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FitFortDanga posted:Ozu is considered old hat now, but how many people were really familiar with him 10 years ago? Egbert Souse posted:I think it's self reflexive, as Criterion has become the Janus Films (and sort of 1970s New Line Cinema) of home video. Theatrical re-release and revival runs aren't common anymore, so home presentation is the next best thing. While taking film classes, a big percentage of screenings were via Criterion discs. They're not influencing outside of presentation quality, but rather acting as a quality distributor of important films. This sort of thing seems to be cyclical. Back in the '70s and '80s Ozu was considered part of the canon that you needed to know in order to be a proper film snob. Pretty much like it is today: Kurosawa and Bergman and directors like that were part of the film snob canon, but they were so mainstream they were basically the free square. You didn't get any film cred for being into them. Ozu and like Truffaut or Godard and maybe Eisenstein were the entry-level film snob directors. But this was back when if you were into film that meant that you went to a lot of arthouse and revival house cinemas, and if you had access to one you might spend a lot of time watching films in library projection rooms. There was a bit of an echo-chamber effect here, but it was mostly because you'd hear that there was this bitchin' film you ought to see---like Tokyo Monogatari (1953) or whatever---but you'd only see it if you actively made the effort to look around for it. Might have to drive a ways to get to a showing. Probably have to wait awhile, months or maybe years for something comparatively obscure. Occasionally you'd catch something interesting on broadcast television, but that was more likely to be the sort of mainstream-arthouse film, film snob 101 stuff---Seven Samurai (1954) and Seventh Seal (1957) and so on. When video rental started becoming a way your average joe moviegoer watched films, your chances of picking up anything in the film snob's canon was still pretty low. By the time VHS was reaching the end of its life (the mid '90s) more and more stuff was becoming available on VHS, but you pretty much had to live near a video rental store that had a large collection to have any hope of being able to find anything obscure. Most video rental stores carried your typical selection of mainstream Hollywood stuff with just a sliver of quote foreign unquote films and other stuff. So if you were a film snob living in the era of the VHS, you were almost certainly watching a lot of films in formats other than VHS. For many reasons, that appears to have changed sometime after the introduction of the DVD. Between the advent of middle class home theatre systems, internet retailing, lower film prices (anyone remember when a film on VHS was like US$80?), and places like Netflix we've ended up in a world where home video is one of the primary mechanisms by which film aficionados watch off-mainstream films. I mean a lot of the folks in CineD have seen a lot of what is in, for example, the Criterion Collection---but how many have seen these films any way other than on home video? I don't really have a formal thesis here, but my observation is that canon used to be this broad slew of films that you'd see by hook or by crook in a wide variety of formats and venues, typically over a long period of time. Even if you were really into a director, chances are there were some films that you just expected not being able to see due to availability. Nowadays it seems like the Criterion catalogue more or less is the canon---or, more than that, it isn't just merely the canon, it's the entire non-Hollywood universe of art film. If a film isn't in the Criterion Collection you can just about expect a mention of the film to be met with blank stares from self-identified students of film. And as soon as it is picked up by Criterion (or Masters of Cinema, or whatever) for a DVD/Blu-Ray release you can expect to hear ecstatic nattering about it in internet film discussions in no time. I mean bring up Orson Wells in a film forum and you'll hear all kinds of praise for F for Fake (1973), but you'll be lucky to hear any mention of Chimes at Midnight (1965). I defy you to come up with an explanation for this other than the `Criterion Effect'.
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Nov 21, 2009 04:46
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I finally picked up Brazil after years of being too cheap (and broke) to pick it up and of course it's the non-anamorphic set despite assurances it wasn't. Would any of you with access to the B&N coupons be willing to hook a British brother up and pick me up a few Criterions and maybe I can pick you up something over here, as well as reimbursing you of course.
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Nov 21, 2009 05:16
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Theatrical is so hard to come by, though. Unless you're lucky enough to live in places like LA/SF, NYC, Austin, or DC.
