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Happydayz posted:Just so you know, Peace Corps = (likely) never going to work in the intelligence community. Maybe that's not your thing, but you should think carefully before closing off an option. I thought it was the other way around? As in if you have worked in the intelligence community you can't work for PC?
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Dec 11, 2009 14:27
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You're right, Vilerat. IC --> PC is automatic ban, while PC --> IC involves a significant mandatory wait time (years) and other restrictions after entry on IC duty. Of course, State is not part of the IC (excepting INR), so no worries at all.
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Dec 11, 2009 14:34
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Business of Ferrets posted:You're right, Vilerat. IC --> PC is automatic ban, while PC --> IC involves a significant mandatory wait time (years) and other restrictions after entry on IC duty. I think it is 5 years after end of PC service.
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Dec 11, 2009 17:20
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Omits-Bagels posted:I think it is 5 years after end of PC service. Yea I just looked into it and according to the Peace Corps Thread, if you've worked in intelligence fields you're banned from the Peace Corps but not necessarily the other way around.
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Dec 11, 2009 20:36
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Moving away from the FSOT for a moment, curious how you and other FSOs tend to view members of the diplomatic corps. Any predominant stereotypes, trends in working relationships among like-mindeds, etc.? Asking as a non-US citizen.
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Dec 14, 2009 04:10
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Gyunei posted:Moving away from the FSOT for a moment, curious how you and other FSOs tend to view members of the diplomatic corps. Any predominant stereotypes, trends in working relationships among like-mindeds, etc.? Asking as a non-US citizen. I assume you are asking about relations with other countries' diplomats posted to the same city overseas. In my experience, much of the contact is relationship driven; I was much closer with an earlier Aussie counterpart than I am with his replacement. On the other hand, I have consistently maintained close relations with the Brits here. Some of this is job-driven -- we have comparable interests and sometimes shared agendas -- but the closeness in culture really is nice, too. Overall, I have been very impressed with my counterparts from other countries. Where I am, at least, Southeast Asian diplomats tend to be very impressive. The Indians and Pakistanis, too, turn out very good people. The Northern Europeans tend to be excellent but understaffed, and thus extremely busy. Some of my favorites are the Mexican diplomats I've met, all of whom are very polished. There are, of course, duds, and I have certainly left out some good folks, but my overall impression is quite positive. Due to the nature of the host government here, we all tend to feel like we largely have been cast into the same boat together, and that helps relations.
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Dec 14, 2009 05:52
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CherryCola, is your Urdu good enough to talk yourself through a Pakistani checkpoint?
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Dec 17, 2009 09:51
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Business of Ferrets posted:CherryCola, is your Urdu good enough to talk yourself through a Pakistani checkpoint? That's kind of lovely! Maybe if I quote some Urdu poetry at them they'll trust me.
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Dec 17, 2009 12:54
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Just received my score breakdown from the October exam: Job knowledge: 55.06 Biographic Information: 48.24 English Expression: 49.56 Total score: 152.86 I feel your pain Vilerat.
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Dec 18, 2009 19:33
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Hi guys- great thread, made for some good reading and quality links. I've gotten through 12 of the 16 pages, but have to get going so I thought I'd get my question out there. I just got back a few months ago from doing the Peace Corps in Cambodia. I'm really interested in working for State as a career, with a focus on East Asia. Right now, I'm waiting to hear back on applications to teach in Japan with JET or in South Korea with a Fulbright ETA grant, in the hopes of getting a solid grasp of either language and at least two years more experience living in East Asia. Here's my situation- I had been thinking, very tentatively for now, that after I get back from teaching for x number of years, I'd go back to school to get a MA. Top schools I'm considering are SAIS and SIPA, but obviously this is all really far off in the future... what I'd like to know is, just how beneficial is a masters in IR for the Foreign Service? I know you talked about people from all sorts of backgrounds, JDs, MBAs, etc, and how anyone who's bright enough can get in, but do you think a degree like that is a significant help? Will that help someone get the edge if they're trying to get into the Political cone? Again, I can't stress how much this is all just speculation at this point, but I wonder whether it would be wiser to try for the Foreign Service straight out of JET/Fulbright and not go for the MA, or whether that's something I'm going to want under my belt (especially since I was a run of the mill English/History major/minor when I went to Georgetown, not School of Foreign Service). Any thoughts or opinions in general on this tentative career path?
