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Most people who join the Foreign Service have pretty impressive backgrounds when it comes to travel. I know people who've traveled all over China and not had a problem. It helps to have some identifiable purpose if your going to certain places though. Yearly two day "tourist" visits to Beijing and nowhere else would raise eyebrows. There are few clear cut rules with regard to clearances. But aside from a few horror stories I've heard the decisions are almost always very reasonable.
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Oct 30, 2009 22:44
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| # ? Apr 19, 2024 20:42 |
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Note: New thread title.
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Oct 30, 2009 23:51
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Hooray! We're a "megathread!"
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Oct 31, 2009 02:28
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So has anyone done the language assessment? I'm going to need to do one in Hindi or Urdu (or both? they're so drat similar) I'm sort of wondering what kind of vocab I should be reviewing. I can hold my own decently well, but I'm just wondering how the interviews are usually laid out.
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Oct 31, 2009 03:40
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AKA Pseudonym posted:Most people who join the Foreign Service have pretty impressive backgrounds when it comes to travel. I know people who've traveled all over China and not had a problem. It helps to have some identifiable purpose if your going to certain places though. Yearly two day "tourist" visits to Beijing and nowhere else would raise eyebrows. I liken it to something like confession. As AKA said about the travel, if you have a valid and plausible explanation, it will probably be ok. Now, for example, if you went to Afghanistan in 2000 and Pakistan in 2002 for "tourism" I'm guessing you'll need a really good explanation. (just a guess, I'm not in DS)
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Oct 31, 2009 09:09
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CherryCola posted:So has anyone done the language assessment? I'm going to need to do one in Hindi or Urdu (or both? they're so drat similar) I'm sort of wondering what kind of vocab I should be reviewing. I can hold my own decently well, but I'm just wondering how the interviews are usually laid out. I think someone in the first page or two of this thread took one of the phone tests; you might PM them. Also, on the Yahoo groups listed in the OP the pre-employment phone test has been a periodic topic of conversation. It was a long time ago that I took the phone test. Having lived and worked in-country and later having taught the tested language in the U.S., there wasn't much doubt I would pass. I just remember a brief discussion on current events, social issues and hobbies.
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Oct 31, 2009 10:31
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CherryCola posted:So has anyone done the language assessment? I'm going to need to do one in Hindi or Urdu (or both? they're so drat similar) I'm sort of wondering what kind of vocab I should be reviewing. I can hold my own decently well, but I'm just wondering how the interviews are usually laid out. I took it for National Language Service Corps through Language Testing International, not 100% that the DoS uses the same people or not. It starts out pretty basic (tell me about yourself, family, etc) and as it goes they ramp up the difficulty to try and find your limit. They say it's unstructured but it's not really like a conversation, you can tell they're following a script and just branch out from there. They ask you to describe a current event, so it helps if you find one and read up on any specialized vocab. There was also a roleplay, the tester came up with the situation that she loaned me her iPod and I broke it/lost it, and would keep coming up with weird situations to keep the conversation going. Finally stonewalled her when I explained that all of her precious data was backed up in her computer's iTunes Library, so me buying a new one meant she wouldn't lose the presentation she needed for the next day. There was also a section where she wanted me to solve society's problem with young people. All in all it lasted about 45 minutes. I got an Advanced Mid (equivalent to a 2+ ILR) after inexplicably choking on the current event section, which was so stupid because that was what most of my coursework focused on and I'd even prepared for it ahead of time. I may re-take it at my own expense in a few months if I get a chance to re-immerse myself: 2+ is the minimum State is looking for, but it cost me an assignment with NLSC that I had really wanted  As far as taking both, you only get bonus points for one language and both of those are Super Critical Needs, so just take whichever one is easier for you. Oh, not sure if they're full or not (just passed the original 1000 members target) but if you're interested, one of NLSC's 10 Charter languages is Hindi. I can't really find a downside to being in it: any assignments are optional, you get free government training when applying for some of them (as well as free language assessment), and it fleshes out your resume a bit.
