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Who Killed WCW?
Eric Bischoff
Hulk Hogan
Vince Russo
Jerusalem
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El Axo Grande
Apr 2, 2005

by T. Finn

SamuraiFoochs posted:

Joe Paternowns

Joe Paterowns stadium

On the corner of Eat gently caress Buckeyes boulevard and Ann Arbor's a whore avenue.

Across from the gently caress yeah Joe Pa again Peachy Paterno woot woot Center.

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Truther Vandross
Jun 17, 2008

Dylar Addict posted:

Joe Paterowns stadium

On the corner of Eat gently caress Buckeyes boulevard and Ann Arbor's a whore avenue.

Across from the gently caress yeah Joe Pa again Peachy Paterno woot woot Center.


Parallel to poo poo His Pants on the Field at Ohio Stadium Court

The Duck of Death
Nov 19, 2009

MassRayPer posted:

The best story from that show is how Akira motherfucking Hokuto met her husband on that tour and they had incredibly loud sex at the hotel.

Fixed.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!
I saw this posted on THE BOARD and had to bump this thread:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STB6n9YT5ko

The Uncensored 96 Doomsday Cage

The Alliance to End Hulkamania vs Hulk Hogan and Randy Savage

Space Cob
Jan 24, 2006

a pilot on fire is not fit to fly

MassRayPer posted:

I saw this posted on THE BOARD and had to bump this thread:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STB6n9YT5ko

The Uncensored 96 Doomsday Cage

The Alliance to End Hulkamania vs Hulk Hogan and Randy Savage

What the poo poo did I just watch? And what was even the point of having that end in a pinfall? How did that in any way matter, especially since no one even attempted a pinfall before the finish?

I'm glad no other promotion has done matches with stacked cages. Every one I've seen sucked.

Beef Jerky Robot
Sep 20, 2009

"And the DICK?"

Space Cob posted:

What the poo poo did I just watch? And what was even the point of having that end in a pinfall? How did that in any way matter, especially since no one even attempted a pinfall before the finish?

I'm glad no other promotion has done matches with stacked cages. Every one I've seen sucked.

Jimmy King vs. DDP. Claim disproven.

MrBling
Aug 21, 2003

Oozing machismo
Uncensored 96 was generally speaking a very bad ppv.

It has the Finlay-Regal match where they just beat the poo poo out of each other, but other than that its all poo poo.

Pretty much the only thing of note it did was set up the angle of DDP leaving WCW and living in the street until he returned at Slamboree.

disaster pastor
May 1, 2007


MrBling posted:

Uncensored 96 was generally speaking a very bad ppv.

It has the Finlay-Regal match where they just beat the poo poo out of each other, but other than that its all poo poo.

Pretty much the only thing of note it did was set up the angle of DDP leaving WCW and living in the street until he returned at Slamboree.

Uncensored was generally speaking a very bad PPV. Every year it had 0-2 decent matches and a ton of poo poo rounding out the card.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

tzirean posted:

Uncensored was generally speaking a very bad PPV. Every year it had 0-2 decent matches and a ton of poo poo rounding out the card.
You could say that about most every WCW PPV after a certain point.

disaster pastor
May 1, 2007


Endorph posted:

You could say that about most every WCW PPV after a certain point.

Sure, but the difference is that Uncensored sucked every single time. There's no year where I'd say "hey, might as well check Uncensored out for the experience." It's terrible from its first year to its last, and the best you can hope for is that there's a match that's worth watching separately.

Orange Carlisle
Jul 14, 2007

On paper Uncensored 1997 sounds like a decent lineup. It included:

Dean Malenko v Eddie Guerrero for the U.S. Title (20 minute match)
Ultimo Dragon v Psycosis
Glacier v Mortis
Harlem Heat v Public Enemy
Team nWo (Nash, Hall, Savage, Hogan) v Team WCW (Luger, Steiner, The Giant) v Team Piper (Piper, Benoit, Jarrett, McMichael) in a triangle elimination match

1998 looked alright too, including:

Booker T v Eddie Guerrero for the TV Title
Juvi v Konnan
Jericho v Malenko for the Cruiserweight Championship
DDP v Raven v Benoit in a triple threat match (Which was a fantastic match and probably the only one I've seen from an uncensored PPV)
Bret Hart v Curt Hennig
Sting v Scott Hall
Hogan v Savage in a cage

disaster pastor
May 1, 2007


Mr. Carlisle posted:

