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oldpainless posted:The sixth is, in a word, ahugefuckingwasteoftime. I really didn't like it reading it and now can barely remember lots of the book. In fact, I don't know a single person who professes to liking the book. I think this is where self-insertion came into play heavily. I would say that while it is the weakest of the series, I wouldn't say that I disliked it. Books 5 and 7 both had parts that were worse than book 6, but they also had parts there much, much stronger. Book 6 was consistently mediocre. The opening chapters of book 5 bugged the hell out of me with the whole "19" thing. I didn't have a problem with the idea but with the way it was presented. Rather than introduce the concept of this reoccurring number subtly, King just spends the first chapters of the book having the main characters go, "Oh! Holy poo poo! The address on that house was #19! These pants cost me $19! The number of moles on our bodies adds up to 19! WHAT A COINCIDENCE! Roland, don't you think 19 is important?!"
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Apr 16, 2010 21:18
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King books are all like they are written by that one friend who always thinks he has pretty badass ideas (which may sound good at the beginning) but always end up with you kind of depressed and thinking, "ugh dude this is actually pretty loving lame" in the back of your head. I honestly can't think of one that doesn't fit this description, besides a few of his short stories like The Jaunt, but I read that when I was 13 so who knows if it's held up over time. Even the Dark Tower series is like that. Malaleb posted:The opening chapters of book 5 bugged the hell out of me with the whole "19" thing. I didn't have a problem with the idea but with the way it was presented. Rather than introduce the concept of this reoccurring number subtly, King just spends the first chapters of the book having the main characters go, "Oh! Holy poo poo! The address on that house was #19! These pants cost me $19! The number of moles on our bodies adds up to 19! WHAT A COINCIDENCE! Roland, don't you think 19 is important?!" Yeah see, you get the impression that King thinks this is super badass from how he writes and repeats himself, but in fact it is Actually Pretty loving Lame.
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Apr 16, 2010 21:37
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The Shining is an excellent five-act tragedy that I read every year and it never gets any less great. 
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Apr 18, 2010 08:39
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The Cell was awful, I honestly could not believe how bad it was. On the other hand Needful Things is by far my favourite King book, amazing interesting take on Something Wicked this Way Comes.
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Apr 18, 2010 18:35
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oldpainless posted:The fifth book has a huge chunk of story not really related to Roland's quest, so thats a big turn-off for some people. Other than that, which IS a deal-breaker for many, I liked the rest of the book. I like the Old West setting and the characters and there's a nice sense of foreboding built up for the Wolves. The end starts to veer into the fantastic, though. That's pretty close to my own views. I feel like the series would have been a lot better off if King had plotted it out ahead of time, but I know that's not how he writes. Is anyone interested in a spoiler-y Dark Tower thread? I listened through the whole series on audiobook at work over a month or so (was curious about it given how much it's talked about in TBB) and wanted to hear some other opinions.
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Apr 18, 2010 22:00
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El Asso posted:Even the Dark Tower series is like that. The first book can be read on its own (especially the original edition) and holds up just fine.
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Apr 18, 2010 22:37
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I finished Lisey's Story. I'm left without an understanding of the strong hatred for it. It's not great, it's not bad. The made up words are particularly annoying but definitely not as stupid as the stuff in the later Dark Tower books. The plot is nowhere near as stupid as Cell. Lisey's feelings for the absent Scott are affecting in the same way that the sadness of Ralph in Insomnia and Mike in Bag of Bones were. You can't deny that King does a good job writing about missing a dead spouse. Teriyaki Hairpiece fucked around with this message at 02:21 on Apr 19, 2010 |
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Apr 18, 2010 23:55
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Agreed. Also for an author who has stated that he cannot write female characters very well I thought Lisey and her sisters were pretty fine characters. Certainly better that his earlier efforts. There is one scene in Liseys Story that freaked me the hell out. When Lisey is sharing her bed with her sister and Scott starts coming through in the dark I had to put the book down for the night. I had someone next to me in bed mumbling in her sleep and well, yeah, it got to me. I'd probable have run screaming from the room if I heard her talking using the tone of someone I had known who had died. Putting that next on my to re-read list. At the moment I've moved onto another book, but Dolores Claiborne and now Lisey are waiting there for me.
