|
SWATJester posted:I got an A+ in copyright and attended class precisely twice. I had this happen to me this semester (I had huge attendance issues in the A+ class). I got a C+ in Criminal Procedure. I studied my rear end off for that class, read and briefed every case, had a great outline, and walked out of it feeling like a million bucks. The law Gods were angry.
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2010 04:27
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 11:27 |
|
|
evilweasel posted:My firm does. Does your firm just write off massive amounts of time or do you have the world's most understanding clients? Enough two minute emails and five minute phone calls and you could get a whole day's work in by 10:00am
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2010 04:48
|
|
|
JudicialRestraints posted:I had this happen to me this semester (I had huge attendance issues in the A+ class). I got a C+ in Criminal Procedure. I guess that's one explanation...it's certainly easy on the ego...
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2010 05:12
|
|
|
J Miracle posted:I guess that's one explanation...it's certainly easy on the ego... What? That I'm a natural genius at Tort law but that i'm a retard at criminal law?
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2010 05:31
|
|
|
J Miracle posted:I got a B+ on a one-credit Microeconomics for Lawyers class, other than that I've gotten all As and 5 book awards and worked my rear end off so to me this "law school grades are arbitrary" stuff kinda sounds like loser talk I would agree that it is easy to tell the difference between an A and a B- exam, and that the students who typically receive As are usually harder-working and/or smarter than their classmates, but I also think that it's fair to say that the difference between a B+ and an A- is frequently baffling. Law school exams fail to gauge mastery of the law in a finely tuned way that should inspire confidence in the validity of law school GPA as a sorting mechanism, at least in the middle ranges. Assuming basic familiarity with the subject matter sufficient to enable issue spotting, differences in grades on the typical exam seem to come down to writing technique and the quality of the respective students' outlines (which may have been borrowed anyway) rather than mastery of the material. That strikes me as problematic. Ersatz fucked around with this message at 06:15 on Jun 9, 2010 |
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2010 05:50
|
|
|
I think I just got my first work. A friend of mine is trying to sell his home-made halfpipe (for skateboarding) on Craigslist and asked me advice for writing up something to release him from liability. I told him to gently caress off since I don't pass the bar until next month - knock on wood - but then he offered to actually pay me. I haven't the slightest idea about anything, but I said I'll go for it! Oh, god. BigHead fucked around with this message at 11:20 on Jun 9, 2010 |
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2010 11:16
|
|
|
BigHead posted:I think I just got my first work. A friend of mine is trying to sell his home-made halfpipe (for skateboarding) on Craigslist and asked me advice for writing up something to release him from liability. I told him to gently caress off since I don't pass the bar until next month - knock on wood - but then he offered to actually pay me. I haven't the slightest idea about anything, but I said I'll go for it! When he sues you for malpractice, let me know, I'll take the case (I don't know anything about malpractice but I'll take his money)
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2010 11:20
|
|
|
BigHead posted:I think I just got my first work. A friend of mine is trying to sell his home-made halfpipe (for skateboarding) on Craigslist and asked me advice for writing up something to release him from liability. I told him to gently caress off since I don't pass the bar until next month - knock on wood - but then he offered to actually pay me. I haven't the slightest idea about anything, but I said I'll go for it! Use the next month to study for the bar. After you drag yourself out of the drunken haze you'll undoubtedly find yourself post-bar exam, just look up random Release Agreements on the internet and piece together something that looks pretty official. I would guess it would take about an hour. Tell him you'll give him a discount because he's a friend and charge him $50. Welcome to the beginning of the rest of your life! 
