Mustang Murderthread: Our cars thirst for pedestrian blood

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A.o.D.: Jan 15, 2006; The Suffering of the Succotash.

One thing I noticed about the 5.0 I test-drove was that it did not have a front sway bar.

What's up with that? Is there some trim level that has them while others don't? I thought every 5.0 had a front sway.

# ? Jul 31, 2010 04:08

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# ? Apr 19, 2024 04:32

Throatwarbler: Nov 17, 2008; by vyelkin

A.o.D. posted:

One thing I noticed about the 5.0 I test-drove was that it did not have a front sway bar.

What's up with that? Is there some trim level that has them while others don't? I thought every 5.0 had a front sway.

If you mean a strut tower brace, I don't think any of them do?

# ? Jul 31, 2010 04:35

A.o.D.: Jan 15, 2006; The Suffering of the Succotash.

Throatwarbler posted:

If you mean a strut tower brace, I don't think any of them do?

Huh. I wonder why the 2010 GT had it.

# ? Jul 31, 2010 05:11

Bandire: Jul 12, 2002; a rabid potato

I believe the strut tower brace is included with 19" wheel packages. Why the distinction I don't know, but that's what I've read.

# ? Jul 31, 2010 06:32

A.o.D.: Jan 15, 2006; The Suffering of the Succotash.

Bandire posted:

I believe the strut tower brace is included with 19" wheel packages. Why the distinction I don't know, but that's what I've read.

That clears things up a lot. The 2010 was a higher trim level, and probably had the 19" rims.

Do you suppose that the brembo brake package (which includes 19" wheels) would also come with the front brace?

# ? Jul 31, 2010 06:35

Bandire: Jul 12, 2002; a rabid potato

All 19" options should have it, Brembo package included. I want to say all convertibles have it too, but I'm not 100% on that.

# ? Jul 31, 2010 06:56

kronix: Jul 1, 2004

I think any premium level GT should have it but not the base.

# ? Jul 31, 2010 17:00

Bandire: Jul 12, 2002; a rabid potato

I've seen people posting elsewhere about getting a premium with 18's and not getting the brace. It doesn't appear to be tied to trim level. It has to either be a convertible and/or have 19's to come with the strut tower brace.

# ? Jul 31, 2010 17:30

turnerburna: Jan 11, 2005; Cobra Commander

http://www.detnews.com/article/20100731/AUTO03/7310316/Why-a-$30-500-Ford-Mustang-beats-$150-000-European-sports-cars

Thought you guys might be interested in this article on the front page of the Detroit News today.

# ? Jul 31, 2010 17:56

Skyssx: Feb 2, 2001; by T. Fine

"This article is no longer available online for free."

Nope, not interested.

# ? Jul 31, 2010 23:48

ApathyGifted: Aug 30, 2004; Tomorrow?

Skyssx posted:

"This article is no longer available online for free."

Nope, not interested.

Page loads fine for me. The internet just hates you, Skyssx.

# ? Aug 1, 2010 00:08

Dick Burglar: Mar 6, 2006

The article is pretty dumb. It doesn't qualify WHY it beats these nebulous '$150,000 European sports cars,' (of which it names none, other than referencing that the current V8 makes more power than a first-gen Viper or 360 Modena--both of which are quite outdated) and it's just a gushy piece of feel-good crap for Detroit residents about 'MERICAN CARS.

For those who can't view the article:

quote:

Why a $30,500 Ford Mustang beats $150,000 European sports cars
Jason H. Harper / Bloomberg News

I have a $150,000 sports car in my parking garage, a handcrafted machine produced overseas in limited numbers. Next to it, I have a U.S.-made Ford Mustang GT, armadas of which will be sold for as little as $30,500.

I tested both the day before, so which to take out today just for the thrill?

"The 'Stang, please," I tell Paul and Hector, my trusty garage guys.

Advertisement

Paul raises his eyebrow. Seriously?