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Nov 21, 2009 06:01
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SubG posted:This sort of thing seems to be cyclical. Back in the '70s and '80s Ozu was considered part of the canon that you needed to know in order to be a proper film snob. Pretty much like it is today: Kurosawa and Bergman and directors like that were part of the film snob canon, but they were so mainstream they were basically the free square. You didn't get any film cred for being into them. Ozu and like Truffaut or Godard and maybe Eisenstein were the entry-level film snob directors. This reads like something I'd expect to see at cf.org. It sounds like you're bemoaning the fact that it's too easy for the common man to be into film now. Everyone's into Ozu and Truffaut because of that damned "Criterion Effect", it's not special like the old days when we had to go to a theater. And you single out students of film... are we talking 19 or 20 year-old kids? How learned do you expect them to be? It also sounds a bit like circular reasoning to me. It's canon because it's on Criterion, and Criterion only releases canon. Canon according to whom? Oh, and I've seen Chimes at Midnight, how many film snob points do I earn for that? F for Fake is better anyway... and The Trial is better than either one, and that's even not on Criterion (at least, not yet). God, who gives a gently caress anyway? Shouldn't we all be feeling blessed for the wealth of cinematic riches at our fingertips? Not just from Criterion, but Kino, Image, Facets, Warner, MoC, BFI, Artificial Eye, Milestone, AnimEigo, and the DVD industry in general. I went to a two-day Brakhage retrospective at a theater (  ). It was wonderful, and I'm not ashamed to admit that it was Criterion who introduced me to Brakhage. I most likely would have discovered him on my own eventually, but maybe I wouldn't have.
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Nov 21, 2009 06:38
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FitFortDanga posted:It sounds like you're bemoaning the fact that it's too easy for the common man to be into film now. Everyone's into Ozu and Truffaut because of that damned "Criterion Effect", it's not special like the old days when we had to go to a theater. You made this point about how 10 years ago (before the Criterion DVDs) few people would have heard about Ozu. My point is that this didn't used to be the case---Ozu had been absolutely part of the body of work nearly all fans of film were aware of for years. Ozu fell off the radar, and I was suggesting that that probably had a lot to do with the fact that his films weren't available on DVD. Then when they became available on DVD, presto, suddenly he was part of the canon---or common body of knowledge or whatever you want to call it---again. This is also a response to Egbert Souse's comment that Criterion wasn't really influential outside of making high-quality prints available. Again, I don't really have a formal thesis here, but it seems like the widespread availability of many films (on DVD) seems to have had this effect where films that aren't available disappear from the common discourse. This didn't appear to be the case back when there was less homogeneity in how hardcore film fans watched films. I'm not saying things were better when films were harder to see, I'm just observing this apparent change in discourse.
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Nov 21, 2009 07:22
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SubG posted:Again, I don't really have a formal thesis here, but it seems like the widespread availability of many films (on DVD) seems to have had this effect where films that aren't available disappear from the common discourse. This didn't appear to be the case back when there was less homogeneity in how hardcore film fans watched films. I'm not saying things were better when films were harder to see, I'm just observing this apparent change in discourse. This may seem like semantics, but the old discourse hasn't been lost, it is simply overshadowed by the larger discourse of more available films since more people are able to discuss those films. It's not that hardcore film fans have now lost their scope and vision of film and limited it to the DVD cannon, but rather that availability on DVD of a large part of the cannon has allowed people who were never hardcore film fans affordable and convenient access to these films. This, now much broader, group of ardent film fans has, as a group, more homogeneous seeming taste in film, but the variety in individual tastes is probably broader than it ever was. This isn't to say there shouldn't be concern about the prestigious place Criterion has taken in the matter. It's certainly frustrating when films I think deserve wider discourse are ignored by them, and hence not on a large portion of people's radar, but they wouldn't have any wider discourse if we suddenly went back ten years.
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Nov 21, 2009 13:25
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Wasn't someone annoyed that this thread had turned into a glorified coupons thread?
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Nov 21, 2009 15:05
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Egbert Souse posted:Theatrical is so hard to come by, though. Unless you're lucky enough to live in places like LA/SF, NYC, Austin, or DC. Yeah, if you were one of the lucky few chosen to live there.