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Oct 31, 2009 16:24
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I passed the QEP a couple of months ago and, given all the horror stories, have no idea why one person passes and another person fails. So all I tell to those who are completing it now is my strategy for the PNs The P/N section is the twitter of essays, the extremely limited space means there really isn't room for an unnecessary word. Three weeks are given to complete the PNs and there are no points awarded for handing them in early; I took my time and carefully considered which stories I would use for which essay. I didn't pay attention to any of the 13Ds while writing my essays. I feel trying to work those in while telling a good, contextually relevant, story in the limited space is just too much. I did give the essays a cursory look at the end to see if I hit on each of them at least once, but their is neither the space or the need to hang a lantern on them. I'm sure the people looking at the PNs get a lot of bullshit resume style answers like, "I helped to increase company revenues by 60% over 3 years," or, "while studying abroad I had to get used to eating with chopsticks and other 'weird' local customs." So I focused on the stories that would set me apart the most and didn't worry if they were too esoteric or might be taken the wrong way. I figured if the person reading them actually became interested and wanted to learn more, I had a better chance. My essays included such questionable tales as: getting arrested in China and talking my way out of it; discovering and capitalizing on a terrible game breaking hack in Eve online, and; steering clients, as a consultant, to get the results I wanted. One common theme among people when they fail the process seems to be an attitude of somehow deserving to pass and the testers or the test is stacked against recognition of their unique brilliance. I can only imagine that the attitude comes across in their essays or OA responses and hurts their chances. So, don't be that guy. As a side note, Pompus Rhombus post is a spot-on description of my experience with the telephone language test.
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Nov 1, 2009 06:07
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FYI all you NFL fans in nowhereville. Talk to your MGMT officer because the NFL is giving out free online sunday ticket feeds (one per post, so set up a group viewing) or field pass radio feeds.
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Nov 1, 2009 20:49
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Vilerat posted:FYI all you NFL fans in nowhereville. Talk to your MGMT officer because the NFL is giving out free online sunday ticket feeds (one per post, so set up a group viewing) or field pass radio feeds. Already on it.
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Nov 1, 2009 21:19
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Skandiaavity posted:Vilerat - I already spoke with Mark (and he was very helpful!), did you have any advice on what not to write for the IM position coming up? During the specialist oral assessment, you'll be asked to compose a short essay. Again, we do want meaningful content but it's the quality of the writing that is often the deal maker.
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Nov 1, 2009 21:29
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I got a BEX invite for the DSS gig Friday. I guess it's really time to start ramping up on my essay practicing.
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Nov 2, 2009 17:05
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I have to ask this and apologies if the question itself may be remedial. I have read through most of this thread and I see the concept of International Relations knowledge being hammered time and time again. I am curious on how those of you who are in this line of work think a candidate would perform if they had incredible responsibility/life experiences and was looking for an 'adventurous' job so to speak. I find that hardly anyone is a guru of IR and keep up with different regions to the point of what I may be assuming from this thread. Is an individuals standard knowledge about general viewpoints of "most" regions around the globe sufficient, e.g. types of government and economic status, or are we talking in depth descriptions of said regions leading from who Israels Prime Minister and President are while also encompassing Chavez's latest movements? My fear is that although I am extremely studious in certain regions such as the Middle East, will my lack of knowledge in other areas gimp me enough that my application is comparable to a shot in the dark? Will my extensive understanding of MEast governments and their roles shine enough for a chance at Orals or because I may not be able to relay quick facts from all parts of the globe be enough to count me out? I do understanding studying will be involved, a great deal at that now that I try to recall the drat Amendments, but I am trying to gague my actual shot at this. Edit: I do read sources like The Economist but I usually skip to Middle East and Africa and could give two shits about most politics in Europe/North and East Asia. Mask fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Nov 2, 2009 |
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Nov 2, 2009 20:03
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Mask posted:I have to ask this and apologies if the question itself may be remedial. aww  worry about that when you're a higher ranking officer. You'll be told what to think and how to report for a long time before you're applying your years of hard learned regional expertise solving the worlds ills.