On paper Uncensored 1997 sounds like a decent lineup. It included:

Dean Malenko v Eddie Guerrero for the U.S. Title (20 minute match)
Ultimo Dragon v Psycosis
Glacier v Mortis
Harlem Heat v Public Enemy
Team nWo (Nash, Hall, Savage, Hogan) v Team WCW (Luger, Steiner, The Giant) v Team Piper (Piper, Benoit, Jarrett, McMichael) in a triangle elimination match

1998 looked alright too, including:

Booker T v Eddie Guerrero for the TV Title
Juvi v Konnan
Jericho v Malenko for the Cruiserweight Championship
DDP v Raven v Benoit in a triple threat match (Which was a fantastic match and probably the only one I've seen from an uncensored PPV)
Bret Hart v Curt Hennig
Sting v Scott Hall
Hogan v Savage in a cage

For '97, Malenko/Guerrero was tremendous, Glacier/Mortis was decent. Dragon and Psychosis phoned it in, the tag match was awful, the main was a clusterfuck (with, granted, an awesome post-match moment), and there's a worthless Bagwell/Riggs strap match and a completely uninteresting Prince Iaukea vs. Rey Mysterio match that actually got the crowd to not care about Rey.

In '98, yes, the triple threat was outstanding. Eddie and Booker had a slow, rough match that was mostly there to move the Chavo angle along. Jericho/Malenko was nearly disappointing because Jericho wasn't really JERICHO in the ring yet, but it set up the big Jericho/Malenko angle so it's usually forgiven. Juvi/Konnan was completely unmemorable. Hart/Hennig was slow, long and boring, Sting/Hall was slow, not as long and boring, there's a Nash vs. Giant match that's slow, short and boring, and Hogan/Savage was a slow, long, loving terrible match that would have been worst match of the year if WCW hadn't signed Warrior.

Orange Carlisle
Jul 14, 2007

Interesting trivia that I didnt know:

quote:

The Blacktop Bully defeated Dustin Rhodes in a King of the Road match

This match was taped days earlier outside of Atlanta, Georgia and was heavily edited, due to their no-blood policy at the time. Rhodes and Bully were fired for blading during the match.

Goldust got Daniel Bryan'd before Daniel Bryan existed.

Critical
Aug 23, 2007

Mr. Carlisle posted:

Interesting trivia that I didnt know:


Goldust got Daniel Bryan'd before Daniel Bryan existed.

The best thing about this is that they were told to make it bloody as hell by management before the match.

bobkatt013
Oct 8, 2006

You’re telling me Peter Parker is ...... Spider-man!?
In WCW was there any point where the right hand knew what the left was doing?

Dario the Wop
Oct 11, 2007

Hell-Sent, Heaven-Bent
1989. Most of that year was quite good. The booking team had both Jim Ross and Ric Flair, among a few others.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

bobkatt013 posted:

In WCW was there any point where the right hand knew what the left was doing?

I was going through some old Nitros recently and came across an odd little episode where Raven's Flock surrounded the ring to get at Benoit or something.... and then suddenly Finlay comes running out of nowhere, beats the poo poo out of Benoit and then leaves.... and the Flock are just kind of standing there like,"Why the gently caress did Finlay just do that?"

Orange Carlisle
Jul 14, 2007

Jerusalem posted:

I was going through some old Nitros recently and came across an odd little episode where Raven's Flock surrounded the ring to get at Benoit or something.... and then suddenly Finlay comes running out of nowhere, beats the poo poo out of Benoit and then leaves.... and the Flock are just kind of standing there like,"Why the gently caress did Finlay just do that?"

One of the best parts about being a WCW fan during that time was that the wrestlers at any given point in time were probably just as confused as the fans about what the hell was going on.

Matlock
Sep 12, 2004

Childs Play Charity 2011 Total: $1755

Jerusalem posted:

I was going through some old Nitros recently and came across an odd little episode where Raven's Flock surrounded the ring to get at Benoit or something.... and then suddenly Finlay comes running out of nowhere, beats the poo poo out of Benoit and then leaves.... and the Flock are just kind of standing there like,"Why the gently caress did Finlay just do that?"

You need to re-find that and post it, because that's amazing.