Times have changed. Changed in a whopping, Big Bang kind of way. Once hopeless and bumbling, Ford Motor Co. is now really cranking out the good stuff. And its new Mustang is about as good as it gets.

I'm reminded why as I aim the sparkling blue hood (the deep, lustrous paint is called "Kona Blue Metallic") on my way out of town.

Normally I nurse high-dollar rides over the canyon-sized cracks and craters in New York's West Side Highway as if guiding a colicky baby in a carriage. With the Mustang's high clearance and sturdy shocks, I bound over the choppy asphalt. Bulletproof.

On today's just-for-fun itinerary: I'm prowling for open, winding lanes where the V-8 can have its torque-mad way with the world. Under full throttle, the brand-new 5.0-liter motor sounds like Zeus hurling thunderbolts, channeling 412 horsepower and 390 pound-feet of torque.

Years ago it was inconceivable to have so much power at such a bargain price. This base coupe has more kick than the original V-10-powered Dodge Viper or a Ferrari 360 Modena.

And boy does it pull. At a stop light it yanks you, inexorably, toward the next traffic stop like a leashed bull mastiff, a kind of torque overload that's nearly impossible not to childishly indulge in over and over again.

The sound is bright, raw, delicious.

As for gas mileage, the V-8 manages 17 city and 26 highway and can be run on regular gasoline rather than premium with a slight reduction in power.

As driven, my test car was $42,305. It included most of the convenience and sport options, including navigation, improved Brembo brakes, 19-inch wheels and an electronic stability control meant for spirited driving.

So equipped, the GT was as much or more fun than any European or Japanese car at that same price.

Hard to believe that the Mustang is having its salad days all over again. Its 50th anniversary will be the pony car's next milestone, and the last few generations have shown every long year. Liver spots have included a cranky chassis, worn-out engine and middling electronics.

It got a major refresh last year, which helped considerably, but the V-8 still produced a miserly 315 horses.

The 2011 model, also available with a V-6, is minty fresh. Nicer to look at, better to listen to and easier to live with. Most surprising, it handles competently on swoopy roads.

You see, there have always been those muscle-car motor-heads who soup up American steel just to drag race. It passes for a good time in certain towns -- I should know, I grew up in one.

What those guys would never do is take a Mustang against a European sports car on a windy road. Partly because dudes who listened to Motley Crue and Judas Priest didn't associate with those who dug Depeche Mode and the Smiths -- but also because they'd get their butts kicked.

This Mustang is different. It still has an old-school live rear axle, which is cheap to produce but brutish. Yet engineers have tuned it to the point of elegance. Steady at speed and yet nimble in turns, the Mustang shows a lot of poise even on switchback roads.

I easily sustain a super sprint up and down careening hills, the sound of the 5.0-liters blowing up around me. Even the Fourth of July wasn't so cacophonous and lively.

While available as a six-speed automatic, let me say this: If you don't know how to drive a stick but are thinking of buying the new Mustang, learn. The six-speed, cue-ball-tipped stick is wondrous.

Finally, the interior. Somebody has figured out that the Mustang is more than the sum of its engine and exterior. The seats are comfortable; the two rear seats are somewhat accommodating, and though the interior is mostly plastic, it looks good.

And when I get lost on my wanders, I quickly punch up my location on the optional touch-screen navigation system.

For a thriftier gas and budget point, there's the brand-new 3.7-liter V-6, which gets up to 31 mpg highway with an auto transmission. For a base of $23,000, you still manage a prodigious 305 horses and 280 pound-feet of torque.

I've still got several hours before I need to be home. I don't really have to keep driving -- I've gotten the point -- but, well, seeing as I'm already out here.

That European machine in the garage can wait.

# ? Aug 1, 2010 00:44

BaronW: Apr 16, 2007; Why yes, I HAVE seen uhaul.jpg

So people who are ordering Mustangs, how does that work and what are you paying relative to invoice? Do you just walk in and say "hi, I'd like to order a mustang and I'll pay X, I have my own financing."

