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CornHolio
May 20, 2001

Toilet Rascal

Jealous Cow posted:

After some reflection, even though the Focus looks pretty sweet, it'd be at least $3k more, if not $5k for all the toys. I really don't want to spend more than $20k and I need to draw the line somewhere.

$25k is only $5k away from a new 128i.

Which is only $6k away from a 135i... :q:

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Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

Carnival Rider posted:

I was thinking downpayment/payoff so I could build up my credit. Is that a good idea?

You can as easily build credit by getting a credit card, making a few small purchases, and paying them off without paying any interest.

You don't have to pay some bank a bunch of interest in order to build up good credit.

Google around for credit building. There's lots of advice out there for how to manage your credit score.


As for the "new car" questions: It's maybe worth reiterating that 'maintenance expenses for a used car' is a terrible reason, on its own, to buy a new car.

The amount extra you pay for a new car far outweighs the maintenance on any reasonable beater. OK, if you're driving around in some kind of classic car that requires a $20k restoration, yeah, don't do that. But a 10 or 15 year old toyota 4-runner? Even if you have to replace an automatic transmission, do the brakes, and spend a bunch of money on other smaller items, you're still not going to be out more than like $4k max. That's far cheaper than $20k plus tax and interest on a new car. And a 1990s era toyota engine should keep running for a long, long, long, long time, if you change the oil when you're supposed to.

I'm not saying "don't buy a new car". I'm just saying, be sure you're not just rationalizing something. When I bought a new car in 2005, I did it because I was making enough money to afford one, had never had a new car, and intended to own it for its entire usable life (that is, minimum of 12 years, and if I maintained it right, I hoped to push 20 years). I was well aware that I was spending substantially more money than I had to, for "newness", the excitement of having a thing that is brand new.

Unfortunately this year it was totaled while parked at my house on the 4th of July by a drunk who fled the scene and was not caught. But that's not important right now.

The point is, I didn't try to rationalize my purchase by somehow thinking it made financial sense compared to a quality used vehicle.

Because it doesn't. A new car is never going to be the cheaper option compared to a reasonable used car.

Ring of Light
Sep 3, 2006

I am in a position that I need a new car and I am going to be forced to finance it. However, I have paid for all of my previous cars in cash so I don't really know how to go about purchasing a car with financing. Right now I am looking to borrow around $5000 for 36 months to keep my payment around $150 a month. Should I begin with trying to get the loan or should I find the car first? Where should I start looking for a loan? I bank with Wells Fargo and their website says their rates are starting at 6.99 right now which doesn't sound that great.

moana
Jun 18, 2005

one of the more intellectual satire communities on the web
If you can, try and find a dealer with a promotional rate going on. I was able to get a 5 year 0% APR from Kia, and I'm pretty sure there are good deals just about all the time, from different dealers of course.

Ring of Light
Sep 3, 2006

moana posted:

If you can, try and find a dealer with a promotional rate going on. I was able to get a 5 year 0% APR from Kia, and I'm pretty sure there are good deals just about all the time, from different dealers of course.

I guess I should have been more clear. I am looking to finance 100% of a $5000ish car, not $5000 of a new car. I was under the impression that the promo deals only applied to new vehicles. Am I mistaken?

moana
Jun 18, 2005

one of the more intellectual satire communities on the web
Oh no, I misunderstood, sorry about that!

Nocheez
Sep 5, 2000

Can you spare a little cheddar?
Nap Ghost

Ring of Light posted:

I guess I should have been more clear. I am looking to finance 100% of a $5000ish car, not $5000 of a new car. I was under the impression that the promo deals only applied to new vehicles. Am I mistaken?

Go to a credit union. I was able to fully finance a 1992 Supra in 2004 at a reasonable rate (4 or 5%, been too long to remember). They only let me do a 2-year loan, but that was fine since I paid it off in about 6 months.

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

My wife and I financed $5000 of a $6000 pickup truck when we bought it used in 2000. Her credit union (Patelco) provided the loan.

You will probably not be able to get a great rate with zero down on a used car. If you can come up with even $500 that would be a big help.

Josh Wow
Feb 28, 2005

We need more beer up here!
Anybody have experience with auto auctions? There's one every tuesday one town away and I'm in need of a cheap rear end car so I'm probably going to go to it next week. Just wondering if there's any tips I should know. They have private sellers and have some pretty good looking cars listed.

|Ziggy|
Oct 2, 2004

Leperflesh posted:

:bravo2:

This was somewhat helpful. I want a vehicle that is more fuel efficient than what I currently have, nicer, and newer with amenities never hurts. I can afford a new vehicle, but it would be without a ton of amenities or I could get a used one with the amenities for the same price. I think new would net 18-20k while used would be 16-18k.