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2010 12:41
|
|
|
GamingHyena posted:Does anyone really bill in .25 increments? If I make 4 five minute phone calls for different clients, can I really bill them collectively an hour for 20 minutes of work? Yes. GamingHyena posted:Does your firm just write off massive amounts of time or do you have the world's most understanding clients? There are some firms that charge a premium for their work. Their engagement letters go something like this "We are going to advise you regarding the following matters and you will be represented by, among others, partner A and associate B, the rates for which are X and Y respectively. Our bill will include our standard 20% premium. Good luck suckers." Then they send a one line bill for three million dollars for legal services (and then the issuer pays it). That said, as a practical matter, most firms bill at, and most clients insist on, .1 increments and if you're billing in .25 increments you just don't bill for those phone calls and e-mails. Unless, of course, you're representing someone who isn't paying their own legal bills (for example, a bunch of bankruptcy work, working for trustees, working for underwriters) or if you're working on a huge deal. Then you bill for everything and at the end the client says "no, I'm not paying for those two minute e-mail responses and phone calls but fine I will pay the rest of your ludicrously large legal bill" and the partners laugh all the way to the bank. Green Crayons posted:Tell him you could totally write up a release in the here and now, but doing such a thing would be not only unethical but also grounds for you being disbarred as soon as you were to pass the bar (I don't know if the latter is entirely true, but I doubt he does either so feel free to There is a difference between passing the bar and being admitted to the bar. You have to be admitted before you can practice. edit: this is all true too.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2010 14:30
|
|
|
sigmachiev posted:Grades in. 3.88 again
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2010 14:46
|
|
|
BigHead posted:I think I just got my first work. A friend of mine is trying to sell his home-made halfpipe (for skateboarding) on Craigslist and asked me advice for writing up something to release him from liability. I told him to gently caress off since I don't pass the bar until next month - knock on wood - but then he offered to actually pay me. I haven't the slightest idea about anything, but I said I'll go for it! Once you are admitted, head down to your local courthouse's law library, and/or your local law school's law library, and look through the stacks for form books or practitioner's handbooks for your jurisdiction. I just did an Asset Purchase Agreement by finding five different agreement forms, cobbling together the provisions that I wanted, editing a few things here and there, and then sending it on to the client. I did a little background research about such agreements first, though, to make sure I wasn't missing some horrible career-ending issue. Easy money. (Not a lot of it, though  )
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2010 14:54
|
|
|
Just want to say that "undoubtedly totally bitchin" is a phrase that brightened my spirits this day. Also, don't write a loving liability release for anyone if you haven't passed the bar and been admitted you dummy. e: A couple of people have asked me to do wills for them. I can totally do this (we're not talking people with offshore accounts and millions of net worth tied up in annuities or anything, more like my stoner friends from high school who want to make sure their girlfriend gets the blown-glass bong if they eat too many mushrooms one night or something) but I was wondering how do you find out what is reasonable to charge someone? I mean, I'm basically going to be teaching myself to do this out of the Cook County law library and I know I can't (or shouldn't) charge for that, but should I just go "flat-fee" based on what I think seems a reasonable amount of time vs. compensation? Defleshed fucked around with this message at 15:34 on Jun 9, 2010 |
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2010 15:21
|
|
|
GamingHyena posted:Does anyone really bill in .25 increments? If I make 4 five minute phone calls for different clients, can I really bill them collectively an hour for 20 minutes of work? In the situation you've outlined, we're told to do exactly what you suggest, but I normally don't do so. Then again, I'm a fifth year who has never hit 2000 hours, so don't ask me. My personal realization rate is on the order of 85-90%, and that includes the frontloaded discounts, so they aren't writing off much of my time, but I may be self-discounting a bit.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2010 15:28
|
|
|
entris posted:I just did an Asset Purchase Agreement by finding five different agreement forms, cobbling together the provisions that I wanted, editing a few things here and there, and then sending it on to the client. I did a little background research about such agreements first, though, to make sure I wasn't missing some horrible career-ending issue. Easy money. (Not a lot of it, though Only thing to watch out for is making sure that the agreements from which you are cobbling one together are favorable to whatever your client is (i.e., buyer/seller).