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Nov 21, 2009 15:35
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LaptopGun posted:Wasn't someone annoyed that this thread had turned into a glorified coupons thread? That's what this thread still is basically, were it not for vertov starting an interesting thread of discussion and a handful of people addressing it. Mike_V fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Nov 21, 2009 |
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Nov 21, 2009 21:43
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FitFortDanga posted:...students of film... are we talking 19 or 20 year-old kids? How learned do you expect them to be? As a 19-year-old student of film, let me thrown in my two cents. I'm obviously not completely learned in film yet. Even though I average about one movie a day, I've only seen half an Ozu, one Truffaut, I haven't even touched Godard, etc. But thanks to the rise in DVDs I can take comfort in the fact that it's something I'll be able to get into eventually without too much trouble. Maybe this makes me a little lackadaisical in my studies. Breathless is instant on Netflix, and I still haven't watched it because it's something 'I'll get to eventually.' What I really wanna say is that part of this new discourse no one's mentioned is the advent of movie channels on TV like Turner Classic Movies and IFC. Those channels were the basis of my education for 5 years. I discovered a ton of stuff through them and it really helped develop my love for movies without having to go to great lengths. If there was something I'd heard was 'good' I'd watch it. Sometimes, I'd watch the channels on a whim. I remember the night Mia Farrow guest hosted TCM and I watched her lineup on a whim because I liked her in The Purple Rose of Cairo . What she chose proved to be one of the most formative nights of my film life. The lineup was Rashomon, The Exterminating Angel, Fanny and Alexander and Raging Bull . I'd only heard of Raging Bull, but I watched the first two, then taped the latter two and watched them later. I loved all those films, I still do. Fanny and Alexander is still one of my favorite movies, Scorsese is still one of my favorite directors. So yeah, I do agree that DVDs are wonderful for opening people up to film, but I think TV stations are just as important if not more. While a selection of DVDs lets you choose what you want, TV stations just throw things at you and let you watch at your leisure, which I think is great way to discover new movies. Sorry for all the gushing.
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Nov 21, 2009 23:16
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Friedpundit posted:As a 19-year-old student of film, let me thrown in my two cents. I'm obviously not completely learned in film yet. Even though I average about one movie a day, I've only seen half an Ozu, one Truffaut, I haven't even touched Godard, etc. But thanks to the rise in DVDs I can take comfort in the fact that it's something I'll be able to get into eventually without too much trouble. Maybe this makes me a little lackadaisical in my studies. Breathless is instant on Netflix, and I still haven't watched it because it's something 'I'll get to eventually.' Well, availability is all fine and good, but television screenings only provide the text. Nothing else. This is where DVDs and home entertainment are really re-democratizing film culture. No longer are you required to spend thousands of dollars to enroll in academic courses. Certainly the criticism provided on the DVDs is surface-level at best, but it is a jumping off point that is moving film study back from the exclusive halls of academia. As a bit of an aside, and this is based on my anecdotal experience at my alma mater, but undergraduate film education at state universities is embarrassingly insufficient and continue to revolve around auteurism and national cinemas. If I have any advice for people looking to pursue an MA or PhD it is to buy anthologies like "Film Theory and Criticism" edited by Braudy and Cohen or the "Movies and Methods" volumes by Bill Nichols. PS: vertov, I don't have platinum so I can't send IMs, but do you know of any popular culture conferences that would allow paper submissions?
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Nov 22, 2009 00:21
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Right around when I was 16, the floodgates opened for me. In that year alone I saw... I think I saw Citizen Kane, 8 1/2, Notorious, Nosferatu, The Maltese Falcon, and Lawrence of Arabia for the first time all in 2001. Also read David Cook's History of Narrative Film from cover to cover. It was all thanks to DVD. That is when I took film seriously. A lot of encounters with great films wouldn't have happened if not for chance. I was depressed while my stepfather was dying in a hospital. I went to a Best Buy to find a movie to watch while I was spending the night in town. It was F for Fake. Now one of my favorite films.
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Nov 22, 2009 01:54
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Mike_V posted:PS: vertov, I don't have platinum so I can't send IMs, but do you know of any popular culture conferences that would allow paper submissions? I don't have platinum either, so I wouldn't be able to receive them. There are a lot of conferences, and in general most are "open submission." Some schools also have workshops that are generally meant for their own students, but they sometimes are open to outsiders as well. To narrow things down, are you limited by travel? If so, what part of the country? Also, are you looking for something where most of the papers would be on film or a variety of media/other disciplines? You might want to ask your adviser or a professor your had if he or she knows of something that might be up your alley (assuming they know what you're interested in).