I'm in a similar situation as your first car except I could probably make more money. I'm trying to find a new job, but it's a slow process. Other than that, I've never had a brand new car, or car other than the 4-runner for that matter, and I realize the 4-runner will still probably last a while, but the seats are tearing(badly) and other minor problems that I don't want to fix myself. New to me is fine, but I don't know much about cars and don't want to get something that will brake down on me.

How do I know what vehicle is a quality used vehicle? The only things I was thinking were 2008+ and under 30,000 miles, but that could mean nothing for all I know...which is nearly zilch. I know Autotrader.com offers carfax from the sellers. That being said, I'm patient enough to wait it out until I find something that is exactly what I want since my car still runs.

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

When I went to buy a used vehicle earlier this year, this is what I did.

First, I researched the class of vehicles I was interested in (hatchbacks), in the span of years that seemed reasonable (2000+). I asked some questions in the stupid questions thread in AI, too, which got me some good suggestions I hadn't considered. This narrowed things down to about 8 different make/model combos.

Then I hit craigslist for, uh, three or four weeks. I preferred dealerships over private sellers but only mildly. I skipped the obvious scams and any car I was interested in that showed up, I looked up and did more reasearch on that particular model/year.

I also went to local dealerships, endured the various salespeople, and checked out a few cars that I hadn't considered based on research - a used Celica, for example.

I had two solid rules that I stuck to firmly:
-If a salesguy demanded how much I was looking to spend, I gave him $1k below my actual limit and then refused to look at anything higher
-I made it 100% clear from the start that I would not be buying a car that day. Sometimes I needed an excuse so I blamed my wife, that I couldn't possibly buy a car without having her come and check it out first. That's not really true (it's my car, not hers) but it was convenient to take the pressure off and just let me try things, and also acted as an absolute curb against impulse buys.

When I checked out private sales I always told the seller that if I decided I was interested and we could settle on a price, I would need to take the car to my mechanic for an inspection. I did this when I first responded and repeated it when I saw the car in person. I also reiterated the "will not buy it today" rule. A few people seemed turned off by this but I feel that's fine - anyone who is desperate to sell today might be desperate for money, or might be hoping you won't notice a serious defect. I'm cautious enough about the latter to not worry about the former.

In the end I bought a 2003 Mazda Protege5 hatchback with only 39k miles on it from an Infiniti dealership for $8500 plus tax. With the exception of one big repaired scratch and some marring on the bumper, it was in excellent condition inside and out. I think I got a pretty good deal.

The key elements for me were:
1. I did my homework and knew what I wanted in a car.
2. I did my homework on specific cars so I could avoid anything suspicious, overpriced, or with a bad reputation
3. I was very patient. The whole process took about a month. I had the luxury of having a second vehicle on hand so while it was inconvenient to share between my wife an I occasionally, I had no real pressure to pick something before I was ready
4. I set specific limits on budget and stuck to them.

To answer a few of your other questions;

Regarding reliability. First, understand that virtually all cars made and sold in the last decade are vastly more reliable than virtually all cars made and sold even 20 years ago. There are a tiny number of exceptions but in general, cars are better than ever. They last longer, are put together better, and (especially) are much, much safer in an accident. Lots of old people don't understand this and will tell you things that were wise and true in their day but really aren't any longer. Things like "don't ever buy a car with more than 50k miles on it!" was good advice in 1965 but is total crap today.

That said, there is obviously lots of variation between contemporary cars in reliability. You can check Edmunds and Kelly and cars.com, and others, for survey-based ratings on reliability. You can also check forums and google for posts about problems, but take those much less seriously; every car ever made has some kind of problem, and anyone who ran into that problem is very likely to view it as having been a horrible experience that scarred them for life and obviously means that car was total poo poo, etc. etc.

By the same token, some people have a fanatical loyalty to certain brands and cars, based on rumor, popular opinion, and subjective experience. You can take that as being an unreliable indicator that is somewhat worth noticing.

The big ones are: honda and toyota make bulletproof cars that last forever! And, domestics (ford, chevy, chrysler) are poo poo!

In both cases that's much less true today than it was 10 years ago. Yet, toyotas and hondas still carry an aftermarket price premium due to that perception, and domestics are still generally pretty cheap used, again due to that perception.

|Ziggy| posted:

I want a vehicle that is more fuel efficient than what I currently have, nicer, and newer with amenities never hurts.