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2010 15:29
|
|
|
Ainsley McTree posted:When he sues you for malpractice, let me know, I'll take the case (I don't know anything about malpractice but I'll take his money) The expert testimony requirement for a reasonable and prudent attorney means that expert will eat up any possible recovery you'd get.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2010 15:35
|
|
|
Defleshed posted:Just want to say that "undoubtedly totally bitchin" is a phrase that brightened my spirits this day. I recommend flat fees for most estate planning work, at least regarding drafting projects. Charge them a couple hundred dollars, if they are single with simple assets. If they are married, a couple hundred per person. "A couple hundred" can be anywhere from $200 to $500, but I'd keep it under $500 for simple work. If you had an established practice, I think you'd charge more, but just starting out I think those rates are reasonable. But then, that is just my opinion, which is heavily dependent on my experience in my market, which may be very different from your market.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2010 16:36
|
|
|
Can't find a job? Maybe it's time to take your search on the road. The U.S. trucking industry will need to hire about 200,000 drivers by the end of this year, and will need to add another 200,000 by the end of 2011, according to the state of logistics report from the Council of Supply Chain Management Professionals. http://money.cnn.com/2010/06/09/news/economy/truck_driver_shortage/index.htm?hpt=T2
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2010 16:48
|
|
|
entris posted:I recommend flat fees for most estate planning work, at least regarding drafting projects. Charge them a couple hundred dollars, if they are single with simple assets. If they are married, a couple hundred per person. "A couple hundred" can be anywhere from $200 to $500, but I'd keep it under $500 for simple work. I agree. You definitely want a flat fee. The first time you do one might take some time, but after that you'll just be changing names and a few other things so the time spent will go way down and therefore the amount you can bill will go down. A flat fee will allow you to charge more for that short amount of time.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2010 16:57
|
|
|
Roger_Mudd posted:Can't find a job? Maybe it's time to take your search on the road. I'd rather be a truck-driving lawyer who goes from truck stop to truck stop offering cheap legal advice while hauling goods. And arm wrestling. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2010 17:04
|
|
|
builds character posted:There is a difference between passing the bar and being admitted to the bar. You have to be admitted before you can practice.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2010 17:26
|
|
|
CmdrSmirnoff posted:I'd rather be a truck-driving lawyer who goes from truck stop to truck stop offering cheap legal advice while hauling goods. I smell a Lost replacement on ABC called "The rules of the road".
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2010 17:29
|
|
|
Green Crayons posted:What's between passing and being admitted? Is that when the character and fitness/background check comes into play? e: This is for Illinois, no idea where you are. gvibes fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Jun 9, 2010 |
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2010 17:59
|
|
|
Green Crayons posted:So, the process is: you take the bar, pass the bar and then you have to be admitted to the bar? What's between passing and being admitted? Is that when the character and fitness/background check comes into play? Most states have you do the Character & Fitness test before you take the bar (though some states like New York do it after). In Missouri, it was take the bar in February, wait until April to find out you passed and get sworn in that week - pretty hassle free. In New York, it was take the bar in July, get results in November and then you filled out all the character & fitness paperwork, then you were scheduled for an interview and a time to get admitted - which could be a month or so away due to how many people need to be admitted. New York gives you 3 years from the date you pass to get admitted before you have to retake the exam.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2010 18:02
|
|
|
Green Crayons posted:So, the process is: you take the bar, pass the bar and then you have to be admitted to the bar? What's between passing and being admitted? Is that when the character and fitness/background check comes into play? You have to be supervised by lawyers admitted to practice. This is also the case if you're practicing in a state in which you are not admitted (happens most often with new lawyers being admitted in Md, NY or VA and practicing in DC before they can waive in).
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2010 18:17
|
|
|
Roger_Mudd posted:I smell a Lost replacement on ABC called "The rules of the road". That's an amazing title. Make the main character a single parent who has to occasionally bring his 8-year old son/daughter along when the ex-wife is busy (with hilarious results), tie in something about the economic crisis forcing lawyers to work as truckers (and arm-wrestlers) and I smell a Thursday-night hit. CmdrSmirnoff fucked around with this message at 18:48 on Jun 9, 2010 |
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2010 18:18
|
|
|
J Miracle posted:I got a B+ on a one-credit Microeconomics for Lawyers class, other than that I've gotten all As and 5 book awards and worked my rear end off so to me this "law school grades are arbitrary" stuff kinda sounds like loser talk I don't think the grades are as arbitrary as people make them out to be although distinguishing between many examples of similar final products is going to result in many questionable calls. However, I do agree that the main difference between the high achievers and those "smart people" who languish in the average ranges is that the high achievers I've met tend to work intelligently as well as work hard. It's not just directionless diligence. I know for myself - a guy who is (inexplicably) told rather often from more successful law students and lawyers that I'm smart - I was always good at working hard, but brute force effort really doesn't do much for subject material as complicated and voluminous as your typical 1L law class. Likewise, a lot of students keep falling into the trap of memorizing case details and getting hung up on what the professor said in lectures as opposed to working on how to apply the subject material to whatever new, mutil-tiered questions that the professor will pull out on the final. During the exam-crunch stage, The smartest people I knew in law school were basically mapping out (and even drawing schematics about) how they would answer questions during the last days instead of finding themselves stuck on elementary concepts and studying inane case details. The thing is, cramming is actually hard work and a lot of law students end up cramming. However, cramming in knowledge when you should be perfecting your command of that material is working hard without working effectively. That's why time management is key although you will always meet a bunch of people in law school who can procrastinate wildly and then pull this off. Too bad I only fully applied these lessons when I was studying for the bar...
