project (where it should come from, how much, etc). I'm in a class now that is a construction engineering and management course, and it's aim is basically to provide us with a broad understanding of how the industry works, but this makes it seem like there are no engineers working at the public level at all. I want to know if that's the case, in your experience, and if not, if the public sector is a good place to get my foot in the door, career-wise.

2. How essential is a PE license?
My aim is to take the FE next semester, and then again the following semester if necessary, and get on track to become a PE, but I don't know many engineers that either go for a PE or say they even need one, especially outside of Civil Engineering. For instance, none of the non-CEs that I know even thought twice about getting their PE, but the general consensus among CEs is that it's something we need. Do I really need one, or am I wasting my time? I've heard of cases where this gives me slightly higher pay than non-PEs, but I've also heard that the importance of the license depends on what state you're in, and some just don't care (whereas some, like NC, need a PE to sign off on literally every structure designed).

Thanks for your time and insight!

Basho
May 8, 2008
The other day in Seattle the city was putting in new slabs of concrete in Pioneer Square. For some reason the whole street reeked. What in the paving process smells so bad?

Cichlidae
Aug 12, 2005

ME LOVE
MAKE RED LIGHT


Dr. Infant, MD

Nesnej posted:

Or most likely both. Somehow this seems to me like a series of attempts to put off re-paving. The first picture doesn't actually look that bad, but in the second picture you can clearly see that the street is more a patchwork of asphalt of different types and ages than a continuous strip of asphalt.

The ironic thing is that in the long run, it will end up costing more than repaving the whole street at once. Remember kids, cutting repair funds is expensive!

More expensive, yes, but that's exactly what some municipalities want. I'm not going to name names so I don't risk anything, but there are definitely some people who put down shoddy pavement for the singular purpose of keeping the maintenance contractors happy with constant work. I don't agree with the ethics, but this is the kind of thing you have to deal with when money's involved.

Basho posted:

The other day in Seattle the city was putting in new slabs of concrete in Pioneer Square. For some reason the whole street reeked. What in the paving process smells so bad?

As someone who's mixed concrete with his bare hands (don't do it, it sucked) for the ASCE's Concrete Canoe competition, I can attest to concrete's bad smell. There's a lot of stuff in concrete. We put in water, aggregate, and portland cement, the three basic ingredients of concrete, plus acrylic latex, glass microspheres, Poraver, a slump-increasing admixture, air entrainment admixture, and nylon fibers.

Smelly admixtures are quite common in concrete, and the cement itself comes in many varieties, all of which have a unique odor. The overall aroma is a bit sulfuric, somewhat painful thanks to the calcium hydroxide fumes, and rather caustic. Oh, don't breathe in the cement dust; it does some nasty stuff to your lungs.

Cichlidae
Aug 12, 2005

ME LOVE
MAKE RED LIGHT


Dr. Infant, MD

unkle77 posted:

Cichlidae, I'm studying Civil Engineering (I'm a junior) at Clemson, and my emphasis is Transpo/Highway design, and ideally, I would like to end up doing what you do (private sector, roadway design), so my questions relate more to your personal experiences in the industry rather than how-tos or whys about the design itself (hopefully, I can answer those questions myself after CE311 is done with in December).

1. Is the private sector a better choice for work than the public sector?

My understanding is that government work from state DOTs or Federal projects is simply approved and then passed off to a private firm for design, and these firms even decide the nature of the funding for the project (where it should come from, how much, etc). I'm in a class now that is a construction engineering and management course, and it's aim is basically to provide us with a broad understanding of how the industry works, but this makes it seem like there are no engineers working at the public level at all. I want to know if that's the case, in your experience, and if not, if the public sector is a good place to get my foot in the door, career-wise.

We do contract out a lot of our work to consultants, but we also do a good deal ourselves. There are a few big differences between private and public, so you should choose based on what your interests are.

The public sector is low-key, not requiring too much work. It's ok to slack off when you don't have much work. The private sector (depending on your boss) is generally more concerned with how you spend your time.

The private sector has a higher base salary, but the benefits are better in the public sector. Don't expect a yearly bonus, but my dental plan, for example, is completely free, and my health insurance is only about $10 a week.

