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BigKOfJustice posted:Is there a recommendation for a good ratcheting terminal crimper? I had it with the standard stamped metal things. The last one I used couldn't crimp butt connectors properly and actually bent while I was crimping a harness I use greenlee crimps for tnc connectors and they are built well.
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Apr 17, 2010 17:45
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Hope everyone's not tired of crimper discussion...I KNOW I'M NOT. I did some more testing with the HF tool. If any die cavity was going to gently caress up it was the blue one because it was significantly oversize. I decided I'd use the 16AWG wire and used some tin coasted, shielded, quality wire with 3 Thomas and Betts ring terminals. Testing device in this (and all the other tests) was an Alphatron MPT-250B. I used a Milspec die stripper and ideal cutters so again this is a very good conditions type test in terms of quality of materials used. Results: The tensile test values were 44.6, 54.4 and 37.8. Conclusions: You may recall the yellow terminals on the 10 gauge were all >150lbs which is within milspec. These fell below Milspec (which was 50lbs) but did stay above UL which is 30lbs. Testing needs to be done on the cheap quality of wire and terminals I tend to use at home. Given these results I would feel comfortable using the tools with quality components on automotive stuff for sure. Also we should make a buy, do not buy list for harbor freight and other tools. AnomalousBoners fucked around with this message at 20:26 on Apr 19, 2010 |
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Apr 19, 2010 20:04
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RealKyleH posted:Also we should make a buy, do not buy list for harbor freight and other tools. I haven't bought a poo poo-ton of stuff there, but from what I've bought, here's my Buy/Avoid list from the stuff I've bought that stands out: BUY
DON'T BUY
Jared592 fucked around with this message at 20:52 on Apr 19, 2010 |
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Apr 19, 2010 20:24
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The Op of this thread has been gone a little while however its still good. If it dies off a page or two I'll make a new one and include updates as the thread progresses.
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Apr 19, 2010 20:27
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I would add to the buy list: - Breaker bars - Clicky torque wrenches (not for mission critical stuff) - LED head lamp (usually under $3)
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Apr 20, 2010 03:48
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So, uh, do any of you fabricating guys want to talk welders? Long story short I'm looking to *learn* how to weld, learning being key. I've been reading books and the first thing they said to get is an oxy-acetylene kit and learn how to burn it, then worry about MIG/TIG/Arc and all that wonderful electricity stuff. I went down to the LWS today and talked to them about buying or leasing tanks. They told me that I should buy as a private user due to security deposits being the price of a tank, so I asked them how much for small oxygen and acetylene tanks. $200 loving dollars a piece. When I sat down and did the numbers I realized that I would have to buy 2 tanks ($400 not including the state's tax) then a torch kit on top of that (another $200 for a kit that isn't a horrid piece of poo poo). So I'm up to about $600, which puts me right in the territory to get one of these: http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200328799_200328799 A Hobart Handler 187 that can weld drat near anything I could ever want welded. I had a conversation with an old timer at the LWS who basically told me that nobody uses oxy-acetylene anymore and that I should "get a MIG and never look back". However, I'm reminded of the lessons in the books and the other uses for oxy-fuel kits such as cutting and brazing. So long story short I'm kind of stuck on what I should pursue as a first tool to learn how to weld. I'm told that MIG is the easiest (hot glue gun for metal as it was explained to me) and will get me up and running in no time. However, I was also told that oxy-fuel kits are harder to learn on but 1) give you the skills necessary for TIG which is the ~gentleman's way to weld~ and 2) teach you how to properly control puddles and know what a good weld looks like so you know when your MIG's loving up. Then again, oxy-fuel apparently isn't good for welding on actual car/truck frames, and I should own a MIG for this. So for a guy who wants to gently caress around and build bumpers and poo poo for his brother's Jeep and just learn the mystery of metal shaping in general, what do you guys suggest as a first step?
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Apr 21, 2010 00:56
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MIG is easily the best for automotive. O/A tends to be much cheaper You can also do things with O/A that you cant with that MIG plus you should get an argon tank for that anyway. O/A lets you do a variety of metals and though its slower it can produce very very nice results. You would also need A/C to properly weld aluminum despite what Hobart says.
AnomalousBoners fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Apr 21, 2010 |
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Apr 21, 2010 01:18
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Ripoff posted:So for a guy who wants to gently caress around and build bumpers and poo poo for his brother's Jeep and just learn the mystery of metal shaping in general, what do you guys suggest as a first step? Go MIG and don't look back. The oxy setup would be nice for cutting out your patterns and stuff, but you can do that with a cutoff wheel too. MIG is more useful for your stated purposes.
