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kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad

Omegaslast posted:

I dont think anyone can be stupid enough to think that the mustang v6 is ugly and then say in the same breath that the honda civic si is good looking.
Different strokes for different folks. I can totally imagine a person who very much prefers the Si over the new Mustang. I think both look great (well, the Civic sedan is not that great), but there's no accounting for taste.

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Matlock
Sep 12, 2004

Childs Play Charity 2011 Total: $1755
News: Mustang wildly popular, regardless of application, in Automotive Insanity

Coredump
Dec 1, 2002

kimbo305 posted:

We'll have to see how much the FT-86 weighs. Power-wise, it's obviously outgunned by both the Genesis and the V6 stang, but maybe it'll be noticeably lighter. I just can't wait for all the guys who've been bemoaning the lack of a light, low powered RWD sports coupe to not buy the thing.

The thing is if they do release a low powered rwd coupe they need to price it accordingly. Not in low $20k range which is what is going to happen.

Frank Dillinger
May 16, 2007
Jawohl mein herr!

A5H posted:

Everyone should be making poo poo light and awesome. You can get through safety without weight.

yeah, but have you compared the interior of a new golf versus a golf II?

cars today are a lot bigger than they were 20 years ago, and have a lot more in them. all the multimedia crap, fancy seats, complete interior paneling and sound dampening is pretty heavy, but people want it. then there's the 15 airbags, reinforced doors, 18" wheels, etc, etc, etc.

all this stuff is in there because people shop for the car with the most features, never mind if they'll ever actually need it.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad

Coredump posted:

The thing is if they do release a low powered rwd coupe they need to price it accordingly. Not in low $20k range which is what is going to happen.

Depends on their sales targets and how much they want to scale up this initial model. There's no way in the first year that it can touch the sales of the Mustang, so they'll need to recoup some of the costs of developing this new platform. Even if it's RWD, I don't see it being sold for much cheaper than a Scion tC, which Toyota is probably thinking about replacing.

travisray2004
Dec 2, 2004
SuprMan
I can see why some people don't like the looks of the new Mustang but I say you all are blind :haw:

There won't be any competition from Toyota. I almost guarantee it. IF it makes it to production, it'll be severely watered down, bland, cost more than projected and probably be a Scion (not that it should matter), because it would be a complete contradiction of what Toyota is trying to market the Scion brand as if their sportiest vehicle wore a Toyota badge.

travisray2004 fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Oct 14, 2010

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad
bahahahahaha way to stick to the corporate design language:

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2010/10/first-look-all-new-2011-mazda-bt-50-global-pickup-truck.html

Powershift
Nov 23, 2009


travisray2004 posted:

I can see why some people don't like the looks of the new Mustang but I say you all are blind :haw:

There won't be any competition from Toyota. I almost guarantee it. IF it makes it to production, it'll be severely watered down, bland, cost more than projected and probably be a Scion (not that it should matter), because it would be a complete contradiction of what Toyota is trying to market the Scion brand as if their sportiest vehicle wore a Toyota badge.

It would really be no different than the cobalt SS being faster than any pontiac G5 with pontiac being the "performance" brand. Toyota markets Scion as a youth-targeted brand, they'd have to be nuts to price it any higher than 25 grand.

anyways, CAR NEWS!

Ford dropped the prices on the 2011 base models in canada, you can still see the 2010s on the site to compare.

Fusion: 21,500 -> 20,000
Taurus: 30,000 -> 28,000
Mustang: 24,500 -> 23,000
ranger: 17,800 -> 14,000
F-150: 24,600 -> 20,000

The higher end is still up there, like the $48,000 SHO and the $50,300 raptor, but on the lower end, it does make interenet cross-shopping interesting, and other companies will no doubt be forced to respond. the fusion is $2600 cheaper than the hyundai sonata, and $4000 cheaper than the chevy malibu. Chevy is still sticking with the "keep the price high and offer huge rebates" thing they can revoke at any time, but it seems ford is certain the dollar is going to stay where it is.

Coredump
Dec 1, 2002

kimbo305 posted:

Depends on their sales targets and how much they want to scale up this initial model. There's no way in the first year that it can touch the sales of the Mustang, so they'll need to recoup some of the costs of developing this new platform. Even if it's RWD, I don't see it being sold for much cheaper than a Scion tC, which Toyota is probably thinking about replacing.

If Toyota sold it at Scion tC prices, and the thing made an honest 180 hp like the tC and weighed less than 3300lbs I would be so happy.

