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Suave posted:http://www.autoobserver.com/2010/05/whats-wrong-at-honda-maybe-everything.html It's signs that the public image pendulum is swinging away from the Japanese masters.
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May 27, 2010 07:26
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Are they referring to the small capacity turbocharged Cruze (getting 40MPG I mean)? Because the current petrol models we get are utter garbage in the engine department (and pretty much everywhere else for that matter). Also I don't see how its fair to compare a Fiesta to a Civic.
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May 27, 2010 08:43
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(It's a 2008 article, but it still fits here, and it's almost 2011) http://www.leftlanenews.com/abarth-2011.html This had better come true. Lotus chassis, Fiat drivetrain and Abarth madness? YES PLEASE! KozmoNaut fucked around with this message at 08:48 on May 27, 2010 |
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May 27, 2010 08:45
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dissss posted:Also I don't see how its fair to compare a Fiesta to a Civic. It's conceivable that a person might look at the Fiesta, the Fit, and the Civic when deciding on a car. Though the Civic would have to be a base model. I think the article was just saying that the Fiesta is shaping up to be a car that people want, while Honda fears the new Civic won't have that pull.
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May 27, 2010 08:55
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kimbo305 posted:It's conceivable that a person might look at the Fiesta, the Fit, and the Civic when deciding on a car. Maybe, but that doesn't mean they're natural competitors. Honda shouldn't be worrying about cars in other classes when designing a new Civic.
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May 27, 2010 09:18
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The new Focus is probably going to kick the poo poo out of everything in the segment.
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May 27, 2010 14:31
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This inevitably happens to all market leaders at one point or another. You could kind of see it coming when they killed the Integra back in 2006. The company in general has lost its focus on what made them great in the first place.
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May 27, 2010 14:49
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I honestly think that Hyundai has taken over the roles that Honda and Toyota have played in the past; value-packed vehicles that compete with vehicles thousands of dollars more expensive.
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May 27, 2010 17:28
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travisray2004 posted:I honestly think that Hyundai has taken over the roles that Honda and Toyota have played in the past; value-packed vehicles that compete with vehicles thousands of dollars more expensive. Bingo. Honda's looking at the Sonata/Elantra, seeing the awards they're getting, seeing the value they hold, looking at the warranty which they don't compete with, seeing Hyundai sitting above them in JD Power's quality and reliability ratings, and seeing the dollar sign next to ALL of that and are making GBS threads themselves. Plus it's no secret that people have found their styling cues for the past decade in both Acura and Honda to be across the board boring and Honda's gotta be worried. I've said for years that Honda's been living off their reputation and it's finally caught up to them. They're gonna have to really pick up their socks and start learning how to compete if they don't want to be left behind.
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May 27, 2010 18:06
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Honda's been quite successful in the past so there's no reason to be doom-and-glooming about the company right now. They need to up their compete level, but they've shown the ability to do that in the past, and if the corporate culture isn't totally hosed, they'll be OK. If anything, I'd say this is a huge positive for Honda (delaying the new Civic) because it shows that they're actually taking their problems seriously rather than rolling out something good-but-not-great.
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May 27, 2010 18:30
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I can think of pretty obvious improvements to make to the Civic Si in order to have it start approaching the (frankly ridiculous) premium MSRP. Less weight, a better suspension setup, a stronger gearbox, more distinctive styling. These are things that would make it still hold its own against the more powerful (and frequently cheaper) turbos. I dunno what they could really improve in the "civilian" model in order to make it compete better with the Hyundai econoboxes, though. Certainly fuel economy (direct injection!) would be a step in the right direction, but I'm not seeing much wrong with the base model Civic's offerings other than price and styling. They should also consider fixing the atrocious UFO dashboard from the Fit. Maybe someone should check on Acura and make sure they haven't accidentally hired a blind person in their styling department, too. edit: I just went to the Honda website to do a "build your own." Perhaps they should consider offering the Si coupe in red. edit 2: While we're on the subject, what the gently caress is Nissan doing? Seat Safety Switch fucked around with this message at 18:40 on May 27, 2010 |
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May 27, 2010 18:34
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Suave posted:http://www.autoobserver.com/2010/05/whats-wrong-at-honda-maybe-everything.html Is the current civic poorly rated? I've never been in the market so I've never cross shopped it with anything, but I've spent a lot of time in the current model and I think it's great.
