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mrtoodles posted:Did she not see today's ATL post? Following that link, I also found another article for our friend: http://abovethelaw.com/2010/05/the-tier-system-within-the-law-school-tiers-according-to-shell-oil/ A job opportunity, but what's this... "To be considered for this position, a candidate graduating from: a tier I law school (rated as being in the top 50 law schools nationally), must have graduated in the top 40%; tier II law schools (51-100) must have graduated in the top 25%; tier III school must have graduated in the top 10%; and a tier IV school must have graduated in the top 5%" What can I say? Up theirs for being shallow, ignorant dickheads, but in any event do not allow your girlfriend to go that t4 law school.
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May 28, 2010 07:53
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I had to google Western State. It's in Fullerton. I was born and raised the next city over and I have never even heard of this school. That can't be a good sign.
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May 28, 2010 08:43
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PatrickKilpatrick posted:I had to google Western State. It's in Fullerton. I was born and raised the next city over and I have never even heard of this school. That can't be a good sign. I took the LSAT there. You have no idea how depressing the campus is.
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May 28, 2010 09:15
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Incredulous Red posted:I took the LSAT there. You have no idea how depressing the campus is. But it's a law school and that has to count for something WHO THE gently caress ARE YOU TO JUDGE??? WHO THE gently caress ARE YOU
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May 28, 2010 10:03
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Another un(legal)employed law grad here. I have a job, but it is the same job I had before and during law school. A job that requires only a 4 year bachelor's degree. A job my boss straight up told me the other day he wouldn't hire me for NOW because now that I have a JD and a law license I am OVERqualified. At our swearing in at the beginning of this month, not a single one of my classmates has a legal job either. One works as a checkout girl at Whole Foods, another is sitting around doing nothing because snowplowing season is over which is what he did last winter. I've made the (alternate) selection list for JAG and had a couple of other interviews but essentially I am right where I began before law school started only now I owe the Federal Government 150k for the pleasure of having attended. And I went to Loyola Chicago, an objectively better law school in an arguably better legal market. Your girlfriend may be dumb for jumping onto a sinking ship, but even dumber would be to blindly follow along behind her when you know the facts. Bottom line is that even if you convince her not to go, she'll always resent you for standing in the way of her "opportunity". When she does go and all of our predictions come horribly true, you'll be the one left holding the bag with a 24 year old unemployable six-figure debt-laden girlfriend who is angry and bitter. It's lose/lose for you dude. Sever! (mixing e/n and a/t a lil here)
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May 28, 2010 13:22
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PatrickKilpatrick posted:I had to google Western State. It's in Fullerton. I was born and raised the next city over and I have never even heard of this school. That can't be a good sign.
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May 28, 2010 14:12
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I love how this thread has devolved into testimonials about unemployment in the legal field. If we keep this up for another two or three pages, this thread is going to become a sucking black hole.
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May 28, 2010 14:21
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Lykourgos posted:Dear Lord, the pain. I wonder what usually happens at that point; do you just fail the bar, or do you go into overtime? I reckon I might simply take it by hand really. Hey in all seriousness you're a smart guy, if you just actually put in some time prepping you'll pass the bar no problem. I'd just hand write it - the $100 to take it on a computer is basically wasted money.
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May 28, 2010 14:33
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entris posted:I love how this thread has devolved into testimonials about unemployment in the legal field. If we keep this up for another two or three pages, this thread is going to become a sucking black hole. As a sucking black hole it will be a good representation of legal education. If I had it all to do over again I wouldn't have gone to law school, which is really motivating me to study for the bar. Arrgh.
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May 28, 2010 14:38
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Normally, this is where I chime in that you can get a job going to a lower-tiered school. I tell everyone how elitist this thread gets sometimes and you shouldn't automatically rule out law school if you can't get into a top school. I stand by that for the most part, while recognizing that getting a job is often (if not always) more difficult at lower-ranked schools. However, I can't even do that in this case because these schools are so bad. That's how bad of an idea this is. Warp, don't let your girlfriend go if you can at all help it! But at some point, you can't force her not to go and she'll have to live with the consequences of her decisions. You will then need to determine whether you're willing to live with them also.
