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CornHolio
May 20, 2001

Toilet Rascal

hobbesmaster posted:

Same thing for Lexus and Acura.

Yeah but they at least go a lot further to distinguish themselves. Lincoln has usually been little more than a Ford with fancier-looking trim pieces. Hell, look at the Blackwood.

They need to bring back the Mark VIII. Er, well, create a Mark IX is what I should be saying. But that's all AI talk.

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KarmaCandy
Jan 14, 2006

kimbo305 posted:

This shouldn't necessarily be coupled with not wanting to learn and know more about cars. Your car is in the shop and the mechanic says your exhaust is shot and you need a complete new one welded in -- would you know if you're getting taken?

I typically bring my boyfriend with me when it comes to repairs as he has a slightly better grasp on cars and looks a bit more intimidating. But no, I wouldn't.

Kimbo posted:

There's 2 independent factors here:
- do you want / need to spend most of that money on a car? If not, it's pointless to minimax what you can get for your full budget.
- what do you rank as your priorities in a car?

I don't NEED to spend that much on a car, it's just what I have. I put away about $24k awhile ago, stopped contributing and that amount has grown to $27k since then. As far as what I care about - I mainly want a car that's reliable, will last, gets decent gas mileage and hopefully has cheap-ish repairs. I have preferences but they're not that important - rounded over boxy, leather over fabric, trunk space over no trunk space, smaller rather than larger... People just always seem to have the same answers in regards to cars as when it comes to the Honda/Toyota, I was just curious if there were similar "typical" BFC answers that go a step above those.

KarmaCandy fucked around with this message at 01:11 on Oct 22, 2009

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

KarmaCandy posted:

People just always seem to have the same answers in regards to cars as when it comes to the Honda/Toyota, I was just curious if there were similar "typical" BFC answers that go a step above those.

Acura/Lexus. As argued above, they are literally a Honda/Toyota with nicer stuff, mechanically they're just as reliable. The top trim of an Accord or Camry/Avalon these days can be very luxurious. Personally I would look for either a CPO Acura TSX, which is literally rebadged European Accord (they like their family sedans smaller) or a BMW 3 series. Stay away from VAG (VW, Audi) or MB, nothing they build is anything near reliable and you need to see a dealer for pretty much all maintenance. Same goes for "advanced" BMWs (7 series esp.), a run of the mill 3 series shouldn't be too much of a problem, you have to maintain it a bit more than a Toyota/Honda though.

KarmaCandy
Jan 14, 2006

hobbesmaster posted:

Acura/Lexus. As argued above, they are literally a Honda/Toyota with nicer stuff, mechanically they're just as reliable. The top trim of an Accord or Camry/Avalon these days can be very luxurious. Personally I would look for either a CPO Acura TSX, which is literally rebadged European Accord (they like their family sedans smaller) or a BMW 3 series...

This is a reassuring answer. What I have is a VW that was gifted to me when my older stepsister went off to college and it's been nothing but a pain in the rear end. Hard to complain about a free car but I'm pretty sure if I added up all the repairs, I'd probably have paid for it and then some.

I'm not sure I care enough about cars to go the extra mile to a more luxury car but it's nice to know what to look at/what to avoid since I'm still just browsing.

Nocheez
Sep 5, 2000

Can you spare a little cheddar?
Nap Ghost

KarmaCandy posted:

I typically bring my boyfriend with me when it comes to repairs as he has a slightly better grasp on cars and looks a bit more intimidating. But no, I wouldn't.


I don't NEED to spend that much on a car, it's just what I have. I put away about $24k awhile ago, stopped contributing and that amount has grown to $27k since then. As far as what I care about - I mainly want a car that's reliable, will last, gets decent gas mileage and hopefully has cheap-ish repairs. I have preferences but they're not that important - rounded over boxy, leather over fabric, trunk space over no trunk space, smaller rather than larger... People just always seem to have the same answers in regards to cars as when it comes to the Honda/Toyota, I was just curious if there were similar "typical" BFC answers that go a step above those.

There's a reason you get the Honda/Toyota answer over and over when you look at reliability and gas mileage. BFC knows it, too. If you want a smaller car (with a big trunk?) that's reliable and good on gas, I would think a Corolla would suit you well. You're probably going to have to go with an upper trim level to get leather.