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May 27, 2010 18:44
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ynotony posted:Is the current civic poorly rated? I've never been in the market so I've never cross shopped it with anything, but I've spent a lot of time in the current model and I think it's great. If it's anything like my '09 Accord it should be poorly rated if it isn't. This car has really soured me on Hondas.
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May 27, 2010 19:17
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:If anything, I'd say this is a huge positive for Honda (delaying the new Civic) because it shows that they're actually taking their problems seriously rather than rolling out something good-but-not-great. Obviously the pipeline for designing a new car is very long, but they had very clear goals at the outset and still turned out something quite milquetoast.
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May 27, 2010 20:48
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The new Accords/TLs are a travesty to the Honda name tag. They both look bloated and loving outrageously big. But the last gen civic was a success to say the least. And to the guy that mentioned offering the SI in red, dealerships haven't even been able to order SI's for months now. Seriously call your Honda dealer and ask them about the Si's and they will tell you they can't even get them. Killing off the RSX just because they thought it would take market share from the SI was stupid, they should have just bumped up the RSX in price and added more features. Also, I would say Nissan's future looks without a doubt more doom and gloom than Honda's.
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May 27, 2010 21:32
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Kyoon is probably right. Between the Focus and the Fiesta Ford is going to leave Honda, Toyota and Nissan in the dust.
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May 27, 2010 21:44
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Suave posted:Also, I would say Nissan's future looks without a doubt more doom and gloom than Honda's.  . The only thing they have going for them is their pickups, but those aren't exactly top of the market these days, and if the woes of the Big Three have taught us anything, it's that trucks can't carry an entire automaker.Anyway, Ford is becoming a force to be reckoned with, and most other automakers will be playing catch-up with them pretty soon, if not already.
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May 27, 2010 21:46
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All I have to say on this topic is that I haven't really been impressed with anything Honda in a couple years, Toyota in at least a decade but within the past year or two Ford has surprised the poo poo out of me. I have never wanted a Ford more (especially a Mustang or Focus).
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May 27, 2010 22:36
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Rhyno posted:Kyoon is probably right. Between the Focus and the Fiesta Ford is going to leave Honda, Toyota and Nissan in the dust. In the words of the zen master - we'll see. The newest Fiesta has been available for some time here and its hardly kicking rear end in that segment. Yes its a great little car, but its not packaged nearly as well as a Jazz/Fit, doesn't have the combination of cutesy looks and cheap prices of the Suzuki Swift nor the perceived build quality and fancy gearbox of the newer VW Polos. Nissan is a strange one. They lack anything compelling in the small car market (they've even replaced the Sentra with a hideous Dodge Calibur type crossover here) but I don't see there is anything necessarily wrong with their larger cars.
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May 27, 2010 23:45
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dissss posted:The newest Fiesta has been available for some time here and its hardly kicking rear end in that segment. Yes its a great little car, but its not packaged nearly as well as a Jazz/Fit, doesn't have the combination of cutesy looks and cheap prices of the Suzuki Swift nor the perceived build quality and fancy gearbox of the newer VW Polos. We don't even get the Swift or Polo here, so it only has to outshine the mediocre subcompacts here, and the Fit. Are the 2nd gen Fits selling as well as the first gen in the US?
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May 27, 2010 23:50
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dissss posted:In the words of the zen master - we'll see. Actually, it will have the fancy gearbox. Fancier than the VWs, even. The first batch out of the gate didn't. The 6 speed DSG will give it a significant fuel economy advantage over the Fit and Yaris. It's also selling tremendously well - over 500,000 global sales in the first year and will probably overtake the Golf as the best selling car in the EU this year. Maybe it doesn't sell well in NZ for the same reason it won't sell well in the US - Americans and New Zealanders don't want small cars, they want ever larger cars with ever larger V8s. Throatwarbler fucked around with this message at 00:00 on May 28, 2010 |
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May 27, 2010 23:58
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Throatwarbler posted:Actually, it will have the fancy gearbox. Fancier than the VWs, even. The first batch out of the gate didn't. The 6 speed DSG will give it a significant fuel economy advantage over the Fit and Yaris. It's not quite as feature fancy because it won't offer paddle shifting. Jack Baruth said he didn't feel like it was missing the paddles, though.