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Nov 2, 2009 22:33
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So I'm working through the PN right now. I have to say, this whole thing of needing someone to verify my experience is understandable yet really annoying. I've had a lot of really cool experiences in India, but most of the people who may have witnessed those experiences are people whose emails and phone numbers I definitely do not know. I feel like I'm really reaching to find cool cultural experiences that are impressive and also verifiable...
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Nov 2, 2009 22:45
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Vilerat posted:aww Sorry if that came off as a 'holier than thou' write up, I meant it more so that if one was not the most versed in IR or specifically versed in one region and not much else, how well do you think they would do through the initial process of attempting to get hired as an FSO? I just feel as if the test might be a bar higher (or several) than what I would be ready for or am I just over thinking the process?
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Nov 2, 2009 23:20
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Mask posted:Sorry if that came off as a 'holier than thou' write up, I meant it more so that if one was not the most versed in IR or specifically versed in one region and not much else, how well do you think they would do through the initial process of attempting to get hired as an FSO? I just feel as if the test might be a bar higher (or several) than what I would be ready for or am I just over thinking the process? Sorry was a bit tongue in cheek. BOF could answer this a lot better than I.
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Nov 3, 2009 00:25
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Understandable although I did re-read my post and it came off a bit douchy. Regardless, I do hope BOF can answer my question.
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Nov 3, 2009 00:40
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USAJobs Automatic Notification, at 1:30am posted:Eligible - Application Referred to Selecting Official woot 
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Nov 3, 2009 07:59
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Mask posted:Sorry if that came off as a 'holier than thou' write up, I meant it more so that if one was not the most versed in IR or specifically versed in one region and not much else, how well do you think they would do through the initial process of attempting to get hired as an FSO? I just feel as if the test might be a bar higher (or several) than what I would be ready for or am I just over thinking the process? I think what I would recommend is signing up for the next test, doing whatever prep you want/think you need, then approaching the test as a trial run. If you pass, great. If not, you will have a much better feel for where your background fits in the testing process, so you will know what to work on for the next iteration. I can tell you for certain that your "extensive understanding" of the Middle East will not get you to the orals; it will maybe help you on one or two questions on the whole FSOT. The Oral Assessment is basically testing your judgment and how well you follow directions or work with others. Area knowledge will not matter, so don't fret if you are underinformed about what is going on in the rest of the world. Your first post did make you sound like a douche, so try to avoid that approach at the orals. Keep in mind that the concept of "worldwide availability" is really being emphasized right now, especially in light of increased staffing in Iraq and Afghanistan. The Near East is a good place to have experience (especially language proficiency) these days, but try not to give the impression that you would not serve anywhere else; if the examiners infer that, you might find yourself without a passing score. Take the test and give it a try. You get to test once each year, so don't put it off too long if you think you might try more than once if the first time doesn't pan out.
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Nov 3, 2009 14:33
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Anybody have an informed opinion on whether or not the Orals are really as difficult as conventional wisdom suggests? Everything I've ever read (various internet sources, the Yahoo group, etc) describes it as being a brutal, exhaustive, extremely challenging test of the Thirteen Dimensions. Intelligent, highly qualified people prepare, practice and rehearse carefully, only to fail time and time again, and the statistics seem to suggest that fewer people walk away victorious than get into Harvard. Is it really that difficult, assuming one has decent social skills, composure and the ability to correctly execute spoken or written instructions?
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Nov 3, 2009 14:53
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This is just my opinion: The Orals are very selective, but not necessary difficult. I went into them casually and without preparation (I had a completely different career in mind when I took them on a whim), did well enough to pass, and went from there. Can't say I found it difficult, but I will admit to being genuinely surprised to hear I had passed. Whatever fatigue I might have felt at the time evaporated during my walk back to the hotel. That said, if I hadn't passed both the written and oral exams on the first try, I would probably have less positive things to say about the process. The Orals are a higher bar than the FSOT for sure, but hardly impossible.
