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Who Killed WCW?
Eric Bischoff
Hulk Hogan
Vince Russo
Jerusalem
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Karma Tornado
Dec 21, 2007

The worst kind of tornado.

oldpainless posted:

Also, remember when Flair was in the insane asylum and out of nowhere, BAM SCOTT HALL!!! I think Hall and Flair just said hi or something and it went to commercial and it was never mentioned again. I mean Flair had a storyline going so he had a reason to be there, but Hall just made a cameo, I guess? He had been off TV awhile, but WCW calls him up and says "Hey, come back to TV. In an asylum. As a patient. For a 5-second shot. And that's all. Cuz it'll be funny. Also, we'll pay you half a million dollars for your time."

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Neodoomium
Jun 20, 2001

You are now hearing this
noise in your head.



WCW was to money what a spigot is to water.

go speed racer go
Dec 11, 2006

~wat it do, dough~

oldpainless posted:

Also, remember when Flair was in the insane asylum and out of nowhere, BAM SCOTT HALL!!! I think Hall and Flair just said hi or something and it went to commercial and it was never mentioned again. I mean Flair had a storyline going so he had a reason to be there, but Hall just made a cameo, I guess? He had been off TV awhile, but WCW calls him up and says "Hey, come back to TV. In an asylum. As a patient. For a 5-second shot. And that's all. Cuz it'll be funny."

I believe this is what you were looking for.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DA-Zz6M_KBg

Kammat
Feb 9, 2008
Odd Person

mhz posted:

I believe this is what you were looking for.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DA-Zz6M_KBg

Oh man, Lil' Naitch in charge. I forgot how crazy that was.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

They were going to re-debut Hall that way, but they changed their minds. That whole angle was retarded.

Lamuella
Jun 26, 2003

It's like goldy or bronzy, but made of iron.


all of this reminds me of what was at the time to me about the most tasteless thing I think I saw WCW do.

Slamboree 2000 contained several utter stinkers, dreadful finishes and Ultimate Swerves, but they saved the worst for almost an afterthought.

In the dying minutes of the event, after David Arquette had turned heel in a triple cage match and punked out DDP to give the win to Jeff Jarrett (which made no sense, he turned heel in order to DROP the title? what?), Kanyon ran out to save DDP from a beatdown, only to have Mike Awesome powerbomb him from the top of the middle cage onto the entrance ramp.

Sounds like an average stupid event, until I tell you when and where this was happening. It was May of 2000 in the Kemper Arena, in Kansas City, MO.

One year after Owen Hart's tragic and horrible accidental death (from a FALL INTO THE RING), in the arena where he died, they end their show with a high altitude bump.

Free Market Gravy
Sep 17, 2005

I could totally be wrong, but I don't recall WCW trying to draw any sort of connection, consciously or otherwise, between that bump and Owen.

I think that was just the result of WCW not thinking (yeah, I'm surprised too) before doing.

It's a pet peeve and a dumb one, but to me, "tasteless" implies intent or reckless disregard for others' sensibilities. That was just the result of plain incompetence and stupidity.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!
It was a stupid, pointless bump. Well, maybe it has a point. To set up the incredibly obvious Kanyon heel turn on DDP. But it was really stupid and really thoughtless.

Lamuella
Jun 26, 2003

It's like goldy or bronzy, but made of iron.


you're right that they didn't draw a connection with the Hart incident, but it was an unbelievably dumb spot to do in that place and time. Tasteless was the wrong word, though.

Minges
May 4, 2006
'Cause everybody hates a tourist
As a Kansas Citian, I know like twenty people who saw Owen die legit, fifty with fake stories.

Not a single person I know other than this one retarded kid I know saw Kanyon take his bump.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!
I forgot Goldberg used to commentate on MMA shows. If you have Sho2 you can catch the Cung Le/Frank Shamrock fight right now with Goldberg on commentary.

DrewFoundGlory
Dec 6, 2006
You guys want some cookies?

Minges posted:

As a Kansas Citian, I know like twenty people who saw Owen die legit, fifty with fake stories.

Not a single person I know other than this one retarded kid I know saw Kanyon take his bump.

I saw Kanyon take that bump....I'm also a WCW mark. :downsbravo:

DannoMack
Aug 1, 2003

i love it when you call me big poppa
The reboot show wasn't that bad and the whole thing could have worked, so there. :colbert:

Gavok
Oct 10, 2005

Brock! Oh, man, I'm sorry about your...

...tooth?


People talk about the Fingerpoke of Doom and the reformation of the nWo to screw Goldberg over, but there's one segment from a week or so later that's also retarded and nobody ever remembers it.