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Apr 21, 2010 02:25
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RealKyleH posted:You can tell if they're exactly the same by pulling the die sets, the HF ones are stamped with the mfg name. Even though I work for DMC my interest is providing good info. The tests where it was sorta optimal conditions turned out very well. Next I'll check some that aren't and hopefully they'll perform as well. How would I go about figuring out what the correct dieset is? I'd like to get a better crimper for the office, and relegate my OTC and HF crimpers to the field-splice bags. And Ripoff, buy a drat MIG. Check CL, and ask your LWS what they have in the used equipment pool. $500 will get you a nice machine in the 180 amp range. sharkytm fucked around with this message at 02:36 on Apr 21, 2010 |
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Apr 21, 2010 02:32
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You can call or check the link below. We have diesets for most anything if not for the DCT4 then for one of our tools. For RBY Insulated Terminals its a DCT4-102. There's also the GMT232 for that as a tool dedicated to that purpose which has some more paperwork behind it. (M22520/37) http://www.dmctools.com/assets/DCT4-102_ds.pdf Update on the HF tool: I crimped some crap wire and ring terminals. Well see how it does tomorrow maybe. AnomalousBoners fucked around with this message at 03:09 on Apr 21, 2010 |
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Apr 21, 2010 03:03
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Buy list: -LOCKING OIL FILTER WRENCH (Best $10 ever, was the only thing that got my oil filter off from the P/O) -Die grinder -HF Racing Rapid Pump jack -Steel Digital Calipers -Auto Darkening Welding Helmet -Electronic Ear Muffs -Movers Dolly -$10 52 piece tool kit. Bought one, threw the SAE ones in a bag to save some weight and carry these in my car. Def come in handy at car meets or on the side of the road as emergency tools. -Socket organizer (Make sure to tape this down in your box. Don't jam sockets in. Stack two of them up for tall sockets. -Performance clock, good for the garage, bad for the room. Ticks loudly. -Machinist magnetic base -1" travel indicator -Magnetic worklight (is awesome on my lathe) -HF red bandsaw (haven't used this that much but its been a good value and very helpful when I did) -Blue and red folding box cutters work awesome even for daily use. I use them over the Stanley plastic ones I had and I cut a lot of boxes. -Blue "Drill Master" 4.5" angle grinder. Not as ballsy as a pricey one but I paid $10 for it and its gotten more use than anything but my ratchets. Never had a problem with it. -Blue Nitrile gloves - not great quality, but worth the price over latex -Set of 3 jaw pulley pullers - got the job done Do not buy: -Fuses, I bought some and they were recalled. Will not buy again. This was before I knew things about electrical stuff. I no longer dick around with electrical stuff. -Drill Bits - They suck, the TiN coatings suck. Get a set of rigid cobalt bits, theyre not that expensive, for general use. -12V rotary kit - This is only good for deburring holes. Do not plan on doing any grinding with it. -Thumb ratchets - Very hard to turn, poorly designed. A bath in ATF didnt help smoothness like it does some. -Punches, some of the smaller ones broke though that's pretty common. Still it broke so eh maybe upgrade. -Test light - super thing wire broke very quickly. Worthless. -18 Volt Cordless 4 Tool Combo Pack- BEYOND WORTHLESS wouldnt cut lovely rotting plywood. -Latex gloves - tear very easily. Get the blue nitrile. AnomalousBoners fucked around with this message at 05:47 on Apr 22, 2010 |
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Apr 21, 2010 03:17
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sharkytm posted:And Ripoff, buy a drat MIG. Check CL, and ask your LWS what they have in the used equipment pool. $500 will get you a nice machine in the 180 amp range. Yeah I guess MIG's the way to go first, then o/a later. Also CL's been a huge bust so far - you either have guys pawning off rust-covered machines 30+ years old (oldest I've seen was one from the late 40's which the owner claimed "still works") or they have a Millermatic or something that they're selling for $50 less than retail, "with only a few hours on it". At that point I might as well buy a Hobart brand-new and get the warranty. However I haven't been cruising the LWS for used equipment, though. That sounds like a really good idea. Thanks to everyone who responded quickly. 