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Apr 19, 2010 00:32
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oldpainless posted:The sixth is, in a word, ahugefuckingwasteoftime. I really didn't like it reading it and now can barely remember lots of the book. In fact, I don't know a single person who professes to liking the book. I think this is where self-insertion came into play heavily. A friend of mine just finished Song of Susannah and so I kept pestering him with questions like "Did X happen yet?" "Did this person say _________?" "Did they meet A, B and C?" "Did Stephen King ___________ yet?" and he keeps saying "Nope, not yet I guess!" and it made me remember what a horrible loving waste of time Song of Susannah was. Nothing happens in that novel except Mia whining about her chap. Malaleb posted:The opening chapters of book 5 bugged the hell out of me with the whole "19" thing. I didn't have a problem with the idea but with the way it was presented. Rather than introduce the concept of this reoccurring number subtly, King just spends the first chapters of the book having the main characters go, "Oh! Holy poo poo! The address on that house was #19! These pants cost me $19! The number of moles on our bodies adds up to 19! WHAT A COINCIDENCE! Roland, don't you think 19 is important?!" More than that, it takes Jake about 20 pages before he starts calling them the ka-tet of 19 and declares "Oh, by the way 99 is an important number, too!"
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Apr 19, 2010 20:19
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Astfgl posted:A friend of mine just finished Song of Susannah and so I kept pestering him with questions like "Did X happen yet?" "Did this person say _________?" "Did they meet A, B and C?" "Did Stephen King ___________ yet?" and he keeps saying "Nope, not yet I guess!" and it made me remember what a horrible loving waste of time Song of Susannah was. Nothing happens in that novel except Mia whining about her chap. Since apparently he is working on another Dark Tower book despite having finished it in like book 9 or whatever, I fully expect him to drag it out till he makes 19 Dark Tower books total.
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Apr 19, 2010 21:46
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juliuspringle posted:Since apparently he is working on another Dark Tower book despite having finished it in like book 9 or whatever, I fully expect him to drag it out till he makes 19 Dark Tower books total.
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Apr 20, 2010 00:54
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Does anybody else think the whole "demon baby" thing wasn't what he originally planned? There's no hint that there's something wrong with the pregnancy until The Wolves of Calla and that's after he's pretty much gone off the rails from what the series was, as it's the start of a whole bunch of stuff that had nothing to do with the series before like 19 and 99 and all of a sudden Roland has arthritis despite never mentioning it before.
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Apr 20, 2010 05:37
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muscles like this? posted:Does anybody else think the whole "demon baby" thing wasn't what he originally planned? He didn't plan anything. Anything. He freely admitted he was making everything up on a book-by-book basis.
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Apr 20, 2010 09:29
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Junkenstein posted:He didn't plan anything. Anything. He freely admitted he was making everything up on a book-by-book basis. Yeah, he talks about it in On Writing. King doesn't plan. He just writes and writes and writes with no ending in mind, which is why his endings usually feel rushed and/or awful.
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Apr 20, 2010 12:08
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He said he did plan a few books, Insomnia and one other, and I think we can all see that planning doesn't change anything for him.
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Apr 20, 2010 14:13
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Zimadori Zinger posted:Yeah, he talks about it in On Writing. King doesn't plan. He just writes and writes and writes with no ending in mind, which is why his endings usually feel rushed and/or awful. He has flashback-Scott speak badly about planning out books in Lisey's Story.
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Apr 20, 2010 16:24
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cheerfullydrab posted:I finished Lisey's Story. I think the problem with Lisey's story (aside from the annoying words) is that it meanders. It takes forever to build up any sort of momentum and go anywhere. When it actually does start moving it gets pretty drat interesting.