I'd still recommend a 2 or 3 year old model so you don't have to eat the depreciation, but

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad

KarmaCandy posted:

As far as what I care about - I mainly want a car that's reliable, will last, gets decent gas mileage and hopefully has cheap-ish repairs. I have preferences but they're not that important - rounded over boxy, leather over fabric, trunk space over no trunk space, smaller rather than larger...

sounds like a Toyota Matrix would work for you. Even the all out AWD, top spec engine version would be nowhere near your budget. And it's pretty much a Corolla underneath, so the reliability will be there. In the same vein as the Corolla/Prizm trick, there's the Pontiac Vibe to the Matrix, which can save you a couple thousand. The Vibe GT is probably the car I'd recommend to some car nonenthusiast friend if they asked me for a practical near new car.

kimbo305 fucked around with this message at 02:31 on Oct 22, 2009

Zhentar
Sep 28, 2003

Brilliant Master Genius

CornHolio posted:

I think cars with an enthusiast following is one way to go. You have to be willing to do some basic work and torubleshooting yourself, though, so there is a slight cost there. However, you get enormous online resources, and websites that cater directly to you. For instance, if I need parts for my BMW, I can go to five or six different websites for parts, a number of forums and DIY sites for advice, and even here for exploded parts diagrams for every single component of my car. The Volvo is similar.

I'll second this. My BMW had a broken window regulator. Not only was it easy to find 4 different walkthroughs, with pictures, of how to take the door apart, they linked a mechanic that rebuilds the window regulators- half the cost of the new parts, and better construction, plus a partial refund for sending my old broken one in afterwards. End result, I replaced it for less than the labor would have cost in a shop, with absolutely no prior experience.

necrobobsledder
Mar 21, 2005
Lay down your soul to the gods rock 'n roll
Nap Ghost
I'm not a car guy at all and my '05 Corolla has been terrifically awesome and met all the requirements of the typical middle class person and then some. I'll probably drive it until it dies or we're all on electrics / hybrids (the latter will come first I think). I went for it rather than the Prius every other person I know got at the time. You can get '09s now for $13k, which is a grand cheaper than they used to start at in '05 :psyduck:

I really doubt people can be disappointed with a Honda/Toyota answer unless they're a car buff or have some ideological reasons for hating on Honda/Toyota. But on that note, there's an awful lot of Tennessee folk that buy Nissans because they employee a crapload of people there.

Despite knowing about the Prizm shenanigan, I didn't go with a Geo Prizm because I loving hated how they look inside and out, and for a grand or two saved, it wouldn't have been worth it for me. I'm kinda picky about how my cars look and feel and if I'm spending $15k+ on a car, I'd hope I actually like the thing I spent that kind of money on.

dreesemonkey
May 14, 2008
Pillbug

hobbesmaster posted:

Acura/Lexus. As argued above, they are literally a Honda/Toyota with nicer stuff, mechanically they're just as reliable. The top trim of an Accord or Camry/Avalon these days can be very luxurious. Personally I would look for either a CPO Acura TSX, which is literally rebadged European Accord (they like their family sedans smaller) or a BMW 3 series. Stay away from VAG (VW, Audi) or MB, nothing they build is anything near reliable and you need to see a dealer for pretty much all maintenance. Same goes for "advanced" BMWs (7 series esp.), a run of the mill 3 series shouldn't be too much of a problem, you have to maintain it a bit more than a Toyota/Honda though.

A co-worker just sold his MINT '05 Acura TL for $12800, it had 67k on it and otherwise 100% perfect (Was never driven in bad weather, washed waxed all the time, dealer maintained). It boggles my mind how little he got for it.

CornHolio
May 20, 2001

Toilet Rascal

Zhentar posted:

I'll second this. My BMW had a broken window regulator. Not only was it easy to find 4 different walkthroughs, with pictures, of how to take the door apart, they linked a mechanic that rebuilds the window regulators- half the cost of the new parts, and better construction, plus a partial refund for sending my old broken one in afterwards. End result, I replaced it for less than the labor would have cost in a shop, with absolutely no prior experience.

