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Bearnt! posted:What was the original plan for Lesnar/Goldberg before everything went to poo poo? I could probably leave my question at that but I won't. They had their quick stare down tease at Survivor Series, followed by Lesnar F5'ing Goldberg during the Rumble causing him to be eliminated. Lesnar then drops the title to Eddie at No Way Out when Goldberg takes Stone Cold's advice and interferes. Was Lesnar confirmed as leaving at this point hence the title drop? After this it gets hazy for me. Did they realize a deal wasn't going to be worked out with Goldberg to renew his contact and then to make things worse Brock decided to leave on top of that? So they kind of just said gently caress it and got Stone Cold involved to send them off in front of a hot crowd who knew they were both leaving the company? From what I recall, they must have known about Goldberg leaving, and got Austin involved, so that they could get an Austin / Goldberg "moment", before the contract expired, and they'd forever lose the closest thing they ever had to the "Monday Night Wars Dream Match". I don't think anybody knew about Brock until after Austin had already been attached to the match. They could easily have just pulled the match, or changed booking, to have Lesnar and Goldberg put new guys over on their way out of the door, but Austin being involved in the match was probably too much of an investment to lose. As I remember it, we only heard about Brock leaving between the final RAW, and the PPV.
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Jan 11, 2010 22:43
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Bearnt! posted:What was the original plan for Lesnar/Goldberg before everything went to poo poo? I could probably leave my question at that but I won't. They had their quick stare down tease at Survivor Series, followed by Lesnar F5'ing Goldberg during the Rumble causing him to be eliminated. Lesnar then drops the title to Eddie at No Way Out when Goldberg takes Stone Cold's advice and interferes. Was Lesnar confirmed as leaving at this point hence the title drop? After this it gets hazy for me. Did they realize a deal wasn't going to be worked out with Goldberg to renew his contact and then to make things worse Brock decided to leave on top of that? So they kind of just said gently caress it and got Stone Cold involved to send them off in front of a hot crowd who knew they were both leaving the company? Once it was clear that they were BOTH leaving, the "time honored tradition" no longer applied so i guess they just put the face over (or perhaps they felt more betrayed by the way Brock left).
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Jan 11, 2010 22:47
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Shitty_Wok posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXBnEabG43s At least tell me Booker said what he should've said after that.
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Jan 11, 2010 23:46
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Minidust posted:Once it was clear that they were BOTH leaving, the "time honored tradition" no longer applied so i guess they just put the face over (or perhaps they felt more betrayed by the way Brock left). That's pretty much what I assumed since Brock hit them out of nowhere with it where at least with Goldberg they knew what was coming. Had Brock waited til after Wrestlemania to announce his departure I think he most likely would've gone over.
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Jan 11, 2010 23:59
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Bearnt! posted:Speaking of racism I was watching Wrestlemania 4 last night due to boredom and during the Demolition/Strike Force tag team championship match Ventura was really letting Tito Santana have it. "I'll bet that Chico Santana wishes he was back in Tijuana selling tacos again, Gorilla!" This was in 1987, amazing the poo poo they got away with and there's probably worse than this example. Heeling it up is one thing but come on. If it makes you feel any better think of 87 as a halfway point between Mad Men and black president:
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Jan 12, 2010 00:41
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CM Junk posted:At least tell me Booker said what he should've said after that. Do you want me to tell you that he said tell me he didn't just say that?
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Jan 12, 2010 00:47
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KungFu Grip posted:Do you want me to tell you that he said tell me he didn't just say that?  So I'm going to a wrestling show in Portland (Oregon) on satarday. Any other goons gonna be there?
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Jan 12, 2010 00:53
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KungFu Grip posted:Do you want me to tell you that he said tell me he didn't just say that? What?
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Jan 12, 2010 01:01
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All this talk about Foley makes me think: Was Foley what one would consider a "glorified jobber" (at least in WWE)? I started watching wrestling at the twilight of Foley's career shortly before his "retirement" match with Triple H in 2000, but it seems like all he did was get the poo poo kicked out of him and lose his match. Big matches that come to mind are KOR 98 against Undertaker, the I quit match at Royal Rumble 99, Royal Rumble 2000, and retirement at No Way Out 2000. His win as Mankind in the "butts in seat" match seems to be a small token of appreciation for his work and dedication,and then he loses the belt in less than a month. I could be totally wrong, but since my knowledge on Foley is low, I want to know about some major matches that Foley actually won. Also, from wikipedia article on No Way Out 2000: quote:After Jack stood up again, Triple H tucked Jack's head between his knees and jumped up to slam his head into the mat, a move Triple H calls a Pedigree. Reading that felt really wrong to me.
