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John Charity Spring
Nov 4, 2009

SCREEEEE
...say he writes some drat good fantasy.

Young, dynamic, and working on a pretty solid rate of more or less a book a year so far, Joe Abercrombie writes inventive, nasty, blackly comic fantasy novels. So far, he's written six books, all set in the same world, which at first glance is your kind of standard medieval-on-the-cusp-of-technological-advance-and-also-some-magic setting. With this setting, and with some familiar tropes, he crafts something wonderful and unpredictable, and with some great swearing. Most importantly, it's not a twenty-book series that he'll die before completing; there's a completed trilogy and three self-contained books in the same setting, although they should really be read in publication order if you mean to read any at all because there is overlap with some of the characters and the worldbuilding from previous books is sometimes necessary for full enjoyment. Joe is currently working on a second trilogy in the same setting, although we have yet to get any proper details of what it will entail.

Here follows a brief guide to his books so far.


The First Law Trilogy




Where everyone should start with Abercrombie, and taken as a whole it's probably his strongest work. Thematically excellent and very consistent plot-wise. Follows three main characters: a veteran uncivilised warrior, Logen Ninefingers; a spoilt dandy cavalry officer, Jezal dan Luthar; and a horribly crippled torturer, Sand dan Glokta. Their trials and travails eventually interlink against a backdrop of escalating chaos, invasions, power grabs, and a quest for a magical artefact which isn't quite what it seems.


Best Served Cold


Set about five years after the events of The First Law, and with a few returning characters, this is however mostly self-contained. Monza Murcatto, veteran mercenary of the civil wars in Styria, is betrayed by her employer and left for dead. She vows revenge, and poo poo goes down. A little bit of a retread of The First Law's themes at times, this is nonetheless a great book, an unrelentingly bleak rollercoaster of death and destruction and betrayals. Contains probably one of the most shocking and kinetic bits of writing I've come across - the fight in the bordello where all hell breaks loose.


The Heroes


Another standalone novel, set about three years after the events of Best Served Cold. It covers a single battle from the perspective of participants and ancillaries on both sides, and is about as powerfully anti-war as a fantasy book could be. It closely follows three main characters - Curnden Craw, Bremer dan Gorst, and Prince Calder - although there are a multitude of other viewpoints too. In Abercrombie's own words: "Think Lord of the Rings meets A Bridge Too Far, with a sprinkling of Band of Brothers and Generation Kill." This is fairly accurate, all told. Probably my own personal favourite of his books so far.


Red Country


Abercrombie's take on the western genre, and heavily influenced by everything from Unforgiven to Blood Meridian. Mostly following Shy South and her stepfather Lamb's efforts to get back her younger brother and sister, kidnapped from their frontier homestead in a violent raid, it gives different perspectives on several returning characters and definitely shows Abercrombie's writing craft at its strongest yet.


Joe has a website, of course, which can be found at http://www.joeabercrombie.com/. He regularly blogs on such varied topics as his own books, aspects of writing or the fantasy genre, whisky, TV, and video games.

Let's keep plot discussion in spoilers, since this thread should work for those of us who've read the books and those who are merely intrigued about/being browbeaten into reading them.

John Charity Spring fucked around with this message at 14:13 on Apr 6, 2013

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Randy Marsh
May 5, 2007

by T. Finn
This series is amazing and he is getting better at writing with each book in my opinion. He's also writing at a good pace, so we can expect a lot of awesome books from him over the years.

Twoiism
Sep 10, 2008

Ever present.
Imagine George Martin, but a George Martin who isn't a total oval office. That's Joe Abercrombie. These books are gritty, funny and impossible to put down with none of that endless padding used in other series (*cough* Malazan). You need these books in your life.

Randy Marsh
May 5, 2007

by T. Finn
I love how the books are self aware and turn a lot of the fantasy tropes on their heads, such as Bayaz not at all being who he seems, if you go in thinking of him as the typical old wizard who guides the "heroes".