# ? Aug 1, 2010 09:24

Offrampmotel: Mar 18, 2006; Guitar God

kronix posted:

I think any premium level GT should have it but not the base.

I have a GT Premium (18") without it

# ? Aug 1, 2010 13:46

kronix: Jul 1, 2004

I'm paying invoice + $250 and that took a lot of effort. I'd walk in, take a test drive, and tell them there's nothing there that's exactly what you want and maybe you want to do a factory order.

That said good luck deciding on the options, my order's been in for a week and now I'm still playing around with it.

# ? Aug 1, 2010 13:47

A.o.D.: Jan 15, 2006; The Suffering of the Succotash.

BaronW posted:

So people who are ordering Mustangs, how does that work and what are you paying relative to invoice? Do you just walk in and say "hi, I'd like to order a mustang and I'll pay X, I have my own financing."

Around where I live (new orleans) Dealerships in the city seem to be charging invoice with no price break. Dealerships on the west bank and the north shore are giving a token price break (a few hundred dollars) just to try and win some business away from the lots in town.

# ? Aug 1, 2010 14:37

Presto: Nov 22, 2002; Keep calm and Harry on.

BaronW posted:

So people who are ordering Mustangs, how does that work and what are you paying relative to invoice? Do you just walk in and say "hi, I'd like to order a mustang and I'll pay X, I have my own financing."

I ended up paying whatever the normal price is for 2 reasons:

I am a huge pussy when it comes to negotiating.
While I was at the dealership, there were 2 or 3 other people there also buying Mustangs at the same time, so it's not like they were desperate for my business anyway.

I kind of get the impression that they're selling them almost as fast as they can get them on the lot, at least around here (Northern Virginia). So they don't really have an incentive to offer much of a deal.

# ? Aug 1, 2010 16:04

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

A.o.D. posted:

Around where I live (new orleans) Dealerships in the city seem to be charging invoice with no price break. Dealerships on the west bank and the north shore are giving a token price break (a few hundred dollars) just to try and win some business away from the lots in town.

Invoice or MSRP?

# ? Aug 1, 2010 17:19

A.o.D.: Jan 15, 2006; The Suffering of the Succotash.

PT6A posted:

Invoice or MSRP?

Sorry, I meant MSRP. They obviously weren't charging actual invoice prices.

# ? Aug 1, 2010 17:36

kronix: Jul 1, 2004

Presto posted:

I ended up paying whatever the normal price is for 2 reasons:

I am a huge pussy when it comes to negotiating.

While I was at the dealership, there were 2 or 3 other people there also buying Mustangs at the same time, so it's not like they were desperate for my business anyway.

I kind of get the impression that they're selling them almost as fast as they can get them on the lot, at least around here (Northern Virginia). So they don't really have an incentive to offer much of a deal.

Keep shopping around because you can absolutely do better than msrp. If you've read the last thread, I had dealers actually hang up on me when I offered the price I eventually got.

If you're paying sticker on an american car you're doing it wrong even on a popular car

# ? Aug 1, 2010 20:45

coolskillrex remix: Jan 1, 2007; gorsh

https://www.costcoauto.com

# ? Aug 1, 2010 22:31

A.o.D.: Jan 15, 2006; The Suffering of the Succotash.

Is it possible to get invoice (sub-invoice??) on a car you order from the factory?

# ? Aug 2, 2010 03:11

BaronW: Apr 16, 2007; Why yes, I HAVE seen uhaul.jpg

A.o.D. posted:

Is it possible to get invoice (sub-invoice??) on a car you order from the factory?

The dealer will still make money with holdover cash if they sell it at invoice but their job is to get as much money out of you as they can.

edit: So when you order a car, do you put money down up front?

BaronW fucked around with this message at 07:24 on Aug 3, 2010

# ? Aug 2, 2010 03:46

kronix: Jul 1, 2004

BaronW posted:

The dealer will still make money with holdover cash if they sell it at invoice but their job is to get as much money out of you as they can.

edit: So when you order a car, do you put money down up front?