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Apr 20, 2010 20:48
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The Saddest Robot posted:I think the problem with Lisey's story (aside from the annoying words) is that it meanders. It takes forever to build up any sort of momentum and go anywhere. You could probably make a case for lots of King's books doing this. But if you like the book, you call it "characterization and setting the scene" while if you dislike it, its just "meandering and wasting time." Probably the best example is Needful Things. Many people seem to like that beginning of just describing how a small town works and all its idiosyncrasies because it does a superb job of showing the world the book takes place in and its inhabitants. While other people see it as slow, boring, and an exposition info-dump that could easily be edited down so we can get to the good stuff. But its hard to say anyone is subjectively right or wrong. I'm guilty of it myself depending on how much I like a book. If I like a book, for whatever reason, I'll happily read 50 pages of almost no action or meaningful dialogue because I'm caught in their world. But I'll complain loudly about being bored out of my mind reading about the neighbor's tree-house or when the general store opened in a book I'm not liking. And these are both King books I'll be reading. So, I guess its all subjective depending on enjoyment of the book.
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Apr 20, 2010 21:48
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muscles like this? posted:Does anybody else think the whole "demon baby" thing wasn't what he originally planned? There's no hint that there's something wrong with the pregnancy until The Wolves of Calla and that's after he's pretty much gone off the rails from what the series was, as it's the start of a whole bunch of stuff that had nothing to do with the series before like 19 and 99 and all of a sudden Roland has arthritis despite never mentioning it before. I thought he did drop hints of it before WotC, but I may be misremembering. It was on my mind during the rest of books 3 and 4, it felt like he'd left something about it planted in the narrative after her original encounter with the demon. It wasn't like an outright "ah, demon baby on the way" but when it happened in book 5 it didn't seem like he'd pulled it out of the air. I went in to the books with no spoilers or anything so I wasn't looking for it deliberately. As far as the resolution of that plotline, yeah, it just sort of fizzled because he obviously didn't know where he was going for it. One of the biggest  moments in that regard was the Ticktock Man's brief walk-on role in the fourth book, it just seemed obvious King had thought "wouldn't it be cool if..." when he was getting towards the end of the third book, and then he realized he couldn't think of anything interesting or relevant to do with the character, but knew he couldn't get away with bringing him back to just have him disappear for no reason.When Roland got arthritis I felt sure King was going to kill him off 
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Apr 21, 2010 01:00
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Pompous Rhombus posted:That's pretty close to my own views. I feel like the series would have been a lot better off if King had plotted it out ahead of time, but I know that's not how he writes. Make one if you like. poo poo, I'll talk about the goddam things all day.
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Apr 21, 2010 02:57
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Dear TBB, I have a confession to make: I loved The Dark Tower's Ending. Sincerely, Chef Bromden
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Apr 21, 2010 03:21
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Like him or not, is it fair to say that King has a unique style?
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Apr 21, 2010 07:27
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I think it is. It's almost a campfire style. Or at least it used to be. Most of his novels can be started by, "This happened to a friend of mine," and when boiled down the plots were very simple. I think there is an intimacy in Kings writing. Reading some of his novels feel like he is telling you the story himself and the pages sort of fall away. Old Grandpa is what I would call his style because it feels like you are listening to someone physically tell you a story. But it is also his undoing I think. Once you lose interest in the story all you hear is someone meander on and tell you something that you are not switched on to. This is probably why a lot of people didn't like Lisey's Story or the latter part of the Dark Tower series. The more distance King puts between himself and the reader - odd words, self insertion, manipulated actions by characters to get them to a certain position - the more you realise you are reading and that magic is lost. The less he does it - when he welcomes you back to Castle Rock by sitting next to you and telling you about what's been happening in the town or when he throws you into Paul Sheldons mind during Misery - the more effective he is. There is a reason that some of his best stories (Stand By Me, Shawshank Redemption, The Mist, The Long Walk, Dolores Claiborne) are told in first person and some of the poorer entries are told in third person or are broken up between them in the first and third person the way Christine was.