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Nov 22, 2009 22:04
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Criterion was doing a "trade in your digibook for a hardcase" thing right? Does anyone have the link/details for that? For the blu-rays I mean.
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Nov 22, 2009 23:34
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You don't trade it in, you send $5 and they send you a case. All they have right now is The Third Man.
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Nov 23, 2009 01:43
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Amazon has 50% OFF on all released Criterion BluRays. 32% off on pre-orders.
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Nov 24, 2009 01:31
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Man, even 8 years after sitting through Tokyo Story, ffffffuck Ozu. Mizoguchi and Kurosawa fo lyfe.
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Nov 24, 2009 13:18
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Peaceful Anarchy posted:This may seem like semantics, but the old discourse hasn't been lost, it is simply overshadowed by the larger discourse of more available films since more people are able to discuss those films. Like I've said a couple times already I can't really enunciate this as a formal thesis. But it seems like there used to be different schools of film making, film interpretation, and so forth. If you looked at a Hollywood studio film, an Italian neorealist film, something from the French New Wave, a film from the East Coast film schools, and an independent film these felt like radically different things. Not just in terms of budget, kind of story, and so forth. But rather as different takes on film as a narrative medium, what it can accomplish, what it is for, and how it relates to its audience and so on. How you (generic `you') would approach these films as a matter of personal criticism would likewise be wildly different. The new consensus view appears to be broader in terms of the kinds of film it admits---the average film snob is probably more film-literate today than previously---but the actual critical apparatus seems to have been flattened. I'm just sorta thinking out loud here, but it's sorta like the development of the institutional mode in narrative film, or the use of colour in early colour films. You can see in some films the fact that these things---which are so familiar to viewers now that they're effectively transparent---are things that are being actively hammered out. It feels like something similar has happened with criticism and thinking about film. Once upon a time it was something that was still up in the air, still something to be argued about, something to be fretted over. Now it seems to be such a settled matter that it's difficult to even explain how anything could be different.
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Nov 25, 2009 03:18
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Now that the sale is officially over, anyone want to share what their haul was? I went a little overboard this time, but it's so hard to resist.  #001: Grand Illusion #017: Salò, or the 120 Days of Sodom (2-Disc Edition) #049: Nights of Cabiria (Out of Print) #058: Peeping Tom #070: The Last Temptation of Christ #102: The Discreet Charm of the Bourgeoisie #143: That Obscure Object of Desire #167: The Complete Monterey Pop Festival (Blu-Ray) #261: Fanny and Alexander (5-Disc Boxed Set) #289: Hoop Dreams #290: The Phantom of Liberty #325: Kind Hearts and Coronets #381: La Haine #384: Vengeance is Mine #385: Army of Shadows #397: Ivan’s Childhood #411: Berlin Alexanderplatz #421: Pierrot Le Fou (Blu-Ray) #426: The Ice Storm #439: Trafic #447: Le Doulos #455: White Dog #458: El Norte (Blu-Ray) #478: Last Year in Marienbad (Blu-Ray) #483: Repulsion (Blu-Ray) #486: Homicide Apart from this, I've been considering getting Z since I've been reading up on the Greek junta, but I'm a little put off by the fact that it contains an essay by Armond White. I know that's a petty thing to consider, but seriously...Armond White. 
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Nov 25, 2009 18:00
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The First Films of Samuel Fuller Pickup On South Street The Naked Kiss Shock Corridor White Dog + whatever my mom got me for Christmas White Dog has an essay by Armond White too... 
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Nov 25, 2009 18:18
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Friedpundit posted:White Dog has an essay by Armond White too... Really? Son of a bitch. I haven't had the chance to read the material it came with yet. 
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Nov 25, 2009 18:21
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I skipped this time since apparently there's another one coming in the next month or two anyway and I needed new clothes more than some DVDs. Six Moral Tales will be mine next time.
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Nov 25, 2009 19:52
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7 copies of The Third Man on Blu, 15 on DVD.  Got Ran and Contempt for resell after I watch them, Nights of Cabiria (which may not ship), Last Year at Marienbad (Blu), and Night and Fog. Also bought as Christmas presents for family: Richard III, M, Beauty and the Beast, The Red Balloon/White Mane, and For All Mankind (DVD). Would have picked up Z if it had a Blu edition. It was hard to pass on Mr. Hulot's Holiday, The Red Shoes, Mon Oncle, Wild Strawberries, and Spartacus again... but they're obvious picks for BluRay. Especially since we're probably getting the first two next year.