I put up $500. I had to give the guy $200 run my credit and another $300 to place the order. The dealer isn't worried about me walking away because he'll sell the car no matter what. If you like crazy colors and weird options be prepared to put down more if the dealer feels like the options you specified aren't right for their market.

I think even the brembos might do it in some markets, as they come with summer tires and let's face it, those are useless in the winter time in the Northern part of the country.

# ? Aug 3, 2010 14:51

A.o.D.: Jan 15, 2006; The Suffering of the Succotash.

BaronW posted:

The dealer will still make money with holdover cash if they sell it at invoice but their job is to get as much money out of you as they can.

edit: So when you order a car, do you put money down up front?

My plan is to put up to 50% down. If my bank's rate is better than what the dealer can offer, then I'll finance through them and from the dealer's perspective I'll be putting down cash.

kronix posted:

I think even the brembos might do it in some markets, as they come with summer tires and let's face it, those are useless in the winter time in the Northern part of the country.

I live in New Orleans. Summer Tires are the only tires.

# ? Aug 3, 2010 15:35

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

kronix posted:

I think even the brembos might do it in some markets, as they come with summer tires and let's face it, those are useless in the winter time in the Northern part of the country.

I'd never go for straight summer tires on my only vehicle because of the possibility of summer storms (it can and does snow in Calgary in the summer, not to mention those occasions when it hails so much that it piles up and acts like snow), but at the same time, I can't imagine anyone in such a climate would drive something as reasonably unsuitable for winter as a Mustang without putting on actual winter tires. I know I plan to get some winter tires.

# ? Aug 3, 2010 15:59

pienipple: Mar 20, 2009; That's wrong!

PT6A posted:

I can't imagine anyone in such a climate would drive something as reasonably unsuitable for winter as a Mustang without putting on actual winter tires. I know I plan to get some winter tires.

People are retarded. My shop had to send out our wrecker to extract a phenomenal idiot from his own driveway because he figured the best way to deal with 18 inches of fresh snow was to put his Mustang in reverse and floor it until it barfed up all it's coolant. Two of our guys went, hooked up the winch to pull him out of the snow and onto the road so they can load him up on the flat bed. They tell him to give it a little bit of gas to help get it moving and stop once it's getting to the edge of the road.

So he floors it into the side of the wrecker. :downs:

We billed him for the damage.

# ? Aug 3, 2010 16:07

kronix: Jul 1, 2004

PT6A posted:

I'd never go for straight summer tires on my only vehicle because of the possibility of summer storms (it can and does snow in Calgary in the summer, not to mention those occasions when it hails so much that it piles up and acts like snow), but at the same time, I can't imagine anyone in such a climate would drive something as reasonably unsuitable for winter as a Mustang without putting on actual winter tires. I know I plan to get some winter tires.

If you plan to daily drive your car, I can't understand using anything but all seasons. From what I understand summer tires are completely useless in the rain as well, who wants a car that can't get you home in a flash rainstorm?

Speaking of winter tires, I'm just curious what other Mustang owners do for the winter. What size rims do you use for winter tires. I'm guessing they don't make 19 inch snow tires and I probably wouldn't want them on my rims anyways.

# ? Aug 3, 2010 17:50

IOwnCalculus: Apr 2, 2003

kronix posted:

If you plan to daily drive your car, I can't understand using anything but all seasons. From what I understand summer tires are completely useless in the rain as well, who wants a car that can't get you home in a flash rainstorm?

Huh? What summer tires are you running? They aren't the absolute best in the rain but they're certainly safe and drivable, as opposed to when things get snowy.

# ? Aug 3, 2010 18:08

Demokracy: Jul 23, 2009

kronix posted:

Speaking of winter tires, I'm just curious what other Mustang owners do for the winter. What size rims do you use for winter tires. I'm guessing they don't make 19 inch snow tires and I probably wouldn't want them on my rims anyways.