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Apr 21, 2010 09:49
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Chef Bromden posted:Dear TBB, I would have been disappointed if it had ended any other way.
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Apr 21, 2010 14:35
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Local Group Bus posted:I think it is. It's almost a campfire style. Or at least it used to be. Most of his novels can be started by, "This happened to a friend of mine," and when boiled down the plots were very simple. And on that note, I LOVE when he's reading the audiobook version of his books.
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Apr 21, 2010 15:11
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Mister Kingdom posted:I would have been disappointed if it had ended any other way. As a book 7 hater, its not so much the ending as it is the major villains just dying anti-climatically, and a random magic kid showing up to save the day with no foreshadowing. The actual ending was fine though.
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Apr 21, 2010 16:47
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Big Mad Drongo posted:As a book 7 hater, its not so much the ending as it is the major villains just dying anti-climatically, and a random magic kid showing up to save the day with no foreshadowing. The actual ending was fine though. That is usually a big a complaint with a lot of his books that the villains die anticlimactically, but I see it more as a running theme. Given time, evil or "the monsters" will often undermine themselves due to their own flaws.The crimson king going insane, the evil demon thing from Desperation destroying the bodies it inhabits, the "evolved" townspeople in Tommyknockers killing each other for petty reasons. Or, evil loses its power if enough people stand up to it and stop believing it has power. Randall Flagg in the Stand, It. I can understand the disappointment from a narrative anticlimax, but it seems to me that King does it on purpose and not just because he doesn't know how to end his books. In book 7, I was actually the most disappointed with Eddie's and Jake's deaths. They didn't seem to have the impact that they should.
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Apr 21, 2010 19:20
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oldpainless posted:Make one if you like. poo poo, I'll talk about the goddam things all day. I was hoping someone more well-versed in them would, I've only gone through them once and haven't really read/talked about them since
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Apr 21, 2010 21:08
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Pompous Rhombus posted:I thought he did drop hints of it before WotC, but I may be misremembering. It was on my mind during the rest of books 3 and 4, it felt like he'd left something about it planted in the narrative after her original encounter with the demon. It wasn't like an outright "ah, demon baby on the way" but when it happened in book 5 it didn't seem like he'd pulled it out of the air. Well heck, she hosed a demon, so a demon baby a bit after definitely wouldn't be out of nowhere. I too am a DT7 lover, I confess. Loved it. Agree that 6 was pretty pointless, though. I didn't hate it, but it certainly did not add much.
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Apr 22, 2010 00:03
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Malaleb posted:That is usually a big a complaint with a lot of his books that the villains die anticlimactically, but I see it more as a running theme. Given time, evil or "the monsters" will often undermine themselves due to their own flaws.The crimson king going insane, the evil demon thing from Desperation destroying the bodies it inhabits, the "evolved" townspeople in Tommyknockers killing each other for petty reasons. Or, evil loses its power if enough people stand up to it and stop believing it has power. Randall Flagg in the Stand, It. I can't agree with the Tommyknockers complaint. the evolved townspeople killing each other and themselves periodically with their "improved" inventions is an interesting plot point to me as it shows people struggling with their changes (and part of the changes is to impulsive and violent behavior) as well as not understanding the forces they are working with. I thought the ending itself with the final battle was great with Jim fighting his way to the ship while the townsfolk decend on him with their lethally modified household items. The raygun whirling umbrella powered by the old man in the tank was a decent enough way to have Jim have a slightly plausabe chance in getting from the cabin to the dig site before he got homogenized in a dozen interesting ways. The final ship powerup "sucking their brains out" moment wasn't an anti-climax to me at all, especially since it leads to him flying the ship out of the ground in the middle of a forest fire in front of the approaching rescuers/army and then he flys the ship off into space. I like Tommyknockers and think it's one of the stronger endings Steve's written.