Smashurbanipal
Sep 12, 2009
ASK ME ABOUT BEING A SHITTY POSTER

Randy Marsh posted:

I love how the books are self aware and turn a lot of the fantasy tropes on their heads, such as Bayaz not at all being who he seems, if you go in thinking of him as the typical old wizard who guides the "heroes".

From his own descriptions of "Heroes", that's pretty much Abercrombie's point: everyone is kinda reprehensible and there is absolutely no "good" faction or person. It's all shades of vicious, vindictive, vain and other wise unappealing traits that are written so successfully that you can't help but empathize with the characters.

Glokta is the perfect example of this

Jorenko
Jun 6, 2004

I think you're just mad 'cause you're single.
gently caress yeah, Joe Abercrombie. I just finished The Blade Itself last night, and let me tell you, I'm running straight to a bookstore to pick up his other three books and they are going directly next in line on my reading pile, ahead of Malazan 5+. Seriously, why are you still reading this post when you could be reading The Blade Itself? GO!

Mr.48
May 1, 2007

Rhgr posted:

Imagine George Martin, but a George Martin who isn't a total oval office. That's Joe Abercrombie.

Well hes a right oval office to his characters :colbert:

Just finished the First Law trilogy and holy crap, if you think Martin is too much of a dick to his characters you aint seen nothing yet.

Smashurbanipal posted:

From his own descriptions of "Heroes", that's pretty much Abercrombie's point: everyone is kinda reprehensible and there is absolutely no "good" faction or person. It's all shades of vicious, vindictive, vain and other wise unappealing traits that are written so successfully that you can't help but empathize with the characters.

Glokta is the perfect example of this

Yeah but I cant really say I empathized with Glokta much, he really is a horrible horrible person. More like I pitied him sometimes.

Mr.48 fucked around with this message at 03:36 on Apr 18, 2010

verbal enema
May 23, 2009

onlymarfans.com
I've been looking for the second and third books for The First Law trilogy for awhile now. It will be nice when I find them so I will get to read The Blade Itself again :3:

Randy Marsh
May 5, 2007

by T. Finn

Mr.48 posted:

Well hes a right oval office to his characters :colbert:

Just finished the First Law trilogy and holy crap, if you think Martin is too much of a dick to his characters you aint seen nothing yet.

You haven't seen anything yet. Get out of this thread and read Best Served Cold. :colbert:

TShields
Mar 30, 2007

We can rule them like gods! ...Angry gods.
Ugh, finally have "Best Served Cold" in hand and I'm in the middle of one of Robin Hobb's trilogies. Guess I better finish this middle book then jump on "Cold" before I go crazy. But gently caress yes, amazing fantasy author, been talking about him for ages but nobody listened to me. :(

Bummey
May 26, 2004

you are a filth wizard, friend only to the grumpig and the rattata
Dude writes some good poo poo, he does.

John Charity Spring
Nov 4, 2009

SCREEEEE

Mr.48 posted:

Well hes a right oval office to his characters :colbert:

Just finished the First Law trilogy and holy crap, if you think Martin is too much of a dick to his characters you aint seen nothing yet.

Sort of. With Abercrombie, it tends to make a lot more sense, it's generally not just bad stuff happening for no good reason. It's for thematic reasons and it's usually as a result of the character's own actions. Of course, the end of Last Argument of Kings where Collem West gets magical radiation poisoning and will probably die was a bit harsh, but he's the exception.

Bummey
May 26, 2004

you are a filth wizard, friend only to the grumpig and the rattata

John Charity Spring posted:

the end of Last Argument of Kings where Collem West gets magical radiation poisoning and will probably die was a bit harsh, but he's the exception.

That was just a dick move.

TShields
Mar 30, 2007

We can rule them like gods! ...Angry gods.

John Charity Spring posted:

Sort of. With Abercrombie, it tends to make a lot more sense, it's generally not just bad stuff happening for no good reason. It's for thematic reasons and it's usually as a result of the character's own actions. Of course, the end of Last Argument of Kings where Collem West gets magical radiation poisoning and will probably die was a bit harsh, but he's the exception.

Its an awesome fantasy concept though- that those around massive magical events can experience some repercussions. As much as I like the character, what happened made sense in the world context.