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May 28, 2010 15:01
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Defleshed posted:Bottom line is that even if you convince her not to go, she'll always resent you for standing in the way of her "opportunity". When she does go and all of our predictions come horribly true, you'll be the one left holding the bag with a 24 year old unemployable six-figure debt-laden girlfriend who is angry and bitter. It's lose/lose for you dude. You know, the thing is that there is a remote chance that the market might recover enough that if you time it right, you're the 2L in the best year to be a 2L as law firms are looking for associates they "can" bill out at low rates. Lawyers are the kinds of people who latch on to remote chances, so the objectively low probability of this happening unless you're an expert in economic trends is not a deterrent. This trait actually kind of helps when you're working as a lawyer. Sometimes, you'll have a losing argument and your only remotely colorable argument is a long shot that you have to put forth with extreme conviction. Anything less than a zealot's passion is like the unveiling of the emperor's new clothes. By the way, I checked this Western's tuition rates. $32K a year just for tuition for a low tier law school? Jesus. I think that's even more than I paid for U.Va. as an in-state student. It will probably go up as time goes on too. quepasa18 posted:Normally, this is where I chime in that you can get a job going to a lower-tiered school. I tell everyone how elitist this thread gets sometimes and you shouldn't automatically rule out law school if you can't get into a top school. I stand by that for the most part, while recognizing that getting a job is often (if not always) more difficult at lower-ranked schools. However, I can't even do that in this case because these schools are so bad. That's how bad of an idea this is. I don't think the question should be whether you can get a job at a lower-tiered law school. The question really should be "can I get a job that will make the tuition worth it?" because a JD is not like a bachelor's degree where you seemingly need it nowadays just to prove to any employer that you're not a mouth-breathing idiot. If only the American high school diploma was still worth a drat. Eric Cantonese fucked around with this message at 15:13 on May 28, 2010 |
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May 28, 2010 15:10
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The Warp posted:She's wondering who the gently caress you guys are and where are all the unemployed lawyers you're talking about? She thinks that's there's no harm in going to Western State because she'll get her JD and pass the bar exam like every other lawyer, that they all learn the same damned material and they offered her a really huge scholarship. She thinks that you guys are just saying that she won't have a house by the beach or a cushy corporate firm, but I don't think she understands that it's more dire than that. I am an attorney working at a big firm in NY. The unemployed lawyers are all around her and if she hasn't taken the time to read about them she's doing a poor job researching (or reading the god damned OP). TyChan posted:I bet he slept with someone important. Using Latham again because I linked to it yesterday - http://latham.com/Attorneys.aspx?page=AttorneySearchResults&school=1419&attorneySearchMode=name 2 attorneys out of 2000. Oh look, 118 people from Harvard.
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May 28, 2010 15:27
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builds character posted:Using Latham again because I linked to it yesterday - http://latham.com/Attorneys.aspx?page=AttorneySearchResults&school=1419&attorneySearchMode=name 2 attorneys out of 2000. I like how both Cardozo graduates were cum laude. Unless the standards for cum laude have turned into a complete joke, that shows how obscenely good your grades have to be at that level of school to have a remote chance of getting into a firm at Latham's level. EDIT: One should probably also notice that none of the Cardozo people are partners either. 75 people from U.Va. Nice. Eric Cantonese fucked around with this message at 15:37 on May 28, 2010 |
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May 28, 2010 15:34
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TyChan posted:You know, the thing is that there is a remote chance that the market might recover enough that if you time it right, you're the 2L in the best year to be a 2L as law firms are looking for associates they "can" bill out at low rates. Lawyers are the kinds of people who latch on to remote chances, so the objectively low probability of this happening unless you're an expert in economic trends is not a deterrent. Has she considered moving out of the hell-hole US Legal Economy? The job market in Canada isn't *as* bad as it is down there. Vancouver and Toronto have large-ish legal markets and the tuition as a foreign student wouldn't be nearly as bad. That or apply to Hong Kong/UK and get your LLB converted? I think the Canada route is better though - most of our schools have converted to the JD already.
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May 28, 2010 16:47
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Petey posted:I promise I am not a troll. If your girlfriend wants to talk to someone who was in a similar situation and now has an actual job at a respectable organization outside of the legal industry, send me an email or PM and I will tell her (or you) why it is a bad choice to make. Add me to the list of people who managed to get non-legal work after law school. I could have gotten the exact same position, with the exact same pay, and would now have BETTER opportunities for advancement if I had taken a year to get a Masters in Accounting instead of taking 3 years to get a law degree.
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May 28, 2010 19:13
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TheMadMilkman posted:Add me to the list of people who managed to get non-legal work after law school. I could have gotten the exact same position, with the exact same pay, and would now have BETTER opportunities for advancement if I had taken a year to get a Masters in Accounting instead of taking 3 years to get a law degree. You got the IRS position, right? I think you talked about this in the thread earlier. Can you give a little more information on applying for non-lawyer jobs with the feds as a recent law school graduate? Did you do a Presidential Management Fellowship or anything like that?
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May 28, 2010 19:19
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builds character posted:Oh look, 118 people from Harvard. Yeah, there are all of 13 Illinois grads, some don't list honors, but most are summa or magna cum laude. Oh well who wants to work for Latham anyway. . .
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May 28, 2010 19:46
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Izzy got a job offer! http://abovethelaw.com/2010/05/a-massachusetts-lawyer-you-dont-want-to-work-for-and-a-law-student-you-dont-want-to-hire/
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May 28, 2010 20:44
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Roger_Mudd posted:Izzy got a job offer! Couldn't be, he didn't call her a friend of the family
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May 28, 2010 20:51
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Hey "The Warp" - If she won't take it from us, then will she listen to the president of the California Bar Association? http://calbar.ca.gov/state/calbar/c...the%20President Favorite quote: "For the foreseeable future the starter jobs that provided traditional training for those lawyers are not coming back "
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May 28, 2010 20:53
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Thankfully this thread has completely turned me off from the idea of going to law school. However I was too late to save some of my friends. One is going to Stetson University College of Law and I weep for her and what she has gotten herself into. How bad is McGeorge School of Law at University of the Pacific? It break Top 100 (at 98). How hosed are the both of them?
