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grody but still def posted:Post some examples please. And you are insane if you think the IWC was just as big or bigger in late 99-00. Do you have any idea how much lower percentage of people even had home computers back then? I think it was much bigger than it is now. I used to post on all sorts of wrestling-related boards with huge populations that have been defunct for years now. The Zone, Rajahwwe forums, etc. Nowadays the only wrestling related board I even visit is this one. Everyone had a computer in 2000, but when the wrestling viewing audience crumbled so did those communities. Come on man, by the time Sept 11th happened 01 the entire country was dealing with it online. If we were talking 94-95, I'd agree, but by 99-2000, everyone had a drat PC and they were using it to discuss how overrated The Rock is. Supreme Allah fucked around with this message at 01:19 on Nov 5, 2009 |
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Nov 5, 2009 01:17
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Supreme Allah posted:I think it was much bigger than it is now.
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Nov 5, 2009 01:21
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Supreme Allah posted:
No, they didn't. In 1999 about 40% of American households had internet access. This jumped to 60% by 2001, and 70% by 2005. Edit: And if you buy into the idea that wrestling fans are uneducated, keep in mind that there is a correlation between internet usage and level of education. MassRafTer fucked around with this message at 01:26 on Nov 5, 2009 |
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Nov 5, 2009 01:23
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MassRayPer posted:No, they didn't. By your own numbers we're talking about the PC boom period, where usage jumped 20 percent in the two year span between 1999-2001. It only gained 10 percent in the next four years. To me that sounds like a pretty popular time for online communities. Supreme Allah fucked around with this message at 01:42 on Nov 5, 2009 |
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Nov 5, 2009 01:38
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Supreme Allah posted:By your own numbers we're talking about the PC boom period, where usage jumped 20 percent in the two year span between 1999-2001. It only gained 10 percent in the next four years. To me that sounds like a pretty popular time for online communities. Still far smaller than today.
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Nov 5, 2009 01:38
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grody but still def posted:Still far smaller than today. We're not even talking about the popularity of wrestling among the general population in that period, are we? When a 3.x rating on Raw would have meant that half the males between 18-34 died in their sleep the night before.
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Nov 5, 2009 01:43
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Supreme Allah posted:We're not even talking about the popularity of wrestling among the general population in that period, are we? When a 3.x rating on Raw would have meant that half the males between 18-34 died in their sleep the night before. A 3.X today is faaaaaaaar larger than a 3.X in 99/00. We're talking about the IWC, the INTERNET wrestling community, not the amount of casual fans that followed during the hottest period.
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Nov 5, 2009 01:46
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Supreme Allah posted:By your own numbers we're talking about the PC boom period, where usage jumped 20 percent in the two year span between 1999-2001. It only gained 10 percent in the next four years. To me that sounds like a pretty popular time for online communities. Internet usage jumped like a billion percent between 1992 and 1995!
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Nov 5, 2009 01:48
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And we aren't talking about 99/00. We are talking specifically about the Spring of 1999 when this happened. Yes things started to explode during this period, but in early 99 the internet wrestling scene was a lot more primitive than it was today. And more specifically, we are talking about WCW in the Spring of 99, when their fanbase made up less than one third of the total wrestling fan base.
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Nov 5, 2009 01:50
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I didn't see where we were talking just about the early part of 1999. I thought someone mentioned 1999-2001. There's a pretty big difference. I checked a few stat sites and PC ownership is expected to top out at 70 percent. If ownership was at 60 percent by the end of 2001 then my argument has merit, by simply comparing the percentage of overall population that had PC's in both periods, to the percentage of the overall population that watched wrestling. If we're just talking about the first half of 1999, then nevermind.
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Nov 5, 2009 02:10
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Supreme Allah posted:I didn't see where we were talking just about the early part of 1999. I thought someone mentioned 1999-2001. They're talking about an ad in a magazine promoting WCW that ran once and no one can ever remember seeing it, no pictures of it exist, only a comment in a thread on another forum years later. A one time thing only one person claims to have seen that everyone else is quoting as a fact.
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Nov 5, 2009 02:24
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Well the Observer is widely known for just printing whatever the gently caress Dave can think up
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Nov 5, 2009 02:26
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What did 1999 Internet think of X-Pac heat?
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Nov 5, 2009 02:26
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TL posted:What did 1999 Internet think of X-Pac heat? that he was a good worker with a bad attitude but had a fun tag team with kane and they looked forward to his matches.
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Nov 5, 2009 02:29
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Ktik posted:They're talking about an ad in a magazine promoting WCW that ran once and no one can ever remember seeing it, no pictures of it exist, only a comment in a thread on another forum years later. A one time thing only one person claims to have seen that everyone else is quoting as a fact. No, we're talking about a quote from a guy who was supposedly going through old Observers and transcribing hilarious WCW quotes. He wasn't trying to start a rumor about a loving ad, he posted hundreds of quotes. Hundreds. So if he made it up, he put it in with a bunch of legitimate quotes and put a lot of effort in. Hell, if people want I'll loving call WOR the next time they take calls and ask Dave himself. Or hell, I'll email Scotsman and ask if he has Observers from 1999 since he bought yearly bundles of a few years. But if Dave did actually write that, there's a good chance he still has a copy of the ad since he saves hard copies of EVERYTHING printed about wrestling.