ALSO:

Look at this fat skinny, ugly handsome motherfucker right here:

Click here for the full 800x1067 image.


Geez, if you go on his website, he's pushing some internet poll to get votes for his books! (Everyone go vote for him! http://www.joeabercrombie.com/news/)

That Absolute fucker genius! His book is promised for next year and he hasn't even given us an update this week! FINISH THE BOOK, JOE! (You know, at your own pace.. You've already worked so hard lately, wouldn't want you to overdo it.)

I swear this guy is the Anti-GRRM..

TShields fucked around with this message at 14:30 on Apr 18, 2010

Ballsworthy
Apr 30, 2008

yup
I loving love Nicomo Cosca. "I remained firm yet amusing throughout..."

edit: Shivers is probably my favorite, though.

Mr.48
May 1, 2007

Ballsworthy posted:

edit: Shivers is probably my favorite, though.

I hope he's better than in Last Argument of Kings, because he was a total bitch.

Bummey
May 26, 2004

you are a filth wizard, friend only to the grumpig and the rattata

Mr.48 posted:

I hope he's better than in Last Argument of Kings, because he was a total bitch.

You'd probably say the exact same thing about any of the characters from The First Law if you didn't see things from their point of view.

John Charity Spring
Nov 4, 2009

SCREEEEE
Regarding The Heroes, Abercrombie's let slip some interesting information on the characters and setting, which I only saw today.

In the comments thread of his progress report for March, he has this to say on the number of returning characters:

quote:

Lots of familiar faces. More so than last time, in fact. Among the central cast are Bremer dan Gorst and Prince Calder. In significant roles are Caul Shivers, Black Dow, Kroy, Jalenhorm, and Bayaz. Plus a galaxy of more minor returning players.

The central cast that he mentions are definitely going to be main characters subjected to the close third person stuff.

And as to setting:

quote:

About three years after Best Served Cold, so about eight after the First Law (I have more accurate numbers, but not to hand).

Mr.48
May 1, 2007

John Charity Spring posted:

Regarding The Heroes, Abercrombie's let slip some interesting information on the characters and setting, which I only saw today.

In the comments thread of his progress report for March, he has this to say on the number of returning characters:


The central cast that he mentions are definitely going to be main characters subjected to the close third person stuff.

And as to setting:

What? Another novel set in the north and no mention of Ninefingers? Outrageous! :argh:

Zasze
Apr 29, 2009
seconding all the love for the First law books and i really like the way the magic system was set up. magic is just bad news and gives weight to the fact the first law is essentially dont do magic the other side is full of crazy poo poo

Bummey
May 26, 2004

you are a filth wizard, friend only to the grumpig and the rattata

Mr.48 posted:

What? Another novel set in the north and no mention of Ninefingers? Outrageous! :argh:

I don't know, I'm not entirely sure I'd like to see Logen again. I like him, but I think his story ended well enough that bringing him in again might ruin it.

I'm getting the same sort of feeling with Best Served Cold. I know it's ... right for certain people to be where they are and enter into the story, but I can't help but feel that he's pulling in tried and true characters just because they're familiar. I don't disapprove, there are plenty of new characters thrown into the mix.

Bummey fucked around with this message at 04:17 on Apr 19, 2010

Mr.48
May 1, 2007

Bummey posted:

I don't know, I'm not entirely sure I'd like to see Logen again. I like him, but I think his story ended well enough that bringing him in again might ruin it.

Logen was by far my favorite character in the whole trilogy so I would definitely like to see him again.

HoAssHo
Mar 10, 2005

:love::love::love:
I started Best Served Cold today at work (boring receptionist job) and that poo poo had me hooked immediately. I just plowed through the first 100 pages. I like how it's basically fantasy Kill Bill.

Ballsworthy
Apr 30, 2008

yup
^^^ Revenge stories are so the best stories

Mr.48 posted:

I hope he's better than in Last Argument of Kings, because he was a total bitch.

To say that he grows up a bit in Best Served Cold would be a pretty big understatement.

I called Bremer for a main char as soon as he first announced Heroes, so that's cool, but the guy I really want to hear more about is Shenkt, sounds like him and Bayaz have quite the history.