Throatwarbler
Nov 17, 2008

by vyelkin
I don't know if anyone else caught this on Autoline's interview with Scion's head honcho, but Scion sales has completely fallen off a cliff since 2008 and while most other car brands including Toyota have stabilized/recovered somewhat, Scion was still down something like 20%-30% from 2009. Reason? Scion was overwhelmingly marketed to the 18-under 30 demographic. Unemployment among 18-30 year olds in the US is >20%, and the near term prospects for young people in America look awful (see every third D&D thread). It's the same for stuff like the Yaris, while sales of the Camry and Prius are doing OK. If Toyota was GM they should be thinking of shuttering the brand, not adding more products to it.

The retro styled cars like Mustang/Camaro will be just fine, since they appeal to both young performance fans and older nostalgics. There are enough :corsair: frozenphils around to keep up Mustang demand for another decade, while the potential Scion buyer has moved back in with his parents and can barely feed himself. Demographics alone will spell the doom of the Hyundai Genesis and this new Toyota.

Throatwarbler fucked around with this message at 00:12 on Oct 15, 2010

coolskillrex remix
Jan 1, 2007

gorsh

Coredump posted:

If Toyota sold it at Scion tC prices, and the thing made an honest 180 hp like the tC and weighed less than 3300lbs I would be so happy.

Really..? 3300 lbs is really not that light. My 99 GT weighs less than that and it makes 260hp and 300 ft/lbs of torque. Maybe if the FT86 came out in 1999 at 3000~ lbs with 180hp it would be a good car. now? not so much.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad
The V6 stang is what, 3500? And packing way more power. I understand that some people will want to a small 2-seater coupe, but if the thing weighs that much, there's a real issue with value. Not from just the stang, either.

Coredump
Dec 1, 2002

Omegaslast posted:

Really..? 3300 lbs is really not that light. My 99 GT weighs less than that and it makes 260hp and 300 ft/lbs of torque. Maybe if the FT86 came out in 1999 at 3000~ lbs with 180hp it would be a good car. now? not so much.

Yeah but your 99 Gt is 11 years old. I didn't know how low to go with modern cars. We'll say within 200 lbs of a Miata.

travisray2004
Dec 2, 2004
SuprMan
Holy poo poo, Ford wasn't kidding. The new Ranger is practically the same size as the F-150 (not really but still...)

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2010/10/first-look-all-new-2011-ford-ranger-t6-global-pickup-truck-debuts.html

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





Throatwarbler posted:

I don't know if anyone else caught this on Autoline's interview with Scion's head honcho, but Scion sales has completely fallen off a cliff since 2008 and while most other car brands including Toyota have stabilized/recovered somewhat, Scion was still down something like 20%-30% from 2009. Reason? Scion was overwhelmingly marketed to the 18-under 30 demographic. Unemployment among 18-30 year olds in the US is >20%, and the near term prospects for young people in America look awful (see every third D&D thread). It's the same for stuff like the Yaris, while sales of the Camry and Prius are doing OK. If Toyota was GM they should be thinking of shuttering the brand, not adding more products to it.

Yeah, but I'm pretty sure the biggest demographic actually buying xBs is the 40-50 year old range.

Beyond marketing, I'm sure a lot of it has to do with products that aren't really compelling. You can't keep selling on "WE'RE UNIQUE" once you've sold a fuckload and you see your exact car all over the place.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad

IOwnCalculus posted:

Yeah, but I'm pretty sure the biggest demographic actually buying xBs is the 40-50 year old range.

The average age of the Scion buyer as of a couple years ago was 36. I think for Toyota on the whole it's high 40s. So while there are definitely plenty of old folks buying them, there is a youth component. In fact, the youth component being unable to buy Scions would explain Throatwarbler's data.
So in that sense, it is a mistake or at least ineffective to pigeonhole the FT86 into Scion, given that it would have no more real effect than if it were a Toyota sports car.

KlementGottwald
Dec 24, 2009

by angerbot

Throatwarbler posted:

The retro styled cars like Mustang/Camaro will be just fine, since they appeal to both young performance fans and older nostalgics. There are enough :corsair: frozenphils around to keep up Mustang demand for another decade, while the potential Scion buyer has moved back in with his parents and can barely feed himself. Demographics alone will spell the doom of the Hyundai Genesis and this new Toyota.

the Genesis sucks because KOREA,

grover
Jan 23, 2002

PEW PEW PEW
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:circlefap::circlefap::circlefap:

kimbo305 posted:

The average age of the Scion buyer as of a couple years ago was 36. I think for Toyota on the whole it's high 40s. So while there are definitely plenty of old folks buying them, there is a youth component. In fact, the youth component being unable to buy Scions would explain Throatwarbler's data.
So in that sense, it is a mistake or at least ineffective to pigeonhole the FT86 into Scion, given that it would have no more real effect than if it were a Toyota sports car.
A good part of their target demographic can't even afford new Scions in a good economy, just used, which doesn't really help Toyota's bottom line.