19' snow tires are pretty common. Even "performance" 19' snows aren't rare.

# ? Aug 3, 2010 18:14

Kia Soul Enthusias: May 9, 2004; zoom-zoom; Toilet Rascal

Yeah summers are fine in the rain. Well, don't go buying a drag strip tire or whatever.

# ? Aug 3, 2010 18:17

frozenphil: Mar 13, 2003; YOU CANNOT MAKE A MISTAKE SO BIG THAT 80 GRIT CAN'T FIX IT!

kronix posted:

If you plan to daily drive your car, I can't understand using anything but all seasons. From what I understand summer tires are completely useless in the rain as well, who wants a car that can't get you home in a flash rainstorm?

You do know that they make summer tires that can handle the rain, right? The Goodyear GS-D3s I used to run on my Mustang were the best tires I have ever used when it was wet and stuck like a whore in the dry. The General Extreme UHPs I'm running now are basically a copy of those Goodyear GS-D3s and are every bit as good while only running $85/tire.

# ? Aug 3, 2010 18:17

KYOON GRIFFEY JR: Apr 12, 2010; Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

If you actually live somewhere with inclement weather, you should run summers that have decent wet performance in the summer and dedicated winter compound tires in the winter.

All-Seasons are horrible and even the best are really three-season.

# ? Aug 3, 2010 18:32

VibrioCholera: Mar 7, 2003

Bridgestone Blizzak have a "performance vehicle" size option and 19" isn't unheard of. I downsized on my M3 to a 18" 2009 M5 wheel with Blizzaks and the car drives better than everything on the road. If you start looking right about now you may even find some discounted nearly 50% off on Tire Rack. They get rid of them every off season.

I also ran 17" Blizzak on my 96 Cobra when I had it. They were older and sat in a garage a while but the rear end hooked extremely well in the snow. (Run 4 snow tires! I only had 2 because I bought them from a guy who only had 2 he didn't need. It was a temporary fix for the winter when we got our 3-4 snowfalls a year.)

Here are Bridgestone Blizzak LM-60 (I run these in 18" on an E46 M3) in 2011 GT Couple w/ Brembo Brakes:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireS...ating=S&tab=All

Little over a grand for the whole set up. Obviously if you have stock brakes and do research and stuff you could find someone dumping stock wheels. On SN-95 it was a pain if you had a Cobra due to brake size. I don't know how new GT and V6 compare with wheels but if they're interchangeable just buy a whole new set. The hell with having people put tires on and off your nice wheels twice a year. I know 15" Weld Racing wheels ALMOST clear a GT Mustang's rear brakes but probably not the front? So I'm pretty sure there are 17" options out there? The smaller the wheel size the better performance you get out of your winter tire (and drag tires as well - cheaper too!)

edit: Throwing in the "All-Seasons" are useless. The only purpose they serve is to throw on base model cars because most people really don't have any idea what the hell. They're the same ones who don't know what oil weight is, put "mid-grade" gasoline in their Toyotas "because it's better", and consider rain a "FREE CARWASH!!!" Tire Rack has a pretty good test video between winter vs. all-season. Basically all-season are terrible compared to winter tires - no comparison. If you live in a state that never snows there's no reason not to run summer tires year run in my opinion. They're good until like 40 degrees and even then without snow they drive fine on the road. Just don't take an on-ramp at 110 miles an hour when its cold in Florida. (When is this, 3 times a year by fluke?)

Do people really think summer tires = no rain? Maybe if you're running Mickey Thompson E/T Street drag radials everywhere. (I did this - you have to plan your trips around the forecast. Hehe.) Any summer tire will drive perfectly fine in the rain even if it's that Chinese cement company that makes tires. (Ling Long) Right now one of the best cheap performance summer tires out there are the Hankook Ventus V12. They're getting awesome reviews.

VibrioCholera fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Aug 3, 2010

# ? Aug 3, 2010 19:14