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Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005

Clapping Larry

Scalding Coffee posted:

Set your gun to burst mode.
I do caravan runs and hope the escorts take the damage. It does take some time but you get a lot of stuff.
Another dumb Fallout question...

I've been going the whole game selling off excess guns, armor, ammo, and whatever else...except as far as I can tell, I don't actually get any caps back for them? Huh? Is the only way to "sell" things in this game when they are used for barter? That loving sucks, because that means I've effectively trashed dozens of really expensive things. If it's limited to what caps the merchant has on hand, why doesn't the game block sales that are more than they can give back to me? I guess it's my fault for having a JRPG mentality and assuming that buying/selling things would work more simply like they would in those games.

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Bloodcider
Jun 19, 2009
Speaking from playing Fallout 2 here, I figure it's the same;

You trade items. You put your stuff on your side of the table, you put their stuff of equal value on the other side of the table (be it items, or gold), and you trade them. It's entirely possible to give away all your stuff for free if you didn't actually barter them for anything.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005

Clapping Larry
Well that's definitely something I wish I had known before playing it for the first time :smith:

Really, I should have noticed sooner that my caps weren't going up, bloody hell. At least I have plenty of ammo and stimpacks for now so I guess I can still continue the game, and it's not like the Experience gained fighting all those random mooks is lost.

Astfgl
Aug 31, 2001

If you're playing Fallout 2, put a few points in pickpockets and you won't need to worry about bartering again.

Truspeaker
Jan 28, 2009

Astfgl posted:

If you're playing Fallout 2, put a few points in pickpockets and you won't need to worry about bartering again.

Or find out what the quicksave/quickload buttons are. Yea, its cheating, but if you are caught stealing that whole town will never forgive you, so screw it.

ryan8723
May 18, 2004

Trust me, I read it on TexAgs.

Bloodcider posted:

And once you have Apotheosis, hop on over to Vindasel, stand on the broken pillar and blast Umbra a few times, then claim pretty much the best sword with 0 weight and a full set of ebony armor.

Once you have Umbra, you can complete the Sins of the Father Quest at Chorrol and give the sword you get in the quest back to the people of Chorrol to get the best shield in the game, The Escutcheon of Chorrol (33% reflect damage). Umbra and the Escutcheon of Chorrol more or less break the game when used together though because you are nigh-unkillable in melee and enemies will kill themselves just by hitting you while you slice away with the hardest hitting sword in the game.

If you have any decent amount of resist magic enchantments (meaning at least 20% or so) when combined with the above, you will be very difficult to kill.

Resist magic when combined with reflect damage will make you into a GOD in this game.

Happy Bear Suit
Jul 21, 2004

Truspeaker posted:

Or find out what the quicksave/quickload buttons are. Yea, its cheating, but if you are caught stealing that whole town will never forgive you, so screw it.
This one time in the first city in Fallout 2 I meant to click on a guy to talk to him but instead clicked like 0.005 mm to his left and stole a piece of beef jerky off his counter.

Him and the entire population of the city decided right then and there I needed to die. Even the children were throwing rocks at me. All over a piece of beef loving jerky.

So yeah save + reload all the time or you'll have no choice but to murder the entire village and lock yourself out of a bunch of quests.

Danger - Octopus!
Apr 20, 2008


Nap Ghost
I've just started playing Mass Effect. Do I actually need to give lots of orders to the rest of my party or do they have good enough AI to help in combat on their own?

Polite Tim
Sep 3, 2007
'insert witty Family Guy/ Futurama/ Simpsons/ Little fucking Britian etc quote here'

Danger - Octopus! posted:

I've just started playing Mass Effect. Do I actually need to give lots of orders to the rest of my party or do they have good enough AI to help in combat on their own?

Yeah, basically just leave them to their own devices, only thing you really need to watch out for is what weapon they are using, the powers generally get used quite well

Mode 7
Jul 28, 2007

Is it worth playing through all of the Megaman Battle Network series in order or are there ones I should skip or just one I should play etc etc. I am a fairly big Megaman fan if this helps. And having worked out which ones I should play, what should I know before I start?

Draile
May 6, 2004

forlorn llama

ryan8723 posted:

Once you have Umbra, you can complete the Sins of the Father Quest at Chorrol and give the sword you get in the quest back to the people of Chorrol to get the best shield in the game, The Escutcheon of Chorrol (33% reflect damage).