Another anecdote: A few weeks ago I replaced the oil separator, flame trap, and various PCV tubing on the Volvo. The kit cost me $109 including shipping (from https://www.ipdusa.com) and there's an excellent write-up here.

(Me being a gorilla in the engine bay, I broke something. But I was able to fix it at no cost to me, using spare heater hose and two clamps from work.)

The dealership charges $650 for the same maintenance.

That's almost $550 saved.

n8r
Jul 3, 2003

I helped Lowtax become a cyborg and all I got was this lousy avatar
I really like both cars and motorcycles, and I can definitely afford more expensive machines than what I currently own. Here are my thoughts on car buying if you want to hit a sweet spot cost wise:

Price: $2000 - $4500 - the reason I think this is a good price point is when you start getting below that you really need to know what you're looking at. I've had some cars that were $1000 that I probably could have driven for 10 years if they weren't so terribly boring. The really big cost savings is that you don't have to have full coverage insurance. Collision coverage (you gently caress up and wreck your car - your insurance pays for it) is terribly expensive especially for younger males. When a car get this cheap, the monthly cost of collision quickly adds up to a very large % of the value.

Private Seller - the reason here is you want to know what sort of idiot owned the car. Ideally you're looking for the person that has owned the car for a long time and has a nice big stack of maintenance records. You want someone that has followed the service schedule recommended by the manufacturer - which you can find here:
http://www.edmunds.com/maintenance/select.html. The type of seller is a huge part of whether or not I decide to buy the car. Is the guy/gal sketchy/stupid/etc then I walk regardless of the car.

Car - I'm a bit all over the map on this one. I think that the camry/accord/civic/corolla is a bit overvalued in the used market. The Hondas are often owned by real shitbrains, the Toyotas are often owned by people that think they don't have to change the oil. I think Mazda/Nissan offer a bit better bang for the buck if you're looking at an economy car in the used market. There are also some domestic cars that get really cheap and are quite reliable - ford escort, any of the GM cars with the 3800 v6, ford rangers, etc. I also like to use the reliability ratings you find on autos.msn.com. It seems to pick up the major issues about certain cars that I read on the internet. It can also be a good way to see if the XYZ problem that everyone claims happens on a certain car is actually documented. Other good cars are the japanese luxury brands if you want a slightly nicer car. In addition Volvos and Saabs seem to really bottom out quickly.

One of the things that you just have to accept when you own an older car is that some stuff will break and you'll need to take it to a mechanic. Do your research BEFORE you need to take your car in, find a mechanic you really trust. Get AAA so you can have it towed without taking a huge hit on the cost. I figure if I spend $1000 or less a year keeping a car on the road I'm still far ahead of owning a new car.

The most expensive car I've owned was the car my parents bought for me in 1996 - it was a $5000 Celica. I believe I've been stranded all of once in my driving career. The fuel pump on said Celica died.

gotly
Oct 28, 2007
Economy-Sized
I'm thinking of buying a new car. Not because I want to, because I think I have to.

I posted a thread in AI about a problem that has been reoccuring with my 2003 Honda Civic. It's a really lovely electrical problem that has happened 4 times and basically forces me to a mechanic within 30 miles. I don't want to buy a new car but I need something reliable for work.

Here's my financial info:

Bi-weekly income: $1,455
Total cash: $1,200
Total debt: $1,100 credit card (Was a -lot- higher, I've been paying it down aggressively, like $1,000 of every paycheck goes to it, it should be $0 by the end of the month)

A conservative estimate of the trade-in value on my car is about $4,000. I'd be looking at something in the $15,000-$20,000 range and taking loans out for the difference since I don't have a lot of money for a down payment at the moment.

The other option is to keep paying for repairs on the Civic. So far, the one electrical problem has cost me $800. The connection to the Crank Position Sensor keeps going out and they think it's a connection issue now - the wires are now soldiered to the unit and I'm picking it up today. To replace the unit would cost $1,000.

My question to you guys: do you think I should get a new car now or just keep paying for repairs and hope for the best? I had planned on buying a new car in the spring when I had a bit more cashed saved up but the drat Civic's electrical problems are making me think that an earlier buy date is necessary.