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Apr 21, 2010 04:07
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I think we need 3 categories for the HF list. The Good(tools that are basically as good as the costlier versions), the Bad(tools that suck and break and make you angry you ever bought them), and the Ugly(tools that are cheap crap, but work well enough). The Good: Extend-able ratchet. The 1/2" model works great as well. Cut-off discs for grinder. This style, with the blue/silver label. Hobby vise. The vacuum is kinda crap, but the base is stable enough without it. Battery trickle charger. Green/gray and orange/gray handled screw drivers. Any of the magnetic trays. Extension cords. The Bad: Any air compressor. Tap and die sets. (spark plug chaser is the one exception) Open end wrenches, including flare nut wrenches. Zip ties. Any of the diamond files, cutters, etc. Any of the electrical connectors. The Ugly: Engine Hoist. Requires some modification to lift straight. Hydraulics don't last as long as they should. Any of their shop presses, except the air powered ones. Any trailer hitch equipment. Rated weights are really low for the sizing, but they're fine for light trailers. Pry bar 4 pack. Handy sizes, light weight, but bend too easily.
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Apr 21, 2010 05:26
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How do you gently caress up zip ties?
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Apr 21, 2010 08:24
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Uthor posted:How do you gently caress up zip ties? Seriously, I have a bunch of stuff zipped up with HF ties and they've been like that for 3 years. What's so bad about them?
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Apr 21, 2010 08:31
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Rhyno posted:Seriously, I have a bunch of stuff zipped up with HF ties and they've been like that for 3 years. What's so bad about them? It depends on the batch, but I've gotten ones that didn't have holes molded in the heads, they were solid.... and useless because of it. Other times, they have been fine. I just buy bags of 1000 at home depot now.
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Apr 21, 2010 11:21
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Ripoff posted:The Hobart Handler 187 will work fine for you. Stick to Lincoln, Miller, Hobart, or ESAB equipment. Avoid Chinese temptresses. For automotive uses, oxy-acetylene and stick welding is almost useless to you, however, you will occasionaly use a cutting torch on a stubborn bolt or want to braze something. I use a torch all the loving time at my shop, but not for automtive purposes. If you are doing alot of sheetmetal fabrication, a plasma cutter will be more useful then a torch. Also, when welding sheet metal, those clamp devices that have copper backstops are a life saver sometimes. Oh and if you want to be good at welding... PRACTICE!
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Apr 21, 2010 13:59
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Uthor posted:How do you gently caress up zip ties? I've had a lot of them where the plastic was too brittle and the little locking tab snapped off. This has only really been a problem with the larger sizes, but I just buy elsewhere now.
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Apr 21, 2010 17:10
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Ripoff posted:So, uh, do any of you fabricating guys want to talk welders? I'm in the same boat, looking at welding for motorcycle stuff more than car stuff, but eventually I'll be doing automotive welding, too. Projects I would be welding: sidecar frames, sidecar mounts, motorcycle luggage racks, rust repairs on a 70s Mopar. Thoughts on the Millermatic 211? Spendier than the Handler 187 but I have 220v and like the option of being able to use 110 if I gotta bring it somewhere else.
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Apr 21, 2010 17:48
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Skier posted:I'm in the same boat, looking at welding for motorcycle stuff more than car stuff, but eventually I'll be doing automotive welding, too. In machinist school we built an entire custom chopper including bending our own tubing for the frame and making our own oil/fuel tanks using a tig and O/A and they only place we were limited due to space/it being annoying was tacking up the exhaust and thats mostly cause I was a new welder at the time. (Id prob still gently caress it up in retrospect) Part of the reason MIG is a big advantage for cars versus bikes is the fact that often you CANT get good fitment/position on cars when it comes to replacing old parts. On motorcycles and fabrication projects TIG starts to be a good choice. Just something to consider.
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Apr 21, 2010 17:56
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In addition to what RealKyleH said, consider the type of material you're going to be welding. If you're primarily welding aluminum or stainless, get the TIG. That said, the 211 is a quality welder that will last you the rest of your life and handle any project you're likely to encounter in your home shop.
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Apr 21, 2010 19:01
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The only aluminum bits that I might weld are the luggage racks and I can always make those out of different materials. If I ever really really needed to weld aluminum, I would try the spool gun for the 211. I just don't see myself welding enough to justify a TIG welder's higher price and longer learning curve. They appear to be much harder to correctly use than a MIG, especially for a newbie. My goal is to buy once and buy right. If I had easier access to welding classes I would be leaning towards a TIG, but that's not in the cards at the moment.
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Apr 21, 2010 19:08
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sharkytm posted:It depends on the batch, but I've gotten ones that didn't have holes molded in the heads, they were solid.... and useless because of it. Other times, they have been fine. I just buy bags of 1000 at home depot now. I got a big bag of the colored ones from there and they were garbage. Mine actually had holes in the head and threads on the strips, but they were so brittle that if you tried to tighten them down more than halfway down the strip, even without anything in them, the heads just snap off. Total poo poo.