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Nov 25, 2009 21:48
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Amazon has a fairly good sale on a few titles now: http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.ht...g=dhshopping-20 $21 for Seven Samurai, 10 BluRays for $15-18 each.
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Nov 25, 2009 22:15
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Egbert Souse posted:7 copies of The Third Man on Blu, 15 on DVD. And I thought I was bad buying two copies, isn't that a tiny bit excessive (unless your kidding). Anyways I only bought another copy of Third Man to sell later and gave my father a list of things to buy me for Christmas. I didn't have much to spend on this sale so I hope they have one again sometime between April and July next year.
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Nov 25, 2009 22:41
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Egbert Souse posted:It was hard to pass on...Spartacus again... but they're obvious picks for BluRay. Especially since we're probably getting the first two next year. Actually, Universal owns/controls the rights to Spartacus (just like Fear & Loathing In Las Vegas now)
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Nov 25, 2009 23:41
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SneakySneaks posted:And I thought I was bad buying two copies, isn't that a tiny bit excessive (unless your kidding). Anyways I only bought another copy of Third Man to sell later and gave my father a list of things to buy me for Christmas. I didn't have much to spend on this sale so I hope they have one again sometime between April and July next year. Not being serious! Even when I was making a bit on the side a few years ago by finding OOP/rare/exclusive stuff, I'd never buy more than one copy. The B&N I went to on Saturday was apparently wiped clean. I asked about The Third Man and the cashier said a lot of people were coming in just to get copies. Weird, since they still had a few Ran and Contempt. Sporadic posted:Actually, Universal owns/controls the rights to Spartacus (just like Fear & Loathing In Las Vegas now) Criterion has never taken any Universal DVDs out of print except for The Bank Dick, so it's always possible. They have issued BluRays of Sony and Fox films.
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Nov 26, 2009 01:50
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Egbert Souse posted:Criterion has never taken any Universal DVDs out of print except for The Bank Dick, so it's always possible. They have issued BluRays of Sony and Fox films. Not really. Spartacus was already released on HD-DVD, same with Fear & Loathing (which is coming later this year on Blu via Universal) It will get a Blu-Ray release but Criterion won't be behind it...which sucks because Spartacus desperately needs to be cleaned up.
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Nov 26, 2009 02:33
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Spartacus could use a new 8K digital restoration. The 1991 restoration had to resort to using color separations, which were recombined photochemically.
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Nov 26, 2009 03:00
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The only DVD I picked up was "Mishima: A Life in Four Chapters" I almost got Bottle Rocket, but then decided not to.
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Nov 26, 2009 05:17
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Macrame_God posted:I know that's a petty thing to consider, but seriously...Armond White. He's really good writing about older films he likes. Swear to god, even if it's just Criterion editing him harder than the NY Press.
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Nov 26, 2009 17:59
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I bought my parents the Monterey Pop collection blu-ray and drat if it's not one of the best concert films I've seen. There are a ton of outtakes which are great quality performances that didn't make the movie. If you're on the fence I would definitely recommend this one, especially for fans of 60's psychedelic rock music.