Nocheez
Sep 5, 2000

Can you spare a little cheddar?
Nap Ghost
Sounds to me like you have a halfway decent shop working on it now and with soldering the connection it should be good to go for a while. If there aren't any other glaring problems, I would drive that Civic until it fell apart.

You don't have much in savings, so if your car lasts another 6 months with no major repairs, you'll be able to pay off your debt and have a nice emergency fund. If the car has had no problems, keep driving it while you sack away a nice down payment for your next vehicle.

Worst case scenario? Your car breaks down again and you have to fix it. You get it fixed, put it up on Craigslist for $4,000 and disclose the history. A Honda nut jumps all over that vehicle for the great price and then it's his problem. Then you have your down payment for your new car.

Vladimir Putin
Mar 17, 2007

by R. Guyovich
Why don't you take it into the dealer to see what they can do? At 2003, your civic is still new-ish and you shouldn't have to let go about it for another five years at least.

dreesemonkey
May 14, 2008
Pillbug

gotly posted:

I'm thinking of buying a new car. Not because I want to, because I think I have to.

I posted a thread in AI about a problem that has been reoccuring with my 2003 Honda Civic. It's a really lovely electrical problem that has happened 4 times and basically forces me to a mechanic within 30 miles. I don't want to buy a new car but I need something reliable for work.

Here's my financial info:

Bi-weekly income: $1,455
Total cash: $1,200
Total debt: $1,100 credit card (Was a -lot- higher, I've been paying it down aggressively, like $1,000 of every paycheck goes to it, it should be $0 by the end of the month)

A conservative estimate of the trade-in value on my car is about $4,000. I'd be looking at something in the $15,000-$20,000 range and taking loans out for the difference since I don't have a lot of money for a down payment at the moment.

The other option is to keep paying for repairs on the Civic. So far, the one electrical problem has cost me $800. The connection to the Crank Position Sensor keeps going out and they think it's a connection issue now - the wires are now soldiered to the unit and I'm picking it up today. To replace the unit would cost $1,000.

My question to you guys: do you think I should get a new car now or just keep paying for repairs and hope for the best? I had planned on buying a new car in the spring when I had a bit more cashed saved up but the drat Civic's electrical problems are making me think that an earlier buy date is necessary.

I understand how frustrating it is when cars break down so I can see where you're coming from. I assume since you didn't mention anything about it, the car is paid off.

Well, I read your AI thread. Hopefully the soldering fixes the issue.

Anecdotally hondas are typically extremely reliable, so one would hope that once this is wrapped up you'd have a rock solid car to motor around in for years and years. You may drop another $1000 for this repair, but a $1000 repair bill once is way better than a $300-$400 car payment every month (to me, at least).

Otherwise, head over to the budget thread. You're making pretty decent money ($50ish?) but you don't have much cash on hand. Save some of your pennies, young feller.

Boogeyman
Sep 29, 2004

Boo, motherfucker.
Just in case anyone is looking for financing on a used car, and hasn't managed to hear about Pentagon Federal at some point in this subforum, you may want to check them out. They offer 3.99% on used cars (with a few restrictions on mileage and age), and you choose how long you want to take to pay back the loan (one to five years). They say you have to be a family member of someone who was in the military (I am), but you can also just make a small donation to the NMFA.

I bought an Envoy a few months ago to replace my Camaro and PenFed was very easy to work with. I filled out an online app telling them what the loan amount would be and how long I wanted it for, they ran my credit, and I had a check in the mail within a week. I took the check to the dealership, found the car I wanted, had the finance guy fill in the info on the check, and that was that. The only other thing I had to do was sign a couple documents they mailed to me after the check was cashed.

All in all, financing through PenFed was a dream compared to working with the assholes at the dealership like I've done in the past.

Backno
Dec 1, 2007

Goff Boyz iz da rudest Boyz

SKA SUCKS

Harry posted:

Sorry but unless they 100% can't afford the car payment (as in they make x a month and with the car they have to pay x+y a month) I don't see how selling the car at a loss will help them. If I had to resort to buying a beater that was unreliable I'd probably be fired quickly.

I never said sell a car at a loss. In GENERAL its better to drive a fully paid off car then have a car payment. In GENERAL the people posting here are in bad shape and need every penny of their paychecks to get out of debt. I am speaking in generals because this is a general advice thread.