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Nov 5, 2009 02:44
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Just send an email to mailbag IMO
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Nov 5, 2009 02:45
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If you're going to get others involved in doing some wrestling research, can we ask about the attendance figures for WrestleMania 3. I still say that they didn't lie about the figure.
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Nov 5, 2009 02:56
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Rusty Shackelford posted:If you're going to get others involved in doing some wrestling research, can we ask about the attendance figures for WrestleMania 3. I still say that they didn't lie about the figure. yet the guy who booked the venue for WWF does...strange.
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Nov 5, 2009 02:57
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grody but still def posted:yet the guy who booked the venue for WWF does...strange. Post proof or he didn't say that.
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Nov 5, 2009 02:58
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Rusty Shackelford posted:Post proof or he didn't say that. Should we start posting scans of old Observers now? Dave Meltzer called Zane Bresloff the guy who promoted WWF live events while working on a story on WM 3 years later. He asked if the 93,000 figure was accurate. Bresloff said no, and that it was 78,000 with 2,000 of those being comps. He later faxed Meltzer receipts from the building. Meltzer has always been very consistent about this and cites him as the source everytime he's asked.
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Nov 5, 2009 03:04
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MassRayPer posted:Should we start posting scans of old Observers now? You're quoting some form of the same thing that I'm quoting here. quote:I think Dave Meltzer was the first one to call this to peoples attention. Here's the facts as to why it was 78,000 (I'm writing this with Meltzer as a source). First of all you have to understand that the WWF back in those days routinely lied about attendance numbers on TV to make them bigger than they were. Zane Bresloff was the man whom promoted WrestleMania III for McMahon in Michigan. He and Dave Meltzer had a conversation on the phone years later about WrestleMania III. Bresloff was quoted as saying something to the effect of that the WWF has been quoting that 93,000 attendance number for so long, he thought they were starting to believe it themselves. Meltzer asked him whether or not 93,000 was the real attendance figure, and Bresloff said no. He later sent Meltzer a fax of the official statement from the building from back in 1987. This gave the attendance as being just over 78,000 with 2,3000 comps. Meltzer had never even questioned the 93,000 number before, and the actual gate (money made from ticket sales) was the same on the fax as the number given to Meltzer by the WWF back in 1987 when he didn't even question the 93,000. Meltzer also was doing an article on WWE history where he had to research attendance, and officials let him go through records of all of their major shows (all the stadium WrestleManias, SummerSlam '92, etc.) In almost all the cases, the attendance numbers he found on the official records were different from the announced attendance figure on TV. They recently started announcing figures that weren't as inflated and pretty much accurate, starting with their big Royal Rumble at the Alamodome in 1997. Meltzer asked Vince McMahon himself why they used to inflate the numbers, because the shows were sold out themselves and the real number was impressive enough. Why add a few thousand? Vince was quoted as saying what appears on television people should consider for entertainment purposes. This actually isn't exclusive to WWE, as other forms of sports and entertainment often lie about the actual attendance to make it sound impressive. Such companies I could name as examples would be Pride and K-1. So in conclusion, the reason the WWE gave this inflated 93,000 attendance number was because they wanted to proclaim and all time indoor attendance record, and they had to beat an attedance number done by the Pope, while at the same time having an attendance figure that nobody would ever beat. http://www.wrestleview.com/faq/?article=wwe That's tertiary evidence, and if you have scans of the Observers, that would probably solve several questions.
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Nov 5, 2009 03:18
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Rusty Shackelford posted:You're quoting some form of the same thing that I'm quoting here. No, I am posting what Dave Meltzer says EVERY TIME someone calls into Wrestling Observer Radio and asks this question. Seriously. It has come up a lot, he answers the same thing each time. He's used Bresloff as a source on his WCW articles as well since Bresloff went on to work for WCW so he doesn't just cite him on this.
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Nov 5, 2009 03:27
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My question is how come Dave Meltzer and 1980s Vince McMahon are the same person?
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Nov 5, 2009 03:30
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Jerusalem posted:My question is how come Dave Meltzer and 1980s Vince McMahon are the same person? vince mcmahon had made a journey when he landed on this planet to take over as the world's best wrestling promoter, however when he met vince sr, he was told he could not become promoter until he had purged himself of all evil. mcmahon took this very hard and went to meditate for years, until one day he purged himself of all the evil and it manifested itself into one Dave Meltzer. after that only then was vince mcmahon allowed to become kami.
