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Ah, so it was mocking fan fiction eh? I keep forgetting how on the ball Pratchett is about IT stuff despite getting all the Hex jokes. I think he should just stick with Ridcully and Granny Weatherwax musing about times going by relationship wise. I'll forgive MR mostly because of that awesome cover. I do wish some sort of primative firearms would finally make the scene because I really can't picture all this chainmail and battle axes on non Dwarvian characters now. Stupid Dr Cruces.
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Jan 26, 2010 18:00
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Sophia posted:I think Tiffany Aching and young Susan in Soul Music were great and believable young female characters Come on, the elephant in the room here is that all of Pratchett's young female characters are pretty much exactly the same person. Reliable. Level-headed. Fairly reserved. It's a weird blind spot, and it's even gotten worse as the series has gone on. Magrat and Angua had their own characters, but Susan/Tiffany/Daphne/Polly/Glenda/Agnes are pretty much punched from the same relentlessly commonsensical cloth.
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Jan 26, 2010 18:43
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At least Cheery is kinda unique.
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Jan 26, 2010 18:52
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Copernic posted:Come on, the elephant in the room here is that all of Pratchett's young female characters are pretty much exactly the same person. I guess I just don't agree, then, since I find them nuanced enough to be distinguished.  I do agree that he approaches them from the same angle most of the time, but that's because in fantasy protagonists are usually ideal versions of some archetype. Often for women that means level-headed, rational, intelligent, and secretly powerful. Agnes is the ideal version of what a fat girl wants to be. Tiffany is the ideal version of what an overlooked kid from a huge family wants to be. Susan is the ideal version of what every girl wants to be able to be like in school. Glenda is the ideal version of what the ugly girl from a friendship wants to be.Also as a British writer, I think he also approaches women from well... British women, especially well-bred ones. They often ARE like that, at least historically. Plus, you could draw similarities from all of the male protagonists too: that they all are secretly much smarter than anyone knows, they have hearts of gold despite their surface appearances, they have a flaw or hindrance that they constantly struggle against, and they are unwillingly thrust into the limelight. Vimes / Carrot / Rincewind / Brutha / William / Mightily Oats / Buddy / Windle / Moist all fall into that arena. That doesn't mean that I can't tell them apart motivation- or character-wise, it just means that they have their own general template as well. Vetinari is obviously a class all his own, because he's really intended to be a supplementary comedic character, though Vorbis certainly draws from the Vetinari idea. There are a few movers of the story who only fit three of the criteria (Ridcully, Victor, Lu Tze) but they still are basically the same building blocks. But none of this really bothers me for either gender, since it's fantasy designed for humor and if he has to know what their base nature will be to write characters that I care about and situations that I laugh at, then so be it.
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Jan 26, 2010 19:52
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Thats true. In the end we all love them equally. Because despite the fact they share the same simularities each to their own is unique. I find it hilarious as well that Nobby Nobbs isn't on that list. He never is.
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Jan 26, 2010 21:26
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Nobby Nobbs isn't really ever a character - more a running joke. He has a lot in common with Rincewind, though. They're both cowardly, devious, and generally treated with contempt. Both have gimmicks to differentiate, but they're still made from the same template. It's pretty common for writers to write the same characters every time. You write what you know after all.
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Jan 26, 2010 21:34
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Vetinari posted:As for MR, it does seem a little silly as well, but realistically, the entire book was about how women can do the same jobs as men, especially in times of war. Most of us probably weren't alive during WW2, but back then, there was a shortage of men so women stepped up to shore up the working men's frontlines across the world. Makes sense Pratchett's generation would still remember that era. That and the more obvious link, surely? There are a few histories of women living as men, getting married, having families and only being unmasked on their deathbeds. The final part of the book, and the whole backstory of the Sergeant, references this directly. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_First_Blast_of_the_Trumpet_Against_the_Monstrous_Regiment_of_Women - where the title comes from LSpace posted:And finally, 'Sweet Polly Oliver' tells the story of a woman who dresses as a male soldier in order to follow her true love into the army: http://www.lspace.org/books/apf/monstrous-regiment.html explains a lot of the jokes and references.
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Jan 26, 2010 21:50
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Cacto posted:Nobby Nobbs isn't really ever a character - more a running joke. He has a lot in common with Rincewind, though. They're both cowardly, devious, and generally treated with contempt. Both have gimmicks to differentiate, but they're still made from the same template.
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Jan 26, 2010 22:14
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SeanBeansShako posted:Well, Rincewind has a little more 'krisma. I thought it was well established in Feet of Clay that Nobby had "Charisntma"
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Jan 26, 2010 22:19
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Look at you all talking about relationships and there's not a single mention of Sam Vimes and Lady Sybil. Just because their relationship isn't all "Oh dearest let me pitch woo with my lute plucked from 'twixt the Cherub's nestling breasts even though I would never normally take anything from anyone especially from a woman because I respect your rights just as equally as any persons" and instead it's all about compromise and burnt bits of fat in bacon sandwiches. You make me sick. And whatever happened to Susan and Lobsang? I'm fairly certain that Susan appeared again after Thief of Time but that Lobsang never does. Is there every anymore mentioned on that? Susan's one of my favourite characters and I'd love to see what Terry could write about a relationship between Death's granddaughter and the personification of Time.