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Apr 21, 2010 19:47
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Best zip ties I had were MIL Spec / SAE certified ones like from Norco and other companies. They held up on the few trucks I've worked on for 10 years of UV exposure, salt water exposure and heat. Heck I think even the home depot ones say they meat MIL/SAE specifications on the back of them.
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Apr 21, 2010 20:21
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Speaking of zip ties, has anyone used those stainless steel cable ties and NOT cut the poo poo of their hands? I have yet to successfully tighten one of the harbor freight ones, and was left bloodied in my attempts. Has anyone successfully used these or is it just Harbor Freight quality cutting me to pieces? These: 
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Apr 21, 2010 20:39
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I hope I am not boring anyone with all my wire talk. This is the best thread. I did a bit more testing with the HF crimpers and the tests went very poorly. I crimped some unbranded (probably wal-mart or HF) wire and some unknown ring terminals. I had three blues with 16 gauge in them and one yellow with 10 gauge. The first two blue/16AWG tests were somewhat null and void. In both instances the insulation started to slip off the wire and in one of those it tore the wire at a quite low tensile. The 16 gauge that I got a decent grip on pulled out at 30lbs which is the BARE MINIMUM for UL which is the lower of the two standards. The 10 gauge pulled out at 75lbs which is HALF of what the UL listed terminals with milspec wire accomplished. Sure two tests is nothing to base hard hitting conclusions on but holy poo poo. From MilSpec to below UL? Needless to say more testing should be done and that we may need to spend a few extra $ and buy branded UL listed terminals and wire. I'll try to figure out how to do splices in the fixtures we have too since that's a popular solution. Ill try some more blues as I am pretty sure I have plenty of them at the house and I have plenty of that wire which I also may top using as the wire sheathing slipped off at 15 pounds of force. Suffice it to say I don't think Ill be using those terminals and wire if they trend those same values. There are plenty of ways where in automotive applications a wire could have 15 pounds of force put on it for a short period of time. Our cars could catch fire because we saved $5 by buying cheap wire Now I know that sounded very conclusive, but take it with a grain of salt because more testing should be done. We'll see if the results improve. Jared592 posted:Speaking of zip ties, has anyone used those stainless steel cable ties and NOT cut the poo poo of their hands? I have yet to successfully tighten one of the harbor freight ones, and was left bloodied in my attempts. Has anyone successfully used these or is it just Harbor Freight quality cutting me to pieces? I sold Chinese ones with header wrap when I ran my turbo parts business and I have wrapped friends exhaust and headers without any problems. Maybe check ebay? How many and how long do you need I could sell them to you reasonably if you wanted. BigKOfJustice posted:Best zip ties I had were MIL Spec / SAE certified ones like from Norco and other companies. They held up on the few trucks I've worked on for 10 years of UV exposure, salt water exposure and heat. There's a difference in "meeting the spec" and being qualified to it. Any idea what the spec number on the package was (e.g. MIL-DTL-22520 or AS22520 for hand crimping tools)? I can often lookup what companies are qualified to certain products. AnomalousBoners fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Apr 21, 2010 |
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Apr 21, 2010 20:44
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Jared592 posted:Speaking of zip ties, has anyone used those stainless steel cable ties and NOT cut the poo poo of their hands? I have yet to successfully tighten one of the harbor freight ones, and was left bloodied in my attempts. Has anyone successfully used these or is it just Harbor Freight quality cutting me to pieces? Wear gloves you dope.
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Apr 21, 2010 20:51
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frozenphil posted:Wear gloves you dope. Stainless steel zip ties Just as well a cheese grater Where'd I put the gauze!?
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Apr 21, 2010 21:02
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RealKyleH posted:There's a difference in "meeting the spec" and being qualified to it. Any idea what the spec number on the package was (e.g. MIL-DTL-22520 or AS22520 for hand crimping tools)? I can often lookup what companies are qualified to certain products. I'll look it up this weekend when I pull my tools and parts out.
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Apr 22, 2010 00:08
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Ånd my boss bitches when I spend the $10 on UL-listed, ABYC-Approved marine grade wire... I've yet to have a crimp fail when using the HF/OTC/Anchor tool, and good wire. That said, I solder and double-adhesive-lined heatshrink all my bilge pump wiring. I don't trust crimps as much as solder and lots of heatshrink.
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Apr 22, 2010 01:48
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sharkytm posted:That said, I solder and double-adhesive-lined heatshrink all my bilge pump wiring. I don't trust crimps as much as solder and lots of heatshrink. Solder joints don't like prolonged vibration. NASA uses crimps for wiring, the military uses crimps for wiring. I'd hope they know their poo poo.