The closest thing today would be Nexus cornering Cena, Sheamus running in and beating the hell of him and leaving without comment, and then Nexus stomping Cena in their confusion

Space Cob
Jan 24, 2006

a pilot on fire is not fit to fly
I can only imagine now a heel who wants to prove he is the baddest dude in the company. So he says he is a bigger bad dude than all of the other bad dudes on the show put together. Then he sets out to prove it by running in and beating up all the babyfaces currently in feuds on the show.

I can only imagine Scott Steiner doing this.

bobkatt013
Oct 8, 2006

You’re telling me Peter Parker is ...... Spider-man!?

Space Cob posted:

I can only imagine now a heel who wants to prove he is the baddest dude in the company. So he says he is a bigger bad dude than all of the other bad dudes on the show put together. Then he sets out to prove it by running in and beating up all the babyfaces currently in feuds on the show.

I can only imagine Scott Steiner doing this.

Sid basically did this except he would just beat up people. Then they would count towards his winning streak.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Matlock posted:

You need to re-find that and post it, because that's amazing.

The closest thing today would be Nexus cornering Cena, Sheamus running in and beating the hell of him and leaving without comment, and then Nexus stomping Cena in their confusion

Also Van Hammer is there but wearing a fishnet undershirt and mascara, just standing on the ring looking menacing while the commentators alternate between,"WHAT IS FIT FINLAY DOING!?!" and,"WHO IS THAT IS IT... IS IT YES IT LOOKS LIKE.... HE BEARS A SUSPICIOUS RESEMBLANCE TO VAN HAMMER!"

Rousimar Pauladeen
Feb 27, 2007

I hate the mods I hate the mods I hate the mods! I HATE THE MODS I HATE THE MODS I HATE THE MODS! Hey wait a minute why do the mods hate me I'm contributing to the conversation I HATE THE MODS I HATE THE MODS I HA
I always thought they should have had Nicole Bass be Van Hammer's manager and then have them switch out when the ref was distracted.

SamuraiFoochs
Jan 16, 2007




Grimey Drawer

Jerusalem posted:

Also Van Hammer is there but wearing a fishnet undershirt and mascara, just standing on the ring looking menacing while the commentators alternate between,"WHAT IS FIT FINLAY DOING!?!" and,"WHO IS THAT IS IT... IS IT YES IT LOOKS LIKE.... HE BEARS A SUSPICIOUS RESEMBLANCE TO VAN HAMMER!"

I must see this.

coconono
Aug 11, 2004

KISS ME KRIS

Jerusalem posted:

Also Van Hammer is there but wearing a fishnet undershirt and mascara, just standing on the ring looking menacing while the commentators alternate between,"WHAT IS FIT FINLAY DOING!?!" and,"WHO IS THAT IS IT... IS IT YES IT LOOKS LIKE.... HE BEARS A SUSPICIOUS RESEMBLANCE TO VAN HAMMER!"

this could be a quote from a future impact.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

bobkatt013 posted:

Sid basically did this except he would just beat up people. Then they would count towards his winning streak.
People always say this but it's just not true. HE would count it toward his win streak and the announcers would talk about how bogus it was. WCW did a lot of things that made no sense but Sid ripping on Goldberg's streak was an angle that made perfect sense. For some reason, though, everybody seems to remember his "wins" being treated as actual wins, which never happened.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!
Yes the entire idea was it would all build up to a big blow off with Goldberg.

Russo booked an I Quit match between the two for the blow off and had it go six minutes. Amazing.

Orange Carlisle
Jul 14, 2007

I've never understood why people blame Sid's winning streak on WCW as bad booking and them trying to pass it off as real. As it was said a few posts before this one they kept saying how ridiculous his streak was and that he was more or less making it up as he went. At the time I thought it was hilarious and I totally "got" it. Of course the streak wasn't real, and Sid was just being Sid (in character and in the storyline) and adding losses as wins and inflating his own score just to make his case for being Goldberg's opponent. The whole angle was pretty funny in the same absurd way that Jericho naming off a list of his 1004 holds was funny.

Zack_Gochuck
Jan 4, 2007

Stupid Wrestling People
I think people get it mixed up with the storyline where Goldberg had to recreate his original streak or be fired, and they would count every time he speared and jack hammered someone outside a match as a win.

MrBling
Aug 21, 2003

Oozing machismo
Sid had Charles Robinson as his personal cheerleader and scorekeeper, and I can't remember why.

