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V-Men posted:I disagree. I think it speaks more the notion of civilizations like the Minbari who believe they can do no wrong, internal tension that is only suppressed through mysterious judgments by a government with which no one has any dealings, and really a government who had forgotten who they were governing for. It took a civil war to remind their leaders why they fought and sacrificed and it was for those who built their society (the Worker caste) who even Delenn said had become forgotten in the struggle for control between the Religious and Warrior castes.
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Jul 23, 2010 23:35
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Thats what I was thinking - It felt rushed, although understandable
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Jul 24, 2010 15:46
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Yeah, a Minbari Civil War should've felt like an absolutely humongous event. And it just didn't to me. I understand the "message", but as a story it was a blip. And the Starfire Wheel thing was frickin' stupid.
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Jul 24, 2010 23:39
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It would be better if the warrior caste were trying to fill the power void that was left when the vorlons left.
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Jul 24, 2010 23:53
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DAS Super! posted:I'm going through the series again...and I keep wonder how deep the Shadow-earth connection went and how was the psi-core involved. Like was the psi core supposed to be the telepath blockers for the shadows? You put telepaths into the shadow vessels and they're not vulnerable any more
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Jul 25, 2010 00:15
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Daimo posted:Thats what I was thinking - It felt rushed, although understandable Season 4 is actually my favorite, because it ties up most of the storylines, but it really does feel rushed. In comparison, season 5 feels very thin and stretched out. All due to PTEN cancelling / TNT picking up the series, I'm pretty sure. In fact, The Deconstruction of Falling Stars is my favorite episode in the whole series.
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Jul 25, 2010 23:26
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I reckon Intersections in Real Time is one of the best episodes of Babylon 5. If that had've been the final episode of the season... It's weird though. When I watch that episode, all I think is how it'd be possible to perform it on a stage. It feels like something you'd watch on stage.
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Jul 26, 2010 02:58
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Milky Moor posted:I reckon Intersections in Real Time is one of the best episodes of Babylon 5. If that had've been the final episode of the season... Which makes sense as that is how each of the fours acts were written and filmed. No edits were used.
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Jul 26, 2010 03:20
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I think it's actually the reason for the name of the episode, actually.
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Jul 26, 2010 05:30
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Yep, and JMS hired an experienced theatre actor for the role of his interrogator. Though in TV and film, theatre experience is more the rule than the exception.
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Jul 26, 2010 05:51
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Milky Moor posted:I reckon Intersections in Real Time is one of the best episodes of Babylon 5. If that had've been the final episode of the season... A friend and I used that episode during a presentation for a communications class way back in our early college days (~2000). Got an A, and really impressed the crap out of our instructor. I think we were covering some quasi-psychological concepts having to do with perception vs reality etc..., and the major excerpt we used for it was the whole "It does prove though how everything is a matter of perspective. You see what you think is daylight, and you assume it's morning. Take it away, you think it's night. Offer you a sandwich, if it's convenient, you'll think it's mid-day..." bit. Crackpipe posted:Yep, and JMS hired an experienced theatre actor for the role of his interrogator. Though in TV and film, theatre experience is more the rule than the exception.
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Jul 26, 2010 17:43
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Habibi posted:Didn't they hire/use a bunch of theatre people for their sets/props/make-ups as is? Yep. Seeing as how it was relatively low-budget, he wanted people who knew how to reuse and redress sets and props to make things look different.
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Jul 26, 2010 18:05
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mojo1701a posted:Yep. Seeing as how it was relatively low-budget, he wanted people who knew how to reuse and redress sets and props to make things look different. Yeah, one of my favorite DVD documentary bits was the one about their reuse of sets/furniture/etc... Some of them were relatively obvious, but a bunch I had never, and likely would have never, noticed had they not been specifically pointed out.
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Jul 26, 2010 18:33
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I am watching the fifth season again and god does Byron suck. You know who they should have had as the telepath leader? Harriman Gray played by Jeffrey Combs.
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Jul 26, 2010 19:39
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Lycus posted:Yeah, a Minbari Civil War should've felt like an absolutely humongous event. And it just didn't to me. I understand the "message", but as a story it was a blip. I'm pretty much willing to chalk that up to the requirement that everything be wrapped up in season 4. Though someone with the annotated script books should correct me if I'm wrong.
