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Lykourgos posted:Has anybody used examsoft for the bar? I just got an e-mail for the IL bar asking whether or not I wanted to pay $100 for the honour of taking the bar on my laptop. Is it worth $100? What is it like? It's not worth $100, but at least in Oregon it was the only option if you wanted to take it on a computer. If you feel comfortable writing out essays, don't bother. It is (relatively) nice software though and makes the essays a bit less stressful; of course, that's replaced by the stress of worrying whether this is the one time your laptop won't work.
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May 28, 2010 02:04
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TyChan posted:I didn't know they reached into summer associates too. We had two - one for 1Ls and one for 2Ls. I know the 2L one was firm specific and people usually came from pretty good schools. The 1L program is through the Bar of the City of New York’s Minority Fellowship Program, or something similar, and the 1Ls chosen for my firm were from Cardozo and Hofstra.
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May 28, 2010 02:10
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Yojimbo Sancho posted:It truly is an amazing thing! Join us...join us...no bar exam...join us... Maybe not for you, I would probably be coming back to Minnesota anyway afterward. I'm a former sconnie expat Minnesotan and, well... I take back everything bad I said about Minnesota as a kid in a juvenile desire for state rivalry. Except that it's fucktarded that they play duck-duck-grey duck instead of duck-duck-goose but yeah I may or may not come to Wisconsin b/c I have deferred acceptance there, after my parents, landlady, all my friends, my bank, and my boss, you guys will be the first to know
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May 28, 2010 02:25
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The Warp posted:She's wondering who the gently caress you guys are and where are all the unemployed lawyers you're talking about? She thinks that's there's no harm in going to Western State because she'll get her JD and pass the bar exam like every other lawyer, that they all learn the same damned material and they offered her a really huge scholarship. She thinks that you guys are just saying that she won't have a house by the beach or a cushy corporate firm, but I don't think she understands that it's more dire than that. There was a research paper published recently that discussed whether going to law school was a sound investment. Google that, and show it to her, because it shows pretty conclusively that her current path is not financially sound.
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May 28, 2010 02:31
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quote:at least she'll have an edge on people with just undergraduate degrees if she has not be a lawyer and just enter the job market. I missed this part of your post the first time I responded to it but NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO, BAD, THIS IS BAD, YOU TELL HER THAT SHE IS WRONG AND STUPID FOR THINKING THIS because I thought so too and it turns out to be completely wrong. I've sent my resume to four non-legal temping agencies and only one has responded to me (and that was to say "sorry, we can't help you"). I've even become desperate and applied for jobs at starbucks and chipotle and borders and I haven't heard a peep from them. Having a law degree gives you a severe disadvantage to undergraduates when applying for non-lawyer jobs, I can't believe how dumb I was for ever thinking otherwise. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if for some jobs, a felony conviction was less of a red flag because at least the ex-con isn't going to quit and run off to become a lawyer a few weeks after you train them
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May 28, 2010 02:37
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The Warp posted:I need to let this sit for a couple of days because now we're just straight up fighting about it. She thinks she has no choice in the matter and that this is what she wants to do, I should just shut up and support her, blah blah. She thinks that it'll be totally fine if she goes to a lovely school, it's fine if she settles, at least she'll have an edge on people with just undergraduate degrees if she has not be a lawyer and just enter the job market. This is getting so stupid. "Yes, all of these guys on this website are just trying to trick and you and I, and they're not really lawyers or students, it's just a vast network of carefully planned trolls with nothing more important to do than to gently caress with you all day and night." Let me show you something. Answer this hypothetical honestly. Bloated, fat, disgusting partner is doing your interview. He says that he'll hire you if you go down on him (or her, depending on the opposite of your current sexual preference.) Do you do it? I'd think about it. I'd eat it like it were loving candy if it were a 3 year contract at pre-crash rates for big firm associates. G-Mawwwwwww fucked around with this message at 02:43 on May 28, 2010 |
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May 28, 2010 02:40
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The Warp posted:She's wondering who the gently caress you guys are and where are all the unemployed lawyers you're talking about? She thinks that's there's no harm in going to Western State because she'll get her JD and pass the bar exam like every other lawyer, that they all learn the same damned material and they offered her a really huge scholarship. She thinks that you guys are just saying that she won't have a house by the beach or a cushy corporate firm, but I don't think she understands that it's more dire than that. She should learn to do some loving research. Western State isn't a "new school"- it's a rebranded old school. quote:The American Bar Association (ABA) granted WSU full approval in August 2009. As such, graduates may sit for the bar in all fifty states. So she thinks that going to a school that isn't even ranked by USNWR, and last year, for the first time in its history had a bar passage rate over 75%, is a good plan? When its tuition is roughly equivalent to Loyola Los Angeles? poo poo, Southwestern would be a better choice. Maybe even Whittier. Tell her to get a job in a law firm for a year while she reapplies in October. If she wants to be a lawyer, that's the way to do it. And find out what her LSAT is.