I think you can definitely get that. 30MPG is very achievable across a wide range of compacts, coupes, and smaller sedans. Aside from a handful of bargain-basement cars, most cars sold since 2000 or so have lots of features standard that used to be options: it's actually getting pretty hard to find manual windows and locks, many cars have standard alloy wheels, and practically all of them have an array of airbags, improved side impact features, and anti-lock brakes.

quote:

I can afford a new vehicle, but it would be without a ton of amenities or I could get a used one with the amenities for the same price. I think new would net 18-20k while used would be 16-18k.

I think you're maybe a little off, there. If you can buy a given new car for $18k, you should be able to find an example used 4-years-earlier in good condition for roughly $10k or so. For $18k you can buy a used semi-luxury car, something like a Volvo, BMW or Audi, with under 100k miles.

Hondas and Toyotas are an exception though. They hold their value very very well (because of that perception of longevity), so much so that I don't recommend them at all to a used buyer unless they're buying in the ~$3k to $4k beater segment - e.g., they want a car with a good engine despite a lot of miles, and don't care in the slightest about condition or appearance besides that.

So if you are willing to accept a Mazda, Nissan, BMW, Audi, VW, Volvo, or (gasp!) even a domestic car like a ford or chevy, or (double-gasp!) a quality well-optioned low-miles Hyundai, your budget is pretty good.

quote:

Other than that, I've never had a brand new car, or car other than the 4-runner for that matter, and I realize the 4-runner will still probably last a while, but the seats are tearing(badly) and other minor problems that I don't want to fix myself. New to me is fine, but I don't know much about cars and don't want to get something that will brake down on me.

You can definitely have someone else repair every minor and cosmetic problem on your car, and also have it repainted and detailed and have a major service done, for less money than you will spend buying a new car.

If you buy a car made in the last 10 years and with less than maybe 150k miles or so on it, you'll spend much less money having it repaired at a quality shop, than you will on the difference between that car and a brand new car.

Having your car break down on you is actually pretty unlikely for any reasonable $18k car. E.g., not a car that was sold new for $40k and is $18k because it's now horribly beaten up, and also not a car that was $18k because it's a restored classic or Jaguar or something ridiculous like that. But your basic $18k used car made since 2000 that hasn't been in an accident? If you keep up on your regular scheduled maintenance you'll be pretty unlikely to break down, uh, ever, really.

And what's so terrible about breaking down? Get free towing added to your insurance (it's crazy cheap) and the worst you'll suffer is a one or two hour inconvenience. Get your insurance to add a loaner to the policy so you don't have to be car-less while it's in the shop. Again, doing both of those things, indefinitely, will still be cheaper than buying a new car.

quote:

How do I know what vehicle is a quality used vehicle? The only things I was thinking were 2008+ and under 30,000 miles, but that could mean nothing for all I know...which is nearly zilch.

I think you're seriously over-worried about reliability. Do you live somewhere where they heavily salt the roads and all cars rust out after 5 years or something? Becuase seriously, 30k on a car is nothing these days. Nothing. Any reasonable car engine should last at least 150k miles. I mean a 2008 with 30k miles is still in warranty! It's practically still new.

But if you must do that, avoid honda and toyota and you'll still save substantially over a new car. If I were you I'd open up horizons a bit and accept back to at least like 2006, and up to like 60k miles or so.

quote:

I know Autotrader.com offers carfax from the sellers. That being said, I'm patient enough to wait it out until I find something that is exactly what I want since my car still runs.

Excellent. This attitude will take you far.

Hope I didn't create too much of a wall of text. Good luck!

e. Oh yeah, one more thing. Every single dealership will ask you if you can trade in your old car. They all want you to do this. Absolutely all of them, with no exceptions, will give you a small fraction of what your car is actually worth. You will get at least double, selling it privately, vs. trade-in. The trade in is also an opportunity for them to overprice the car you're buying: they'll start with their "asking price", reduce by the (deflated) value of your trade-in, and then stick at that figure.

Whereas you should view every price on a used car lot as being a goofy suggestion. The first thing I always asked when I saw a car I might consider was something like "can you work with me on this price?" I almost always got a "hmm, well, yeah, I think so". This attitude tended to improve the closer to the end of the month it got (because most sales departments have monthly numbers they're trying to hit, and are willing to cut a deal to get there). Add in the "I'm not buying today I gotta ask the wife" routine and they start to actually be convinced if they won't cut me a deal I'm gonna walk.

Which is true.

The sticker price on my $8500 Protege5 was $9999.

So, if you actually are considering a trade-in, you absolutely must not let on that this is the case until after you've negotiated down their asking price to the lowest you can get. Then you ask what they'll give you for trade-in, so you're actually getting value against the "real" price of the car, and not the pretend asking price for suckers.

Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 08:22 on Oct 22, 2010

|Ziggy|
Oct 2, 2004

Leperflesh posted:

:bravo2:

This is extremely helpful. Thank you for taking the time to write that up.

sanchez
Feb 26, 2003
It's a good post, but wow those Mazdas are expensive.

The Bunk
Sep 15, 2007

Oh, I just don't know
where to begin.
Fun Shoe

Leperflesh posted:

:words:

Yeah that was really good. I'm in a similar situation as far as what I'm interested in and how much I want to spend in the next year or so, so your post really helped.

I was thinking about getting a new Hyundai Elantra GT. I'm a USAA member so through the car buying service I can get it for under $14k. I keep my cars for a long time (my current car is a 98 Saturn I've had for 10 years). With that said, I'm leaning more toward spending maybe half as much on a used car that will last over half as long. Something like a Focus or Elantra with under 60k or so. Am I on the right track?

Edit: I'm pretty early in the process as you can tell. I'm aiming for a next summer purchase unless something goes horribly wrong with the Saturn.

The Bunk fucked around with this message at 15:24 on Oct 22, 2010

sanchez
Feb 26, 2003
It's hard to argue against buying new at that price level to me given the amount of time you'll keep the car. You get the excellent warranty and the knowledge that the last owner didn't run the car 20k between oil changes.

alreadybeen
Nov 24, 2009
I was looking for something very similar to you about six months ago. My old car was falling apart on the inside and would occasionally give me heart attacks that it wouldn't start.

Pretty quickly I decided I want to buy used as the value proposition is just so much stronger. However I didn't want to go too old so I focused my search on cars less than three years old and under 40,000 miles. After I decided on that I started to focus on make and model. One benefit of my job is I rent a car every week so have been in a huge variety of cars and had an idea of what I wanted (mid size four door). The models I immediately focused on were:

Toyta Camry
Honda Accord
Nissan Altima
Ford Fusion
Hyundai Sonata
Mazda 6

I got in all of them at a variety of dealerships and got a feel for each one. One thing I quickly found out is that about 50% of all the cars I was looking at were in fact ex-rentals. At first I was off put by this but did a bunch of reading and came to the conclusion it was not a big detriment. Rental cars are maintained reliably and when you're buying a slow mid-size car, it's not like people are beating the crap out of them. I'll admit I was first biased towards the Toyota and Honda based on the cars my family and friends have had and just how solid they are, but they really do command a premium as a used car. Every one of them I found either had more miles, was more expensive, or had no options. I liked the fusion but there weren't a ton of them around me for some reason and the few I checked out had issues (one had three inches of water in the bottom of the trunk?!). I got in the Mazda and just didn't like it from a personal preference and the fact it was a little bit more expensive.

That left the Nissan and the Hyundai, these were the two winners of this list for me. Once I had narrowed it down I did a ton of research on both of them, down to which years had certain issues, recall information etc. Both of them were fine cars but a couple things really helped me make a final decision. The Nissan's were slightly more expensive, typically had slightly fewer options, and the biggest was didn't have as good of warranty. After two months of searching I finally decided on the Hyundai Sonata.

Once I had picked out the Sonata I looked at every dealership in a 50 mile radius and pulled their used inventory. I wanted to buy from a Hyundai dealership because that was the only way to get it certified pre-owned which transferred the 10year/100,000 mile power train warranty. I ended up pulling about 150 Sonatas in total (benefit of living in a large metro area) and compiled a list of year/VIN/miles/list price/clean history. I then spent about three weekends driving around to different dealerships and test driving several dozen.

I would negotiate a price and then usually walk out to see what would happen while I was doing these test drives. In general the sticker on the lot was about $1000-$2000 higher than was listed on the internet. They would open saying they could come a couple hundred off the sticker but that was it. I would always bring a print out of a car I was serious about and show that to them. I would say in general I was able to negotiate another $500-700 off the internet price. So a car listed for $16,500 on the lot was listed for $15,000 online I could get down to maybe $14,200-$14,500. If I started walking off I could usually get another couple hundred down off the price, but that was about it. I did the hard walk out on numerous places and didn't get any further than that.

At one dealership I finally found a car that had impeccable service records (oil charges every 3000 miles, all scheduled maintained performed at a dealership, and all recorded). It also was not a rental but was a traveling sales man car - 35,000 miles in 2 years. It had every single option aside from navigation which was the one option I didn't want. Negotiated with almost the exact same results and finally made a deal. I always did negotiations with the 'out the door' price. After any taxes, fees, etc. I also paid cash so I didn't play any financing games. They inspected the car, replaced the rear brake pads since they didn't have enough life left to meet the pre-owned inspection criteria.