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Apr 22, 2010 13:29
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NosmoKing posted:I like Tommyknockers and think it's one of the stronger endings Steve's written. I guess I was unclear. I wasn't saying I thought those were weak endings. I just think that Stephen King's villains are often not at their strongest during the final showdowns, and this often contributes to the disappointment some people have about his endings.
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Apr 22, 2010 15:12
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Ortsacras posted:Well heck, she hosed a demon, so a demon baby a bit after definitely wouldn't be out of nowhere. I think the bit that sort of came out of nowhere was the demon actually being able to change genders, being the same gypsy or whatever Roland had sex with in the first book, making him the father of said demon baby. It wasn't really foreshadowed from what I remember. And FWIW, I agree Song of Susannah didn't do much in advancing the story, but it was definitely the book I ripped through the quickest. I remember really enjoying the shootout between Roland/Eddie and the gangsters in the general store after they pass through the portal door. lamb SAUCE fucked around with this message at 15:53 on Apr 22, 2010 |
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Apr 22, 2010 15:51
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There were parts of DT7 that were really, really good. I cried like a bitch at Eddie and Oy's deaths. However, when you have a showdown with a god-like being whose reputation has been built up over seven books and all he does is screech "EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!" and throw exploding Harry Potter toys it's a bit of a letdown. The very end, though, I thought was great.
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Apr 22, 2010 18:18
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Chamberk posted:There were parts of DT7 that were really, really good. I cried like a bitch at Eddie and Oy's deaths. However, when you have a showdown with a god-like being whose reputation has been built up over seven books and all he does is screech "EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!" and throw exploding Harry Potter toys it's a bit of a letdown. However, that final showdown would have been a bit better had Roland actually done more to take out the Crimson King than cover this magical mute boy who had to just erase the boss so he was gone. I wanted a much more epic battle with the guy who had been aiming to thwart them along. Disappointing as the first several books where awesome, but it just seemed like the last couple kinda let us down.
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Apr 22, 2010 20:13
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Man I just re-read "The Jaunt." It is... most certainly not the worst thing Stephen King has written. EDIT: Also, because it was "old King" I paid special attention to annoying made up words and/or phrases. The only thing that stood out was the use of "tough titty, as the mother cat said to the kitten" (or something) and it wasn't nearly as gratuitous as some of the crap I've been reading in his recent stuff. DirtyRobot fucked around with this message at 10:55 on Apr 23, 2010 |
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Apr 23, 2010 10:52
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Chamberk posted:To be fair, the man has a gift for creating new and fun ways to curse. I remember reading his books in middle school and becoming excited as soon as he threw out something like "poo poo on a shingle." My favorite (from It, I think) was " He was so full of poo poo he squeaked when turns left." To this day I have no idea what it means but it always cracks me up.
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Apr 24, 2010 08:04
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Chamberk posted:There were parts of DT7 that were really, really good. I cried like a bitch at Eddie and Oy's deaths. However, when you have a showdown with a god-like being whose reputation has been built up over seven books and all he does is screech "EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!" and throw exploding Harry Potter toys it's a bit of a letdown. Was the Crimson King even built up over the whole series? I thought he just came out of nowhere in the 5th book. C'mon, someone make a DT thread with a good OP, mine would suck 
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Apr 24, 2010 15:30
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Pompous Rhombus posted:Was the Crimson King even built up over the whole series? I thought he just came out of nowhere in the 5th book. I think they saw some graffiti on the wall in the 4th that said "Beware the Crimson King" or something.
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Apr 24, 2010 17:25
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When King rewrote the Gunslinger he inserted some references to the Crimson King in it. I think.
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Apr 24, 2010 17:49
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Pompous Rhombus posted:Was the Crimson King even built up over the whole series? I thought he just came out of nowhere in the 5th book. He mentioned him in Insomnia  If I get time tonight, maybe I'll give it a shot. Never written an OP before.
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Apr 24, 2010 20:32
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