Private sector rewards experience and accomplishments, whereas the public sector rewards longevity. This contributes a bit to the "lazy state worker" stereotype. Why work harder than your coworkers if you're going to get the same raises at the same time no matter what?

quote:

2. How essential is a PE license?
My aim is to take the FE next semester, and then again the following semester if necessary, and get on track to become a PE, but I don't know many engineers that either go for a PE or say they even need one, especially outside of Civil Engineering. For instance, none of the non-CEs that I know even thought twice about getting their PE, but the general consensus among CEs is that it's something we need. Do I really need one, or am I wasting my time? I've heard of cases where this gives me slightly higher pay than non-PEs, but I've also heard that the importance of the license depends on what state you're in, and some just don't care (whereas some, like NC, need a PE to sign off on literally every structure designed).

Thanks for your time and insight!

I'd definitely recommend getting it. Not having your PE can be a major impediment to your career. So many of my older coworkers have been stuck in the same position for decades because the next step up requires a PE. It's easy to get, provided you've got the mettle to pass the FE, and it'll help you out in the long run. The only reason I can think of not to get it is if you can't afford the time and money you'd need to invest.

Oh, and obviously get it while the material's still in your head. Civil engineers have a tendency to get pigeonholed to the extent that they get extremely good at one small thing and forget the rest. Take the PE before that happens to you.

Basho
May 8, 2008

Cichlidae posted:

Smelly admixtures are quite common in concrete, and the cement itself comes in many varieties, all of which have a unique odor. The overall aroma is a bit sulfuric, somewhat painful thanks to the calcium hydroxide fumes, and rather caustic. Oh, don't breathe in the cement dust; it does some nasty stuff to your lungs.

What precautions do the workers take?

Nexis
Dec 12, 2004

Cichlidae posted:

We do contract out a lot of our work to consultants, but we also do a good deal ourselves. There are a few big differences between private and public, so you should choose based on what your interests are.

The public sector is low-key, not requiring too much work. It's ok to slack off when you don't have much work. The private sector (depending on your boss) is generally more concerned with how you spend your time.

The private sector has a higher base salary, but the benefits are better in the public sector. Don't expect a yearly bonus, but my dental plan, for example, is completely free, and my health insurance is only about $10 a week.

Private sector rewards experience and accomplishments, whereas the public sector rewards longevity. This contributes a bit to the "lazy state worker" stereotype. Why work harder than your coworkers if you're going to get the same raises at the same time no matter what?


I'd definitely recommend getting it. Not having your PE can be a major impediment to your career. So many of my older coworkers have been stuck in the same position for decades because the next step up requires a PE. It's easy to get, provided you've got the mettle to pass the FE, and it'll help you out in the long run. The only reason I can think of not to get it is if you can't afford the time and money you'd need to invest.

Oh, and obviously get it while the material's still in your head. Civil engineers have a tendency to get pigeonholed to the extent that they get extremely good at one small thing and forget the rest. Take the PE before that happens to you.

Agreed on both accounts. I am public sector. Bonuses do not exist, however regular raises generally do. The slack off time here is also nonexistent, we are always busy with something.

And your PE is a must. You can be brilliant with what you do, and can out design every PE around you, but Civil Engineers will not respect you without that piece of paper. If you are in the private or public sector, and doing jobs that affect public safety, it is an absolute must.

Cichlidae
Aug 12, 2005

ME LOVE
MAKE RED LIGHT


Dr. Infant, MD

Basho posted:

What precautions do the workers take?

Concrete's not mixed manually in construction because of how inefficient it is. Good safety gear would be the usual worksite gear (safety shoes, clothing that covers the whole body, hard hat) plus at least a facemask, preferably a ventilator, and some good gloves. Those glass microspheres get ALL over everything, sticking to your skin like oil, and they itch like fiberglass. I would want full facial coverage myself.

Cement dust can solidify in your lungs, and, if I remember correctly, it can cause some nasty diseases and cancer. If it gets on your skin, it leaches water from you and the resulting calcium hydroxide adds chemical burns.

All the same, I've seen some people working with concrete with minimal precautions. The construction field is full of dangerous situations. Anyone who's worked in the field or as an inspector can back me up on that. You can give workers dozens of safety gear, post the MSDS for every chemical, put guard rails around every hole, and they'll still do some really self-destructive things.