The idea is that with Goldberg on a rampage, he's going to start picking off the nWo like he's Jason Voorhees. This involved, I poo poo you not, spearing Kevin Nash in the shower.

To expand on that idea, Nash hangs out with his nWo buddies backstage and they gloat. Then he decides he's going to go take a shower. He gets naked and walks into the shower and THE CAMERA FOLLOWS HIM! There's a mosaic over his waist and even the announcers are shocked to be seeing this. All so Goldberg can stalk him and lay him out.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

DannoMack posted:

The reboot show wasn't that bad and the whole thing could have worked, so there. :colbert:
I don't really think anybody argues that Russo can set up the chess pieces. He's just never been able to make with the follow-through.

If there was a job where all you had to do was write Chapter One and let somebody else worry about completing the thing, Russo would be the best.

Rousimar Pauladeen
Feb 27, 2007

I hate the mods I hate the mods I hate the mods! I HATE THE MODS I HATE THE MODS I HATE THE MODS! Hey wait a minute why do the mods hate me I'm contributing to the conversation I HATE THE MODS I HATE THE MODS I HA
Does anyone have the clips they would show during the Monday Night Wars on Nitro of Austin, Foley and HHH losing to midcarders on Saturday Night? These were usually bumper spots coming into a commercial.

Iskanderson
Apr 16, 2009

Free Market Gravy posted:

I could totally be wrong, but I don't recall WCW trying to draw any sort of connection, consciously or otherwise, between that bump and Owen.

I think that was just the result of WCW not thinking (yeah, I'm surprised too) before doing.

It's a pet peeve and a dumb one, but to me, "tasteless" implies intent or reckless disregard for others' sensibilities. That was just the result of plain incompetence and stupidity.

They also ran a mock funeral angle within a week of Dale Earnhardt dying, if I recall.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

And just recently, WWE had Vince McMahon "fatally injured" by a falling set literally less than twenty-four hours after a TNA crew member died this way.

Writers aren't always caught up on current events and don't always think about how one connects to the other.

Rusty Shackelford
Feb 7, 2005

Iskanderson posted:

They also ran a mock funeral angle within a week of Dale Earnhardt dying, if I recall.

That's stretching it, don't you think?

Lamuella
Jun 26, 2003

It's like goldy or bronzy, but made of iron.


the thing I think that frustrates me most about WCW was this:

It could have been so good.

They had some of the best and most talented workers in the world. For a time at least they were the only place on US television that had such a variety of wrestling styles and abilities. For a time they were the last bastion of "wrestling" versus "sports entertainment". Even at their worst, the wrestling on their midcard was great.

The problem was that almost every management decision made their product less palatable. They were under the control of either people who didn't understand the product or people who were mainly motivated by making themselves look good. Hogan's creative control, Nash having the book, Sullivan simply not knowing what to do with the product, Bischoff alternating between using the whole company to say 'gently caress you' to Vince McMahon and going back to the NwO well again and again, Russo utterly losing the loving plot because there was nobody to keep him in check. So much potential wasted, so many great matches that led to nothing.

On a purely objective level, they didn't put out the worst wrestling product possible. Any bush-league fed in a local town puts out a worse product, but that's because they're working with less resources both in terms of talent and finances. WCW had a nearly bottomless pit of cash, an amazing roster of talented people, and managed to turn this gold into straw. It's the wasted potential that frustrates the most.

DJExile
Jun 28, 2007


Lamuella posted:

the thing I think that frustrates me most about WCW was this:

It could have been so good.

They had some of the best and most talented workers in the world. For a time at least they were the only place on US television that had such a variety of wrestling styles and abilities. For a time they were the last bastion of "wrestling" versus "sports entertainment". Even at their worst, the wrestling on their midcard was great.

The problem was that almost every management decision made their product less palatable. They were under the control of either people who didn't understand the product or people who were mainly motivated by making themselves look good. Hogan's creative control, Nash having the book, Sullivan simply not knowing what to do with the product, Bischoff alternating between using the whole company to say 'gently caress you' to Vince McMahon and going back to the NwO well again and again, Russo utterly losing the loving plot because there was nobody to keep him in check. So much potential wasted, so many great matches that led to nothing.

On a purely objective level, they didn't put out the worst wrestling product possible. Any bush-league fed in a local town puts out a worse product, but that's because they're working with less resources both in terms of talent and finances. WCW had a nearly bottomless pit of cash, an amazing roster of talented people, and managed to turn this gold into straw. It's the wasted potential that frustrates the most.

It's scary (and sad) how well this meshes with TNA's current status.

Paper Jam Dipper
Jul 14, 2007

by XyloJW

Lamuella posted:

the thing I think that frustrates me most about WCW was this:

It could have been so good.