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2010 18:41
|
|
|
CmdrSmirnoff posted:That's an amazing title. Make the main character a single parent who has to occasionally bring his 8-year old son/daughter along when the ex-wife is busy (with hilarious results), tie in something about the economic crisis forcing lawyers to work as truckers (and arm-wrestlers) and I smell a Thursday-night hit. http://www.amazon.com/Over-Top-Sylvester-Stallone/dp/B0007TKNKG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1276106132&sr=8-1 Sylvester Stallone as an arm-wrestling truck driver trying to win the love of his estranged son after his mother dies.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2010 19:01
|
|
|
CaptainScraps posted:http://www.amazon.com/Over-Top-Sylvester-Stallone/dp/B0007TKNKG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1276106132&sr=8-1 Yes that's where I stole most of the idea from 
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2010 19:12
|
|
|
CmdrSmirnoff posted:Yes that's where I stole most of the idea from The only time I've ever seen or heard of that movie was in Macau. And it was in Russian. No human being would ever actually watch this movie willingly, hence my incredulity
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2010 19:14
|
|
|
CaptainScraps posted:The only time I've ever seen or heard of that movie was in Macau. And it was in Russian. No human being would ever actually watch this movie willingly, hence my incredulity I've watched it at least 6 times. It was one of the first English-language movies I ever saw and it was a wonderful piece of 80s cheese
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2010 19:31
|
|
|
Arghhhhhh Lexis just cancelled my account right before I was about to print out the last case I needed. Jokes on them, though; a couple of days ago I cashed in my Lexispoints. quote:The document you have requested is not available within your LexisNexis® subscription agreement. For additional subscription information, please contact your LexisNexis account representative. To find your account representative, please visit http://www.lexisnexis.com/new-user-information. Oh well, we get free unlimited lexis here anyway.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2010 19:43
|
|
|
Roger_Mudd posted:I smell a Lost replacement on ABC called "The rules of the road". Dibs For real though, I bet if you wrote a good enough pilot, a show like this would easily get picked up. You can have the lawyer/trucker defend other truckers in court while also having crazy adventures on the road. It would be a cross between Northern Exposure, Over The Top, and Generic Lawyer Show with a Dust Bowl/Depression era feel to it, and I bet it would be ridiculously popular.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2010 21:08
|
|
|
You'd have to take a lot of bar exams.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2010 22:06
|
|
|
diospadre posted:You'd have to take a lot of bar exams. Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Cali. He rides to them from Mexico. One or two episodes can be a Breaking Bad crossover.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2010 23:41
|
|
|
CaptainScraps posted:The expert testimony requirement for a reasonable and prudent attorney means that expert will eat up any possible recovery you'd get. you can waive expert testimony if the mistake/malpractice is so obvious that a layman understands why he did a Bad Thing
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2010 23:48
|
|
|
JohnnyTreachery posted:you can waive expert testimony if the mistake/malpractice is so obvious that a layman understands why he did a Bad Thing So BigHead, if you could gently caress up as much as humanly possible (try writing it in crayon and advising your client that it doesn't need to be signed in order to be binding also get him drunk first) you'd be helping me out
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2010 23:50
|
|
|
Ainsley McTree posted:So BigHead, if you could gently caress up as much as humanly possible (try writing it in crayon and advising your client that it doesn't need to be signed in order to be binding also get him drunk first) you'd be helping me out
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2010 00:07
|
|
|
JohnnyTreachery posted:you can waive expert testimony if the mistake/malpractice is so obvious that a layman understands why he did a Bad Thing That's true but usually applies to something so glaringly obvious as missing deadlines, not the normal standards and practices of drafting contracts.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2010 00:07
|
|
|
CmdrSmirnoff posted:Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Cali. He rides to them from Mexico. One or two episodes can be a Breaking Bad crossover. You could also justify it with a few years of practice in the right states for reciprocity. Not that the average viewer's even going to care about such things.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2010 00:19
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 11:27 |
|
|
IrritationX posted:You could also justify it with a few years of practice in the right states for reciprocity. Not that the average viewer's even going to care about such things. Just spend a few minutes every episode on a pro hac vice hearing they have hearings for those right?
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2010 01:18
|
|