Der Metzgermeister
Nov 27, 2005

Denn du bist was du isst, und ihr wisst was es ist.

Cichlidae posted:

You can give workers dozens of safety gear, post the MSDS for every chemical, put guard rails around every hole, and they'll still do some really self-destructive things.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Cichlidae posted:

I'm all for cutting HOV/bus travel times, but putting a signal on a sharp curve like that, with the potential to cause cars to back up onto the freeway, doesn't seem like a good idea.


Welcome to Minnesota

Nexis
Dec 12, 2004

Cichlidae posted:

Concrete's not mixed manually in construction because of how inefficient it is. Good safety gear would be the usual worksite gear (safety shoes, clothing that covers the whole body, hard hat) plus at least a facemask, preferably a ventilator, and some good gloves. Those glass microspheres get ALL over everything, sticking to your skin like oil, and they itch like fiberglass. I would want full facial coverage myself.

Cement dust can solidify in your lungs, and, if I remember correctly, it can cause some nasty diseases and cancer. If it gets on your skin, it leaches water from you and the resulting calcium hydroxide adds chemical burns.

All the same, I've seen some people working with concrete with minimal precautions. The construction field is full of dangerous situations. Anyone who's worked in the field or as an inspector can back me up on that. You can give workers dozens of safety gear, post the MSDS for every chemical, put guard rails around every hole, and they'll still do some really self-destructive things.

I work at the intersection, out of the street, and was nearly hit by a car. My friend (and evil consultant) was in the cabinet and was hit by the car. Luckily, he just got thrown away from the cabinet. We had our vests on and everything...I am not supposed to get hit then, am I?

Also, pic of the cabinet, and the chair he was in:

Cichlidae
Aug 12, 2005

ME LOVE
MAKE RED LIGHT


Dr. Infant, MD

Nexis posted:

I work at the intersection, out of the street, and was nearly hit by a car. My friend (and evil consultant) was in the cabinet and was hit by the car. Luckily, he just got thrown away from the cabinet. We had our vests on and everything...I am not supposed to get hit then, am I?

Also, pic of the cabinet, and the chair he was in:


Unfortunately, reflective vests won't protect you from anything more than a stiff breeze. Drivers get distracted, and tend to turn the wheel where their eyes are looking. I'm glad you both came out ok; that looks like a nasty collision.

GWBBQ
Jan 2, 2005


Thought you might find this amusing, wonderful city planning in Darien.

Cichlidae posted:

In New York, for example, gridlocking was enough of a problem that they put in some heavy fines for any car that enters an intersection without a clear exit. That includes, for example, pulling into the intersection while waiting to turn left. You can see a facsimile in Grand Theft Auto IV, where the intersections are painted with white crosshatches and signs say "Don't block the box."
They don't gently caress around in NYC. That white sign says "Do not Block the Box" and the black bar says "Fine + 2 points"
11 points in NY gets your license revoked.
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=...164.18,,0,-14.8

Cichlidae posted:

The private sector has a higher base salary, but the benefits are better in the public sector. Don't expect a yearly bonus, but my dental plan, for example, is completely free, and my health insurance is only about $10 a week.
As a fellow state employee, I have to vouch for our insurance. I forget how much the state pays (something like 5-10k per year) and getting a comparable individual plan on your own would cost about $28k. Then there's the retirement plan that matches your 5% contribution with 8%.

TokenBrit
May 7, 2007
Irony isn't something that's like metal.

Cichlidae posted:

England has a similar thing; I believe their intersections are painted pink or purple.

Box junctions. They're yellow, as far as I know our painted road markings are only ever white, yellow or red.
Rule #174 here:
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070332

It's a "MUST NOT" and is an offence, backed up by legislation. Not quite as strict as New York, they're generally enforced by cameras (though it's relatively lax).

I think the fine is up to the local authority, but the ones I've seen are £120, reduced to £60 if you pay within 14 days and increased to £180 if you don't pay after 28 days.

Cichlidae
Aug 12, 2005

ME LOVE
MAKE RED LIGHT


Dr. Infant, MD

GWBBQ posted:

Thought you might find this amusing, wonderful city planning in Darien.