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Jan 28, 2010 14:49
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Sam and Sybil's marriage is beautifully portrayed, but the whole point of that is they basically went from "single" to "married" and completely skipped the romance portion of it beyond that one awkward dinner. That means he got to skip the part he's bad at (where adults are just starting to be attracted to each other) and go to the part he's good at. I miss Susan and Lobsang too.
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Jan 28, 2010 17:51
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Sophia posted:Sam and Sybil's marriage is beautifully portrayed, but the whole point of that is they basically went from "single" to "married" and completely skipped the romance portion of it beyond that one awkward dinner. That means he got to skip the part he's bad at (where adults are just starting to be attracted to each other) and go to the part he's good at. Ah, the Liz Lemon Fantasy Romance.
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Jan 28, 2010 19:00
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Small Gods Episode 3 and Episode 4 are up.
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Jan 28, 2010 20:23
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Nilbop posted:And whatever happened to Susan and Lobsang? I'm fairly certain that Susan appeared again after Thief of Time but that Lobsang never does. Is there every anymore mentioned on that? Susan's one of my favourite characters and I'd love to see what Terry could write about a relationship between Death's granddaughter and the personification of Time. All i really want out of Susan and Lobsang's relationship is a scene where Death has Lobsang, Susan and Lobsang's parent's round to his place for a dinner party as a 'getting to know you' event, or visa versa. Basically i just really want to see death say "I HAVE BROUGHT YOU A BOTTLE OF WINE BRIEF MORTALS"
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Jan 29, 2010 03:56
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Nilbop posted:And whatever happened to Susan and Lobsang? I'm fairly certain that Susan appeared again after Thief of Time but that Lobsang never does. Is there every anymore mentioned on that? Susan's one of my favourite characters and I'd love to see what Terry could write about a relationship between Death's granddaughter and the personification of Time. I always thought that was just Pratchett realizing that his style of writing wouldn't be the best if it was about someone's relationship. The "adventure" style fits seeing people GET together and live happily ever after. Hollywood is also based around this concept. Writing about a relationship for an entire book just doesn't seem like it would be that engaging.
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Jan 29, 2010 09:14
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Aussie Crawl posted:Basically i just really want to see death say "I HAVE BROUGHT YOU A BOTTLE OF WINE BRIEF MORTALS" The quote from Small Gods about turning water into wine is amazing.
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Jan 29, 2010 13:47
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ibroxmassive posted:The quote from Small Gods about turning water into wine is amazing. I don't remember that one, but my favorite line (which was sadly missing from the recent radio production) was: Didactylos posted:I will write you more balls than you can imagine.
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Jan 29, 2010 17:56
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I believe he means:quote:Humans! They lived in a world where the grass continued to be green and the sun rose every day and flowers regularly turned into fruit, and what impressed them? Weeping statues. And wine made out of water! A mere quantum-mechanistic tunnel effect, that'd happen anyway if you were prepared to wait zillions of years. As if the turning of sunlight into wine, by means of vines and grapes and time and enzymes, wasn't a thousand times more impressive and happened all the time... Edit: Went back to my own copy to make the quote accurate. Sophia fucked around with this message at 18:36 on Jan 29, 2010 |
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Jan 29, 2010 18:33
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For any UK Pratchett fans; SirPterry is taking the 34th Richard Dimbleby Lecture, on tonight at 10:35. Radio Times posted:Anyone who saw novelist Terry Pratchett's excellent programmes on Alzheimer's last year will need no encouragement to watch this. They were wonderful and you didn't have to be a Discworld fan to appreciate the mischievous wit Pratchett brought to bear on the subject. ("Alzheimer's is like having a moron living in your head, running around switching the lights off and stealing the words from the tip of your tongue," was one typically sharp line from the series.) Here, Sir Terry has been given free rein to speak his mind in the 34th annual Richard Dimbleby Lecture - he's the first novelist to have the honour. Details are sketchy, but we're told he will explore how the fact of an ageing population means we need to redefine how we as a society deal with terminal illness and death. It should be fascinating and, knowing Pratchett, funny too.
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Feb 1, 2010 22:08
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Radio 7 are moving on to Nation now. Episode 1: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00qg1s3/Terry_Pratchetts_Nation_Episode_1/
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Feb 1, 2010 22:58
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ibroxmassive posted:For any UK Pratchett fans; Watched this last night & by the end of it I was all tearful. Tony Robinson did a great job of reading the speech, but it was upsetting to realise that Terry couldn't do it himself.
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Feb 2, 2010 23:07
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Irisi posted:Watched this last night & by the end of it I was all tearful. Tony Robinson did a great job of reading the speech, but it was upsetting to realise that Terry couldn't do it himself. Thats a horrible thing to read just before I'm about to read some more of Jingo before lights-out 
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Feb 2, 2010 23:20
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Irisi posted:Watched this last night & by the end of it I was all tearful. Tony Robinson did a great job of reading the speech, but it was upsetting to realise that Terry couldn't do it himself.
