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To me, WCW's tagline will always be: WCW: spraypainting people is both awesome and dramatic.
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Jan 24, 2010 20:25
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M1TCH3LL posted:
The discussion makes me wonder if the New Blood/Millionaires club storyline would have worked if they'd built up to it over time, instead of just restarting everything one night. If they'd had DDP and Sting start to abuse their power, on screen (not in the loving dirtsheets) then the fans might have been excited to see the young guys fight back against them. If Hogan had spent weeks holding down Kidman, trying to injure him, the fans might have popped for the heel getting his comeuppance. I think we all agree that the New Blood storyline could have been a good one if done properly- but what is responsible for loving it up? Did the main eventers use their backstage clout to make them look good in a feud that was supposed to be about them getting comeuppance for abuse of backstage clout? Was it Russo and Bischoff, loving up a good idea by shoehorning themselves and worked shoot storylines into it?
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Jan 24, 2010 20:32
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about the reboot
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The problem is that the old guys, especially Hogan, would never do such a thing. Even if everything went right, he would still make himself out to be a good guy, a cool heel, and always come out on top.
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Jan 24, 2010 20:40
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Just jumped on this thread, but I had to say, for all you naysayers out there... Hogan and Savage beating Flair, Luger, Anderson, Meng, Barbarian, Z Gangsta, and The Ultimate Solution in that Alliance to End Hulkamania Thunderdoom Cage Match was totally believable, and the apex of WCW.
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Jan 24, 2010 20:52
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It was so satisfying to see Tank Abbott beat the poo poo out of a half-naked Mark Madden. Some of those shots looked pretty stiff, too. That was probably the only worthwhile thing Abbott ever did in all the time he was there. Unless you count his being a groupie for Three Count. I remember that Madden used to continually reference CRZ (not by name) during his stint on commentary, because the two didn't like each other. Ironically, he would go on about how "some unimportant internet recapper" was a nobody not worth wasting his time. Every Monday night. EDIT: I find it funny that TNA has now hired the four people that put WCW out of business: Hogan, Nash, Bischoff and Russo. EDIT 2.0: Wasn't the Ultimate Solution's name originally "Final Solution"? Pope Corky the IX fucked around with this message at 22:13 on Jan 24, 2010 |
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Jan 24, 2010 22:11
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Pope Corky the IX posted:It was so satisfying to see Tank Abbott beat the poo poo out of a half-naked Mark Madden. Some of those shots looked pretty stiff, too. That was probably the only worthwhile thing Abbott ever did in all the time he was there. Unless you count his being a groupie for Three Count. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zASL2KYKRQ
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Jan 24, 2010 22:20
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Pope Corky the IX posted:
Yep. But don't forget, this is wrestling. Watching fans go nuts when Baron Von Rasche starts goose-stepping around the ring is just 
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Jan 24, 2010 22:24
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I am firmly of the opinion that the "New Blood were faces" theory is 100% nonsense. I'm not defending the story or execution in the slightest. It was a terribly executed angle with ridiculously structured roles. But I never for one second doubted that the New Blood were the heels. They weren't the young wrestlers who had been hitting their heads on the glass ceiling. They were the cocky upstarts who wanted to be given the top roster spots without earning them. It was a backwards and retarded bit of booking especially given the fact that there was a real feeling that they REALLY WERE being held under a glass ceiling, but that was the story I saw. And the Millionaires Club were the legends of the company who deserved respect and were being pushed out by new management. That's why when Kidman and co challenged them they accepted those challenges head on while the New Blood would get the odds stacked in their favor or cheat. Again, this was backwards casting made worse by a name that screamed heel, but that's what I remember them being presented as from Day 1. The "New Blood" were basically the guys the Main Event Mafia were scared of. And the Millionaires Club were the faces that the heel Mafia claimed to be, standing up for what was "right." It was stupid and rear end backwards from the start, but there's no way anything will ever convince me that Vampiro and Shane Douglas were the faces to Sting and Flair's heels or that Russo and Bischoff were supposed to be noble heroes. Russo himself could claim this was the plan and I'd be unsure if I could believe him. I know I went back and rewatched that first episode a few years back to test that theory and still felt certain the New Blood were the heels, but I'm almost tempted to do it again. The whole theory definitely feels like the sort of thing that happens when snarky people take something already mostly terrible and go over the top to make it 100% irredeemably the worst possible thing ever. And that happens with films or TV shows or whatever, too. Its always so weird when I find myself defending a bad film or TV show just because the criticisms of it start to become worse than the actual product. What I do know is that if I'm wrong then I was wrong the night it happened because I remember being beyond annoyed that they had cast the guys I wanted to cheer as the heels. And I remembered WCW doing this same thing multiple times in the recent past with the Revolution or a short term story where (of all people) Buff Bagwell and Disco Inferno started acting as young lions who wanted to break through the glass ceiling.