Blinkman987
Jul 10, 2008

Gender roles guilt me into being fat.

Boogeyman posted:

Just in case anyone is looking for financing on a used car, and hasn't managed to hear about Pentagon Federal at some point in this subforum, you may want to check them out. They offer 3.99% on used cars (with a few restrictions on mileage and age), and you choose how long you want to take to pay back the loan (one to five years). They say you have to be a family member of someone who was in the military (I am), but you can also just make a small donation to the NMFA.

I bought an Envoy a few months ago to replace my Camaro and PenFed was very easy to work with. I filled out an online app telling them what the loan amount would be and how long I wanted it for, they ran my credit, and I had a check in the mail within a week. I took the check to the dealership, found the car I wanted, had the finance guy fill in the info on the check, and that was that. The only other thing I had to do was sign a couple documents they mailed to me after the check was cashed.

All in all, financing through PenFed was a dream compared to working with the assholes at the dealership like I've done in the past.

How long have you used PenFed? I've always known them as a lender who only takes the cream of the prime at those rates unless you have a long history with them or a premium credit rating.

Boogeyman
Sep 29, 2004

Boo, motherfucker.

Blinkman987 posted:

How long have you used PenFed? I've always known them as a lender who only takes the cream of the prime at those rates unless you have a long history with them or a premium credit rating.

I had never heard of them until I read someone else's post on here talking about their used car loans. I signed up, filled out the app, and that was it. I do have a pretty high credit score though (780ish, I think), so I'm sure that helped.

gotly
Oct 28, 2007
Economy-Sized

dreesemonkey posted:

I understand how frustrating it is when cars break down so I can see where you're coming from. I assume since you didn't mention anything about it, the car is paid off.

Well, I read your AI thread. Hopefully the soldering fixes the issue.

Anecdotally hondas are typically extremely reliable, so one would hope that once this is wrapped up you'd have a rock solid car to motor around in for years and years. You may drop another $1000 for this repair, but a $1000 repair bill once is way better than a $300-$400 car payment every month (to me, at least).

Otherwise, head over to the budget thread. You're making pretty decent money ($50ish?) but you don't have much cash on hand. Save some of your pennies, young feller.

Here's the thing, I need a reliable car and at this point both myself and the mechanic have zero faith in the car. I'd rather sell it now when I can get $5-6,000 rather than sell it as a parts car for $1,000 when it won't start and the repairs are getting costlier and costlier.

I've never had a loan. I've had a credit card for 4 years and that is literally the only thing on my credit report. I'd like to some day buy a house and I need some way to build my credit anyway.

I make $58,000/year before taxes. I was quoted 7.75% APR for a $14,505 5 year loan at $293 a month which assumes a bare minimum ($2,000) down payment. The loan I'm getting allows you to pay it off early without penalty. My take-home monthly income is $3,330. Using the 20% rule, I can afford over 660/month for the loan; double what the payment actually is. Additionally, by the time the payments kick in I'll have the Credit Card paid off and about $3,000 in savings.

This month alone I've already pissed away $300 on repairs for the car. Including the 90,000 mile maintenance I've spent $1,840 on this car for the five months I've owned it. That's $368 per month. I've done some research and found other people with the same problem my Civic has and they haven't been able to figure out a solution that will work. The problem keeps happening regardless of what they replace. It's time to sell it while I still can get some money for it.

The reason I have so little cash on hand is because I've been paying down my credit card to the tune of $1,000 every two weeks. I incurred a lot of CC debt due to moving expenses combined with my Ex-GF screwing me out of a couple months of rent and the entire deposit to my old apartment. I usually have around $3-4k cash on hand but my job is extremely stable so I feel comfortable getting the CC debt eliminated while having about a grand on hand.

Like most people coming to the internet for advice, I've already made my decision. I'm just posting to make sure the way I'm thinking makes sense to someone else. If this is a horrible idea I'm going to regret, let me know.

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

gotly posted:

This month alone I've already pissed away $300 on repairs for the car. Including the 90,000 mile maintenance I've spent $1,840 on this car for the five months I've owned it. That's $368 per month. I've done some research and found other people with the same problem my Civic has and they haven't been able to figure out a solution that will work. The problem keeps happening regardless of what they replace. It's time to sell it while I still can get some money for it.