WCW in 1997 could possibly be the best wrestling year for any company. Including the WWF.

It was "so good", it just couldn't sustain it.

joshtothemaxx
Nov 17, 2008

I will have a whole army of zombies! A zombie Marine Corps, a zombie Navy Corps, zombie Space Cadets...

Rusty Shackelford posted:

That's stretching it, don't you think?

Maybe a bit of stretch, but NASCAR, WCW, and SEC Football were the top 3 Southern sports at the time. I'm guessing there was a ton of crossover. Hell, I STILL see people wearing Earnhardt Sr. shirts around today. I bet a few toothless wonders were slightly offended.

LightsGameraAction
Sep 4, 2006
I just watched the Monday Night Wars DVD with my girlfriend the other night and one thing I was aware of at the time but which I'm still surprised by when I see it is how many people were in the nWo at one point in time. How do you have a competitive roster with that many people on the same team?

Also I never saw the promo where Bischoff called Vince out to a fight before. I couldn't stop chuckling, it was just so awkward and nerdy looking.

CVagts
Oct 19, 2009

LightsGameraAction posted:

I just watched the Monday Night Wars DVD with my girlfriend the other night and one thing I was aware of at the time but which I'm still surprised by when I see it is how many people were in the nWo at one point in time. How do you have a competitive roster with that many people on the same team?

Also I never saw the promo where Bischoff called Vince out to a fight before. I couldn't stop chuckling, it was just so awkward and nerdy looking.

On the 24/7 Legends of Wrestling roundtable about stables, they go around the table listing their opinions of the best/worst stables of all time, and their worst stables are all like The Union, The Oddities, and then Ric Flair lists the nWo, and nobody really bats an eye because his rationale (a stable should make everybody within the stable better, as well as draw money because people should want to see the stable get its comeuppance, among other things) is so ironclad.

EricCrapton
Dec 17, 2009
I THINK ALL WOMEN ARE DUMB BROADS
I remember the days when WCW put that stupid WCW/NWO label on everything. Supposedly the idea was for the New World Order to eventually become its own company, which is all kinds of stupid that I don't even want to get into right now.

These were also the days when the nWo wasn't actually doing anything to try and take over WCW. By this point, it consisted of 700 employees, most of whom were jobbers or old men, arguing over who is in the Wolfpac, who is in the other nWo, who is the leader, blah blah blah. In fact, the Wolfpac weren't even heels. They were barely even tweeners. And the announcers treated them like faces, basically.

Just for gently caress's sake, I would have loved to have seen Bischoff go through with the idea and make the NWO its own show or organization or whatever. It would have just been too goddamn stupid to not watch.

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!

EricCrapton posted:

I remember the days when WCW put that stupid WCW/NWO label on everything. Supposedly the idea was for the New World Order to eventually become its own company, which is all kinds of stupid that I don't even want to get into right now.

These were also the days when the nWo wasn't actually doing anything to try and take over WCW. By this point, it consisted of 700 employees, most of whom were jobbers or old men, arguing over who is in the Wolfpac, who is in the other nWo, who is the leader, blah blah blah. In fact, the Wolfpac weren't even heels. They were barely even tweeners. And the announcers treated them like faces, basically.

Just for gently caress's sake, I would have loved to have seen Bischoff go through with the idea and make the NWO its own show or organization or whatever. It would have just been too goddamn stupid to not watch.

This is why they added Thunder.

DEAR RICHARD
Feb 5, 2009

IT'S TIME FOR MY TOOLS
"...oh, my new name is Seven BTW"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7RLzLXDsAI

SamuraiFoochs
Jan 16, 2007




Grimey Drawer

The A-Team Van posted:

"...oh, my new name is Seven BTW"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7RLzLXDsAI

I still want to see some of the vignettes before this. Apparently they scrapped the gimmick because some advocacy group thought that the vignettes made it appear as though Seven/Se7en/whatever was a child predator. I'm really curious as to how it came across that way.

oldpainless
Oct 30, 2009

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SamuraiFoochs posted:

I still want to see some of the vignettes before this. Apparently they scrapped the gimmick because some advocacy group thought that the vignettes made it appear as though Seven/Se7en/whatever was a child predator. I'm really curious as to how it came across that way.

I think there was some promo where he was standing or floating outside some kid's window just staring in at him all creepy like.

Strawberry Panda
Nov 4, 2007

Breakfast Defecting, Slow Dick Touching, Root Beer Barreling SwagVP
A decade later Dustin Rhodes is still playing Goldust after a failed run as some retard named Black Reign.