Like most of Oblivion's quest rewards, the Escutcheon of Chorrol scales to your level when you get it. If you get it early, it will have a defense rating and enchantment that really shows its age toward the end of the game. The longer you wait to complete the quest, the better the defense and enchantment on the shield will be: http://uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Escutcheon_of_Chorrol#Leveled_Statistics

Quest rewards that scale to your level is another reason why Oblivion is a weaker game than Morrowind. Do enough quests quickly enough and you'll have a huge pile of the game's "artifacts" that are useless later on.

Astfgl
Aug 31, 2001

Draile posted:

Quest rewards that scale to your level is another reason why Oblivion is a weaker game than Morrowind. Do enough quests quickly enough and you'll have a huge pile of the game's "artifacts" that are useless later on.

Yep, making this page pretty much a must-read:

http://uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Quest_Timing

It pulls out all the quests that provide non-leveled rewards, and indicates which quests will become so difficult at higher levels that they'll be tricky to complete.

Cart
Sep 28, 2004

They see me rollin...

Intel&Sebastian posted:

1) I think it'd be more help to get more specific about the builds, people just starting out aren't going to understand those.

2) I wouldn't say the shield is particularly hard to use. It's difficult to get a good kill/death ratio and takes a completely different approach to how you're playing, but as long as you understand you're just a distraction and a bullet sponge it's easy to start helping your team out as a shield guy.

I guess here's my shield tips for first timers

- Obviously you'll want to tailor your perks towards movement and/or melee
- Stare directly at whoever is shooting at you
- Crouch to cover your feet
- You're still going to die so focus on being a pointman for groups of people and drawing fire instead of running around trying to shield bash people
- The shield protects your back when you've got your secondary weapon out.

Really the biggest help you can give your team as a shield person is exposing enemies by having them shoot at you and tying up/distracting enemies who end up right in front of you and have to spend time figuring out what they're going to do to kill you. Really at this point in time most people have a go-to strategy when they end up face to face with a shield guy, but on the plus side most of them are going to assume you're about to charge at them.

When used correctly the shield's an awesome tool, I regularly finish towards the top of the team with it. It's hard to maintain a really high K:D ratio and you'll likely get a ton of assists, but here's the build I like to play:

Shield
Dual Rafficas
Stun Grenades / Semtex
Perk 1: Scavenger
Perk 2: Danger Close
Perk 3: Commando

Danger Close is absolutely key to this build. Basically, you run around as usual, and when you get near the action or get jumped you launch a stun grenade into the mix followed quickly by your Semtex. The increased blast radius will take out whoever you just stunned and is trying to get away from the grenade. Pick up fresh supplies off the corpse with Scavenger, then rinse, repeat. You'll get 90% of your kills with either the Semtex or just shield bashing up close.

Oodles of fun.

Rirse
May 7, 2006

by R. Guyovich
What's some tips on King's Bounty: The Legend? Never played a Heroes of Might and Magic game before.

Jokymi
Jan 31, 2003

Sweet Sassy Molassy

Polite Tim posted:

Yeah, basically just leave them to their own devices, only thing you really need to watch out for is what weapon they are using, the powers generally get used quite well
Just make sure to change squad abilities from passive to active in the options menu, otherwise they won't use any abilities until you tell them to.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

🥄Mah spoon is too big!🍌
I'm about to start playing Red Faction Guerilla, and I seem to recall hearing that for some reason some of the difficulty levels are poorly implemented. Any truth to this?

Palleon
Aug 11, 2003

I've got a hot deal on a bridge to the Pegasus Galaxy!
Grimey Drawer

Breetai posted:

I'm about to start playing Red Faction Guerilla, and I seem to recall hearing that for some reason some of the difficulty levels are poorly implemented. Any truth to this?

I was fine on the normal difficulty until the final mission, where I had to turn it down to easy, because it was gently caress you impossible. There are a few other missions like that too here and there, that I got through, but the game just has some weird difficulty spikes where the difficulty is going to triple out of nowhere and it's just not fun.

Otherwise, fantastic game.

Mercedes
Mar 7, 2006

"So you Jesus?"

"And you black?"

"Nigga prove it!"