Not my district, thank god...

quote:

They don't gently caress around in NYC. That white sign says "Do not Block the Box" and the black bar says "Fine + 2 points"
11 points in NY gets your license revoked.
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=...164.18,,0,-14.8

As a fellow state employee, I have to vouch for our insurance. I forget how much the state pays (something like 5-10k per year) and getting a comparable individual plan on your own would cost about $28k. Then there's the retirement plan that matches your 5% contribution with 8%.

We're still getting screwed on our retirement plans relative to the older folks. My bosses are all Tier 1, which means they get 2%/year of service and don't need to pay anything. I'm Tier 2A, which means I have to pay for the privilege of 1.33%/year.

Cichlidae
Aug 12, 2005

ME LOVE
MAKE RED LIGHT


Dr. Infant, MD

TokenBrit posted:

Box junctions. They're yellow, as far as I know our painted road markings are only ever white, yellow or red.
Rule #174 here:
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070332

It's a "MUST NOT" and is an offence, backed up by legislation. Not quite as strict as New York, they're generally enforced by cameras (though it's relatively lax).

I think the fine is up to the local authority, but the ones I've seen are £120, reduced to £60 if you pay within 14 days and increased to £180 if you don't pay after 28 days.

Ah yes, I didn't realize the nuances. Being allowed to pull into the intersection awaiting a permissive left/right turn is flat-out illegal in many places here, and Connecticut has either recently joined the list or will soon do so.

I like the little isometric pixel diagrams on that website. Driving is certainly more interesting when you think of it as a game.

mike_F_
Jan 10, 2005

TokenBrit posted:

Box junctions. They're yellow, as far as I know our painted road markings are only ever white, yellow or red.
Rule #174 here:
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070332

It's a "MUST NOT" and is an offence, backed up by legislation. Not quite as strict as New York, they're generally enforced by cameras (though it's relatively lax).

I think the fine is up to the local authority, but the ones I've seen are £120, reduced to £60 if you pay within 14 days and increased to £180 if you don't pay after 28 days.

It's not quite as strict a rule as you suggest, Cichlidae:

Cichlidae posted:

That includes, for example, pulling into the intersection while waiting to turn left. You can see a facsimile in Grand Theft Auto IV, where the intersections are painted with white crosshatches and signs say "Don't block the box." England has a similar thing; I believe their intersections are painted pink or purple. Only one car is allowed to enter the box at a time, ensuring that it won't become gridlocked.

My understanding of the rule here is that you shouldn't enter a box junction (marked with yellow cross-hatchings) unless you can see that your exit is clear. This doesn't apply to making right turns (i.e. turns across oncoming traffic), though - you're allowed to wait in the box then.

E: Oh, didn't see that your link explained that. My bad.

mike_F_ fucked around with this message at 23:09 on Sep 29, 2009

Socket Ryanist
Aug 30, 2004

It's illegal to enter ANY intersection if you do not have a clear exit. The ones marked with boxes are just particularly troublesome intersections.

Cichlidae
Aug 12, 2005

ME LOVE
MAKE RED LIGHT


Dr. Infant, MD

Socket Ryanist posted:

It's illegal to enter ANY intersection if you do not have a clear exit. The ones marked with boxes are just particularly troublesome intersections.

Yes, it's a wonderful law. Sooner or later, enough tickets will be passed out that people will actually obey it. Next, we can finally get around to enforcing "keep right except to pass" and "no cell phone use in the car." Those are technically illegal here, but nobody seems to get caught for them, and so people keep on doing it. There's little more frustrating than a car in the passing lane and one right next to it in the travel lane, going the same speed...

Socket Ryanist
Aug 30, 2004

California still hasn't gotten around to enforcing "Signal before you turn" and "Stop at stop signs", so I dunno how long we are to enforcing those.

Der Metzgermeister
Nov 27, 2005

Denn du bist was du isst, und ihr wisst was es ist.

Socket Ryanist posted:

California still hasn't gotten around to enforcing "Signal before you turn" and "Stop at stop signs", so I dunno how long we are to enforcing those.

You could honestly replace all the stop signs in Massachusetts with yield signs and nothing would change.