He would hold up signs showing the appropriate number of wins though.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Magic_Ceiling_Fan posted:

I think people get it mixed up with the storyline where Goldberg had to recreate his original streak or be fired, and they would count every time he speared and jack hammered someone outside a match as a win.

This is incorrect.

They would count every time he speared and jackhammered someone outside a match as 15 wins.

Strenuous Manflurry
Sep 5, 2006

THE END
I remember Kevin Nash had a gauntlet match once, and the ref would count pinfalls on people as they were knocked down, whether Nash was pinning them or not.

Yes! Found it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HY_intJPQ4

Kwik
Apr 4, 2006

You can't touch our beaver. :canada:

Strenuous Manflurry posted:

I remember Kevin Nash had a gauntlet match once, and the ref would count pinfalls on people as they were knocked down, whether Nash was pinning them or not.

Yes! Found it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HY_intJPQ4

Let's see here:

Schiavone, not once, but twice, announcing actions by THE Disco Inferno, Russo covered in fake blood delivering a promo, and at least 3 pinfalls counted without even covers by Nash, plus 5 pinfalls total in like a 40-second span.

Yeah, it's a wonder WCW died after all.

Akileese
Feb 6, 2005

MassRayPer posted:

I saw this posted on THE BOARD and had to bump this thread:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STB6n9YT5ko

The Uncensored 96 Doomsday Cage

The Alliance to End Hulkamania vs Hulk Hogan and Randy Savage

I want to know how I ever missed this match happening. The best part is halfway through where people in parts of the cage that didn't do anything just leave the cage.

Wazzu
Feb 28, 2008

Are you sure I'm winning the Rumble? That does'nt seem right.....

Strenuous Manflurry posted:

I remember Kevin Nash had a gauntlet match once, and the ref would count pinfalls on people as they were knocked down, whether Nash was pinning them or not.

Yes! Found it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HY_intJPQ4

WCW was a portal leading to the abyss, with no bottom possible.

Kwik
Apr 4, 2006

You can't touch our beaver. :canada:

Wazzu posted:

WCW was a portal leading to the abyss, with no bottom possible.

You know, I go back and look at it again, and with the way the ref sort of drops, and hesitates before the counts the first phantom pin, it almost seems like he screwed up, and WCW being, well, WCW, there was no voice in the refs ear telling him he hosed up, so he just figured "I'm down here, I should do SOMETHING, or I'm gonna look like an idiot!"

Golden Bee
Dec 24, 2009

I came here to chew bubblegum and quote 'They Live', and I'm... at an impasse.
It takes a big man to bury 1/4th of the roster in one match. Imagine if the first time the Nexus attacked, Cena was in the center of the ring and won decisively.

Nothing about that clip makes sense in a positive way.

CVagts
Oct 19, 2009
2000 WCW was the most fun trainwreck TV ever.

bobkatt013
Oct 8, 2006

You’re telling me Peter Parker is ...... Spider-man!?

Wazzu posted:

WCW was a portal leading to the abyss, with no bottom possible.

I am beginning to think that staring at WCW is a portal to the Old Great ones.

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MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!
The back issue of the Observer dealing with the infamous Beach Blast mini movie was just posted, so it seemed like a good time to revive this thread.

quote:

After its television show reached a new low in retarded wrestling angles on Saturday, the hierarchy of World Championship Wrestling needs a thorough housecleaning.

The problem isn't trying to identify who wrote and came up with the scenario in which Sting, Davey Boy Smith, Sid Vicious, Big Van Vader, Harley Race and Col. Rob Parker were involved in a reported $80,000 mini-movie production to build up the 7/18 Beach Blast PPV main event. The problem wasn't even in the decision to go with the same idea (a mini-movie) to build up the PPV for the third time in nine months, after the second such expensive attempt failed miserably. The problem is with an organization which has so many supposed checks and balances in its hierarchy yet absolutely no understanding of what its product is, what its audience is, and that none of those checks and balances stopped the mini-movie that everyone I've spoken with both in and out of the organization admits was a total embarrassment, from airing.