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Jul 26, 2010 19:47
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bobkatt013 posted:I am watching the fifth season again and god does Byron suck. You know who they should have had as the telepath leader? Harriman Gray played by Jeffrey Combs. Shoulda been the leader from the Underground Railroad episode. But you can improve almost any character by casting Jeffrey Coombs as the actor.
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Jul 26, 2010 20:44
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vortmax posted:In fact, The Deconstruction of Falling Stars is my favorite episode in the whole series. Totally on board with this, I loved that episode so much I almost cried. The reveal at the end is just superlative in every way.
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Jul 26, 2010 20:50
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mllaneza posted:But you can improve almost any character by casting Jeffrey Coombs as the actor. I was waiting for somebody to come out with this meme. Yeah hes above average in terms of portraying different alien cultures, but I'd rate Andreas Katsulas above him for the pure emotion he put into G'kar. Although both are essentially B-grade actors in hollywood so I really don't understand the following he has amongst trek fans. I watched the whole series of B5 a month ago and I don't even remember Harriman Grey... And its spelt 'Combs'.
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Jul 26, 2010 21:04
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Daimo posted:I was waiting for somebody to come out with this meme. Yeah hes above average in terms of portraying different alien cultures, but I'd rate Andreas Katsulas above him for the pure emotion he put into G'kar. Although both are essentially B-grade actors in hollywood so I really don't understand the following he has amongst trek fans. I watched the whole series of B5 a month ago and I don't even remember Harriman Grey... He is a telepath who goes against the Psi - corp and earth gov in the first season. It is in the episode eyes. He has such a following in star trek due to all the characters he plays and how awesome 90% of those characters are.
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Jul 26, 2010 21:08
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Daimo posted:I was waiting for somebody to come out with this meme. Yeah hes above average in terms of portraying different alien cultures, but I'd rate Andreas Katsulas above him for the pure emotion he put into G'kar. Although both are essentially B-grade actors in hollywood so I really don't understand the following he has amongst trek fans. I watched the whole series of B5 a month ago and I don't even remember Harriman Grey... The characters that can't be improved by castimg Combs can (could) be improved by casting Katsulas. If he isn't starring in the show already. Sure, they're both technically B actors, but they did really good work on... sci fi shows that got you very little credibility in Hollywood.
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Jul 26, 2010 21:10
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I've been rewatching lately and got to Season 4, and bleehhhhh... did Sheridan really have to come back from the dead? Or did he have to escape death by finding a mysterious old wizard? I really don't like Lorien or basically any scene he's a part of.
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Aug 11, 2010 01:12
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I have spent the last 2 months watching Seasons 2-4 of B5. I had never watched it before, but it is one of the boyfriend's favorite shows. I bought him Seasons 1 and 5 and all of the movies for his birthday this week. We started on Season 1 and I cannot stand Sinclair. I thought Shepherd was over dramatic, but oh poo poo... Sinclair is worse. Also, I cannot get past Delenn's makeup/prosthetics in season 2+. The bone ridge looks like a headband, NOT a piece of her skull. Her hair seems to go underneath it.  PS - The Corps is your mother and father. BoogerPrincess fucked around with this message at 01:30 on Aug 11, 2010 |
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Aug 11, 2010 01:24
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Queej posted:Also, I cannot get past Delenn's makeup/prosthetics in season 2+. The bone ridge looks like a headband, NOT a piece of her skull. Her hair seems to go underneath it. Thats such a female thing to notice  I did too  Imagine what would happen if you ran up to her and pulled all her hair out from under that ridge... you think backcombing is bad!
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Aug 11, 2010 02:00
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Now that you mention it, it does look pretty bad. I never noticed it before in all of the years ive watched Babylon 5. The show is so outdated now though by todays standards. The production values are just really low in comparison to what is out nowadays.
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Aug 11, 2010 05:11
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Daimo posted:I was waiting for somebody to come out with this meme. Combs is a magnificent and very memorable actor and I'm pretty sure your posting is awful.
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Aug 11, 2010 05:15
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MrL_JaKiri posted:You put telepaths into the shadow vessels and they're not vulnerable any more I thought an extremely high level telepath, like that guy who managed to transform into a being of pure energy could still effect them? Granted, not a common thing but they're not totally invulnerable to telepaths, just your run of the mill telepaths most races have access too.
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Aug 11, 2010 05:19
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Queej posted:Also, I cannot get past Delenn's makeup/prosthetics in season 2+. The bone ridge looks like a headband, NOT a piece of her skull. Her hair seems to go underneath it. Delenn has a handle.