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May 28, 2010 20:58
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Zikan posted:How bad is McGeorge School of Law at University of the Pacific? It break Top 100 (at 98). How hosed are the both of them? Assuming they aren't in the top 10 of their class? very hosed.
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May 28, 2010 21:02
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Solomon Grundy posted:Hey "The Warp" - I'm glad someone in his position is stating this and laying out that there are jobs you can do, but you might have to go on your own in a solo practice to pull them off. That in itself will probably drive a lot of people away from law school since it tends to attract some of the most passive-aggressive, risk-averse people on the planet.
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May 28, 2010 21:14
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TyChan posted:I'm glad someone in his position is stating this and laying out that there are jobs you can do, but you might have to go on your own in a solo practice to pull them off. That in itself will probably drive a lot of people away from law school since it tends to attract some of the most passive-aggressive, risk-averse people on the planet. Only if they inform themselves before they commit themselves to the course. Once they start down the path, it's quite difficult to convince them to bail.
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May 28, 2010 21:28
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In other words, Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny.
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May 28, 2010 22:08
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Roger_Mudd posted:Assuming they aren't in the top 10 of their class? very hosed. I literally cling to qualifiers like these
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May 28, 2010 22:32
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Anyone had any experience with motions to consolidate? How is it organized on the order itself? Things like: Which case number is used or party names and such. I couldn't find an example memo in the "old clerk" files, so I'm swinging in the wind a little here...
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May 28, 2010 22:58
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Zikan posted:Thankfully this thread has completely turned me off from the idea of going to law school. However I was too late to save some of my friends. One is going to Stetson University College of Law and I weep for her and what she has gotten herself into. Proper hosed. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-0_sL5AAVQ J Miracle posted:I literally cling to qualifiers like these 
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May 28, 2010 23:01
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Vander posted:Anyone had any experience with motions to consolidate? How is it organized on the order itself? Things like: Which case number is used or party names and such. I couldn't find an example memo in the "old clerk" files, so I'm swinging in the wind a little here... Are you just talking about the captioning or the actual consolidation motion? Are you a clerk? Your best bet is probably to call the clerks office and they should be able to help. Some of the bigger courts will also have local rules on their website that cover these things, but if you're in state court I wouldn't count on it. Similarly, you could also try Pacer or Westlaw for old orders if you have access.
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May 28, 2010 23:15
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MayakovskyMarmite posted:Are you a clerk? Yup. And the judge just handed to briefs of the movants and told me to write him an order for consolidation. It's my 4th day!
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May 28, 2010 23:25
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Vander posted:Yup. And the judge just handed to briefs of the movants and told me to write him an order for consolidation. It's my 4th day!
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May 29, 2010 00:37
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So after week one of being a fancy pants rule 13 prosecutor, I see that I get kicked out of the building at about 4:30 every day and herded down an alley into a bar. I also see why people do this for a third of the money they would get to do 80 hours of doc review and die alone. And maybe, just maybe, I am learning to love the law.
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May 29, 2010 00:40
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Vander posted:Anyone had any experience with motions to consolidate? How is it organized on the order itself? Things like: Which case number is used or party names and such. I couldn't find an example memo in the "old clerk" files, so I'm swinging in the wind a little here... I just happen to have drafted a motion to consolidate today. In my state, at least, it's: code:
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May 29, 2010 00:49
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Ainsley, do you put your JD on your resume when you submit it?
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May 29, 2010 01:01
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Alaemon posted:Ainsley, do you put your JD on your resume when you submit it? You didn't ask me, but I tried leaving my JD off and changing "Summer Associate" to "Law Clerk" (an ambiguous term I've seen applied to both paralegal positions and lawyer positions), and changing the dates so they are just in years to disguise the fact they are just summer positions, dumbing down my job description, and still nothing. I think they Google - drat an uncommon name.
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May 29, 2010 01:27
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I'm going to give up on law and just put on my resume that I sucked dick for coke since 04, hopefully they won't ask for professional references.
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May 29, 2010 02:22
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I'm meeting the Communist Party of China tomorrow. Would it be bad form to beg for a job? I'm willing to run a WoW/Eve gold-farming operation if they'll let me.
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May 29, 2010 02:37
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CmdrSmirnoff posted:I'm meeting the Communist Party of China tomorrow. Would it be bad form to beg for a job? I'm willing to run a WoW/Eve gold-farming operation if they'll let me. I hear Foxconn is hiring in China (there's been a few openings). Maybe you should inquire with the CCP about that?
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May 29, 2010 02:45
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They've posted preliminary firms interviewing for OCI. For 3Ls, there are 26. Firms that are not IP nor requiring top quarter? 3. One firm is requiring you have a clerkship lined up before you start work.
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May 29, 2010 03:29
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CaptainScraps posted:They've posted preliminary firms interviewing for OCI. For 3Ls, there are 26. Firms that are not IP nor requiring top quarter? hahahahaha I'm just going to kill myself and get it the gently caress over with
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May 29, 2010 04:12
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