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May 28, 2010 02:44
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Also, you said she had a big scholarship; make sure she reads the fine print on that scholarship because one of the lovely things that poorly ranked schools do is offer a big scholarship, but require you to maintain a certain GPA to keep it. These schools will also implement a brutal curve, which, combined with the arbitrary grading system that all law schools, even good ones use, ensures that some or many students will lose their scholarships and have to pay to stay in school. As hard as it is to back down from going to law school in the first place, it's even harder to drop out once you're already a year or so in, so it's a very risky move.
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May 28, 2010 02:47
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You know what? Your girlfriend has until the fall to withdraw. She should start talking to lawyers, as many as she can, and see what they say. I would put money down that ZERO lawyers tell her to go to WSU. ZERO. if she doesn't like what we're telling her, she needs to go talk to local attorneys, friends of the family or whatever, because they may feed it to her straight.
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May 28, 2010 02:47
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Ainsley McTree posted:Also, you said she had a big scholarship; make sure she reads the fine print on that scholarship because one of the lovely things that poorly ranked schools do is offer a big scholarship, but require you to maintain a certain GPA to keep it. These schools will also implement a brutal curve, which, combined with the arbitrary grading system that all law schools, even good ones use, ensures that some or many students will lose their scholarships and have to pay to stay in school. As hard as it is to back down from going to law school in the first place, it's even harder to drop out once you're already a year or so in, so it's a very risky move. you need a job
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May 28, 2010 02:49
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real talk ainsley how are you not homeless are you just living with parents or something? where do you get your food?
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May 28, 2010 02:51
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Borrowed way too much student loan money and have been living cheaply I have about a month or so to find a job before I need to ask my parents for help I had some paid internships during law school that helped out quite a bit
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May 28, 2010 02:56
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The Warp posted:She's wondering who the gently caress you guys are and where are all the unemployed lawyers you're talking about? She thinks that's there's no harm in going to Western State because she'll get her JD and pass the bar exam like every other lawyer, that they all learn the same damned material and they offered her a really huge scholarship. She thinks that you guys are just saying that she won't have a house by the beach or a cushy corporate firm, but I don't think she understands that it's more dire than that. I am a practicing lawyer in the State of California. I have a real bar card and everything (I STILL don't have business cards, slow, cheap office). She is welcome to call me, and I will tell her not to go. 100% serious. PM me. She can even call me at my PD office so she knowns I'm a real lawyer, not a troll. I will then pass the phone to my other colleagues who will argue even stronger that she should not go. nm fucked around with this message at 03:16 on May 28, 2010 |
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May 28, 2010 03:13
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billion dollar bitch posted:You went a long way for that one. http://ftp.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F2/531/531.F2d.63.75--1278.304.html Search for "chink in the Chinese wall."
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May 28, 2010 04:05
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Ainsley McTree posted:Borrowed way too much student loan money and have been living cheaply 
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May 28, 2010 04:21
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Lykourgos posted:Has anybody used examsoft for the bar? I just got an e-mail for the IL bar asking whether or not I wanted to pay $100 for the honour of taking the bar on my laptop. Is it worth $100? What is it like? Examsoft is not always stable for people. It has crashed and wiped people's entire work out.
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May 28, 2010 04:51
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Abugadu posted:do you need a manservant
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May 28, 2010 04:59
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The only way Western State even gets its bar passage rate up to the fairly pathetic 75% is by kicking out huge chunks of the class that don't perform well. Probably close to half the people who start there will not end up graduating. About 30% attrition rate 1L year and I'm too lazy to find 2L.