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Dec 20, 2009 11:56
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CronoGamer posted:Hi guys- great thread, made for some good reading and quality links. I've gotten through 12 of the 16 pages, but have to get going so I thought I'd get my question out there. You should probably go for Korea over Japan if you're interested in the Foreign Service, as State doesn't give any special language bonuses for Japanese. I think there's generic credit for working proficiency in any language, but you'd get the same points for your Khmer as you would Japanese (and they don't stack, you only get one language bonus), which are both way lower than what Korean speakers get. Obviously you've already got experience with this in the PC, but being an English teacher is probably the biggest obstacle you can give yourself living in country and trying to pick up the language, since you're obligated to use English at work all the time. You may want to look in to doing the MA first instead, and applying for something like the Boren Fellowship, a regular Fulbright grant, or something through your university/program for dedicated overseas study. You might also see if the Korean government (or any Korea-America friendship type organization) offers any scholarships for foreigners to go and study the language. I'm applying for something from the Chinese government for next year. You may just want to apply for the MA and the Foreign Service at the same time. It's a long, involved process and at worst you'd be out RT airfare to DC and a hotel room to take the Orals. Any grad program in IR that won't work with you for the FSO hiring process likely has some serious problems. Pompous Rhombus fucked around with this message at 14:15 on Dec 20, 2009 |
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Dec 20, 2009 14:12
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CronoGamer posted:I know you talked about people from all sorts of backgrounds, JDs, MBAs, etc, and how anyone who's bright enough can get in, but do you think a degree like that is a significant help? Will that help someone get the edge if they're trying to get into the Political cone? The Qualifications Evaluation Panel (QEP) seems to be the real sifter these days, and nobody is really sure what the QEP is looking for. As Pompous Rhombus said, it is safe to say that a good IR degree will not hurt you. On the other hand, don't confuse a means with the end. If getting into the FS is your priority, then start taking the test. You can do so every year it is offered (which should be every year for the foreseeable future) and there is no cost to you besides getting to the test site (the first test can be taken overseas, but the Oral Assessment is only offered in the States). Having an advanced degree will help you enter as a higher grade, which may or may not pay for the cost/opportunity cost of getting the degree. It is also safe to say that one or two years of policy work in the FS will close whatever knowledge gap someone without an advanced degree might initially feel when compared with a graduate of a top-flight MA program. CronoGamer posted:I'm really interested in working for State as a career, with a focus on East Asia. Right now, I'm waiting to hear back on applications to teach in Japan with JET or in South Korea with a Fulbright ETA grant, in the hopes of getting a solid grasp of either language and at least two years more experience living in East Asia. Rhombus' advice is good, especially if you are viewing language learning as a way to improve your chances of getting into the service. Until you take and pass the FSOT and FSOA, though, you won't know if you need the language boost or not. Unless you really want the (large) bump from Korean, I would encourage you to learn a language that interests you. If you're indifferent, or really into Korean (that food is amazing; I personally just can't get enough of it!), then go for it. Keep in mind that getting assigned to Seoul is a rough way to start in the Foreign Service because its low hardship differential and one-post language status basically mean that you get last choice for your second assignment (this only applies to the first and second tour; after that there is more flexibility). If you have a Japan fixation, you might want to spend time learning that language; it is exceedingly difficult to break into the Chrysanthemum Club (the FS Japan clique) unless you already know Japanese. So, just some things to think about.
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Dec 20, 2009 15:45
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Dattserberg posted:Just received my score breakdown from the October exam: I sent in the 30 bucks to get mine re-evaluated, will post what the response is.