Actually, no, they would, because everybody here stops for yield signs because they don't know what they mean.

Pagan
Jun 4, 2003

Tool Maker posted:

You could honestly replace all the stop signs in Massachusetts with yield signs and nothing would change.

Actually, no, they would, because everybody here stops for yield signs because they don't know what they mean.

My girlfriend, who learned to drive in Rhode Island, told me that RI Driver's Ed teaches students to stop at yield signs. Another friend of mine confirmed this. WTF.

Cichlidae
Aug 12, 2005

ME LOVE
MAKE RED LIGHT


Dr. Infant, MD

Pagan posted:

My girlfriend, who learned to drive in Rhode Island, told me that RI Driver's Ed teaches students to stop at yield signs. Another friend of mine confirmed this. WTF.

It must vary from teacher to teacher, because I learned the right way. The Rhode Island written test is ridiculously easy, though. I got a 95 on it despite having never driven before and having taken Driver's Ed 2 years earlier. The most important part of the driving test was stopping at the stop sign instead of the stop bar, which I now know is pretty dumb, because we put the stop bar where we want people to stop and the sign can move around depending on geometry.

Socket Ryanist
Aug 30, 2004

One particularly egregious mistake in my hometown is that, on some intersections, the stop bar is painted beyond an unmarked crosswalk (legally, you have to stop before the crosswalk, even though the stop bar is painted past it). Combine this with hedges that reduce your visibility of the sidewalk and bicyclists who go down the sidewalks at decent speeds and you have accidents waiting to happen.

Lucid Smog
Dec 13, 2004
Easily understood air pollution.
Have you ever driven around the Baltimore/DC area? Maryland is blessed with an incredible number of interstates and major highways (at least compared to the insanity that is Northern Virginia (which also has a "shoulder is a lane sometimes" section on I-66)). It seems like most of them were designed quite a long time ago though because basically every single interchange is a cloverleaf with a combined on/off ramp which introduces same crazy weaving and hilarity as people frantically try to accelerate and get cut off by decelerated exiting vehicles, etc.

Also, there are essentially no bike lanes or good clean (why does no one ever clean them?) shoulders anywhere in the state as far as I can tell. Coming from Florida, where most roads are just beautiful because they're not that old and never freeze, I've had to adjust to jostling with traffic on narrow roads while on a bike. There is only one road around here where I've seen a real honest to goodness bike lane with a picture of a bike and rumble strips and everything, and it's on a completely random road for only a couple of miles that doesn't go anywhere. It was freshly paved, so did they just bring it up to modern standard without bothering to see what purpose the bike lane might have?

GWBBQ
Jan 2, 2005


Cichlidae posted:

We're still getting screwed on our retirement plans relative to the older folks. My bosses are all Tier 1, which means they get 2%/year of service and don't need to pay anything. I'm Tier 2A, which means I have to pay for the privilege of 1.33%/year.
Tier I is nice, 2 and 2A are better for the long term, but I don't plan to work for the state for 20-25 years, so the Alternative Retirement Plan was the obvious choice for me.

Cichlidae
Aug 12, 2005

ME LOVE
MAKE RED LIGHT


Dr. Infant, MD

Socket Ryanist posted:

One particularly egregious mistake in my hometown is that, on some intersections, the stop bar is painted beyond an unmarked crosswalk (legally, you have to stop before the crosswalk, even though the stop bar is painted past it). Combine this with hedges that reduce your visibility of the sidewalk and bicyclists who go down the sidewalks at decent speeds and you have accidents waiting to happen.

Our standard is to keep stop bars at least 4 feet back from crosswalks (or even places we think peds may cross) so that they don't have to cross in between stopped cars. Remember, a visible ped is a safe ped!

quote:

Have you ever driven around the Baltimore/DC area? Maryland is blessed with an incredible number of interstates and major highways (at least compared to the insanity that is Northern Virginia (which also has a "shoulder is a lane sometimes" section on I-66)). It seems like most of them were designed quite a long time ago though because basically every single interchange is a cloverleaf with a combined on/off ramp which introduces same crazy weaving and hilarity as people frantically try to accelerate and get cut off by decelerated exiting vehicles, etc.