SiKboy
Oct 28, 2007

Oh no!😱

SamuraiFoochs posted:

I still want to see some of the vignettes before this. Apparently they scrapped the gimmick because some advocacy group thought that the vignettes made it appear as though Seven/Se7en/whatever was a child predator. I'm really curious as to how it came across that way.

I always thought it was because colombine happened, and suddenly "Gothy outsider in a black trenchcoat" was seen as being in poor taste, but I'm probably totally wrong about that. I just checked and its the right year, but wikipedia specifically says the child predator thing. Dunno why I had in my head that it was columbine related.

Wojtek
Oct 17, 2008

The A-Team Van posted:

"...oh, my new name is Seven BTW"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7RLzLXDsAI

Haha holy poo poo I don't remember this at all. Wikipedia says this was a worked shoot, so I'm not all that surprised.

That was a cool entrance though.

JavyOO7
Dec 4, 2005
y halo thar?
What is sad, and as plenty in this thread has pointed out, TNA is following the same dead end track that WCW did.

a) Hang on to the dinosaurs for too long.
b) Disregard the youth.
c) Creative direction makes no sense.
d) Way too much story over wrestling. And most of the stories aren't that good, either.
e) Disregard for what makes wrestling "wrestling".
f) Catering to the hardcore instead of the casual audience. Russo and co., usually say stuff like: "But no, we are booking for the casuals and not for the hardcore." And that's a lie since they've done shoot angles galore since TNA's inception, play out stories that maybe like twenty hardcore fans know about and other bullshit.
g) Always calling out the competition. Why? Maybe there'd be a point if TNA was highly regarded as a legit competitor to WWE but it isn't. Even if it WAS I see that there's no point but upsetting me because why the gently caress would I want to hear about your competition when I am tuned into your channel? It makes no sense. There's this awesome collection of videos at youtube with Scott Steiner ranting and raving on TNA... and there's a video where it seems like where its his debut where he screams three WWE main eventers and says WWE like a million times. ITS ANNOYING.

Volcano Style
May 2, 2006

THERE IS ONLY ONE
The sad thing is I actually remember Dustin Rhodes being really over as a rebellious face and then he turned heel and joined the 'Powers That Be' within the month.

SamuraiFoochs
Jan 16, 2007




Grimey Drawer

Volcano Style posted:

The sad thing is I actually remember Dustin Rhodes being really over as a rebellious face and then he turned heel and joined the 'Powers That Be' within the month.

Sounds about right. I mean poo poo, he was over even in that promo.

The Berzerker
Feb 24, 2006

treat me like a dog


I know this is from like 7 pages ago but I'm just reading this thread now so I'll just say a bunch of stuff:

Skinty McEdger posted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQtn_Ek0C_g

He's still in character, but he is just so calm and normal.

- While it's weird to hear Steiner talking like a regular dude, he also answers the "What superpower would you want if you could have one?" question by saying he'd like to be invisible, implying that he would use it to rape women. Holla if you hear me.

- That video of Mark Curtis kneeing/facelocking a fan owns

Giedroyc posted:

Currently watching Nitro episodes from late 96 since I didn't watch it at the time. Highlight of the current episode was Jeff Jarrett vs Rick Steiner that ended when "sting" walked in only for to be clotheslined and pinned for the victory?!?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kQScaWCpew 4 mins in

- This is loving mindblowing. It makes no sense at all. I mean I have seen a lot of dumb poo poo from WCW and this is a small drop in the river but seriously, watch this video if you haven't.

- I will never not laugh at Booker T holding that picture of Scott Hall.

This thread is great.

Rusty Shackelford
Feb 7, 2005

joshtothemaxx posted:

Maybe a bit of stretch, but NASCAR, WCW, and SEC Football were the top 3 Southern sports at the time. I'm guessing there was a ton of crossover. Hell, I STILL see people wearing Earnhardt Sr. shirts around today. I bet a few toothless wonders were slightly offended.

How many people had funerals that week besides Dale Earnhardt? How many wrestlers fell to their death in that same arena? There's a pretty big difference there.

Skinty McEdger
Mar 9, 2008

I have NEVER received the respect I deserve as the leader and founder of The Masterflock, the internet's largest and oldest Christopher Masterpiece fan group in all of history, and I DEMAND that changes. From now on, you will respect Skinty McEdger!

Some more forgotten WCW. The wacky misadventures of Steiner and Bagwell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMg-3Bc3SPI

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LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

SiKboy posted:

I always thought it was because colombine happened, and suddenly "Gothy outsider in a black trenchcoat" was seen as being in poor taste, but I'm probably totally wrong about that. I just checked and its the right year, but wikipedia specifically says the child predator thing. Dunno why I had in my head that it was columbine related.
You might be thinking of Berlyn. They delayed his debut by six months or so after that.

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