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Jan 24, 2010 23:21
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The entire New Blood stable was not supposed to be faces nor were the old guys all supposed to be heels. But people are forgetting the context of the time and what THE PEOPLE IN CHARGE SAID ON THE RECORD. The entire idea of the first Nitro of the reboot was to recapture the 18-35 demographic they had lost. Eric Bischoff was asked by Meltzer the next night on Wrestling Observer Live what he planned to do about how "uncool" WCW had become in the eye of the casual fan, specifically young viewers. Bischoff specifically said that the WWF had changed in a way WCW couldn't change, since TNT and TBS wouldn't allow the same sort of adult product. But instead, WCW could do things that challenged the fans, did things they couldn't predict, and surprise them. Obviously, Jeff Jarrett was not intended to be a face. But the idea behind the Hogan/Kidman feud was that younger male viewers would tune in and see this old guy cutting a pretty heelish promo on a young guy (after Bischoff and Russo had exposed how he "held people down") and Kidman wouldn't stand for it, and go after Hogan. Guys like the Filthy Animals were supposed to very much be cool tweeners who did heelish things for a reason to both babyfaces and heels. Remember, this is the time when SHADES OF GREY ruled all and Russo still to this days believes faces and heels in the traditional sense don't exist. Look how heelish the faces are in TNA, how often they cheat, overwhelm the heels with numbers, and how no one knew who the heels and babyfaces were at many times in TNA's history. They also tried to over reach toward the smarks with lots of insider references and storytelling. Bischoff specifically admits this and thinks it was a mistake. You also had very divided leadership at the top in WCW. Bischoff and Russo hate each other. When Bischoff was on WOL in 2001, he was nearly gleeful in laughing at Russo's failures. Just look at how quickly the whole thing fell apart when the shades of grey poo poo didn't work and no one got behind guys like Kidman. The New Blood had fallen apart by New Blood Rising, and the only real remnant of the story was the Bash at the Beach shoot angle which was supposed to be the climax of Hogan using his political power to screw the young guys. Edit: I think a lot of the confusion came about from usual internet hyperbole. The shades of grey and framing of the old guys actions as heelish, and some of their heelish actions became THE OLD GUYS WERE ALL ALWAYS MEANT TO BE HEELS and the tweener and face New Blood members became ALL THE YOUNG GUYS WERE SUPPOSED TO BE FACES when the reality was Russo's beloved shades of grey. MassRafTer fucked around with this message at 00:10 on Jan 25, 2010 |
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Jan 24, 2010 23:45
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Suben posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zASL2KYKRQ Thanks. And as much as the guy ended up being worthless in terms of drawing, he was obviously having a great time at that point. He even did an interview a few years back where he described his stint with Three Count as the most fun he ever had with the company.
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Jan 25, 2010 01:36
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Hahaha "WE'VE HEARD THE SHOOT INTERVIEWS OF THOSE INVOLVED"
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Jan 25, 2010 01:47
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Just curious, what exactly happened with Sid and his scissors? And if possible, a video clip?
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Jan 25, 2010 03:40
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The man called M posted:Just curious, what exactly happened with Sid and his scissors? He got in a fight with Arn Anderson backstage that resulted in Sid stabbing Arn with a pair of scissors.
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Jan 25, 2010 03:41
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Neodoomium posted:He got in a fight with Arn Anderson backstage that resulted in Sid stabbing Arn with a pair of scissors. And from what I recall, Arn STILL kicked Sid's rear end.
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Jan 25, 2010 04:03
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From what I've heard; back in '91 during a tour in the UK, a bunch of wrestlers were hanging out at the bar of the hotel they were all staying at. WCW was still taping weeks of television at a time, so a few episodes of Worldwide (I think) had already been shot with Sid as champion, even though he hadn't actually won the belt yet at a live televised event. Being that he was chosen to get the belt, it went right to his head and he was being a real rear end in a top hat about it that night. Arn Anderson tried to put him in his place and it almost turned into a brawl, but they were separated by everyone else. Later on, Sid showed up at Arn's hotel room, ready to finish the fight. During the scuffle, Sid grabbed a pair of scissors and stabbed Arn a few times, somehow stabbing himself as well. WCW immediately fired Sid (which is why he showed up in WWF shortly after, and why WCW didn't hire him back until '99) and found themselves in deep poo poo because, as I said, they already had weeks of TV in the can with him as champion. I believe it was shortly after this that they were able to get Flair to come back, essentially saving the company. Yet again.