And so Black Jesus turned water into a bucket of chicken. And He saw that it was good.




I just picked up Borderlands for the 360 this weekend. Any quick info I should know?

Morpheus
Apr 18, 2008

My favourite little monsters

MY FANTASYS.zip posted:

What's some tips on King's Bounty: The Legend? Never played a Heroes of Might and Magic game before.

Basically you're going to want to keep your armies at maximum capacity as often as you can. The game is essentially about minimizing losses to your troops. Save before every battle, because you don't always know if "Strong" enemies means you can beat them or if they'll pull out some bullshit abilities that destroy you.

I'm sure this is noted in the instruction book, but sometimes I get lazy and don't read it so you might want to know: your leadership score determines how much of a single type of troop you can put in one army slot, not how many troops in total you can have in your entire army.

Carbohydrates
Nov 22, 2006

Listen, Mr. Kansas Law Dog.
Law don't go around here.
Savvy?

Breetai posted:

I'm about to start playing Red Faction Guerilla, and I seem to recall hearing that for some reason some of the difficulty levels are poorly implemented. Any truth to this?
It just has really random difficulty spikes. The final mission and a few odd ones around the middle are really punishing. Just remember that you can swap the difficulty mid-game, and for the really hard missions, the game likes to hide top-notch vehicles around for you to use if you go looking for them.

A Real Happy Camper
Dec 11, 2007

These children have taught me how to believe.

Mercedes posted:

I just picked up Borderlands for the 360 this weekend. Any quick info I should know?

Don't discount an elemental weapon because it does less base damage. The elemental modifier adds to that.

Yes, you're going to find a weapon you are going to use for 90% of the game. I am at level 50 and still using a SMG I found at level 20.

Do co-op with someone if possible, but make sure they're not dicks who will steal all the drops.

The game is piss-easy on playthrough 1, and starts getting more difficult on playthrough 2 and 2.5.

Edit: also, respecs are cheap and have almost no penalty, feel free to experiment with skills. You are also not locked in to what weapons your class is supposed to use. I have a berserker that runs around with SMGs and revolvers.

OxMan
May 13, 2006

COME SEE
GRAVE DIGGER
LIVE AT MONSTER TRUCK JAM 2KXX



Any combat tips for Dragon Age on the CONSOLE? AOE spells seem absolutely useless as they hurt my melee guys attacking the enemies I'm trying to cast them on more than the enemies themselves, and attempting to position anyone is an exercise in futility. How am I supposed to do this? I tried telling everyone to stay in the same spot, then move people individually where I wanted them but this took so long that the enemies would be repositioned near the Wynne again by the time I finished moving Alistair, Morrigan, and myself. Combined with laying traps which, as a rogue (and as the game is pretty drat challenging), is pretty much required for any sort of non-cannon fodder fight, I find myself either dying repeatedly on an encounter until I get lucky enough to cheese it, or find each little fight taking 5-10 minutes due to all the micromanagement. The ghetto gambit system seems to be nigh useless on anything but their default settings.

Secondly, I've played a ton of WRPGs and CRPGs and I still can't quite figure out what kind of equipment each class does well with. Should I focus on spellpower boosting no armor stuff for mages, or should I outfit them in light armor that gives them some protection that gives bonuses to stats?

I'm currently fighting Sloth inside the Fade and by the time I reach his true form after the 4 shapeshifts my party's just tuckered out and I can't keep up with healing everyone.

Gwyrgyn Blood
Dec 17, 2002

MY FANTASYS.zip posted:

What's some tips on King's Bounty: The Legend? Never played a Heroes of Might and Magic game before.

Hit the Alt key in battle to turn on the advanced info, which is very useful. Also make sure you turn up the combat speed to Fast in the options.

Pay attention to everything while you play, there's a ton of things just laying around on the map you can use or grab. You'll want to grab the Scouting skill up to Level 2 as quickly as possible. On that note, ALWAYS right click enemy groups before you fight them to get a feel for their challenge level and what kinds of units they have.

Remember that there are limited resources in the game. Enemy groups don't respawn and neither does gold/treasure/etc. So be careful not to get wrecked, you can end up getting stuck if you run out of gold and units completely. You'll probably end up doing a lot of sneaking around and avoiding really hard fights so you can grab treasure and get to easier fights.