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May 28, 2010 05:04
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Got grades today. Straight loving Bs (and a B+). Best semester yet in law school. Please kill me now.Abugadu posted:So is there liability if people die from 60 year old unexploded ordnance?
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May 28, 2010 05:05
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The Warp posted:She's wondering who the gently caress you guys are and where are all the unemployed lawyers you're talking about? She thinks that's there's no harm in going to Western State because she'll get her JD and pass the bar exam like every other lawyer, that they all learn the same damned material and they offered her a really huge scholarship. She thinks that you guys are just saying that she won't have a house by the beach or a cushy corporate firm, but I don't think she understands that it's more dire than that. The Warp posted:I need to let this sit for a couple of days because now we're just straight up fighting about it. She thinks she has no choice in the matter and that this is what she wants to do, I should just shut up and support her, blah blah. She thinks that it'll be totally fine if she goes to a lovely school, it's fine if she settles, at least she'll have an edge on people with just undergraduate degrees if she has not be a lawyer and just enter the job market.
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May 28, 2010 05:07
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SWATJester posted:Examsoft is not always stable for people. It has crashed and wiped people's entire work out. Dear Lord, the pain. I wonder what usually happens at that point; do you just fail the bar, or do you go into overtime? I reckon I might simply take it by hand really. So glad I found employment, so glad.
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May 28, 2010 05:15
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TheWarp - I was in a very similar situation to your girlfriend (albeit I had a full ride at a much better school). I know how hard it can be to look for something else, or to go back on your plans. Hell, I should've listened to this thread when they told me not to rush the December LSAT when I wasn't ready. I promise I am not a troll. If your girlfriend wants to talk to someone who was in a similar situation and now has an actual job at a respectable organization outside of the legal industry, send me an email or PM and I will tell her (or you) why it is a bad choice to make.
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May 28, 2010 05:18
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Abugadu posted:I know you've answered this question before, but how's the legal economy in Guam right now? Are there opportunities for new graduates?
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May 28, 2010 05:18
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entris posted:There was a research paper published recently that discussed whether going to law school was a sound investment. Google that, and show it to her, because it shows pretty conclusively that her current path is not financially sound. http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1497044
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May 28, 2010 05:19
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Abugadu I went to the Museum of Natural History Guam exhibit. It was beautiful. e: also my cousin graduates from Touro this weekend and got into JAG and his girlfriend is an RN so he emailed me the other day saying "Guam's looking better every day!"
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May 28, 2010 05:22
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Warp, these dudes are lying to you. Being a lawyer is totally sweet. The only real job requirements are a high booze tolerance and the ability to read books. If your girlfriend has that she'll be fine as long as she guts it out.
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May 28, 2010 05:23
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JudicialRestraints posted:Being a lawyer is totally sweet. Definitely true, but on the other hand, she will never experience being a lawyer if she goes to Western.
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May 28, 2010 05:33
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Lykourgos posted:Definitely true, but on the other hand, she will never experience being a lawyer if she goes to Western. She will, and it certainly will require a high booze tolerance, as well as the ability to drive really fast 6 feet behind the bumper of a speeding ambulance.
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May 28, 2010 05:36
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Incredulous Red posted:She will, and it certainly will require a high booze tolerance, as well as the ability to drive really fast 6 feet behind the bumper of a speeding ambulance. is that the statutory limit these days?
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May 28, 2010 05:41
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The Arsteia posted:is that the statutory limit these days? I think that's the rough distance required to (a) still be enough in the ambulance's draft to get pulled along and (b) still be far enough out to spot other accidents that might be more lucrative.
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May 28, 2010 05:47
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I, too, am a (third generation! first generation immigrant!) lawyer. I know Lots and Lots and Lots of other lawyers. If you want my phone number so your girlfriend can call me and I can channel their combined voices at her in one giant NO, feel free.
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May 28, 2010 05:49
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Give me your girlfriend's number, I'll tell her that she should follow dreams. Then I'll try to pick her up using the "I'm in lawschool" line.