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Jan 12, 2010 01:03
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CM Junk posted:What? Tell Me He Didn't Just Say That! That is what he said.
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Jan 12, 2010 01:05
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crankdatbatman posted:All this talk about Foley makes me think: Was Foley what one would consider a "glorified jobber" (at least in WWE)? I started watching wrestling at the twilight of Foley's career shortly before his "retirement" match with Triple H in 2000, but it seems like all he did was get the poo poo kicked out of him and lose his match. Big matches that come to mind are KOR 98 against Undertaker, the I quit match at Royal Rumble 99, Royal Rumble 2000, and retirement at No Way Out 2000. His win as Mankind in the "butts in seat" match seems to be a small token of appreciation for his work and dedication,and then he loses the belt in less than a month. It was actually the next night on Raw, so.. less than a month is an understatement. He never held the belt longer than a week, possibly barely over 24 hours. Mick Foley won a lot of matches leading into PPVs, to make him look credible, then he'd lose at the PPV in a fantastic fashion (therefore, getting both guys over). It's what he excels at. He doesn't need to win to look good. Well, back then. Nowadays I refuse to think about his career.
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Jan 12, 2010 01:07
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Captain Misc. posted:
poo poo, maybe.
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Jan 12, 2010 01:12
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crankdatbatman posted:All this talk about Foley makes me think: Was Foley what one would consider a "glorified jobber" (at least in WWE)? I started watching wrestling at the twilight of Foley's career shortly before his "retirement" match with Triple H in 2000, but it seems like all he did was get the poo poo kicked out of him and lose his match. Big matches that come to mind are KOR 98 against Undertaker, the I quit match at Royal Rumble 99, Royal Rumble 2000, and retirement at No Way Out 2000. His win as Mankind in the "butts in seat" match seems to be a small token of appreciation for his work and dedication,and then he loses the belt in less than a month. Foley definitely spent a lot of time looking up at the lights, but that's part of why he was so well-regarded: Up until 1999 or so, when his body just started falling completely apart due to taking Nestea Plunges on concrete for so many goddamn years, he was usually able to make his opponents look like a million bucks. As Cactus Jack, he had very good runs in both WCW and ECW (great program with Sting in WCW, and he had a feud with Mikey Whipwreck that involved a Leonard Cohen LP), though he was derailed by Flair's booking in WCW. He was never a five-star worker, and he never really needed to be. His charisma and connection with the fans, in all three promotions plus Japan, was what he needed. poo poo, outside of Hogan and Funk, didn't he become one of the most popular American wrestlers in Japan? His Mind Games match with Michaels is excellent, too. Hardcore match with Edge at WrestleMania 22 and with Orton at Backlash '04 for the IC belt were very, very good. Timby fucked around with this message at 01:17 on Jan 12, 2010 |
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Jan 12, 2010 01:15
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PsiKoTicK posted:It was actually the next night on Raw, so.. less than a month is an understatement. He never held the belt longer than a week, possibly barely over 24 hours. Well to be fair he won his first title December 29th, 1998 which is recognized as actually starting on January 4th, 1999 as it was a taped Raw. Then lost it January 24th, 1999 at the Royal Rumble to the Rock in a "I Quit" match, so almost 3 weeks!
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Jan 12, 2010 01:15
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Timby posted:Foley definitely spent a lot of time looking up at the lights, but that's part of why he was so well-regarded: Up until 1999 or so, when his body just started falling completely apart, he was usually able to make his opponents look like a million bucks. As Cactus Jack, he had very good runs in both WCW and ECW (great program with Sting in WCW, and he had a feud with Mikey Whipwreck that involved a Leonard Cohen LP), though he was derailed by Flair's booking in WCW. Oh I'm not arguing that he wasn't great at putting his opponents over. I'm just looking for big matches that his characters actually "won". Also I just realized that Foley had two title reigns in early 99. Winning it in the "butts in seat" match and at Halftime Heat. Kinda sucks he never won it on a PPV.
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Jan 12, 2010 01:19
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Timby posted:his body just started falling completely apart due to taking Nestea Plunges on concrete for so many goddamn years Question: Is there a reason he called it the Nestea Plunge?