Throatwarbler
Nov 17, 2008

by vyelkin



Remember back before the new Mustang came out when we couldn't stop posting about the Nissan GTR? The 2012 is out, with the addition of 45 hp and what looks to be the interior of a 1970s Cadillac. I am OK with both of these things. :clint:

b0nes
Sep 11, 2001

Throatwarbler posted:




Remember back before the new Mustang came out when we couldn't stop posting about the Nissan GTR? The 2012 is out, with the addition of 45 hp and what looks to be the interior of a 1970s Cadillac. I am OK with both of these things. :clint:

That looks hot. Now get rid of some of the switches and knobs and that awful steering wheel and we will have something.

Mr. Apollo
Nov 8, 2000

Throatwarbler posted:




Remember back before the new Mustang came out when we couldn't stop posting about the Nissan GTR? The 2012 is out, with the addition of 45 hp and what looks to be the interior of a 1970s Cadillac. I am OK with both of these things. :clint:
Yup, power has been upgraded to 523-hp with a maximum torque of 451 lb-ft of torque available from 3,200 to 6,000 rpm. The Spec-V version has 466 lb-ft of torque. All GTRs also have new VDC programming to improve vehicle balance under heavy braking and new lightweight wheels.

There's also a new "Egoist" version that allows the customer to custom order the vehicle any way they want.

Mr. Apollo fucked around with this message at 17:06 on Oct 18, 2010

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad

grover posted:

A good part of their target demographic can't even afford new Scions in a good economy, just used, which doesn't really help Toyota's bottom line.

I always assumed it was parents buying kids Scions for college. It didn't seem to target the ricer set hellbent on turboing their Civic someday.

DJ Commie
Feb 29, 2004

Stupid drivers always breaking car, Gronk fix car...

kimbo305 posted:

bahahahahaha way to stick to the corporate design language:

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2010/10/first-look-all-new-2011-mazda-bt-50-global-pickup-truck.html

I saw that last night and I nearly died laughing.

Muffinpox
Sep 7, 2004

Throatwarbler posted:




Remember back before the new Mustang came out when we couldn't stop posting about the Nissan GTR? The 2012 is out, with the addition of 45 hp and what looks to be the interior of a 1970s Cadillac. I am OK with both of these things. :clint:

Holy poo poo it's like someone told a Nissan engineer to get their hands on a CTS-V to asses how they need to modify the gtr to deal with the competition and someone brought back an el dorado by mistake.

Muffinpox fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Oct 18, 2010

rscott
Dec 10, 2009
That interior needs some walnut burl and it'll be complete.

echoplex
Mar 5, 2008

Stainless Style
I know the "GTR IZ HUEG" thing has been done to death but I was overtaken by one the other day and it's loving massive, it was taller than the Scirocco and naturally it was wider than the Punto that it overtook next but I'd swear it was the same height or taller.

It's not even like it's design is appropriate for it's size - other supercars are huge, but their size isn't what stands out, it's the style or design - but the key factor with the GTR is that it's a hoofing great car that looks like it was a normal car blown up by about 20%.

I saw one parked next to one of the newer Bentley coupés and the size disparity wasn't as huge as you'd think.

Mr. Apollo
Nov 8, 2000

The GTR is basically the same size as a Ford Mustang or Chevrolet Corvette. I guess compared to a Ferarri or Lamborghini it's large, but it's nothing out of the ordinary.

dissss
Nov 10, 2007

I'm a terrible forums poster with terrible opinions.

Here's a cat fucking a squid.
How does that work? A Corvette and a Mustang aren't even close to the same size.

Mr. Apollo
Nov 8, 2000

2010 Corvette

Height - 48.7"
Length - 175.6"
Width - 75.9"

2010 Mustang

Height - 55.6"
Length - 188.1"
Width - 73.9"

So the Mustang is 7" taller, about a foot longer, and 2" narrower. That seems "pretty close" in size to me.

For comparison purposes the GTR fits in between the Mustang and Corvette in terms of size.

2010 GTR

Height - 54.0"
Length - 183.1"
Width - 74.9"

Mr. Apollo fucked around with this message at 05:08 on Oct 19, 2010

echoplex
Mar 5, 2008

Stainless Style

Mr. Apollo posted:

The GTR is basically the same size as a Ford Mustang or Chevrolet Corvette. I guess compared to a Ferarri or Lamborghini it's large, but it's nothing out of the ordinary.