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Jan 25, 2010 04:08
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Captain Charisma posted:The problem is that the old guys, especially Hogan, would never do such a thing. Even if everything went right, he would still make himself out to be a good guy, a cool heel, and always come out on top. This quote from the Observer comes to mind: Da Meltz posted:
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Jan 25, 2010 04:12
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Pope Corky the IX posted:From what I've heard; back in '91 during a tour in the UK, a bunch of wrestlers were hanging out at the bar of the hotel they were all staying at. WCW was still taping weeks of television at a time, so a few episodes of Worldwide (I think) had already been shot with Sid as champion, even though he hadn't actually won the belt yet at a live televised event. Being that he was chosen to get the belt, it went right to his head and he was being a real rear end in a top hat about it that night. Arn Anderson tried to put him in his place and it almost turned into a brawl, but they were separated by everyone else. Later on, Sid showed up at Arn's hotel room, ready to finish the fight. During the scuffle, Sid grabbed a pair of scissors and stabbed Arn a few times, somehow stabbing himself as well. WCW immediately fired Sid (which is why he showed up in WWF shortly after, and why WCW didn't hire him back until '99) and found themselves in deep poo poo because, as I said, they already had weeks of TV in the can with him as champion. I believe it was shortly after this that they were able to get Flair to come back, essentially saving the company. Yet again. Not quite. After the bar fight, Arn showed up at Sid's hotel room with a pair of scissors and stabbed Sid three times. Sid got them from him and stabbed him like 36 times. Needless to say, Sid won the fight.
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Jan 25, 2010 04:15
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The man called M posted:Just curious, what exactly happened with Sid and his scissors? He needed them. 61.
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Jan 25, 2010 04:16
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Rusty Shackelford posted:Not quite. After the bar fight, Arn showed up at Sid's hotel room with a pair of scissors and stabbed Sid three times. Sid got them from him and stabbed him like 36 times. Needless to say, Sid won the fight. Really? And all this time I thought it was Sid that started it back up AND used the scissors. I also remember hearing a story about Sid attacking Brian Pillman with a squeegee and Pillman beating the poo poo out of him.
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Jan 25, 2010 04:22
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Pope Corky the IX posted:I also remember hearing a story about Sid attacking Brian Pillman with a squeegee and Pillman beating the poo poo out of him. The story I heard was that Pillman kicked his rear end, THEN Sid went and found a squeegee, and when he came back, Pillman was gone. I'm shocked Bischoff didn't say, "Not so tough without a SQUEEGEE, eh Sid?"
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Jan 25, 2010 04:23
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Pope Corky the IX posted:Really? And all this time I thought it was Sid that started it back up AND used the scissors. Sid showed up to Arn's room with the leg of a chair. Arn opened the door and attacked with scissors. Sid got them and almost killed him.
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Jan 25, 2010 04:28
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I see. Then when was the Quote J-ru keeps quoting said?
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Jan 25, 2010 04:32
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The man called M posted:I see. Eric Bischoff came out one night and was convinced that every fan was a smark. He got into a confrontation with Sid and asked "WHAT'S THE MATTER SID? DON'T HAVE ANY SCISSORS?!?!?!" The crowd didn't react at all. None of them knew what he was talking about. After a moment of Silence, Bischoff just figured they didn't hear him so he yelled "I SAID DID YOU FORGET YOUR SCISSORS?!?!?!" Or something like that. I only saw it once. HulkaMatt fucked around with this message at 05:05 on Jan 25, 2010 |
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Jan 25, 2010 05:02
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Check the last page....it was JUST posted.Skinty McEdger posted:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T22TnNMftw (5:30 onwards.)
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Jan 25, 2010 05:42
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For what it's worth, they were safety scissors. loving safety scissors.
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Jan 25, 2010 05:51
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Minges posted:For what it's worth, they were safety scissors. Yeah, but according to GIS, all of these are called safety scissors:     3 of those could really hurt someone.
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Jan 25, 2010 06:22
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Rusty Shackelford posted:Yeah, but according to GIS, all of these are called safety scissors: Especially if a 6'6" 300 pound man was stabbing with intent to kill with them. 36 times.