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May 28, 2010 05:51
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Ersatz posted:I know you've answered this question before, but how's the legal economy in Guam right now? Are there opportunities for new graduates? It used to be better, it's gotten a little tighter now. You used to have the law clerks in the Superior Court cycling out once a year, but they're signing extended contracts now. What that means is that you need to have passed a bar to get work out here, since the clerk positions were the only ones where you didn't need bar passage for gov. work. Any bar will do, though, even the Wisconsin non-exam bar. Once you have passed a bar, you can work any of the governmental positions for up to 5 years, and you basically have to be convicted of a crime to get fired from any of those positions. Once you pass the Guam bar, there are a decent amount of firms looking for help. Doesn't pay that great, though, until you make partner. I went back to government, and with step increases, will be making the exact same that I made in private practice in about 9 months. Right now there will probably be openings in prosecution, as they're losing 4-5 attorneys in this 2 month period, in an office of 12-13 or so. As for the future, tough to say. Everyone keeps hyping up the military buildup that will accompany the Marines moving 8,000 people here, but who knows what that will mean for legal work, other than an increase in construction law cases and assaults.
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May 28, 2010 05:59
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Does this count as a discriminatory housing ad?quote:I need a room mate. I'm very easy going quite read and play final fantasy 13. I'm looking for a female red hair single smokes pot and will play final fantasy with me. Let me know if your interested. Cats allowed.
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May 28, 2010 06:16
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Incredulous Red posted:Does this count as a discriminatory housing ad? Maybe for craigslist's rules, but I have the vague suspicion that the Fair Housing law doesn't apply to someone who has already rented a place and is just looking for a roommate. Besides, cats allowed.
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May 28, 2010 06:26
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Incredulous Red posted:I think that's the rough distance required to (a) still be enough in the ambulance's draft to get pulled along and (b) still be far enough out to spot other accidents that might be more lucrative. the free market works, people
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May 28, 2010 06:33
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Lykourgos posted:Has anybody used examsoft for the bar? I just got an e-mail for the IL bar asking whether or not I wanted to pay $100 for the honour of taking the bar on my laptop. Is it worth $100? What is it like? I used examsoft for pretty much every one of my law school exams and never had a problem. They had a tutorial that they forced people to perform before every exam session. I still saw a handful of people have major issues on exam day, although they had a default loaner option that wasn't horrible as long as you didn't freak out. I also had to hand write the Illinois bar since I signed up after all the other slots had been filed. I'm a terrible typer so I probably didn't lose much in speed and my sloppy handwriting probably covered up a lot. The way the whole bar exam thing works, I doubt it would actually make much of a difference in the end.
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May 28, 2010 06:40
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Warp, force her to sit down and read the last few pages of this thread. Then have her read the first page. People who think that they need to go to law school RIGHT NOW mystify me. There are so many things to do in the world and going to law school closes off the vast, vast majority of them. I applied a year after I graduated from college, deferred twice, and I still kind of wish I had more time to do other stuff.
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May 28, 2010 06:47
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Abugadu posted:
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May 28, 2010 07:09
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The Warp posted:She thinks that you guys are just saying that she won't have a house by the beach or a cushy corporate firm, but I don't think she understands that it's more dire than that. I graduated from Davis. I have many, many friends who have been unable to find legal employment. Others are killing themselves for it. My buddy graduated middle of the class, and started at a PI/Administrative Defense firm. He was basically an errand boy running all over Northern California working 80 hours a week for less than $40,000/year. No joke. He recently moved to Fresno to work insurance defense instead. Same hours, slightly better pay, but less time sitting in his car. He spends his days doing doc review and dreaming up ways to screw over hurt people. And he lives in loving Fresno. I don't see how your gf can think we're all trying to trick her when there are several articles from mainstream news publications over the last year talking about how lovely the legal job market is. And those articles routinely interview people from (no offense) "real" law schools to illustrate how bad stuff is, not the two diploma mills she's looking at. She is 21. 21. 21. If going to law school right now involves taking on any debt at all, she needs to stay far far away. There will still be law schools around willing to take her money for a diploma when she is 23, or 26, or whenever. She needs to get into a better school, live a little, and not jump into law school when the economy is still in limbo. She sounds a ton like she wants to go NOW because she doesn't know what else she'd do with herself. Getting a minimum wage job that has the slightest bit of fulfilling attributes is a better idea than law school right now. Did she not see today's ATL post? http://abovethelaw.com/2010/05/10-an-hour-for-a-j-d/
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May 28, 2010 07:21
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