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May 28, 2010 00:00
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Throatwarbler posted:Maybe it doesn't sell well in NZ for the same reason it won't sell well in the US - Americans and New Zealanders don't want small cars, they want ever larger cars with ever larger V8s. I guess its all about market positioning and final specification. In the USA the Fiesta should slot in a little below the Fit in price correct (With the cheaper options being quite terrible)? Here its close enough to the Fit that many would rather choose that because its basically turns into a small van, and for now the auto Fiesta is crippled with a four speed auto and comparatively crappy 1.4 (meaning fuel economy is the same as an auto Fit). Meanwhile the Swift takes most of the small car sales by virtue of the base being a few thousand cheaper than anything else (well aside from the crappy Barina/Aveo) and the Sport model costing about the same as a Fiesta/Mazda 2/Fit and being better to drive.
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May 28, 2010 00:21
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:The new Focus is probably going to kick the poo poo out of everything in the segment. I can't WAIT for this car.
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May 28, 2010 00:23
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If ford releases a performance version of the Focus I will buy it over an SI. I assume they will both be hitting the market around the same time.
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May 28, 2010 00:27
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Suave posted:If ford releases a performance version of the Focus I will buy it over an SI. I assume they will both be hitting the market around the same time. We've already been told that we're getting the RS "to use as marketing assets for feedback from enthusiasts" by Jost Capito, head of Ford Global Performance. With Mulally wanting to unify Ford's global brands and the base Mustang making 300hp, I don't see a good reason to not bring the RS to the US anymore.
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May 28, 2010 05:04
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frozenphil posted:With Mulally wanting to unify Ford's global brands and the base Mustang making 300hp, I don't see a good reason to not bring the RS to the US anymore. Yeah. I don't know if the Focus RS would ever have cannibalized Mustang sales, but at least the 412 underrated hp is a helpful differentiator now.
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May 28, 2010 05:08
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kimbo305 posted:Yeah. I don't know if the Focus RS would ever have cannibalized Mustang sales, but at least the 412 underrated hp is a helpful differentiator now.
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May 28, 2010 05:45
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Left Ventricle posted:Will it still have the turbo five now that Volvo's been sold off? I assume Ford put in enough development on that motor to call it their own. I'm not familiar with the terms of the IP aspect of the sale to Geely. e: 2 days late, but I hate typos. kimbo305 fucked around with this message at 21:14 on May 29, 2010 |
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May 28, 2010 06:02
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dissss posted:Here its close enough to the Fit that many would rather choose that because its basically turns into a small van, and for now the auto Fiesta is crippled with a four speed auto and comparatively crappy 1.4 (meaning fuel economy is the same as an auto Fit). The North American Fiesta only comes with the excellent 1.6l Ti-VCT engine and either a 6 manual or a 6 speed dry clutch DSG, its VASTLY superior to Fit 1.5l with an old school 5 speed slushbox. Also the US Fiesta has SYNC which currently isn't available on overseas models, has far better fuel economy and a much lower price with more standard equipment thanks to lower costs being built in Mexico vs Japan.
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May 28, 2010 06:17
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Left Ventricle posted:Will it still have the turbo five now that Volvo's been sold off?
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May 28, 2010 06:19
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Wankie posted:The North American Fiesta only comes with the excellent 1.6l Ti-VCT engine and either a 6 manual or a 6 speed dry clutch DSG, its VASTLY superior to Fit 1.5l with an old school 5 speed slushbox. Also the US Fiesta has SYNC which currently isn't available on overseas models, has far better fuel economy and a much lower price with more standard equipment thanks to lower costs being built in Mexico vs Japan. I was excited for the new Mazda 2 but it has a 4 speed auto, no sync, etc. 