For those of you lucky enough to not see the most flawed PPV angle in history, it went something like this. The heels, mad because Sting & Smith didn't show up for a pep rally, went to a mysterious island where Sting & Smith were doing charity work. It's bad enough when wrestling people and other celebrities use charities simply to promote themselves in a positive light as a reaction to negative publicity, but at least in those cases they do donate time and/or effort to charity. In this case, the "charity work" consisted of playing volleyball with some child actors. Parker assured the rest of the heels that he had a plan that would keep Sting & Smith from appearing at Beach Blast. Little did he know that plan would only keep viewers from buying the show. It wound up with a dwarf wearing an eye patch swimming with a shark fin putting a bomb on a boat that Sting & Smith used to get to Gilligan's Island. Two very young girls saw the dwarf. The heels then took a boat ride to Gilligan's Island, and the only thing positive about that is that they didn't let Harley drive the boat. After a confrontation where the heels demanded the faces retire and the kids acted like they were going to cry if the faces would retire, one of the little kids told Sting about the funny man who was hanging around the boat. As Sting went to check, somehow one of the little girls told Smith about a ticking noise, and Einstein himself started sprinting down the beach, which was a sight in itself, and knocked Sting out of harms way just seconds before the bomb exploded and the boat blew up.

One would think when looking at any business venture, one would look at how the same business, especially a world wide one such as pro wrestling, is run both successfully and unsuccessfully in different places. Instead, the company is being run by people who haven't a clue about 1993 wrestling. It's run by some who are very knowledgeable about 1985 pro wrestling in the Southeast, and some who aren't knowledgeable about any aspect of pro wrestling whatsoever. There are plenty of companies still very successful in this industry, although none in this country right now. None are taking this path. That isn't necessarily bad, because a company has to forge its own way. However, this isn't forging its own way. We already have a role model to examine when it comes to putting endless stupid skits on television what the end result is. The Global Wrestling Federation. A group that, despite having a national television outlet, had no interest in its product whatsoever, and has to give away 30,000 tickets every week just to get 2,000 people to show up on Friday nights. The saddest part of all this isn't that WCW is copying Global. The saddest part is the people running the company are so ill-informed of the goings on in their own industry that they most likely don't even know what they are doing has already been tried and was and is a miserable failure. I'm convinced in those skits where they go to skid row, they aren't really searching for Cactus Jack. Knowing the TBS track record in picking people to run WCW, they're actually searching for replacements for the current company hierarchy when this group gets run out in the wake of what are sure to be disastrous ratings over the next few months.

Amidst the phone messages from some long-time fans who vowed this show marked the end of their interest in wrestling, and/or WCW, the calls to wrestling radio shows over the weekend, and messages from those in the business who couldn't believe how unwatchable the entire Saturday night television show had become, was one by Jim Cornette who begged to be quoted regarding said skit.

"Three of the wrestlers who comprise the wrestling talent in that thing I have the highest respect for their work and think they're fantastic, but anybody that would take part in this thing for any price or for any contract is crazy. Anybody responsible for that f---ing abomination should not only be shot but be forced to watch that abomination over and over again until they puke up their toenails before being shot. And they wonder why they can't do any business? I think everyone involved should suffer the most horrible painful death possible because of the money they're taking out of all our pockets who are trying to preserve this business that is rapidly going down the tubes.”

No one skit is going to, in and of itself, destroy pro wrestling or even damage it noticeably. And in reality, the wrestlers themselves had little input or option in this or similar scenarios like the one with Cactus Jack. However, this direction is going to be one of many things that will take the company down to yet even greater depths. WCW needs somebody who has an open mind, knows the year on the current calendar, understands what the word continuity means and understands why wrestling fans watch television and go to arenas in control. They also need to keep those who have no idea why pro wrestling is successful in places and times when it has been successful, why wrestling fans even attend and what they're looking for in a television and live product from giving their expert decisions to muddle up all the work needed to save a business that could be just months away from truly critical condition. If not, I've got three words to say about WCW. Better off dead. Those words are being written taking into account just how terrible it would be for the wrestlers and their families, and the industry as a whole to have another company bite the dust with such few job openings left in this industry. They take into account that WCW still has the ability to put on entertaining events such as the recent Clash. They take into account that the current time period is one where the future of the WWF, WCW's main alternative, is itself in its most cloudy state in history. But an abrupt death, allowing others to start up, hopefully learn from the mistakes, and get rolling as quick as possible is better for the industry than a slow, painful damaging death that slows the process or prevents these things from happening by turning more people off to the product producing silly skits like we've been seeing. But the real and best possible solution is for the company to higher people in a decision making position that have at least a semblance of both respect and understanding for and toward its consumers.

Here is the video in question: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsqA4w9IbeQ

This thing has been written about so many times that I think everyone knows about it, but reading about it in the context of the time is interesting.

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