When we were checking out used cars, the saleswoman asked if I wanted to check out new cars. I didn't really want to buy one but said sure to check it out. Base model new cars were $19k and ones with the options were $24k-26k. I am glad I looked because it basically re-affirmed my decision to buy used. In the end I could not be happier. I still have the manufacturer bumper-bumper warrant for another 2.5 years / 20,000 miles which at my driving rate should happen around the same time. Because I bought CPO from the dealership I also have the extended 10year/100k warranty. The interior of the car reminds me more of an upscale Lexus/Acura/Infiniti than a Toyota or Honda. I could not be happier with my purchase.

The warranty is comically better than other companies, the interior is nice for the price, and it's more affordable than the Japanese imports.

Saltin
Aug 20, 2003
Don't touch

sanchez posted:

It's hard to argue against buying new at that price level to me given the amount of time you'll keep the car. You get the excellent warranty and the knowledge that the last owner didn't run the car 20k between oil changes.

One of the other big benefits is dealer financing for new cars can often mean the loan is practically (if not completely) free. Infiniti just gave me 2.9% on a 4 year purchase for a new G37. The best my bank would give me was 4.5%, and I am a good customer. Even with the pay cash incentives dealers offer (which can sometimes offset the higher interest rate the bank charges), it still made sense to go with Infiniti financing.

Saltin fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Oct 22, 2010

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

Narwhale posted:

Yeah that was really good. I'm in a similar situation as far as what I'm interested in and how much I want to spend in the next year or so, so your post really helped.

I was thinking about getting a new Hyundai Elantra GT. I'm a USAA member so through the car buying service I can get it for under $14k. I keep my cars for a long time (my current car is a 98 Saturn I've had for 10 years). With that said, I'm leaning more toward spending maybe half as much on a used car that will last over half as long. Something like a Focus or Elantra with under 60k or so. Am I on the right track?

Edit: I'm pretty early in the process as you can tell. I'm aiming for a next summer purchase unless something goes horribly wrong with the Saturn.

I don't think you could go wrong with either of those cars, assuming you pick a good example. The new Elantra isn't a terrible choice either, but you're definitely still paying a premium for it.

I like alreadybeen's post too. It's true that if you insist on a car that's only two or three years old, and you're also looking in certain segments, you'll see a lot of rental re-sales. (And for slightly more expensive cars in the 4-year zone, lots of lease returns, which is another bag of chips.) People seem to have mixed opinions about them; they're well maintained (no missed oil changes, etc.) and should have complete records of that; but also driven by people who don't care in the slightest about what happens to them. Kind of a mixed bag. Some folks swear by them and some insist they'd never touch one.

Also Saltin brings up a good point; I was speaking entirely on the basis of paying cash. If you need financing, you can finance a used car, but you'll probably get a better deal from a credit union. Whereas on a new car, assuming your credit is good, dealers often can offer amazing financing deals. Just be aware that a lot of the time, their amazing finance deal is instead of a rebate. So it's not actually amazing at all! If you are forgoing a rebate for a nice finance deal, you are effectively paying cash up front instead of interest down the line. Better do the math and find out if you're actually saving anything at all on that deal.

The Bunk
Sep 15, 2007

Oh, I just don't know
where to begin.
Fun Shoe

Leperflesh posted:

I don't think you could go wrong with either of those cars, assuming you pick a good example. The new Elantra isn't a terrible choice either, but you're definitely still paying a premium for it.

I like alreadybeen's post too. It's true that if you insist on a car that's only two or three years old, and you're also looking in certain segments, you'll see a lot of rental re-sales. (And for slightly more expensive cars in the 4-year zone, lots of lease returns, which is another bag of chips.) People seem to have mixed opinions about them; they're well maintained (no missed oil changes, etc.) and should have complete records of that; but also driven by people who don't care in the slightest about what happens to them. Kind of a mixed bag. Some folks swear by them and some insist they'd never touch one.

Also Saltin brings up a good point; I was speaking entirely on the basis of paying cash. If you need financing, you can finance a used car, but you'll probably get a better deal from a credit union. Whereas on a new car, assuming your credit is good, dealers often can offer amazing financing deals. Just be aware that a lot of the time, their amazing finance deal is instead of a rebate. So it's not actually amazing at all! If you are forgoing a rebate for a nice finance deal, you are effectively paying cash up front instead of interest down the line. Better do the math and find out if you're actually saving anything at all on that deal.

Thanks for the input, guys. I'm sure I'll have more questions as I start looking more seriously. As far as financing, if I end up going that route I'm a member of a credit union and USAA, so I should be able to shop around a bit.