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Jan 25, 2010 06:25
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The scissors incident saved wrestling fans from having to see Sid vs Vader at Starrcade and gave us the gift of Ric Flair vs Vader. Arn Anderson was stabbed for our sins.
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Jan 25, 2010 06:27
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MassRayPer posted:The scissors incident saved wrestling fans from having to see Sid vs Vader at Starrcade and gave us the gift of Ric Flair vs Vader. Arn Anderson was stabbed for our sins. I never knew that, but it just goes to prove that Arn is the unsung hero of wrestling always going that extra mile to make the show that much better.
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Jan 25, 2010 06:43
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Don't forget that Tank Abbot pulled a knife on a guy in the ring...on live TV (during a Superbrawl I think). Then he remained with the company for some time after. So WCW either A) told him to do it as part of an angle orrrr B) decided it wasn't something anyone should worry about.
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Jan 25, 2010 06:53
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"I think he was going to cut his beard off with that knife!"
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Jan 25, 2010 06:54
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GrimGypsy posted:Don't forget that Tank Abbot pulled a knife on a guy in the ring...on live TV (during a Superbrawl I think). Then he remained with the company for some time after. So WCW either A) told him to do it as part of an angle orrrr B) decided it wasn't something anyone should worry about. No loving way, video of this anyone?
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Jan 25, 2010 08:31
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PlasticSpoon posted:No loving way, video of this anyone? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0COYJyPqI8c The entire terrible match from Superbrawl 2000. The knife incident happens at about 6 minutes in.
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Jan 25, 2010 10:13
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Skinty McEdger posted:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0COYJyPqI8c The story I heard was that Tank asked if he could "use a weapon" after the fight was over, and management --assuming he meant a chair or something-- gave it the okay and the rest is history.
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Jan 25, 2010 10:59
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Moose Bigelow posted:Sid showed up to Arn's room with the leg of a chair. Arn opened the door and attacked with scissors. Sid got them and almost killed him. There was an excellent clip floating around youtube, from 2 Cold Scorpio's highspot, shoot interview where he pretty much describes the entire incident in full-detail, from Flair cowering in his room until the ordeal ends, to 2 Cold Scorpio saving Arn's life.
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Jan 25, 2010 12:46
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Curtis of Nigeria posted:There was an excellent clip floating around youtube, from 2 Cold Scorpio's highspot, shoot interview where he pretty much describes the entire incident in full-detail, from Flair cowering in his room until the ordeal ends, to 2 Cold Scorpio saving Arn's life. Really? Flair is like hiding or something and Arn has to go out there to face Sid? Man, was Scott Steiner right about Flair?
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Jan 25, 2010 15:03
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Skinty McEdger posted:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0COYJyPqI8c Haha, Abbot carrying the guy on his shoulder up the turnbuckle then botching it was great. "The strength of Tank Abbot is unbelievable!" (Abbot then drops the guy from the top turnbuckle onto the floor on accident) Along with the announce team taking shots after the "You hosed up!" chants as well - followed by a long crowd shot trying to mask the fact that he pulled a knife on the guy. 2010 TNA is getting so close to the madness of WCW 2000.
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Jan 25, 2010 15:04
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oldpainless posted:Really? Flair is like hiding or something and Arn has to go out there to face Sid? Man, was Scott Steiner right about Flair? If you knew Sid had it in for you you'd hide and make a big motherfucker like Arn Anderson take care of it for you too.
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Jan 25, 2010 15:05
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Skinty McEdger posted:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0COYJyPqI8c Oh, WCW. Just when I thought I had you all figured out, you pull a knife on me DURING a PPV. Mike Tenay: "Heed the warning, don't mess with Tank Abbott." Yes sir, will do.
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Jan 25, 2010 15:48
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CM Junk posted:If you knew Sid had it in for you you'd hide and make a big motherfucker like Arn Anderson take care of it for you too. True, but its not like Sid was after Flair. He was still after Arn. Looks like Arn didn't enforce too much on that go-round. Also, remember when Flair was in the insane asylum and out of nowhere, BAM SCOTT HALL!!! I think Hall and Flair just said hi or something and it went to commercial and it was never mentioned again. I mean Flair had a storyline going so he had a reason to be there, but Hall just made a cameo, I guess? He had been off TV awhile, but WCW calls him up and says "Hey, come back to TV. In an asylum. As a patient. For a 5-second shot. And that's all. Cuz it'll be funny."
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Jan 25, 2010 16:00
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