This is one argument against used cars, you're just inheriting someone else's problem. I take it you bought it then immediately had the timing belt done?

gotly
Oct 28, 2007
Economy-Sized
Yup, she was up front about the 90k maintenance not done yet and I worked that into talking down the price on the car.

Harminoff
Oct 24, 2005

👽
I just got a used 01 grand prix gt from a dealership and have a few questions about the financing.

I am trying to build my credit. I have had one credit card in the past, for $500 through my credit union but I never really used it. I just got this car, and it is financed at $5,232.37 at 12.99% with a finance charge of $1,567.51 (ouch) I have the money to pay off the car in the first month. My question is, does it have any negative impact on credit to pay a loan off right away? I have been told that I shouldn't do that because it looks better when you show that you are able to make monthly payments plus some extra. I would rather pay it off and save on the interest. Is this a good idea? If more info is needed, let me know!

Don Lapre
Mar 28, 2001

If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.

Harminoff posted:

I just got a used 01 grand prix gt from a dealership and have a few questions about the financing.

I am trying to build my credit. I have had one credit card in the past, for $500 through my credit union but I never really used it. I just got this car, and it is financed at $5,232.37 at 12.99% with a finance charge of $1,567.51 (ouch) I have the money to pay off the car in the first month. My question is, does it have any negative impact on credit to pay a loan off right away? I have been told that I shouldn't do that because it looks better when you show that you are able to make monthly payments plus some extra. I would rather pay it off and save on the interest. Is this a good idea? If more info is needed, let me know!

jesus christ, you shoulda tried to get a credit card instead of that auto loan. Pay that poo poo off as fast as possible.

Harminoff
Oct 24, 2005

👽

Don Lapre posted:

jesus christ, you shoulda tried to get a credit card instead of that auto loan. Pay that poo poo off as fast as possible.

Yes I know that now. My last car took a poo poo, I missed two days of work, missing another day and I would have been out of a job, so I went to the dealership and got this. I didn't really know what I was getting into I guess. No mass transit here or really even taxi's, and with my shift being 3-11 I couldn't really find a ride.

Like I said though, I do have the money to pay it off the first month. Now I just need to see if wachovia has a fee for paying it off early.

Live and learn I guess.

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

Harminoff posted:

Yes I know that now. My last car took a poo poo, I missed two days of work, missing another day and I would have been out of a job, so I went to the dealership and got this.

It would have been cheaper to rent a car for a few days so you could approach this without a major sense of urgency. Just remember that when your N-body takes a poo poo in the near future.

Harminoff
Oct 24, 2005

👽

hobbesmaster posted:

It would have been cheaper to rent a car for a few days so you could approach this without a major sense of urgency. Just remember that when your N-body takes a poo poo in the near future.

n body is grand am, not grand prix isn't it? grand prix is w-body

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

Harminoff posted:

n body is grand am, not grand prix isn't it? grand prix is w-body

Er yes, I read grand am for whatever reason.

Zhentar
Sep 28, 2003

Brilliant Master Genius

Harminoff posted:

My question is, does it have any negative impact on credit to pay a loan off right away? I have been told that I shouldn't do that because it looks better when you show that you are able to make monthly payments plus some extra. I would rather pay it off and save on the interest. Is this a good idea? If more info is needed, let me know!

The whole point of having good credit is so that you don't have to pay high interest on expensive things like cars and homes. Paying high interest on your auto loan in hopes of improving your credit defeats the purpose of it!

lament.cfg
Dec 28, 2006

we have such posts
to show you




Reposting this from the zuarg thread because it belongs here.

Dave Ramsey posted:

A car lease is basically renting a car. You pay $400 a month and at the end of the new car lease, you turn it back in. If you want to buy it, you are buying it for what they estimate at the beginning of the lease to be the market value. At the end of the lease, it’s called the residual value. If you pay $400 a month for 60 months, you pay $24,000 before turning it in. The car will not have gone down in value more than that, because the car companies would lose money if it did. When they get the car back, you will have paid them more than the car has depreciated during that time.