You'll want to get the Reserves skill as fast as possible too, it will give you two extra slots to store extra troops in.

You'll also want to look carefully at the unit stats and abilities because every unit has some useful traits, and many have very useful abilities as well. Same goes for spells, most of them are useful in one way or another.


But really, just do the tutorial and think before you act and you should be able to figure it all out as you go.

Morpheus
Apr 18, 2008

My favourite little monsters

OxMan posted:

Any combat tips for Dragon Age on the CONSOLE? AOE spells seem absolutely useless as they hurt my melee guys attacking the enemies I'm trying to cast them on more than the enemies themselves, and attempting to position anyone is an exercise in futility. How am I supposed to do this? I tried telling everyone to stay in the same spot, then move people individually where I wanted them but this took so long that the enemies would be repositioned near the Wynne again by the time I finished moving Alistair, Morrigan, and myself. Combined with laying traps which, as a rogue (and as the game is pretty drat challenging), is pretty much required for any sort of non-cannon fodder fight, I find myself either dying repeatedly on an encounter until I get lucky enough to cheese it, or find each little fight taking 5-10 minutes due to all the micromanagement. The ghetto gambit system seems to be nigh useless on anything but their default settings.

Secondly, I've played a ton of WRPGs and CRPGs and I still can't quite figure out what kind of equipment each class does well with. Should I focus on spellpower boosting no armor stuff for mages, or should I outfit them in light armor that gives them some protection that gives bonuses to stats?

I'm currently fighting Sloth inside the Fade and by the time I reach his true form after the 4 shapeshifts my party's just tuckered out and I can't keep up with healing everyone.

Dragon Age on the console is really full of bullshit, and I regret not getting it for the PC. That fight that you're talking about is just a small part of it. I recommend turning down the difficulty, especially for that battle, because like you said it's just an endurance match that you can't back out of to go level up some more or anything. AoE spells, while useful, are also a pain in the rear end since you can't rotate the drat camera to see exactly what they're hitting. I recommend cone attacks.

Heavier armor draws more attention from enemies, and it also increases fatigue, which increases the amount of mana and stamina that talents/spells use. Which is why it is typically better to go with light armor for mages that has no fatigue penalty, since their primary mode of attack is magic.

Man Dancer
Apr 22, 2008

MY FANTASYS.zip posted:

What's some tips on King's Bounty: The Legend? Never played a Heroes of Might and Magic game before.

Don't fight too many of the easier groups. They give crap for XP and you'll probably want them around to satisfy various artifacts that like when you win battles. You can juke and dodge around a lot of enemy troops without fighting them, but that can get tedious.

Finish the plugens questline as fast as possible.

Everyone else's advice was good, too.

Scalding Coffee
Jun 26, 2006

You're already dead

Carbohydrates posted:

It just has really random difficulty spikes. The final mission and a few odd ones around the middle are really punishing. Just remember that you can swap the difficulty mid-game, and for the really hard missions, the game likes to hide top-notch vehicles around for you to use if you go looking for them.
So it is exactly like a fully environment destructible GTA game? If I knew more about this game during the Steam sale, I would have bought it.

Miracon
Jan 1, 2010

Sodomy Non Sapiens posted:

Is it worth playing through all of the Megaman Battle Network series in order or are there ones I should skip or just one I should play etc etc. I am a fairly big Megaman fan if this helps. And having worked out which ones I should play, what should I know before I start?
Do not play them in order. The stories are barely connected, so don't worry too much about spoilers or confusion. The general consensus is that 3 is the best, while 2 and 6 are also worthwhile. 5 is also decent if you like the series and want more. MMBN2 is probably the easiest one of those to get into. Definitely skip 1 and 4, though. 1 is really dated compared to the rest; Capcom improved a lot after it. 4 is generally to be the nadir of the series in most aspects.

Most of the time, battlechips are a lot more efficient at damage-dealing than your buster. You typically need to specialize in the buster to make it as effective as battlechips. Chips with low attack power are mostly multi-hit attacks, which mean they combine well with support chips that boost attack since the bonus will be applied to each hit.

When building your chip folder, try to consolidate what code types you use. Chip codes dictate what you can use in one round, so a folder with less codes is easier to work with.