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Aug 11, 2010 05:31
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seaborgium posted:I thought an extremely high level telepath, like that guy who managed to transform into a being of pure energy could still effect them? Granted, not a common thing but they're not totally invulnerable to telepaths, just your run of the mill telepaths most races have access too. Well it was implied that that guy was like the First One. That is why he said that he would see them in 1000 years.
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Aug 11, 2010 05:33
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I said come in! posted:Now that you mention it, it does look pretty bad. I never noticed it before in all of the years ive watched Babylon 5. The show is so outdated now though by todays standards. The production values are just really low in comparison to what is out nowadays. They had a pretty low budget even by the standards of the day. I think the guy who created it said they usually had a budget of about half of what Star Trek got.
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Aug 11, 2010 06:23
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Tighclops posted:I'm pretty sure your posting is awful. Statistically, yours is four times more awful. 
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Aug 11, 2010 12:59
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:They had a pretty low budget even by the standards of the day. I think the guy who created it said they usually had a budget of about half of what Star Trek got. Lower. For what Star Trek got for a single episode, B5 had to do an entire season with. quote:Now that you mention it, it does look pretty bad. I never noticed it before in all of the years ive watched Babylon 5. The show is so outdated now though by todays standards. The production values are just really low in comparison to what is out nowadays. Thing is, it all really starts looking great by Season 5. 
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Aug 12, 2010 01:40
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Milky Moor posted:Lower. For what Star Trek got for a single episode, B5 had to do an entire season with. That's absolutely not the case.
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Aug 12, 2010 02:21
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That's what I was thinking Crackpipe, however: Wikipedia cites $90m for 110 episodes. That works out at roughly $820k each. IMDB says Star Trek Voyager cost roughly $2.8m per episode. That's an absolutely phenomenal and mind blowing amount of money per episode! u fink u hard Percy fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Aug 12, 2010 |
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Aug 12, 2010 18:55
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Does that include advertising for each ep? Because I'm pretty sure they advertised Star Trek much more than B5.
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Aug 12, 2010 19:00
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Daimo posted:That's what I was thinking Crackpipe, however: That still doesn't come anywhere close to a single-episode budget for Star Trek equaling a single-season budget for B5, which was Milky Moor's claim. A better comparison would be Deep Space Nine, which was budgeted in the neighborhood of $1.5 million per episode. Babylon 5's per-episode budget varied wildly depending on the effects (naturally), with some episodes costing as little as $800,000 and some costing upwards of $1 million. But it was always a struggle to bring things in on-budget and on-time (which resulted in a lot of cutting corners to reduce costs, like with the casting).
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Aug 12, 2010 19:32
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Daimo posted:That's what I was thinking Crackpipe, however: That's just because Jeri Ryan was charging Brannon Braga $250,000 a throw.
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Aug 12, 2010 20:04
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Daimo posted:That's what I was thinking Crackpipe, however: Yeah, Star Trek got stupid-crazy with the money. I think they blew over $20M on the Voyager pilot.
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Aug 12, 2010 20:53
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Yeah, Star Trek got stupid-crazy with the money. I think they blew over $20M on the Voyager pilot. Now I know that's not true since the Lost pilot was the most expensive at the time of broadcast time and that wasn't more than $14m.
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Aug 12, 2010 20:58
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Noxville posted:Now I know that's not true since the Lost pilot was the most expensive at the time of broadcast time and that wasn't more than $14m. Greenlit at $10 million, wound up costing something like $13.8 million, according to James B. Stewart's book DisneyWar.
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Aug 12, 2010 21:02
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Daimo posted:IMDB says Star Trek Voyager cost roughly $2.8m per episode. Voyager paid better than B5, did location shoots and built new one-off sets all of the time, etc. What drives me nuts about Voyager is that you never really got a sense of "Wow! This is a fantastic episode where they really pulled out all the stops!" like with DS9. Even the large battles and expansive sets just fell flat for some reason. It was all mindless noise. Keep in mind that DS9 with twice B5's budget could shoot a handful of bottle episodes on the standing sets and progressively funnel a lot of leftover money into sweeps-extravaganzas, while B5 basically had enough money to keep the lights on + a little extra. Berman and Co. also had a lot more flexibility with getting a lot more money from Paramount for special eps like "Way of the Warrior" - which was obscenely expensive.
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Aug 12, 2010 21:39
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