Bummey
May 26, 2004

you are a filth wizard, friend only to the grumpig and the rattata
For those of us who haven't finished Best Served Cold yet, let's try to be wary of spoilers. Even little details like Shenkt and the banking house of Valint and Balk. We don't want another ASOIAF thread here.

Eunabomber
Dec 30, 2002


Bummey posted:

For those of us who haven't finished Best Served Cold yet, let's try to be wary of spoilers. Even little details like Shenkt and the banking house of Valint and Balk. We don't want another ASOIAF thread here.

Well unlike the ASOIAF thread you won't be spoiled to the fact thatShivers goes blind.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

Benagain
Oct 10, 2007

Can you see that I am serious?
Fun Shoe
God drat I love this series so much. The way the trilogy and Best Served Cold relate to each other and strengthen each other's themes is amazing.

To me, the entirety of First Law is about getting caught up in poo poo way above your head and ultimately not being able to affect it at all, being carried along by events and helpless to control them. Very much "your fate is pre determined."

And then Best Served Cold is essentially an entire work about individuals bucking the system and changing the world. Seriously, the happy ending winds up being the revenge-driven incestuous drug addict mercenary taking over a nation and running it with the help of a cannibal and an army of secret police, and you are rooting for her because everyone else is worse.


Also, The Cripple is probably my favorite character in any work of fiction. His relationship with Frost and Severain is so sublimely hosed up.

John Charity Spring
Nov 4, 2009

SCREEEEE

Bummey posted:

I don't know, I'm not entirely sure I'd like to see Logen again. I like him, but I think his story ended well enough that bringing him in again might ruin it.

I'm getting the same sort of feeling with Best Served Cold. I know it's ... right for certain people to be where they are and enter into the story, but I can't help but feel that he's pulling in tried and true characters just because they're familiar. I don't disapprove, there are plenty of new characters thrown into the mix.

I know what you mean. I actually thought that list of characters was just Joe joking around, at first, since it seemed like he was throwing everyone into the mix. Still, we'll be having a good number of new main characters and returning characters are probably in the minority. Also because it's about a battle a lot of the returning characters are probably going to die, so there's that!

Bummey
May 26, 2004

you are a filth wizard, friend only to the grumpig and the rattata
They're still great characters and the books are a lot of fun, so I am definitely not complaining!

Gravy Jones
Sep 13, 2003

I am not on your side
I haven't read Best Served Cold yet but I really enjoyed the First Law Trilogy. Very fast paced, a lot of fun and a lot of the boring (to me) fantasy stuff trimmed back to a minimum.

Despite the bleakness and death and all that they can be pretty funny as well in a slightly achronistic Black Adder kind of way.

I just started Retribution Falls by Chris Wooding and thought it had a similar feel. Not far enough into it to give it a solid recommendation either way. It's similarly fast-paced, brutal without getting too bogged down in lore and world building and really doesn't feel like it's going to be super-happy-fun time for the obviously very flawed protagonists. It's more steampunk (guns and airships) than high fantasy. But in terms of tone it might be worth a shot for people who prefer this kind of fantasy to the density of something like the Malazan books.

And while he's not as handsome :allears: they share a similar taste in dust jacket photos

Gravy Jones fucked around with this message at 11:04 on Apr 19, 2010

onefish
Jan 15, 2004

Mr.48 posted:

Logen was by far my favorite character in the whole trilogy so I would definitely like to see him again.

I agree. Logen is tremendously interesting and fun to read about.

I'm in the middle of Before They are Hanged right now and loving it. Man, say one thing for Joe Abercrombie, say he can write an awesome fight scene.

Kellanved
Sep 7, 2009
I swear, this guy is the anti-gurrm. He's already finished the first draft of Heroes and he goes on and gives details on his writing/editing schedule for the next couple of months. So yeah, we'll most likely have the book by February next year.

OP: Here's the provisional US cover art for "Heroes".

Ballsworthy
Apr 30, 2008

yup

Gravy Jones posted:

Despite the bleakness and death and all that they can be pretty funny as well in a slightly achronistic Black Adder kind of way.