Using certain chips in the right order will combine them into a Program Advance, which deal more damage (sometimes a lot more) than the individual components. Chips that can do this are mostly related, like Sword/WideSword/LongSword which creates LifeSword.

When not on the in-game internet, poke around the scenery in new areas. You can often find hidden loot or hidden access points (which will probably contain loot as well).

I could probably post more, but I don't want to get too game-specific.

A Real Happy Camper
Dec 11, 2007

These children have taught me how to believe.
Just picked up Metal Gear Solid 2, any important things to know? I know some mgs basics, since I've beaten 1, but since I bought it used I don't have the manual.

ryan8723
May 18, 2004

Trust me, I read it on TexAgs.

Draile posted:

Like most of Oblivion's quest rewards, the Escutcheon of Chorrol scales to your level when you get it. If you get it early, it will have a defense rating and enchantment that really shows its age toward the end of the game. The longer you wait to complete the quest, the better the defense and enchantment on the shield will be: http://uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Escutcheon_of_Chorrol#Leveled_Statistics

Quest rewards that scale to your level is another reason why Oblivion is a weaker game than Morrowind. Do enough quests quickly enough and you'll have a huge pile of the game's "artifacts" that are useless later on.

It's still a phenomenal shield though and by far the best in the game. There is almost no reason at all to use any shield but that one.

On a side note, if you really want to break Oblivion badly do this glitch http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Glitches#Frostcrag_Spire_Glitch to get multiple copies of every Sigil stone. You will become an unkillable God if you do this though, so if you don't want to be completely invincible I wouldn't recommend it.

Barudak
May 7, 2007

Captain Novolin posted:

Just picked up Metal Gear Solid 2, any important things to know? I know some mgs basics, since I've beaten 1, but since I bought it used I don't have the manual.

there is no check the back of the CD case moment so don't worry about the lack of manual.

1)The tranq m9 you get early on is, if you want to avoid alerts, the best option. Hell on normal just pop a guy anywhere on his body and he drops, easier than real bullets.

2)Run plus bottom face button (A on 360/X on PS) makes you do a kickflip. It is only needed to cross gaps where the railing won't let you.

3)Coolant is for waking up guards by spraying them in the face till they awaken, if you want their dog tags.

4)If you hear a guard talking on the radio, avoid killing or knocking him out as he has to make regular updates to command or guards pour into the area.

5)The plot is, uh, the plot. Thats all about that I can say

6)Moving the thumbsticks around makes the faces in codec conversations move. Clicking them makes it zoom in. It serves no purpose except to help you pass the time during the dialogue.

Party Bug
Mar 13, 2008

SALT BECOMES EMPOWERMENT
MGS2
MSG2 has basically the craziest codec conversations of the whole series and a bunch of weird poo poo you can do to set them off. Don't miss out, if you see something weird or find a strange item give your team a call immediately. Trying doing it in the ladies restroom, looking at a magazine, or looking in a mirror.

As noted, the silenced pistol and tranq gun are the best weapons in the game. There is no reason you should be using anything else unless you're in a boss fight. Aim for the head.

You can hold up an enemy by sneaking up behind him and then pointing your gun at him in first person.

If you grapple a sleeping/held up guard and rapidly shake them their dog tags fall out. This happens to friendlies as well.

If you want 100% and cool stuff you need to collect all the dog tags. Each mode has different tags, you have to play through all of them. Don't do it for god sakes.

Also you get a prize for going through the whole game with no alerts/no kills. Yes, you have to non-lethal the bosses too.

The end of the tanker is basically the most fun place to gently caress around with the soldiers.

Always hide the body.

Party Bug fucked around with this message at 04:02 on Jan 15, 2010

A Real Happy Camper
Dec 11, 2007

These children have taught me how to believe.

Barudak posted:

6)Moving the thumbsticks around makes the faces in codec conversations move. Clicking them makes it zoom in. It serves no purpose except to help you pass the time during the dialogue.

I found this when I was dicking around, along with the buttons that make you go "yeah!" or "You've got to be kidding me!"

I'm going to be holding off really playing it for a couple days (I'm an idiot and thought my PS2 came with a memory card :saddowns:) so I'm still playing as snake, dicking around on the tanker.