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Dec 20, 2009 18:54
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Business of Ferrets posted:The Qualifications Evaluation Panel (QEP) seems to be the real sifter these days, and nobody is really sure what the QEP is looking for. As Pompous Rhombus said, it is safe to say that a good IR degree will not hurt you. On the other hand, don't confuse a means with the end. If getting into the FS is your priority, then start taking the test. You can do so every year it is offered (which should be every year for the foreseeable future) and there is no cost to you besides getting to the test site (the first test can be taken overseas, but the Oral Assessment is only offered in the States). Having an advanced degree will help you enter as a higher grade, which may or may not pay for the cost/opportunity cost of getting the degree. The idea wasn't an IR degree just for the sake of a better chance on getting into the FS. I'd like to have one so I'm more comfortable with the field and if I ultimately decide FS isn't for me, there are still a good number of other possibilities available; I worked for a foreign policy think tank over the summer and found it a fascinating experience, so something like that is always possible. quote:
Yeah- this is mostly how I was looking at it. I know Korean is a language already in demand, but Japan is the one that really interests me after I spent a few weeks there, and I've already been hacking away at the Rosetta Stone and Pimsleur programs and I like the language. Still very much a beginner, but if I get accepted into JET I'll be turning up the heat on that. quote:Keep in mind that getting assigned to Seoul is a rough way to start in the Foreign Service because its low hardship differential and one-post language status basically mean that you get last choice for your second assignment (this only applies to the first and second tour; after that there is more flexibility). If you have a Japan fixation, you might want to spend time learning that language; it is exceedingly difficult to break into the Chrysanthemum Club (the FS Japan clique) unless you already know Japanese. So, just some things to think about. This kind of advice is precisely why I posted. Thank you so much. My interest is East Asia in general, so while Northeast Asia is obviously the region where all the big action is happening (DPRK, U.S.-Japan alliance, everything China, etc.) and while ultimately I'd prefer to be focusing there later in my career, I think there's a lot going on with the Philippines, Singapore, Malaysia, ASEAN, etc. That was my focus at the think tank over the summer actually. Can you think of any SEA posts like Kuala Lumpur, Ho Chi Minh City, or Vientiane or something that are decent first post choices which provide a shot at a better 2nd post?
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Dec 20, 2009 21:10
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Business of Ferrets posted:it is exceedingly difficult to break into the Chrysanthemum Club (the FS Japan clique) unless you already know Japanese. So, just some things to think about. Could you elaborate? Is it difficult to get a posting in Japan without already speaking Japanese (prior to even starting FSI language training), or difficult to fit in with people once you get there if you don't speak Japanese? Does a similar situation also exist in China? My experience in both these countries has been that a foreigner able to hold their own in the local language has a common bond with other foreigners who also speak the language, that is very hard to explain to people that don't. Like smokers who gather together, or people appreciating an inside joke.
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Dec 21, 2009 00:45
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CronoGamer posted:=I just got back a few months ago from doing the Peace Corps in Cambodia. I'm really interested in working for State as a career, with a focus on East Asia. Right now, I'm waiting to hear back on applications to teach in Japan with JET or in South Korea with a Fulbright ETA grant, in the hopes of getting a solid grasp of either language and at least two years more experience living in East Asia. Go the Korean end if you can. Japanese is a great language, but the applications are fairly mundane. I speak it fairly well, and application wise, it's about as useful as Italian or German; which is to say the only reason to study it is if you really like the place and want to spend time there. Korean, on the other hand, is a language at the center of one of the remaining flash points. It is entirely possible that you could, at some point in your hypothetical foreign service career, end up with the chance to be one of the first FSOs to serve in North Korea if you speak Korean. And that good sir, would be a loving amazing thing.
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Dec 21, 2009 00:58
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xanthig posted:Could you elaborate? Is it difficult to get a posting in Japan without already speaking Japanese (prior to even starting FSI language training), or difficult to fit in with people once you get there if you don't speak Japanese? The difficulty comes in actually securing an assignment to Japan. Since all full-time training at State is tied to one's assignment, you have to "get the job" at either Embassy Tokyo or one of the consulates before you can be eligible for language training. At the same time, people who already speak the language can bid before their normal bidding cycle in order to compete with you for jobs. Japan jobs themselves are heavily bid -- usually several dozen bidders for each job -- both because of the quality of life there (hurray for the First World!) and because the work is interesting and relavant. The Japan club also really takes care of its own, so it winds up being the old saw about getting a job in general: you need experience to get the job, but you can't get experience without working the job first. Already knowing Japanese or, even better, being married to a Japanese, is a shortcut to that group and, all other things being equal, will make it easier (but not guaranteed) to find a job in Japan. Once you're known and liked inside the FS Japan world, though, you can quite easily spend repeat tours in the country. The current #2 in Tokyo is on his third or fourth tour there -- not a rare occurrance. xanthig posted:Does a similar situation also exist in China? To some extent it does, but China has a lot more less-desirable posts than Japan does, so it is easier to break into the China club. That said, China is just about the sexiest thing these days from a foreign affairs standpoint, and there has been an amazing increase in the past year or two in FSOs wanting to get China experience. So it is getting increasingly competitive to work in China. The FS China world is also very close knit, but not as cliquish as the Japan Hands.