During that time, you’re maintaining the car as if you owned it. You’ll get charged for excessive wear and tear, or if you put too many miles on it. If you rent it for $24,000 and it went down $15,000 in value, then it cost me $9,000 to rent this car for this period of time. That is their profit during that time.

Another thing is that the interest rates on a vehicle lease are not disclosed because the Federal Trade Commission has determined that this is not a debt, so there is no federal disclosure involved. Therefore, you have no truth in lending disclosure sheet. The interest rates you get charged are unbelievably high. That’s where you’ll realize you got screwed over.

People get sold automobile leases because they are told that it’s what sophisticated people do. But as it turns out, the car companies make more money on leasing you the car than if you bought the car with cash, according to the National Auto Dealers Association. Broke people think ‘how much down and how much a month’. Rich people think ‘how much’. If you can’t pay cash for a car, then ride a bicycle. But don’t lease a car.

CornHolio
May 20, 2001

Toilet Rascal

traveling midget posted:

Reposting this from the zuarg thread because it belongs here.

Good call. Adding this to the OP because I feel its incredibly important.

Engineer Lenk
Aug 28, 2003

Mnogo losho e!

traveling midget posted:

Reposting this from the zuarg thread because it belongs here.

This is why I dislike Dave Ramsey. He makes uniform statements about various debt without illustrating when it's a useful tool.

In the case of leasing a car, leasing is a lot like renting an apartment. You pay a premium for doing so, and as he illustrates it's not a clearly defined premium.

However, you are able to get a new car every couple of years and have it always be under warranty. There's probably a breakpoint where it's cheaper to lease than to do a buy/tradein cycle, if you want the same ease of just dealing with the dealership. The auto companies make money on average with leasing, but that doesn't mean they correctly predict residual value on every individual lease. If you lease a car that turns out to have major problems outside of the warranty period, it doesn't matter - you didn't take that risk upon yourself.

Zhentar
Sep 28, 2003

Brilliant Master Genius

Engineer Lenk posted:

However, you are able to get a new car every couple of years and have it always be under warranty. There's probably a breakpoint where it's cheaper to lease than to do a buy/tradein cycle, if you want the same ease of just dealing with the dealership.

Regardless of which one ends up being cheaper they are both financially retarded. The opportunity to endlessly pay the worst stage of a vehicle's depreciation? Oh, that I could be so lucky...

Engineer Lenk
Aug 28, 2003

Mnogo losho e!

Zhentar posted:

Regardless of which one ends up being cheaper they are both financially retarded. The opportunity to endlessly pay the worst stage of a vehicle's depreciation? Oh, that I could be so lucky...

I can easily see it being a good option for a fleet of company cars, and I don't begrudge people making luxury choices who can afford those luxuries and get enjoyment out of them.

You could make the same case for only buying store brands, or buying secondhand clothing or furniture. You pay a premium for new things, and it's a subjective point of view as to whether that premium is worth it.

nbzl
Apr 5, 2002

Don't worry about the horse being blind, just load the wagon.
My situation is this; I have a little less than $4500 left on a 2003 Chevrolet Silverado. I make $260 monthly payments which I have no problem doing. However I will be moving 30 minutes away for school and would like something with better gas mileage. The Chevrolet has been very reliable thus far and I've only done one major repair($600 for the fuel pump) on it. I have $5000 in my savings so I could just as easily pay it off but I feel safer having that as a cushion. The blue book on the truck is around $6000-$7000. I've broken down my options into three things;

(a) Pay off the truck and buy something with better gas mileage.
(b) Drive that thing until it breaks down.
(c) Keep making payments on the truck and buy something for around 2-3k. Just leave the truck sitting in my driveway at home and sell it when its payed off.

I have a biweekly income of around $1500.

nbzl fucked around with this message at 06:32 on Oct 27, 2009

Don Lapre
Mar 28, 2001

If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.

nbzl posted:

My situation is this; I have a little less than $4500 left on a 2003 Chevrolet Silverado. I make $260 monthly which I have no problem doing. However I will be moving 30 minutes away for school and would like something with better gas mileage. The Chevrolet has been very reliable thus far and I've only done one major repair($600 for the fuel pump) on it. I have $5000 in my savings so I could just as easily pay it off but I feel safer having that as a cushion. The blue book on the truck is around $6000-$7000. I've broken down my options into three things;

(a) Pay off the truck and buy something with better gas mileage.
(b) Drive that thing until it breaks down.
(c) Keep making payments on the truck and buy something for around 2-3k. Just leave the truck sitting in my driveway at home and sell it when its payed off.