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Feb 2, 2010 23:20
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Jesus christ i've read every single Discworld book and i only just realized why it's funny that a "seamstress" is named "Rosie Palm" aaaaaaaaaaaa Pratchett 
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Feb 3, 2010 01:56
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Forest Fuckery posted:Jesus christ i've read every single Discworld book and i only just realized why it's funny that a "seamstress" is named "Rosie Palm" aaaaaaaaaaaa
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Feb 3, 2010 02:23
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Casimir Radon posted:Anyone know of a way to watch this in America, I haven't been able to find it yet? The Dimbleby lecture is currently up on Youtube, though it seems to be without the BBCs' permission. If you want to simply read the script, it was reproduced with permission here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/feb/02/terry-pratchett-assisted-suicide-tribunal Both the BBC & the Guardian newspaper are giving Sir Terry a huge amount of support over this matter; it's good to see the press throwing their weight behind a subject that a lot of people would rather not think about.
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Feb 3, 2010 02:31
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Oh god I need a stiff drink after that article. I honestly think we will never see another Pratchett again too  .
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Feb 3, 2010 13:23
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More people need to see this...a DnD or GBS thread should be made on the right to die with dignity.
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Feb 3, 2010 13:36
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Vetinari posted:More people need to see this...a DnD or GBS thread should be made on the right to die with dignity. Done. It's in GBS with the lecture title
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Feb 3, 2010 15:08
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I checked several pages, but can't seem to find it?
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Feb 4, 2010 09:34
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http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3262795
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Feb 4, 2010 09:54
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Started reading Reaper Man again and I forgot how adorible Death acted getting his own hour glass.
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Feb 4, 2010 21:05
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I'm reading Soul Music now. 'He can't stop us. We're on a mission from Glod'.
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Feb 6, 2010 12:41
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John Dough posted:I'm reading Soul Music now. 'He can't stop us. We're on a mission from Glod'. 'I'm mean and turf and I'm mean and turf and I'm mean and turf and I'm mean and turf, And me an' my friends can walk towards you with our hats on backwards in a menacing way, Yo!' Shame rat music never took off.
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Feb 6, 2010 16:39
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John Dough posted:I'm reading Soul Music now. 'He can't stop us. We're on a mission from Glod'. That quote has to be one of my favorite from the entire Discworld series. In fact, I know a lot of people like to diss on Soul Music as a book but I think it had some of the best one-liners like that in the entire series. I didn't even get the "He looks Elvish to me" running joke until I read about it on L Space Web. Elvish - H = Elvis I enjoyed that book a lot. Especially the opening band that constantly changes names and is basically a Discworld Punk Rock band. Beautiful.
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Feb 6, 2010 18:11
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SeanBeansShako posted:'I'm mean and turf and I'm mean and turf and I'm mean It didn't have hole. 
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Feb 6, 2010 18:18
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John Dough posted:I'm reading Soul Music now. 'He can't stop us. We're on a mission from Glod'. "Azhural raised his staff. 'It's fifteen hundred miles to Ankh-Morpork,' he said. 'We've got three hundred and sixty-three elephants, fifty carts of forage, the monsoon's about to break and we're wearing ... we're wearing ... sort of things, like glass, only dark ... dark glass things on our eyes ...' His voice trailed off. His brow furrowed, as if he'd just been listening to his own voice and hadn't understood it. The air seemed to glitter. He saw M'Bu staring at him. He shrugged. 'Let's go.'"
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Feb 6, 2010 19:45
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Alvie posted:I didn't even get the "He looks Elvish to me" running joke until I read about it on L Space Web. Elvish - H = Elvis That leads into the most glorious & estoric pun in all of Disc history: the bit at the end where Susans' friend says "There's a guy works down the chipshop & I'd swear he's Elvish"...there's an '80's UK pop hit by Kirsty McColl called "There's a Guy Works Down the Chip Shop Swears he's Elvis" My dad actually cried with laughter when he read that bit.
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Feb 6, 2010 21:11
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I've read the main Discworld series (excluding the Tiffany Aching and Wee Free Men books) several times over over the past several years, mainly because when I finish a book and don't have a new one on hand I'll pick up an old Terry Pratchett book. I love it all, but I abhorred Unseen Academicals. Anyone else feel this way? It just seemed so cliched and boring to me, and felt like several steps back in general.
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Feb 6, 2010 22:10
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That's nowhere near as esoteric as the Selachi and Venturi pun. To clarify, Sharks belong to the Order Selachi and the Venturi pump is a kind of [b]Jet[b/] pump. The Selachi and Venturi feud is an elaborate west side story joke that never gets referenced anywhere in the books. I can't take credit for noticing that one, somebody earlier in this thread mentioned it and i'm eternally grateful to them for pointing it out.
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Feb 6, 2010 22:12
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