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Nov 5, 2009 03:32
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Jerusalem posted:My question is how come Dave Meltzer and 1980s Vince McMahon are the same person? Because Hulk Hogan taught them both everything he knows about the business.
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Nov 5, 2009 03:32
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MassRayPer posted:No, I am posting what Dave Meltzer says EVERY TIME someone calls into Wrestling Observer Radio and asks this question. Seriously. It has come up a lot, he answers the same thing each time. He's used Bresloff as a source on his WCW articles as well since Bresloff went on to work for WCW so he doesn't just cite him on this. That's the problem. Only one "insider" in the whole world has claimed that the 93,173 number isn't true while everyone else sticks with it. Even Silverdome.com (which is gone, like the stadium) said the number was 93,173. If the stadium held 80,000 for football and 90,000 for religious events (with a large stage area), why couldn't it hold 93,173 for wrestling?
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Nov 5, 2009 03:37
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MassRayPer posted:Because Hulk Hogan taught them both everything he knows about the business. Until Shawn Michaels and Triple H tried to HOLD THE HULKSTER DOWN BROTHER! I like to imagine a backstage meeting where Hogan starts shaking and then points his fist at a PBJ eating Triple H and bellows,"YOUUUUUUU!!!!" grody but still def posted:vince mcmahon had made a journey when he landed on this planet to take over as the world's best wrestling promoter, however when he met vince sr, he was told he could not become promoter until he had purged himself of all evil. mcmahon took this very hard and went to meditate for years, until one day he purged himself of all the evil and it manifested itself into one Dave Meltzer. after that only then was vince mcmahon allowed to become kami. Wait a minute... the meditation scar is on Vince's right hand side. That means that the evil one is and always has been.... Vince McMahon! 
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Nov 5, 2009 03:38
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Why do people have to lose in their hometown?
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Nov 5, 2009 03:39
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Quote #98 "WCW took out a huge ad in USA Today with the new logo which read "Looks like something a bird left on the hood of my car", and never mentioned wrestling once" - The Wrestling Observer Newsletter: April 12, 1999 If you're looking for an Observer scan, start with that edition.
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Nov 5, 2009 03:41
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projecthalaxy posted:Why do people have to lose in their hometown? heel heat.
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Nov 5, 2009 03:42
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Rusty Shackelford posted:That's the problem. Only one "insider" in the whole world has claimed that the 93,173 number isn't true while everyone else sticks with it. Even Silverdome.com (which is gone, like the stadium) said the number was 93,173. If the stadium held 80,000 for football and 90,000 for religious events (with a large stage area), why couldn't it hold 93,173 for wrestling? Fine, post a screen shot of the site. And he isn't the only insider who claims it, have you seriously not heard anyone else claim the figure is fudged? And do you find it that hard to believe it is fudged? In pro wrestling, a business this loving ridiculously sketchy? Even real sports teams fudge their attendence figures, for regular season games the Yankees would report the number of tickets sold if a bunch of people didn't show rather than the number of people in the building. PRIDE would fudge numbers for its events. It happens alot.
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Nov 5, 2009 03:45
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Rusty Shackelford posted:Even Silverdome.com (which is gone, like the stadium) The stadium is still there. The city is actually trying to sell it at auction.
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Nov 5, 2009 03:47
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MassRayPer posted:Fine, post a screen shot of the site. http://web.archive.org/web/20060410081447/http://www.silverdome.com/ The whole story begins with that conversation with Meltzer. That is the source of this legend and everyone else is just repeating it.
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Nov 5, 2009 03:50
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Rusty Shackelford posted:http://web.archive.org/web/20060410081447/http://www.silverdome.com/ so you're saying dave meltzer is flat out lying
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Nov 5, 2009 03:51
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grody but still def posted:so you're saying dave meltzer is flat out lying I'm saying Zane was wrong/lying. He was working for WCW at the time.
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Nov 5, 2009 03:53
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Chilly McFreeze posted:The stadium is still there. The city is actually trying to sell it at auction. Yeah, and the auction site is going with the 93,173 number.
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Nov 5, 2009 03:56
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Wait, the Pope's visit was AFTER WrestleMania 3. Why would the numbers need to be higher than an event that hadn't even happened? Also, the Pope's visit was larger than WM 3.
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Nov 5, 2009 04:01
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At the risk of sounding like a sandy vagina, can you guys take this to the journalism thread? I ask one little question and it develops into this shitstorm. Yeesh!
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Nov 5, 2009 04:05
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I should annoy Meltzer and get him to post a scan of the stuff Bresloff sent him because now I am really curious.
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Nov 5, 2009 04:07
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I'm doing some preliminary research into maybe booking a Wrestlemania weekend vacation to Phoenix. Has anyone else here done that? Any tips or advice? I work in hotels so I can get a deal on a hotel room, but is it difficult to get, say, a rental car that weekend? Do flights sell out quick?
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Nov 5, 2009 04:10
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