I have a biweekly income of around $1500.

well the truck is only going to depreciate further so you might as well sell it if you dont need it. then take the cash you get + some of your savings and buy a civic.

AbsentMindedWelder
Mar 26, 2003

It must be the fumes.

nbzl posted:

words
Sell the truck to a private sale if possible. You can work around the lien and pay it off with the money from the buyer, instead of using your savings.

If the private sale doesn't work, talk to a dealer about a trade in value and see below. (They too can work with getting the lien holder paid no problem.)

Buy fuel efficient car of your choice.

If you don't want/need the thing anymore why let it depreciate further? Get the most $ you can out of it now.

necrobobsledder
Mar 21, 2005
Lay down your soul to the gods rock 'n roll
Nap Ghost

Engineer Lenk posted:

This is why I dislike Dave Ramsey. He makes uniform statements about various debt without illustrating when it's a useful tool.
Well his approach is so absolutist with everything in the world being valued only in terms of money that I disagree with. For example, if I can make another $15k / yr by having a car instead of riding a bicycle, then I should probably lease a car because it increases my earning potential more than the cost to do so. It's like he's completely forgotten the purpose of money and the point of money is to just accumulate more, and I can't agree with that. Furthermore, there's parts of the country that are really dangerous for bicyclists and so you're taking personal significant safety risks over a matter of maybe $3000 / yr. For the people that Dave Ramsey's trying to coach, I can see why he needs to espouse what he does though, so I'm not against his methods exactly either and I feel he's personally a lot more reasonable than what he preaches.

An additional cost of buying and selling a vehicle is that it'll take away free time outside your job when you factor in the posting of ads, the repeated interruptions to your day from phone calls, and so forth. This just doesn't fly for me when I'm so busy and my work performance suffers at some point. With a lease, I'll go in and come out with a different car with a pretty regimented process on paper. I'm not much of a negotiator and would probably screw myself, so it's part of the price of living for me, whatever.

Engineer Lenk
Aug 28, 2003

Mnogo losho e!

necrobobsledder posted:

An additional cost of buying and selling a vehicle is that it'll take away free time outside your job when you factor in the posting of ads, the repeated interruptions to your day from phone calls, and so forth. This just doesn't fly for me when I'm so busy and my work performance suffers at some point. With a lease, I'll go in and come out with a different car with a pretty regimented process on paper. I'm not much of a negotiator and would probably screw myself, so it's part of the price of living for me, whatever.

That's why I want to see it compared to a cycle of buying and doing a trade-in from the same dealer, since there's not a significant difference in time invested in the process. Trade-in values are typically a good bit lower than you'd get going private-party.

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Don Lapre
Mar 28, 2001

If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.

necrobobsledder posted:

Well his approach is so absolutist with everything in the world being valued only in terms of money that I disagree with. For example, if I can make another $15k / yr by having a car instead of riding a bicycle, then I should probably lease a car because it increases my earning potential more than the cost to do so. It's like he's completely forgotten the purpose of money and the point of money is to just accumulate more, and I can't agree with that. Furthermore, there's parts of the country that are really dangerous for bicyclists and so you're taking personal significant safety risks over a matter of maybe $3000 / yr. For the people that Dave Ramsey's trying to coach, I can see why he needs to espouse what he does though, so I'm not against his methods exactly either and I feel he's personally a lot more reasonable than what he preaches.

An additional cost of buying and selling a vehicle is that it'll take away free time outside your job when you factor in the posting of ads, the repeated interruptions to your day from phone calls, and so forth. This just doesn't fly for me when I'm so busy and my work performance suffers at some point. With a lease, I'll go in and come out with a different car with a pretty regimented process on paper. I'm not much of a negotiator and would probably screw myself, so it's part of the price of living for me, whatever.

There is a pretty big gap between riding a bike and leasing a new vehicle. You could buy a cheaper car with cash which is what he advocates.

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