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May 28, 2010 07:29
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Wankie posted:The North American Fiesta only comes with the excellent 1.6l Ti-VCT engine and either a 6 manual or a 6 speed dry clutch DSG, its VASTLY superior to Fit 1.5l with an old school 5 speed slushbox. Also the US Fiesta has SYNC which currently isn't available on overseas models, has far better fuel economy and a much lower price with more standard equipment thanks to lower costs being built in Mexico vs Japan. The manual in the Fiesta is a 5 speed. The Fit comes with the 6MT. Honda assembles the Fit in Thailand also, they could match the cost if there was enough demand, there isn't enough demand. Building the Fiesta in Mexico probably has more to do withe Ford's Latin American market.
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May 28, 2010 13:59
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Throatwarbler posted:The manual in the Fiesta is a 5 speed. The Fit comes with the 6MT I agree with the rest of what you said, though.
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May 28, 2010 17:41
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Seat Safety Switch posted:No, I believe the Fit is a 5-speed manual. It turns like four grand in top gear going 100kph. A 6-speed Fit would be pretty keen. Huh. I must have been thinking of the Versa. The Honda Pilot outsold the fit 80k to 67k in 2009. What does it say when even in the best year for subcompacts, your class leading subcompact still can't outsell your largest 3 row SUV? The Pilot isn't even that good - still rocking that old J series V6 and 5 speed auto, with a bland exterior. The Ford Flex and GM's Lambda SUVS all come with DI engines and 6 speed autos standard. I guess the Fiesta will do OK, but subcompacts are a side show of no consequence. They really need to stay focused on their full size SUVs and trucks.
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May 28, 2010 19:26
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Let's see Acura TL ugly as gently caress Acura TSX ugly as gently caress, and they had to add a bigger engine midstream since the four banger wasn't cutting it at in that segment Accord Crosstour ugly as gently caress, not even really advertised since they know it will fail Acura ZDX same story, plus wrong product at the wrong time economy-wise CR-Z ugly as gently caress and not invigorating to drive or great on gas Insight ugly as gently caress plus universally panned in just about every way I would say Honda has lost it. They can get it back. Didn't Toyota delay the last re-design of the Corolla because they knew they had a product that couldn't stand up to the then-new (2006?) Civic? The resulting car wasn't really very compelling in that case. Edit: I have a ratty 1995 Integra and it is still a great car. It has some rust and numerous cosmetic issues, but all the controls are just SO RIGHT. Get back to this Honda.
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May 28, 2010 19:51
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I agree on all points with the exception of the ZDX. That thing is liquid sexy and the interior is stunning as well. But, it came at the wrong time economy wise. It seems to be getting decent reviews also.
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May 28, 2010 21:06
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ynotony posted:Is the current civic poorly rated? I've never been in the market so I've never cross shopped it with anything, but I've spent a lot of time in the current model and I think it's great. It's rated pretty high, but a new one is way too expensive IMO. $25k for a loaded Civic? gently caress no. I've owned an 87 Accord, 94 Civic, 97 Integra, and now an 06 Civic. The engine is bigger and gets better gas milage than my 94 (way, way better), but the interior is cheaper and the paint scratches if you look at it wrong. I really like the way the "spaceship" dashboard looks, and I like all the nooks and crannies you have to store stuff in (around the dash and driver's seat). I get 35mpg driving around town and to work, 33 if I'm in a lot of traffic. I get 38 or 39 on the interstate doing 80mph. My girlfriend has a 2009 Hyundai Elantra, and I briefly considered one of those before buying mine. I just don't like the looks as much, although I'm extremely biased towards Honda.
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May 28, 2010 22:55
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Left Ventricle posted:Will it still have the turbo five now that Volvo's been sold off? The Focus SVT/RS/whatever they call it will most likely have a high power version of Ford's 2.0L EcoBoost 4cyl that should be launching soon. The high-po Fiesta should get the 1.6L version of this engine. Considering the accolades that have been heaped on the EcoBoost V6 these engines should be amazing.
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May 29, 2010 19:43
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Seat Safety Switch posted:No, I believe the Fit is a 5-speed manual. It turns like four grand in top gear going 100kph. A 6-speed Fit would be pretty keen. Low gearing is pretty typical for cars that size. Even with a 6 speed I doubt they'd have made top gear much taller.
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May 30, 2010 01:09
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