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Jan 12, 2010 01:21
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crankdatbatman posted:Oh I'm not arguing that he wasn't great at putting his opponents over. I'm just looking for big matches that his characters actually "won". He did pin Austin in the triple threat with HHH, him and Austin at a PPV (Summerslam, I think?) - the one with Jesse Ventura as guest ref. He lost it the next night because Austin didn't want to lose the belt to Triple H for reasons I won't go into, but it did mean that Foley got a PPV title win. He also got to main event a Wrestlemania (let's ignore it was one of the worst Wrestlemania main events ever!) so that's nice 
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Jan 12, 2010 01:22
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Yeah, he won the triple threat at SummerSlam '99.Von Dozier posted:Question: Is there a reason he called it the Nestea Plunge? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3Dtzfed5Kw&feature=related
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Jan 12, 2010 01:24
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Bearnt! posted:Well to be fair he won his first title December 29th, 1998 which is recognized as actually starting on January 4th, 1999 as it was a taped Raw. Then lost it January 24th, 1999 at the Royal Rumble to the Rock in a "I Quit" match, so almost 3 weeks! And then he won it from the Rock two days later and held it for 3 more weeks.
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Jan 12, 2010 01:25
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Jerusalem posted:He did pin Austin in the triple threat with HHH, him and Austin at a PPV (Summerslam, I think?) - the one with Jesse Ventura as guest ref. He lost it the next night because Austin didn't want to lose the belt to Triple H for reasons I won't go into, but it did mean that Foley got a PPV title win. He also got to main event a Wrestlemania (let's ignore it was one of the worst Wrestlemania main events ever!) so that's nice WM 16 (2000)? Also what were the reasons why Austin wouldn't job? I saw it on wikipedia too.
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Jan 12, 2010 01:29
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crankdatbatman posted:WM 16 (2000)? Also what were the reasons why Austin wouldn't job? I saw it on wikipedia too. Austin and Triple H pretty much hated each other at that point (much of the heat coming from Austin, who was resenting Trips' rocket push after his WrestleMania 15 heel turn), and Austin was in his "complete dick" phase, so he absolutely refused to be pinned by Triple H. (In fact, I'm pretty sure that the match was originally a singles match until Austin threw his tantrum, so Foley got tossed in because he had nothing to do on the PPV.)
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Jan 12, 2010 01:31
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I thought Wrestlemania 2000 was the 4 way main event with a McMahon in each corner.
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Jan 12, 2010 01:33
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Timby posted:Austin and Triple H pretty much hated each other at that point, and Austin was in his "complete dick" phase, so he absolutely refused to be pinned by Triple H. (In fact, I'm pretty sure that the match was originally simply a singles match until he threw his tantrum, so Foley got tossed in because he had nothing to do on the PPV.) In addition to this, I think this was also another of those situations where Austin thought they were jumping the gun and that Triple H wasn't "ready" yet to beat him for the belt. I do recall thinking myself (and seeing that opinion was pretty prevalent a few years later by stuff I read was said online at the time) that Triple H really WASN'T ready to be a top guy and beat Austin. So they compromised by having Foley beat Austin and then Triple H beat Foley, and of course after that Foley MADE Triple H into an absolute undisputed top level super-heel champion with their excellent feud/matches, followed up by the fantastic Rock/Triple H feud... by which point Austin returned and feuded with Triple H which rolled on into the excellent Two Man Power Trip.... and I'm still upset to this day that his quad injury put an end to that awesome team. Hockles posted:I thought Wrestlemania 2000 was the 4 way main event with a McMahon in each corner. Yes it was, and it was pretty loving bad (though it would probably be remembered very fondly if Rock had won the match).
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Jan 12, 2010 01:36
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Hockles posted:I thought Wrestlemania 2000 was the 4 way main event with a McMahon in each corner. It was. Austin missed Wrestlemania 2000 after being run over by a car at Survivor Series but in realty still needed neck surgery since Owen Hart broke his neck.
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Jan 12, 2010 01:40
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Bearnt! posted:It was. Austin missed Wrestlemania 2000 after being run over by a car at Survivor Series but in realty still needed neck surgery since Owen Hart broke his neck. Owen was ruining his career from beyond the grave! 
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Jan 12, 2010 01:44
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Timby posted:Austin and Triple H pretty much hated each other at that point (much of the heat coming from Austin, who was resenting Trips' rocket push after his WrestleMania 15 heel turn) I don't think Austin hated HHH; just the way HHH got his push. Seeing a guy get a disproportionate push because of who he knew rather than what he'd done probably brought back very unkind memories of Austin's WCW run, but I never recall Austin having an issue with HHH specifically.
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Jan 12, 2010 01:50
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Free Market Gravy posted:I don't think Austin hated HHH; just the way HHH got his push. Seeing a guy get a disproportionate push because of who he knew rather than what he'd done I thought HHH and Steph didn't get it on until later in '99 / early 2000.