Also, to add to the Oblivion discussion, there's also the scroll glitch to duplicate items. You get 2 or more of a scroll, equip it, then drop whatever item you want more of. You generally get as many of that item as you had scrolls equipped. Yes, this works with other scrolls, too, so you can have 1k+ anything (doing this with necklaces crashed my game)

Smirking_Serpent
Aug 27, 2009

Does anyone have anything for Silent Hill 3?

sexual rickshaw
Jul 17, 2001

I AM A SOCIALIST COMMUNIST MARXIST FASCIST FREEDOM-HATING NAZI LIBERAL CZAR!
Anything I should know about Batman: Arkham Asylum or Ninja Gaiden Sigma?

ArmoredBlue
Jul 1, 2007

Furthering the gay Mexican agenda.

OxMan posted:

stuff about Dragon Age

A general strategy that works well for most players is to have one tank character that will attract enemies (with Taunt) and be able to take damage (mostly with the Shield skills activated). Once you got all the focus on one character, have your mage cast Force Prison on him for protection while you cast an AOE/have your other guys finish the rest off from behind.

That battle you're talking about is extremely difficult, I will give you that. There's no shame in lowering the difficulty for that one battle. I would also recommend that you heal when a character is at about 50 percent health.

Batman: Arkham Asylum

Detective mode is your friend, and should be used when in new areas, at least for a little while. If you're having trouble progressing, there's probably a grate/weak wall somewhere that you're missing. Also, I would highly recommend focusing the upgrades on the combat, and then learn how to use the upgrades. The multi-batarangs and the explosive Sonic Batarangs are great things to have early on.

Backhand
Sep 25, 2008

OxMan posted:

Any combat tips for Dragon Age on the CONSOLE? AOE spells seem absolutely useless as they hurt my melee guys attacking the enemies I'm trying to cast them on more than the enemies themselves, and attempting to position anyone is an exercise in futility. How am I supposed to do this? I tried telling everyone to stay in the same spot, then move people individually where I wanted them but this took so long that the enemies would be repositioned near the Wynne again by the time I finished moving Alistair, Morrigan, and myself. Combined with laying traps which, as a rogue (and as the game is pretty drat challenging), is pretty much required for any sort of non-cannon fodder fight, I find myself either dying repeatedly on an encounter until I get lucky enough to cheese it, or find each little fight taking 5-10 minutes due to all the micromanagement. The ghetto gambit system seems to be nigh useless on anything but their default settings.

Secondly, I've played a ton of WRPGs and CRPGs and I still can't quite figure out what kind of equipment each class does well with. Should I focus on spellpower boosting no armor stuff for mages, or should I outfit them in light armor that gives them some protection that gives bonuses to stats?

I'm currently fighting Sloth inside the Fade and by the time I reach his true form after the 4 shapeshifts my party's just tuckered out and I can't keep up with healing everyone.

Remember to grab the lyrium veins lying around that area periodically. They'll restore a good bit of health and mana / stamina, and they recharge over time.

Vander
Aug 16, 2004

I am my own hero.
How about some advice for a slew of Wii games I got for Christmas: Anything I should know about The Conduit, Zelda: Twilight Princess, Silent Hill: Shattered Memories, or Resident Evil 0?

Morpheus
Apr 18, 2008

My favourite little monsters

Vander posted:

Resident Evil 0?

Rebecca Chambers is a dumb bitch. Ignore her, and use the other guy they give you because he is better in almost every way, especially zombie killing.

Vander posted:

Zelda: Twilight Princess?

The tutorial is very, very long. But it will go away eventually.

blackguy32
Oct 1, 2005

Say, do you know how to do the walk?

Vander posted:

How about some advice for a slew of Wii games I got for Christmas: Anything I should know about The Conduit, Zelda: Twilight Princess, Silent Hill: Shattered Memories, or Resident Evil 0?

In Resident Evil Zero, take the hookshot with you after the train crashes.

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mystery at hog island
Aug 16, 2003
Captain of Outer Space

blackguy32 posted:

In Resident Evil Zero, take the hookshot with you after the train crashes.

If your play style is anything like mine, the lower floor of the lobby is going to be a giant well-organized item box.

RE0, while fun in its own right, is an example of how lack of realism (magic item boxes) is sometimes preferable to realism (backtracking to the crash site from the end game to get an item you thought you were done with) in games.

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