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Dec 21, 2009 02:26
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CronoGamer posted:Can you think of any SEA posts like Kuala Lumpur, Ho Chi Minh City, or Vientiane or something that are decent first post choices which provide a shot at a better 2nd post? I think I might have mentioned it earlier in this thread in more detail, but bidding on one's first and second posts is kind of a special case, totally removed from subsequent bidding. First post is wide open (unless you took critical-needs language points, in which case you'll probably use that language) and when bidding the second post the assignments folks look at the hardship and danger differential for the first post and start giving people follow-on assignment based on how "bad" their first tour was. So pretty much any SEA post with a high differential will set you up well for a nice second-tour assignment, though you still would have to consider limits on language training for entry-level officers. There are literally pages and pages of rules for second-tour bidding.
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Dec 21, 2009 02:35
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Is there a chart or something about where different countries rank on the foreign service scale of danger or comfort or whatever? I'm kind of curious about India as far as how a tour there would affect the choices for ones next tour and how the FSO community is overall. Any idea if this kind of information is out there?
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Dec 21, 2009 04:12
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Ugghhh. It's ALL who you know and how you lobby. If you get post to want you then you are almost guaranteed to get the assignment. If bureau wants you in that position but post wants somebody else, somebody else will get that job and you'll be left with a rep who offers condolences and shrugged shoulders. The whole assignment system is really unbalanced and designed to encourage networking and handshakes.
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Dec 21, 2009 05:11
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Vilerat posted:Ugghhh. It's ALL who you know and how you lobby. If you get post to want you then you are almost guaranteed to get the assignment. If bureau wants you in that position but post wants somebody else, somebody else will get that job and you'll be left with a rep who offers condolences and shrugged shoulders. The whole assignment system is really unbalanced and designed to encourage networking and handshakes. I've been hearing a lot along these lines, both in this thread and ESPECIALLY from family and friends who have contact with folks in the FS. Is this internal politicking something that you find really affects your enjoyment of the job? An old boss told me that if you make a single enemy with a higher-up at an embassy- even someone who just take a dislike to you for no discernible reason- your chances of doing great things absolutely plummet since it's all based on recommendations and personal evaluations. He said the benefits of working an amazing job like FS were outweighed by all the kow-towing and bootlicking that was necessary. Do you know anyone who's had something like this happen to them? Would you say that's an accurate assessment or is it being unfair? Ultimately it doesn't worry me overmuch because I can get along just fine in a networking-heavy environment, but I'd like to know how much of his criticism is legitimate and how much is exaggerated.
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Dec 21, 2009 06:02
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How difficult is it to swing a posting in Afghanistan or Iraq? Is there some sort of perverse competition among junior officers for hardship postings so that they can get better postings later on?
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Dec 21, 2009 08:18
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CronoGamer posted:Yeah- this is mostly how I was looking at it. I know Korean is a language already in demand, but Japan is the one that really interests me after I spent a few weeks there, and I've already been hacking away at the Rosetta Stone and Pimsleur programs and I like the language. Still very much a beginner, but if I get accepted into JET I'll be turning up the heat on that. I'm going to echo the advice about teaching English while trying to study at the same time because that is precisely my situation nowadays. If you are teaching English as your job while studying a language like Korean, it is going to severely impede your progress unless you have some amazing discipline and a large amount of energy. I live in Seoul these days and teach English and try to study Korean at the same time. My job is my sole source of frustration these days because I feel like it interferes with my study of Korean. Business of Ferrets posted:Keep in mind that getting assigned to Seoul is a rough way to start in the Foreign Service because its low hardship differential and one-post language status basically mean that you get last choice for your second assignment (this only applies to the first and second tour; after that there is more flexibility). If you have a Japan fixation, you might want to spend time learning that language; it is exceedingly difficult to break into the Chrysanthemum Club (the FS Japan clique) unless you already know Japanese. So, just some things to think about. I am kind of curious if you speak critical needs language like Korean, does that almost guarantee you are going to get posted to a place where the language is spoken for your first post or are there other options available? As you pointed out that might not be an ideal way to start out (i.e. getting assigned to Seoul). Also is it an option to get advanced degrees while in the FS (from a U.S. school) or would the work kind of preclude you going to school? If so, can you go to school and come back or is that somewhat difficult?