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Nov 27, 2009 23:54
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Jog posted:He's really good writing about older films he likes. Swear to god, even if it's just Criterion editing him harder than the NY Press. White usually has excellent taste, he's just likes to rile people up. Well, maybe excellent is an overstatement, but he's no worse than any other alt-paper critic. juan the owl fucked around with this message at 07:03 on Nov 28, 2009 |
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Nov 28, 2009 06:55
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DVDBeaver on the AK100 box Bottom line for those who don't want to read the whole thing: Sanshiro Sugata: damaged but the best transfer out there The Most Beautiful: damaged but the best transfer out there Sanshiro Sugata I: very damaged (worst of the box) but the best transfer out there The Men Who Tread on the Tiger's Tail: looks very good No Regrets for Our Youth: same as Eclipse release One Wonderful Sunday: same as Eclipse release Drunken Angel: compared to Criterion - NOT picture-boxed, a little darker, less damage Stray Dog: compared to Criterion - a little darker, a few more scratches Scandal: same as Eclipse release Rashomon: compared to Criterion - slightly more damage, but overall looks sharper and better The Idiot: same as Eclipse release Ikiru: same as Criterion release Seven Samurai: compared to Criterion - NOT picture-boxed, "may very well be the best of any of the DVDs I have seen" I Live in Fear: same as Eclipse release Throne of Blood: same as Criterion release The Lower Depths: almost identical to Criterion release The Hidden Fortress: compared to Criterion - slightly different subtitles, otherwise very close The Bad Sleep Well: same as Criterion release Yojimbo: same as Criterion release Sanjuro: same as Criterion release High and Low: may be sharper than the Criterion reissue Red Beard: same as Criterion release Dodes-kaden: compared to Criterion - NOT picture-boxed, otherwise the same Kagemusha: not as good as the Blu-Ray, but close. The best-looking DVD available. Madadayo: the best-looking DVD available Some of the upgrades, and of course the early films, are very tempting. Also the book looks nice. But I still can't justify buying this. I may never watch the extras again, but I like having them there. I'll just keep waiting for separate releases of the new titles, and Blu-Ray upgrades of the others.
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Nov 30, 2009 17:58
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Little bit of bad news or perhaps prognostication. I seems Universal, at least according to Digital Bits with the 11/30 post http://digitalbits.com/#mytwocents , will be releasing the BluRay for Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas. So no Criterion. (I sort of remember the movie getting an HD DVD release) Thats sad news for anyone waiting on buying the Criterion DVD in hopes they'd release a BluRay (with all the extras). Worst case scenario that means Criterion will lose the license and the DVD will go OOP. Of course I could just be  . Universal and Criterion do have a good relationship. Universal has licensed Criterion produced features before (like all those Scorsese commentaries)Some of those new transfers in the Kurosawa set look really nice, but no way am I double dipping. LaptopGun fucked around with this message at 05:12 on Dec 1, 2009 |
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Dec 1, 2009 05:04
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Does anyone know where I can get a replacement case similar to the clear plastic ones that Criteiron normally uses? My copy of Vengeance Is Mine came damaged. 
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Dec 1, 2009 17:17
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Macrame_God posted:Does anyone know where I can get a replacement case similar to the clear plastic ones that Criteiron normally uses? My copy of Vengeance Is Mine came damaged. Criterion will probably sell you one for a few bucks if you email them and ask nicely. Today is a good day. A Christmas Tale and Gimme Shelter.
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Dec 1, 2009 18:34
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doctor thodt posted:Today is a good day. A Christmas Tale and Gimme Shelter. Oh yeah! Gimme Shelter is out on BRD! 
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Dec 1, 2009 19:15
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LaptopGun posted:Little bit of bad news or perhaps prognostication. I seems Universal, at least according to Digital Bits with the 11/30 post http://digitalbits.com/#mytwocents , will be releasing the BluRay for Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas. So no Criterion. (I sort of remember the movie getting an HD DVD release) Thats sad news for anyone waiting on buying the Criterion DVD in hopes they'd release a BluRay (with all the extras). Worst case scenario that means Criterion will lose the license and the DVD will go OOP. Universal had their own DVD of Fear and Loathing out before the Criterion was released, so it's possible that a Criterion Bluray might also be down the road in a few years. The logic of that model is that Universal can make money off of their own release for a year or two and then license it to a third party when sales drop off. Anchor Bay has done the same thing in the past with titles like The Man who Fell to Earth. I don't know how big the difference in licensing costs is for Bluray compared to DVD, but wasn't Fear and Loathing Criterion's biggest seller on standard DVD? I imagine that they would want to release that again if possible.
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Dec 1, 2009 20:39
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Vertov. Hey, could be. I think everyone would be happy except for the people who bought Universal's release.vertov posted:I don't know how big the difference in licensing costs is for Bluray compared to DVD, but wasn't Fear and Loathing Criterion's biggest seller on standard DVD? I imagine that they would want to release that again if possible. I don't have any hard numbers, but it is easily the Criterion I've personally seen in people's houses or apartments or dorm rooms. Lots of anecdotal evidence has to count for something, right?
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Dec 2, 2009 07:39
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