I think they're loving hilarious, his sense of humor is one of my favorite things about the books. Frost's lisp and the Dogman's clumsiness in particular gave me some pretty unexpected laughs.

TShields
Mar 30, 2007

We can rule them like gods! ...Angry gods.

Kellanved posted:

I swear, this guy is the anti-gurrm.

Thats my line. :colbert:

Biplane
Jul 18, 2005

Gravy Jones posted:

I haven't read Best Served Cold yet but I really enjoyed the First Law Trilogy. Very fast paced, a lot of fun and a lot of the boring (to me) fantasy stuff trimmed back to a minimum.

Despite the bleakness and death and all that they can be pretty funny as well in a slightly achronistic Black Adder kind of way.

I just started Retribution Falls by Chris Wooding and thought it had a similar feel. Not far enough into it to give it a solid recommendation either way. It's similarly fast-paced, brutal without getting too bogged down in lore and world building and really doesn't feel like it's going to be super-happy-fun time for the obviously very flawed protagonists. It's more steampunk (guns and airships) than high fantasy. But in terms of tone it might be worth a shot for people who prefer this kind of fantasy to the density of something like the Malazan books.

And while he's not as handsome :allears: they share a similar taste in dust jacket photos



Chris Wooding wrote a couple of novels I liked a whole loving lot, The Fade, and the, um, Weaver trilogy? I bought an omnibus version of that one, and I read it all in like 3 days, that poo poo was mad awesome. Especially The Fade, that book ruled hard.

grumpy
Aug 30, 2004

This thread has motivated me to give The Blade Itself another try. I got about halfway through it last year but it never really clicked for me. I never felt connected to the story or to the characters and it became a chore to read so I put it on the shelf.

Financial Panther
Sep 22, 2007

woo woo woo

TShields posted:

Its an awesome fantasy concept though- that those around massive magical events can experience some repercussions. As much as I like the character, what happened made sense in the world context.

ALSO:

Look at this fat skinny, ugly handsome motherfucker right here:

Click here for the full 800x1067 image.


Geez, if you go on his website, he's pushing some internet poll to get votes for his books! (Everyone go vote for him! http://www.joeabercrombie.com/news/)

That Absolute fucker genius! His book is promised for next year and he hasn't even given us an update this week! FINISH THE BOOK, JOE! (You know, at your own pace.. You've already worked so hard lately, wouldn't want you to overdo it.)

I swear this guy is the Anti-GRRM..

Oh my god.. Joe Abercrobie is... Hot... :swoon: :swoon: :swoon: It's SO refreshing to say that after seeing GRRM's greasy mug all over the drat place.

Not really much else to add right now, but I really love this series. No other, not even Ice and Fire has made me yell 'Oh no!' and 'Holy poo poo! out loud as much as this one has.

I really love his style of writing too. I was laughing all the way through the Ferro/Logen sex scene .

a shitty king
Mar 26, 2010
These are fantastic books. It's really refreshing to see a fantasy series that isn't bogged down with description. All the dialogue feels pretty natural, and whereas other fantasy is quite often unrealistic in it's dialogue, Abercrombie just comes along with a line like 'gently caress you, you loving pig fucker' or something that makes it so much more realistic (insofar as books like these can be).

Spoilers for the First Law trilogy: Psychotic though they all are, when Glokta realises Severard and Frost are betraying him and kills them made me sad. I really wanted for these three psycho's to make it through together. :(

Spoiler for Best Served Cold: So I always interpreted the whole incest thing as being more like an insult and an attempt by whoever said it (it's been a while since I read it) to weaken her standing with her group. I guess some of the flashbacks with her brother were a tad creepy. Like I said, it's been a while since I read it so if I've totally missed something, do tell. :)

These books are the bomb, anyone who's into fantasy should read them.

Ballsworthy
Apr 30, 2008

yup
Nope, Monza totally hosed her brother

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Randy Marsh
May 5, 2007

by T. Finn
Yeah. Totally. I love how she doesn't give a gently caress though, and I'd never bring it up with her.

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