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Dec 21, 2009 09:41
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BoF, do many/any FSOs do language learning on their own if they're gunning for a post they were turned down for, or do they all pretty much work within the State Department's system?madcow posted:I am kind of curious if you speak critical needs language like Korean, does that almost guarantee you are going to get posted to a place where the language is spoken for your first post or are there other options available? As you pointed out that might not be an ideal way to start out (i.e. getting assigned to Seoul). It does, it's part of the deal/contract you get for accepting the language bonus points in the application. You're guaranteed one tour there as a junior officer, and another later in your career.
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Dec 21, 2009 15:20
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CronoGamer posted:I've been hearing a lot along these lines, both in this thread and ESPECIALLY from family and friends who have contact with folks in the FS. If you're trying that hard to get people to like you, you're doing it wrong. It might get worse at the more senior levels. But at those levels you either know the right people or you don't. I consider myself a net beneficiary of the lobbying system. I have been lucky enough to work with some fantastic officers at all levels of the bureaucracy. At the same time, I have always bid realistically, so things have generally turned out well for me. I do know some people who seem frustrated because they really reached above their mentors' capability to deliver, but they really should have known better. In the FS I have had some OK bosses and some fantastic bosses. One really bad one, but he was definitely in the minority. I mention this just to note that one can work for some great people here, so it doesn't need to be a painful process. xanthig posted:How difficult is it to swing a posting in Afghanistan or Iraq? Is there some sort of perverse competition among junior officers for hardship postings so that they can get better postings later on? It depends on the job, but I wouldn't call it perverse. With only very few exceptions (usually for volunteers with prior military background, for example) junior officers do not get assigned to Iraq or Afghanistan. (This was not always the case, but management in the war zones realized fairly quickly that new diplomats are more of a liability than an asset when working in a fast-moving interagency environment; you really need to understand your own agency and its equities, or you will be steamrolled.) This past summer, there was intense competition for good jobs at Embassy Baghdad. Less-well-defined jobs out in the provinces with reconstruction teams were easier to get, but still filled up. Since 2003, State has filled all its positions in Iraq and Afghanistan with volunteers only, and I don't think that will change too soon. To answer your other question, some junior officers do seek a hardship tour first to get a good tour second, but my view is that at State one in the hand is worth two in the bush; better to do as well as you can each time, since there are no guarantees that things will work out the way you envision. madcow posted:I am kind of curious if you speak critical needs language like Korean, does that almost guarantee you are going to get posted to a place where the language is spoken for your first post or are there other options available? As you pointed out that might not be an ideal way to start out (i.e. getting assigned to Seoul). If you take the extra points (the big bump, not the normal points for any language) for a critical needs language, the assignments people will do their best to make sure you use that language during either your first or second tour. After that, it's up to you. Lots of people start out in Seoul. They get kind of screwed for their second tour, but do fine after that. You actually have far less control over your first two tours than you might think. I mean, Seoul might not even be on your list! madcow posted:Also is it an option to get advanced degrees while in the FS (from a U.S. school) or would the work kind of preclude you going to school? If so, can you go to school and come back or is that somewhat difficult? There are a few programs to earn one-year masters degrees in public policy, social work or military studies through private universities or the war colleges/command and staff colleges. Some of these programs are competitive (Princeton, the War College) and some less so (Army Command and Staff College; who really wants to spend a year at Fort Leavenworth?) These are all fully funded and the officer receives salary and benefits. Some people take a year of leave without pay to attend a one-year grad program on their own dime, but anything longer than that would probably require a resignation from the service. Getting back in is possible but unlikely, so it is not a popular move for most folks.
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Dec 21, 2009 15:22
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Pompous Rhombus posted:BoF, do many/any FSOs do language learning on their own if they're gunning for a post they were turned down for, or do they all pretty much work within the State Department's system? I know of a few people who have done this, but it is rare. Though it can help, simply speaking a language will not be enough to seal the deal if you don't know the right people. Conversely, if you know the right people, you don't need to know the language (as long as there is time to learn it). Most of the self-study I see is people improving language skills for their current post or getting ready/brushing up for their next (already assigned) post. Most people only formally study languages within the State system, which really is quite good.
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Dec 21, 2009 15:26
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So what exactly is the relationship between the FS and the intelligence community? Obviously the state department is not part of the intelligence community, but someone mentioned earlier that you should be careful about going into the peace corps because it would preclude you from working in intelligence. Is Foreign Service->intelligence a common career path then?