In this country a Ferarri or Lamborghini is considered a "large" car due to width/length or overall footprint (4x4s and that not withstanding). The Mustang is also seen as a bit of a bloater too by comparison.

grover
Jan 23, 2002

PEW PEW PEW
:circlefap::circlefap::circlefap:
:circlefap::circlefap::circlefap:
:circlefap::circlefap::circlefap:
:circlefap::circlefap::circlefap:
:circlefap::circlefap::circlefap:
:circlefap::circlefap::circlefap:

Mr. Apollo posted:

2010 Corvette

Height - 48.7"
Length - 175.6"
Width - 75.9"

2010 Mustang

Height - 55.6"
Length - 188.1"
Width - 73.9"

So the Mustang is 7" taller, about a foot longer, and 2" narrower. That seems "pretty close" in size to me.

For comparison purposes the GTR fits in between the Mustang and Corvette in terms of size.

2010 GTR

Height - 54.0"
Length - 183.1"
Width - 74.9"
You don't think a foot of length and 7" of height are a huge difference? Also, the mustang is about 350lbs heavier than the corvette. The GTR is 650lbs heavier.

Throatwarbler
Nov 17, 2008

by vyelkin

echoplex posted:

In this country a Ferarri or Lamborghini is considered a "large" car due to width/length or overall footprint (4x4s and that not withstanding). The Mustang is also seen as a bit of a bloater too by comparison.

The Gallardo is dimensionally very similar to a VW Golf, other than being quite a bit lower at the roofline, and the Murcielago is only slightly larger. Is the VW Golf a "large" car?

Mr. Apollo
Nov 8, 2000

grover posted:

You don't think a foot of length and 7" of height are a huge difference?
No, not really.

quote:

Also, the mustang is about 350lbs heavier than the corvette. The GTR is 650lbs heavier.
I'm not surprised, I figured the Corvette would be a lot lighter than the GT-R but I was only looking at external dimensions.

zamin
Jan 9, 2004

Throatwarbler posted:

The Gallardo is dimensionally very similar to a VW Golf, other than being quite a bit lower at the roofline, and the Murcielago is only slightly larger. Is the VW Golf a "large" car?

While this is true for the Gallardo (the Gallardo is 7" longer, 4" narrower than the Golf, but a lot shorter), it's a lot closer to the Corvette (2" shorter and 1" narrower, and only 3" shorter).

davebo
Nov 15, 2006

Parallel lines do meet, but they do it incognito
College Slice

Mr. Apollo posted:

No, not really.

I'm just throwing my hat in with the "1 foot length and 7" height is a large difference" crowd. I do have a C5 though and it's way too wide.

The Third Man
Nov 5, 2005

I know how much you like ponies so I got you a ponies avatar bro

Mr. Apollo posted:

No, not really.

You can't be serious. That's roughly the difference between a 3 and 5 series BMW, and those cars handle very differently. I mean, it's not night and day, but it's certainly not insignificant enough to just lump them into the same category.

Finger Prince
Jan 5, 2007


crossposting from the cellphone pics thread, since this is where the discussion about it all was:

Linedance posted:

I saw a wild Juke just now... It seemed bigger than I thought it would be, but to be honest I think it's pretty cool looking.


Cocoa Crispies
Jul 20, 2001

Vehicular Manslaughter!

Pillbug

Linedance posted:

Juke in the wild
Whoa, that does look bigger than I expected (something maybe a bit larger than a Golf).

Mr. Apollo
Nov 8, 2000

The Third Man posted:

You can't be serious. That's roughly the difference between a 3 and 5 series BMW, and those cars handle very differently. I mean, it's not night and day, but it's certainly not insignificant enough to just lump them into the same category.
I wasn't talking about handling or anything. The original post commented that the GT-R was a huge car, and I just said it wasn't that big it was about the same size as the Corvette and Mustang which are similiar in size. I don't deny they're different cars with different characteristics, I was only commenting on their exterior dimensions.

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dissss
Nov 10, 2007

I'm a terrible forums poster with terrible opinions.

Here's a cat fucking a squid.

Mr. Apollo posted:

I wasn't talking about handling or anything. The original post commented that the GT-R was a huge car, and I just said it wasn't that big it was about the same size as the Corvette and Mustang which are similiar in size. I don't deny they're different cars with different characteristics, I was only commenting on their exterior dimensions.

So a Corolla is a similar size to a Camry? And a Yaris is a similar size to a Corolla?

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