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Jan 12, 2010 01:57
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Timby posted:I thought HHH and Steph didn't get it on until later in '99 / early 2000. Ask seventeen people when that friendship first blossomed and you'll get seventeen different answers (plus, people forget that they didn't have to be dating for Steph to be pulling a string or two for him). Regardless, HHH and HBK were gettin' it on in 1996.
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Jan 12, 2010 01:59
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A lot of people also forget that Triple H, as the "junior" member of the Kliq, was the one who took the lion's share of the punishment for the MSG Incident.
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Jan 12, 2010 02:10
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Jerusalem posted:A lot of people also forget that Triple H, as the "junior" member of the Kliq, was the one who took the lion's share of the punishment for the MSG Incident. If by lion's share you mean "all". That title reign of doom he had in the early 2000's would've happened in 98-99 if it weren't for that. Which leads to this question, where do Triple H's pre-Stephanie relationships with Vince and the Kliq come from? Was he just childhood buds with Nash, Hall, and Michaels or something?
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Jan 12, 2010 02:15
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Jerusalem posted:A lot of people also forget that Triple H, as the "junior" member of the Kliq, was the one who took the lion's share of the punishment for the MSG Incident. And people never get over things like that in wrestling, which is why Kevin Nash was never rehired by the WWE, Shawn Michaels was pretty much permanently blackballed, Triple H never got out of the lower card...
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Jan 12, 2010 02:19
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crankdatbatman posted:
I'm pretty sure it's on record he literally went up to them on his first day and said, "You guys have all the power around here. I'll do whatever you want." He then basically became their bitch, carried their bags, designated driver for the Kliq's soma binges, etc.
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Jan 12, 2010 02:19
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crankdatbatman posted:All this talk about Foley makes me think: Was Foley what one would consider a "glorified jobber" (at least in WWE)? He became that by the end, yes. When he first debut' though he was built up as a monster heel who loved pain and would fight Undertaker in boiler rooms, and his promos were just psychotic ramblings and him pulling his own hair out. Eventually when he introduced more of his personality, he became a giant jobber. The Rock by himself had two seperate returns where his main reason was to save Mick Foley from getting his rear end kicked - one was against Evolution but the other was against.. La Resistance.
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Jan 12, 2010 02:37
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Captain Misc. posted:
Brandon Gatson rules.
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Jan 12, 2010 05:29
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Supreme Allah posted:He became that by the end, yes. When he first debut' though he was built up as a monster heel who loved pain and would fight Undertaker in boiler rooms, and his promos were just psychotic ramblings and him pulling his own hair out. Eventually when he introduced more of his personality, he became a giant jobber. The Rock by himself had two seperate returns where his main reason was to save Mick Foley from getting his rear end kicked - one was against Evolution but the other was against.. La Resistance.
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Jan 12, 2010 05:59
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I wish Foley had gone out in a huge blaze of glory feud with Taker instead of HHH. I mean hell, the hell in a cell match "retired" him, he shoulda just had it with Taker. And I know his whole deal was making HHH into a top star, but Mick and Taker are like peanut butter and jelly. Although perhaps the WWF knew any match between them again would never live up to KOTR 98.
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Jan 12, 2010 06:08
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oldpainless posted:I wish Foley had gone out in a huge blaze of glory feud with Taker instead of HHH. I mean hell, the hell in a cell match "retired" him, he shoulda just had it with Taker. And I know his whole deal was making HHH into a top star, but Mick and Taker are like peanut butter and jelly. Although perhaps the WWF knew any match between them again would never live up to KOTR 98. Plus Undertaker was out injured from September of 99 until May of 2000.
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Jan 12, 2010 08:31
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Captain Misc. posted:
A lot of SCP guys have gone up there to work. Seems as though Locura is making an appearance. RockNES monsters are booked I see. Should be a good show!
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Jan 12, 2010 10:35
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Jerusalem posted:Yes it was, and it was pretty loving bad (though it would probably be remembered very fondly if Rock had won the match). I'm p sure it's remembered very fondly by Triple H. The match that made his Wrestlemania memories go from losing against Kane to being a racist heel who could pin a black face in a main event.
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Jan 12, 2010 15:33
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Jerusalem posted:the excellent Two Man Power Trip.... and I'm still upset to this day that his quad injury put an end to that awesome team. I usually am too until I realize that would have meant HHH would have been involved in the Invasion, right as his backstage power trip was just beginning. Can you IMAGINE that poo poo? I mean Undertaker and Kane were complete loving children about the WCW guys, but I think it'd be on a whole other level. Also it's probably for the best that Foley didn't go out vs. Undertaker. Undertaker's matches in 99 were pretty bad, and they were REALLY BAD after he got back until late 2002-ish.
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Jan 12, 2010 15:43
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