Saltin
Aug 20, 2003
Don't touch

Leperflesh posted:

Also Saltin brings up a good point; I was speaking entirely on the basis of paying cash. If you need financing, you can finance a used car, but you'll probably get a better deal from a credit union. Whereas on a new car, assuming your credit is good, dealers often can offer amazing financing deals. Just be aware that a lot of the time, their amazing finance deal is instead of a rebate. So it's not actually amazing at all! If you are forgoing a rebate for a nice finance deal, you are effectively paying cash up front instead of interest down the line. Better do the math and find out if you're actually saving anything at all on that deal.

You've got to do the math for sure, and I tried to point that out but didnt do such a good job I guess. Cash purchase credits are just that - you don't get them if you finance through the dealer. Don't confuse them with rebates though.. that's a different incentive you should be able to get regardless of how you pay. Anyway, with cash purchase credits you've got to look at the dealers financing rate, compare it to the bank's rate against the lower purchase price and then crunch over the term of the loan. One will be cheaper across the amortization period. Choose that one.

For me it was to take the 2.9% from the dealer, but the loan amount is significantly more than most cars people are talking about here, even after I put 20% down cash, so even a couple of points of interest make a big difference across the term!

Shadowhand00
Jan 23, 2006

Golden Bear is ever watching; day by day he prowls, and when he hears the tread of lowly Stanfurd red,from his Lair he fiercely growls.
Toilet Rascal
I have a question about purchasing a car that is obviously upside down right now for its owner.

I will first post parts of his email for your enjoyment/education:

Upside Down Man posted:

I'll show you all the paperwork. And I'm selling it below KBB...they're rare,they sale good and they LAST longer. I've never had any problems with mine whatsoever. I've always done preventive maintenance so I won't have to deal with problems.I still owe 16K on it and I will have 3000K to cover up myself with the bank.

So first, he's trying to sell a car for well over the KBB value. With the mileage he has on the car, he really should be selling this car at around 10k. (he's trying to sell for 13999) So, he's about 6000 under this loan, and as a result, doesn't even hold the title to the car.

That being said, here is the other kicker:

quote:

The only reason I'm selling it is that my wife can't drive manual and we're fighting non-stop :-) I have a 14 months daughter and a one month old baby. I need and SUV. I HATE selling it after I put all this money into it,water pump,rotors,FULL colling system,belts,brakes..but I don't have a choice. I need an bigger car more room...something like a Q7.

I have no idea how negotiable this guy will be on the price of his car. Is this just a situation I should immediately walk away from regardless of the financials and price involved or is even attempting to negotiate a lower deal worth it for me? I have no real experience purchasing a car off a guy who's upside down, so any advice would be appreciated.

|Ziggy|
Oct 2, 2004
If he owes 3000k to the bank he's got a lot more problems than needing a different vehicle... Also, he writes and presumably speaks Engrish liek dis. I would not deal with that personally. Make sure he actually owns the title to the vehicle if you pursue this.

CornHolio
May 20, 2001

Toilet Rascal
He's upside-down on the car, and wants to sell it to get a GIANT HONKIN SUV because his two kids won't fit into whatever he has now?

What kind of car is he trying to sell?

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

He's underwater on the loan, so even if you manage to haggle him way down, you're still not getting much of a bargain.

Why not find the same car owned outright by someone, so when you make a lower offer, they are actually free to consider it?

Shadowhand00
Jan 23, 2006

Golden Bear is ever watching; day by day he prowls, and when he hears the tread of lowly Stanfurd red,from his Lair he fiercely growls.
Toilet Rascal

CornHolio posted:

He's upside-down on the car, and wants to sell it to get a GIANT HONKIN SUV because his two kids won't fit into whatever he has now?

What kind of car is he trying to sell?

He's trying to sell a 330i ZHP.

Leperflesh posted:

Why not find the same car owned outright by someone, so when you make a lower offer, they are actually free to consider it?

I'm more than likely going to do this. I was just wondering how the entire process worked - would I need to go to the Bank with him in order to make actually get the title? Are there additional fees associated with this process?

CornHolio
May 20, 2001

Toilet Rascal

Shadowhand00 posted:

He's trying to sell a 330i ZHP.

Ah. Ah-ha. Owch.

I do know that the ZHPs are incredibly rare and highly sought after, especially with paperwork. I don't know if the KBB reflects that so he may be more accurate in his pricing than you think. Best to check with AI or some other forums to see what ZHPs go for these days.

Those are cars that people scour craigslist and autotrader for months upon months and when they finally find one, they fly thousands of miles to pick it up.

BTW an E46 is plenty big for two kids :mad: Unless they're obese or something.

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

Oh. Well, if its a very rare car, you're not going to get him to budge on his price if he knows other people will pay it.

If the bank still holds the title, yeah, he's got to pay off the entire loan, and then the bank mails the title, which can take like a month. I have no idea how to do that transaction faster, and I suppose it depends on what bank.