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Dec 25, 2009 09:01
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Baby Babbeh posted:So what exactly is the relationship between the FS and the intelligence community? Obviously the state department is not part of the intelligence community, but someone mentioned earlier that you should be careful about going into the peace corps because it would preclude you from working in intelligence. Is Foreign Service->intelligence a common career path then? http://www.state.gov/s/inr/ quote:INR is a member of the U.S. intelligence community.
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Dec 25, 2009 10:08
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The distinction here is that, within the State Department, only INR and it's employees are part of the Intelligence Community (IC). This is comparable to Treasury, the Department of Energy and some other agencies/departments that have intel shops, but are not themselves part of the IC. Another distinction is that State makes/shapes/recommends policy, while the IC is supposed to refrain from that.
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Dec 25, 2009 12:33
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Here is a really random question. I've been wanting to get my nose pierced (just a tasteful small diamond on one side) and my mom is convinced that no one will hire me, especially the state department, with such a horrible display of punkishness. Does anyone know what the policy is on things like piercings and tattoos in the foreign service?
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Dec 27, 2009 18:32
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How frequently are medical waivers issued? The Foreign Service website says they are rarely issued, and as a matter of common sense it seems unlikely that they'd consider issuing a waiver when there are plenty of candidates who can get a Class One medical clearance.
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Dec 28, 2009 00:36
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Glaukopis posted:How frequently are medical waivers issued? The Foreign Service website says they are rarely issued, and as a matter of common sense it seems unlikely that they'd consider issuing a waiver when there are plenty of candidates who can get a Class One medical clearance. In the past, getting anything but a Class One would disqualify you. I heard, though, that a recent class-action suit on the issue was ruled against the Department, so change could be in the works.
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Dec 28, 2009 14:18
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CherryCola posted:Here is a really random question. I've been wanting to get my nose pierced (just a tasteful small diamond on one side) and my mom is convinced that no one will hire me, especially the state department, with such a horrible display of punkishness. Does anyone know what the policy is on things like piercings and tattoos in the foreign service? Most of the FSOs I know do a good job hiding their piercings and body art. Is this an urge you can suppress until you get in?
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Dec 28, 2009 14:32
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Business of Ferrets posted:Most of the FSOs I know do a good job hiding their piercings and body art. Oh sure, if it would affect my chances negatively.
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Dec 28, 2009 16:31
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Glaukopis posted:How frequently are medical waivers issued? The Foreign Service website says they are rarely issued, and as a matter of common sense it seems unlikely that they'd consider issuing a waiver when there are plenty of candidates who can get a Class One medical clearance. I thought for sure I was going to be dqued, but, I got my class 1 and now I'm here in Central Africa...
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Dec 28, 2009 19:28
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CherryCola posted:Oh sure, if it would affect my chances negatively. Visible tattoos or body piercings will affect your chances negatively in any professional environment unless you work for one of those rare places.
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Dec 28, 2009 22:15
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TCD posted:What you can have for a class 1 and what the website says are two different things. Can I ask which condition you thought would disqualify you? The website FAQ states that type 1 diabetics are not likely to qualify for worldwide clearance, and it seems like a lot of work to go through if I'm medically ineligible.
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Dec 29, 2009 02:46
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Vilerat posted:Visible tattoos or body piercings will affect your chances negatively in any professional environment unless you work for one of those rare places. well that's what I was wondering. Is a piercing like that still considered an extreme "body piercing." Maybe it's from all my time in South Asia, but I had been thinking that a small diamond on the side of the nose was not really that big of a deal anymore since pretty much every woman has one.. Anyway, this is kind of a weird tangent, but it's good to know what the expectations are. edit: I'm a giiiiiiirl by the way. CherryCola fucked around with this message at 05:45 on Dec 29, 2009 |
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Dec 29, 2009 05:00
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I wouldn't get a visible tattoo or body piercing as a male. The federal government is a conservative place in general. Not politically per se, but in behavior. Here's a good article in the Washington Post about visible tattoos in the workplace specific to DC: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/09/AR2009120904631.html?sid=ST2009120904794 quote:In D.C. area, workers find tattoos are taboo from 9 to 5 Note: this is just in DC in the private sector. Not even in conservative work environment like State or DoD
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Dec 29, 2009 05:39
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| # ? May 6, 2024 19:46 |
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CherryCola posted:I had been thinking that a small diamond on the side of the nose was not really that big of a deal anymore since pretty much every woman has one.. Thinking about it, I can't remember seeing any girls(or guys) who had a nose piercing. No non-standard piercings, no visible tattoos seems to be the SOP.
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Dec 29, 2009 07:01
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