Also, there are essentially no bike lanes or good clean (why does no one ever clean them?) shoulders anywhere in the state as far as I can tell. Coming from Florida, where most roads are just beautiful because they're not that old and never freeze, I've had to adjust to jostling with traffic on narrow roads while on a bike. There is only one road around here where I've seen a real honest to goodness bike lane with a picture of a bike and rumble strips and everything, and it's on a completely random road for only a couple of miles that doesn't go anywhere. It was freshly paved, so did they just bring it up to modern standard without bothering to see what purpose the bike lane might have?

One problem with rehabilitating existing roads is that we rarely can afford to do them all at once. If we want to put in a bike lane and can't get funding for the whole thing, the alternative is to build it a couple miles at a time as part of other projects. There's a good chance that small stretch of bike lane will be extended to both sides as more bits of road are rehabilitated.

Alternatively, if there's a housing or business development in the area, they may have put it in using private funds. It's not uncommon to see new developments put in sidewalks, and I imagine that could extend to bike lanes as well. In that case, the chances of extension are somewhat lower.

Cichlidae
Aug 12, 2005

ME LOVE
MAKE RED LIGHT


Dr. Infant, MD
I just got back from a public information meeting. Any of you in the Southington, CT area missed a chance to meet me in person! Of course, I hate to resort to the stereotype, but pretty much only old people go to those meetings. I've always found that a bit odd. Sure, they're retired and have a lot of free time to get involved in the community, but many of them will have died or moved to Flahrridder before the project is actually built.

Anyway, I was all set to give a nice speech, but only three people showed up and we stopped 2 hours early. I still get paid overtime for it, which is pretty awesome!

Speaking of compensation:

GWBBQ posted:

Tier I is nice, 2 and 2A are better for the long term, but I don't plan to work for the state for 20-25 years, so the Alternative Retirement Plan was the obvious choice for me.

They never told me about the Alternative Retirement Plan. I'll probably be moving out of the country in 5-10 years, so I should look into it.

smackfu
Jun 7, 2004

One thing I've seen in CT but nowhere else is bad reflectability on interstate highway signs. Like they probably look fine during the day, but the reflectors aren't working right at night so the sign looks dark and patchy under headlights. Sometimes they're almost illegible. It's usually roadside exit signs, not the overheads.

Have you seen that, and do you know causes it? Snowplows, maybe?

be Creative
May 26, 2007
my brother is teh pwn.

GWBBQ posted:

Long shot here, but last winter or the winter before, one of the signs for CT-15 exit 35 southbound was demolished by something. I've been assuming a snowplow went off the road because I really don't know what else could have done that kind of damage. Do you have a record of it? Is the cost why it's not finished being replaced yet?

I'm not sure if this has been answered because im lazy, but if that is the exit in New Canaan near the Stamford line it was a car accident. Actually my fathers friend died. I forget the whole backstory but he went off the road hit the sign and crashed into a tree.

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Cichlidae
Aug 12, 2005

ME LOVE
MAKE RED LIGHT


Dr. Infant, MD

smackfu posted:

One thing I've seen in CT but nowhere else is bad reflectability on interstate highway signs. Like they probably look fine during the day, but the reflectors aren't working right at night so the sign looks dark and patchy under headlights. Sometimes they're almost illegible. It's usually roadside exit signs, not the overheads.

Have you seen that, and do you know causes it? Snowplows, maybe?

First off, keep in mind that our signs on I-95 and I-395, among others, are over 20 years old. We just don't have the money to keep them fresh and shiny. Since we can't afford to illuminate the signs, we put reflex reflectors, little shiny buttons, in the text and borders.

Unfortunately, side-mounted signs have two things against them. First, they're tilted a few degrees away from the road to reduce glare at night. Sign panel material has little cube corners that reflect light back in the same direction from which it came, but they are still most effective head-on. The second strike is, as you mentioned, splash from cars and plows. Whenever it rains or snows, cars drive by and splash an impressive amount of dirty water onto the signs.

Also impeding legibility in a smaller way are graffiti, bullet holes, cracks in the reflective coating, dew, impact damage (a surprisingly large percentage of our signs get hit by cars), and "bird debris."

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