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Nov 3, 2009 15:35
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Mask posted:I have to ask this and apologies if the question itself may be remedial. I would encourage aspiring FSOs to not even bother studying IR unless they would be happy doing something with IR outside of the Foreign Service. There's nothing in the FSOT that requires knowledge of international relations beyond general interest. Even if the Foreign Service is your one and only dream job, it's smarter to be capable of doing something else while you wait out the long and uncertain Foreign Service process. Otherwise you'll spend years scrapping with other unpaid, over-educated interns in DC while waiting on your results.
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Nov 3, 2009 16:27
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Shoot, seeing this thread reminded me I have to get my transcripts and supplementary material and fax them in... oh yeah, is there any method of updating a contact? i.e. say someone typed firstname.lastname@email.com, but it was really lastname.firstname@email.com? Or it just not worthwhile if you've got other contacts? (and wasn't the oral exam the reason why most people fail the FSOT, BOF?)
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Nov 3, 2009 16:30
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Business of Ferrets posted:Take the test and give it a try. You get to test once each year, so don't put it off too long if you think you might try more than once if the first time doesn't pan out. Yeah, that's a good way of looking at it. I'm gonna register for the next test sometime in the next week or two. Business of Ferrets posted:Keep in mind that the concept of "worldwide availability" is really being emphasized right now, especially in light of increased staffing in Iraq and Afghanistan. The Near East is a good place to have experience (especially language proficiency) these days, but try not to give the impression that you would not serve anywhere else; if the examiners infer that, you might find yourself without a passing score. The FSO I talked with last year said if you're single you're almost guaranteed a tour in one of those two in your first 5 years. FWIW, if you're applying for the language bonus in the hiring process you're guaranteed a placement at a post using that language for one of your first two tours, and another one later in your career. Of course you could wind up in one of those wildcard ones, like the Russian-speakers in Israel that were mentioned earlier in this thread (I think).
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Nov 3, 2009 16:37
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Thanks Business of Ferrets! I'm not sure if the Orals are even possible to study for (at least, not in the conventional sense), and I think the structure may play to my strengths, so perhaps I'll just show up and wing it...assuming I'm ever fortunate enough to be invited.
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Nov 3, 2009 16:51
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ugh quote isn't edit Scandiaavity posted:(and wasn't the oral exam the reason why most people fail the FSOT, BOF?) I think so, the written part is more to filter out the white-noise applicants. There's also the black magic and voodoo associated with the QEP stage.
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Nov 3, 2009 16:56
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Pompous Rhombus posted:The FSO I talked with last year said if you're single you're almost guaranteed a tour in one of those two in your first 5 years. That's bullshit. Iraqistan jobs are purely volunteer at this point. Your first two tours are directed however, but they don't direct you to unaccompanied.
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Nov 3, 2009 18:41
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Vilerat posted:That's bullshit. Iraqistan jobs are purely volunteer at this point. Your first two tours are directed however, but they don't direct you to unaccompanied. Ah, good to know. Can't say I fancy living in a compound. Are they at all popular to volunteer for? I assume they pay more and get you put higher on the list the next time you're bidding on an assignment, and I imagine some people would like the challenge.
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Nov 3, 2009 19:10
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Vilerat posted:That's bullshit. Iraqistan jobs are purely volunteer at this point. Your first two tours are directed however, but they don't direct you to unaccompanied. Oh, good. Been once, wouldn't particularly fancy going again unless I had to.
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Nov 3, 2009 19:30
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Pompous Rhombus posted:Ah, good to know. Can't say I fancy living in a compound. Depends. Those assignments are huge career enhancers and the money is incredible. In Iraq at least they give you three R&R trips back home during the year which makes the tour do'able. I'm pretty sure Iraq took a few years off of my liver too and the whole 'work hard party hard' aspect is in full force.