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Apr 22, 2010 01:50
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I did some tensile testing on 8AWG-4/0 with a Hydraulic crimp tool and regular Ill do some mroe cheap terminal testing and post up the results for your boss to see. Keep in mind the blue cavity in the HF tool was oversize compared to another higher quality commercial tool. EDIT: It was a hex cavity die set. AnomalousBoners fucked around with this message at 05:48 on Apr 22, 2010 |
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Apr 22, 2010 01:58
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Speaking of welding machines, I just wanted to say something: Welding machines are like potato chips... you can't have just ONE. The fact of the matter is you need more then one, it's just a matter of one which do you want to buy first. There are two types of welding power supplies, Constant Current, and Constant Voltage. MIG and Flux core need CV. TIG and Stick use CC. For most auto guys MIG is the best choice to start with, and then add TIG as your needs require. If you get the itch to burn some 6011 or 7018, your TIG machine will do that too. Just plan to budget in the future for all 4 setups: MIG, TIG/stick, torch, and plasma cutter, because I can garuntee once you buy one, it's only a matter of time till the rest sit in your shop. Once you spend some money on something, you've just commited 5+ figures in future expenses. Think of it like getting married, only you actually get to play with the toys afterwards. oxbrain posted:Solder joints don't like prolonged vibration. NASA uses crimps for wiring, the military uses crimps for wiring. I'd hope they know their poo poo. AbsentMindedWelder fucked around with this message at 03:05 on Apr 22, 2010 |
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Apr 22, 2010 02:19
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Good HF Items: Black 4-drawer tool chest/cart - Holds everything and under $100 Locking oil filter pliers - Takes off filters put on by even the angriest people 1/2" Breaker Bar - Changed a tire with it once during a snowstorm for a damsel in distress. I lost the breaker bar when it got snowed over, I went back weeks later when the snow melted and picked it up. No rust and it still works great. 1/2" Torque wrench - Great for lug nuts. 3/8" and 1/2" Extendable ratchets - These own Impact sockets Orange angle grinder, with the cutoff discs made of asbestos by the Russians Free flashlights Nitrile gloves Magnetic trays and grabber Jack stands, jack pads Big rubber wheel chocks - horrid chinese rubber smell like their mallets, but possibly keeps one's self from being murdered by a 1986 Subaru Bad: Anything that spins fast and costs less than $50, other than grinders and maybe some air tools. Regular sockets and open end wrenches have poor fastener fitment 3/8" and 1/4" click torque wrenches - never had good luck with these. The zipties don't like to be fastened in temperatures under 30 degrees Fahrenheit. Cheapo pickle fork- bent after first use. But then again, I did use my jack handle as a 4 foot cheater pipe on it. HF seems to be in a position to dominate Sears' tool sales and the ones I frequent are always packed (with people wanting free flashlights). HF is advertising in the Wall Street Journal now, which may or may not be an indicator of the quality of that newspaper.
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Apr 22, 2010 05:14
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MATLAB 1988 posted:Anything that spins fast and costs less than $50, other than grinders and maybe some air tools. I've said it before and I'll say it again; this http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=45252 is BAD rear end for the price.
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Apr 22, 2010 05:32
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Aceshighxxx posted:I've said it before and I'll say it again; this It's on sale in the store AND they let you use the 20% off coupon on it.
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Apr 22, 2010 06:02
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Any experience with this guy? Good build quality, etc? Click here for the full 652x750 image. Also, what do I want to get for oil filter wrenches? I like these in concept, but how well do they work?  Click here for the full 750x675 image. Would I be better off with the strap-type, cup-type, or channel-lock type?
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Apr 22, 2010 06:16
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Comradephate posted:Any experience with this guy? Good build quality, etc? Get the one I suggested in my hf suggestion list and be done. I have tried many types, they cant be beaten, only matched.
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Apr 22, 2010 06:24
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dv6speed posted:Speaking of welding machines, I just wanted to say something:  As long as I know this and the wife doesn't, it's fine.
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Apr 22, 2010 06:42
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RealKyleH posted:I work for DMC and can highly highly recommend the DMC DCT4 series. If you need one for R/B/Y teminals its the DCT4-102. They have a very strong frame and all the dims gaged right on (+/- .001 or less). The crimp cavities are also less likely to get stuck on shielded terminals because they aren't simply round like the HF tool. I don't think I am allowed to say anything about numbers until they are published but suffice it to say they can last a long time even used daily. Jumping back to this post, I went ahead and ordered the DCT4 from DMC today. Does DMC make any tools for crimping/disassembling weatherpak connectors?
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Apr 22, 2010 18:38
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