Don Lapre
Mar 28, 2001

If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.

Shadowhand00 posted:

He's trying to sell a 330i ZHP.


I'm more than likely going to do this. I was just wondering how the entire process worked - would I need to go to the Bank with him in order to make actually get the title? Are there additional fees associated with this process?

Yes, go to the bank with him. Pay off the loan with him at the bank. Get title sent to you.

Uziel
Jun 28, 2004

Ask me about losing 200lbs, and becoming the Viking God of W&W.
I wanted to get some opinions regarding a minivan purchase. We are pretty set on a minivan at this point versus an SUV. We don't really need it until June at the latest so I'm not in a hurry.

My budget is variable depending on the loan. Failing great deals from the dealership, my bank is penfed with their 1.99% APR/60 months for new or used. I'm well aware that the final price of the car should be your negotiating point, but from my end a less than $300 payment per month would be ideal.

I would be trading in one of my vehicles, both of which are paid off:
2005 Chevy Aveo, 4DR Sedan LS, 61k miles ~$3k trade in?
2002 Honda Civic, 4DR Sedan LX, 95k miles ~3.5k trade in?

I'm pretty confused between all of my options.
A brand new Dodge Grand Caravan is ~$24,000 and they offer 0% APR for 60, or 1.99 for 72 months. (Payment around $330).

A brand new Mazda5 starts at like $18,600. No special offers from the dealer, but with Penfed, ~$300 monthly. Would need to test drive this to see if I fit since I'm slightly under 6'3".

Things like a new Kia, Honda or Toyota would be pushing past $400 per month no matter how I try to crunch the numbers and just too much.

When I get to used, things are even more confusing. Used, my options open up to Honda, Toyota, Kia, plus the above manufacturers. Reliability, and safety are equally and most important to me.

Just curious if anyone has bought a minivan, or could at least offer another set of eyes and give me their thoughts with this specific circumstance?

Don Lapre
Mar 28, 2001

If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.
The new odyssey just came out which means you should be able to get a late model last gen for a good price. If you are gonna buy a minivan, you cant really beat them.

Uziel
Jun 28, 2004

Ask me about losing 200lbs, and becoming the Viking God of W&W.

Don Lapre posted:

The new odyssey just came out which means you should be able to get a late model last gen for a good price. If you are gonna buy a minivan, you cant really beat them.
If I could find one that was a bit closer to my price ranger, I'd go for that in a heart beat. But, searching around on autotrader shows nothing within a 100 mile radius.

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





I had a Mazda5 as a rental and - for being a minivan - I loved it. I'm 6'4" and I fit in it fine, but keep in mind it is much smaller than every other minivan on the market. It's available only with four-cylinder engines and really does show off the fact that it is a Mazda3 with a different body configuration. My daily driver is a Mazdaspeed3 and I fit just fine in that too - the seating position, at least in the front row, is near identical.

Whether the fact that it's a rebodied Mazda3 is a positive or not is up to your situation. You won't be able to get the sheer volume of things into it like you would any of the others, but you can still get a lot into it. It drives very much like the Mazda3, so it feels much more like a compact car than a minivan. From purely that perspective, I doubt any of the others could top it, but if you want to move sheer massive quantities of stuff it may come up short.

On the others, the Odyssey is a solid recommendation. Kia seems to make a good one too; my sister just picked up a used '09.

Also, of the trade-ins? I'd trade the Aveo. It's already worth less than the Civic and will continue to slide even lower, whereas depending on where you're at, as long as the Civic is in decent shape it won't go much below where it's at.

You should also consider whether or not to trade. If you trade, you may pay less in sales tax, but you're also getting less back than if you sold it outright. The Aveo you could probably sell quickly on your own for $3500-$4000. Put the Civic on Craigslist for $4k cash and I bet you move it within a day, $4500-$5k would still be fair.

Grumpwagon
May 6, 2007
I am a giant assfuck who needs to harden the fuck up.

I'd definitely try a Mazda5, or if you can wait for it, a Ford C-Max. Personally, I'd much rather drive either of those.

Don Lapre
Mar 28, 2001

If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.

Uziel posted:

If I could find one that was a bit closer to my price ranger, I'd go for that in a heart beat. But, searching around on autotrader shows nothing within a 100 mile radius.

Have you checked craigslist?

Uziel
Jun 28, 2004

Ask me about losing 200lbs, and becoming the Viking God of W&W.