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Nov 3, 2009 19:30
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Vilerat posted:That's bullshit. Iraqistan jobs are purely volunteer at this point. Your first two tours are directed however, but they don't direct you to unaccompanied. I wouldn't throw that out there. We had a few posts that was unaccompanied for EFMs under 21.
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Nov 3, 2009 19:41
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So if I tell the dudes that I'm actually interested in going to one of the "danger zones" right off the bat, (For example, I'm really down with working in Pakistan, which I guess is a place they need people) would that pretty much guarantee that I'd be going there as one of my first couple assignments?
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Nov 3, 2009 19:48
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TCD posted:Uhhh... Are those directed? I thought those were all volunteer only.I know Iraq/Afghanistan/Pakistan are volunteer only right now.
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Nov 3, 2009 19:53
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CherryCola posted:So if I tell the dudes that I'm actually interested in going to one of the "danger zones" right off the bat, (For example, I'm really down with working in Pakistan, which I guess is a place they need people) would that pretty much guarantee that I'd be going there as one of my first couple assignments? Nope. HR will work out what goes on the new hire's bid list which is a mix of things. If you get a bunch of danger posts and rank them high odds are you'll get one, if you don't it depends on how brave your classmates are. Whatever you tell the interviewers won't have any effect.
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Nov 4, 2009 00:19
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Vilerat posted:Are those directed? I thought those were all volunteer only.I know Iraq/Afghanistan/Pakistan are volunteer only right now. My experiences earlier this year run contrary to what Vile and AKA are saying. We had unaccompanied posts(either under 21) or a few spots were no EFMs. These didn't necessarily have to be in Iraq/Afghanistan. Additionally, some of the posts were accompanied, but I know a few EFMs who made the choice to not accompany. The directed list isn't exactly sunshine and roses, and those with families tend to snag the "Londons". People coming in just need to be aware of this, and often, you'll only have 1-2 weeks during a very crazy time to figure out your country preference. Additionally, an OMS who came in with my class has already been through an evacuation.
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Nov 4, 2009 06:48
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I went through the IMS process in 2007 and got screened out after clearance at the final suitability review stage or whatever it was called. Is there someone I should contact to appeal that decision (for those in the know) to make me reelegible for this hiring round? Otherwise, should I just throw my inquiry letter to the generic Office of Recruitment, Examination and Employment address?
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Nov 4, 2009 10:22
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Hawkline posted:I went through the IMS process in 2007 and got screened out after clearance at the final suitability review stage or whatever it was called. Is there someone I should contact to appeal that decision (for those in the know) to make me reelegible for this hiring round? Otherwise, should I just throw my inquiry letter to the generic Office of Recruitment, Examination and Employment address? Just reapply.
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Nov 4, 2009 12:23
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What do Foreign Affairs Officers do and how do they differ from FSOs, other than being stationed domestically? This is the little blurb on the DoS site quote:The challenges you'll take on as a Foreign Affairs Officer will directly contribute to policy making in Washington, D.C. You could work with interagency partners, Congress or our overseas posts to help formulate and implement policy decisions, and manage foreign policy programs. Your assignments could relate to regional affairs or transnational issues such as arms control, drugs, terrorism, environmental issues or humanitarian affairs.
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Nov 4, 2009 19:50
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Does anyone know if going through with buying an FSOT study guide like on off amazon is worth it? I'm trying to get some practice in on essays, but because Im not really taking the FSOT, I'm not sure it's worth the investment. Also, are there decent websites anyone recommends that supports some sort of writing development in some fashion? EDIT: I checked the yahoo group and didn't find anything terribly helpful, at least for the writing portion itself. There are tips and reviews on which study guide, but nothing I guess Im exactly looking for.
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Nov 4, 2009 20:15
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