IOwnCalculus posted:

I had a Mazda5 as a rental and - for being a minivan - I loved it. I'm 6'4" and I fit in it fine, but keep in mind it is much smaller than every other minivan on the market. It's available only with four-cylinder engines and really does show off the fact that it is a Mazda3 with a different body configuration. My daily driver is a Mazdaspeed3 and I fit just fine in that too - the seating position, at least in the front row, is near identical.

Whether the fact that it's a rebodied Mazda3 is a positive or not is up to your situation. You won't be able to get the sheer volume of things into it like you would any of the others, but you can still get a lot into it. It drives very much like the Mazda3, so it feels much more like a compact car than a minivan. From purely that perspective, I doubt any of the others could top it, but if you want to move sheer massive quantities of stuff it may come up short.

On the others, the Odyssey is a solid recommendation. Kia seems to make a good one too; my sister just picked up a used '09.

Also, of the trade-ins? I'd trade the Aveo. It's already worth less than the Civic and will continue to slide even lower, whereas depending on where you're at, as long as the Civic is in decent shape it won't go much below where it's at.

You should also consider whether or not to trade. If you trade, you may pay less in sales tax, but you're also getting less back than if you sold it outright. The Aveo you could probably sell quickly on your own for $3500-$4000. Put the Civic on Craigslist for $4k cash and I bet you move it within a day, $4500-$5k would still be fair.
The Mazda 5 is at the top of my list. Good to know that I'll likely fit into it comfortably. We had talked about just getting a roomier sedan so I did know that the 5 drives like one. The sliding doors and cargo room are a big plus.

As long as two adults can sit in the front, and two car infant/child car seats can fit in the middle row, and there still be cargo room, that would be perfect.

Currently, two car seats won't fit in the Aveo or Civic without both front seats being push all of the way up, and they both have tiny trunks.

Other than kids, strollers, and groceries we don't really ever haul anything.

I'll still want to test drive one with two car seats put in just to see.

I did check craiglist. Unfortunately, the car market in Pittsburgh sucks and craiglist is pretty empty.

I guess the fact there is almost no used Mazda market is a good thing? I saw maybe one used Mazda 5 and the price was closer to that of a new model even though it had 30k miles and was two years old.

alreadybeen
Nov 24, 2009
Mazda 5 are semi popular rental cars, you might be able to find a couple new ones with high miles. I was looking for Hyundai's and a lot were rentals. You know they were maintained, and I doubt any seriously was too hard on a four cylinder minivan.

Don Lapre
Mar 28, 2001

If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.

Uziel posted:

The Mazda 5 is at the top of my list. Good to know that I'll likely fit into it comfortably. We had talked about just getting a roomier sedan so I did know that the 5 drives like one. The sliding doors and cargo room are a big plus.

As long as two adults can sit in the front, and two car infant/child car seats can fit in the middle row, and there still be cargo room, that would be perfect.

Currently, two car seats won't fit in the Aveo or Civic without both front seats being push all of the way up, and they both have tiny trunks.

Other than kids, strollers, and groceries we don't really ever haul anything.

I'll still want to test drive one with two car seats put in just to see.

I did check craiglist. Unfortunately, the car market in Pittsburgh sucks and craiglist is pretty empty.

I guess the fact there is almost no used Mazda market is a good thing? I saw maybe one used Mazda 5 and the price was closer to that of a new model even though it had 30k miles and was two years old.

If the distance in the mazda 5 between the front and rear seats is the same as the mazda 3, then you need to be careful about what infant seats you use. We had a graco that required the seats to be pushed way forward, but our first years seat fit really well.

Uziel
Jun 28, 2004

Ask me about losing 200lbs, and becoming the Viking God of W&W.

Don Lapre posted:

If the distance in the mazda 5 between the front and rear seats is the same as the mazda 3, then you need to be careful about what infant seats you use. We had a graco that required the seats to be pushed way forward, but our first years seat fit really well.
Hm, we have one from The First Years (http://www.walmart.com/ip/First-Years-True-Fit-Car/10226644)
and one Graco snug ride (http://www.gracobaby.com/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductID=8F09BAR3)

So, that concerns me as we'd need to get both of them in the middle row and still have leg room.

Don Lapre
Mar 28, 2001

If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.

Uziel posted:

Hm, we have one from The First Years (http://www.walmart.com/ip/First-Years-True-Fit-Car/10226644)
and one Graco snug ride (http://www.gracobaby.com/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductID=8F09BAR3)

So, that concerns me as we'd need to get both of them in the middle row and still have leg room.

Take them to a mazda dealership, they will probably let you test fit them.

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IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





Don Lapre posted:

Take them to a mazda dealership, they will probably let you test fit them.

Probably? Honestly, any dealership that wouldn't let you do this to buy what is almost exclusively used as a family hauler for people with young kids would just be pissing away money and sales.

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