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Soylent Pudding
Jun 22, 2007

We've got people!


Zealous Abattoir posted:

Can someone explain to me whats up with due process and how it affects how private colleges work with their students? I mean, I tried to read up upon the subject last night to understand her argument, but either I really am dumb (which I probably am) or she is talking out of her rear end.

Haven't taken Con Law in law school yet, but I spent several years working with my undergrad institution's office of student conduct. Basically due process has nothing to do with how private colleges work with their students. Public institutions are governed by the due process clauses of the federal and relevant state's constitutions. Your rights with respect to a private institution are governed under contract law with the contract being the school's code of conduct. Even if the school has a provision explicitly allowing disruptive students to remain in class, the case would not be a question of due process but of contract law.

In summary, she is completely off base and in for a rude awakening very shortly.

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entris
Oct 22, 2008

by Y Kant Ozma Post

Zealous Abattoir posted:

I have a question. I attend a private college, and my favorite professor kicked this girl out of the classroom for being disruptive. He had previously warned her that if she continued her disruptive behavior she would have to leave the classroom and next class she continued, so he did. She refused, so he called the police, who came and had to resort in physically removing her from the school. She claims her 14th amendment rights were breached because they deprived her of due process. I am kind worried about my Prof and the school, because this bitch is crazy.

I agree with what the other poster said - due process won't kick in with a private entity like a private college, it's more of an issue of contract rights vis-a-vis student and university.

However, let's assume due process does apply. Your right to "due process" means that the government cannot take away your liberty without "due process" - which usually means, at the minimum, that you were given notice and an opportunity for a hearing if possible. Here, crazy girl was given prior warnings that she would be kicked out if she continued to disrupt class. There's her notice.

He then called the police and kicked her out of class - should she have gotten a hearing before she got kicked out? Of course not, that would be ridiculous - what, the school has to convene a panel of administrators in the middle of the class, just to decide if she can be removed from class? That is unreasonable. I don't think "due process" has any help to offer her.

gvibes
Jan 18, 2010

Leading us to the promised land (i.e., one tournament win in five years)

entris posted:

He then called the police and kicked her out of class - should she have gotten a hearing before she got kicked out? Of course not, that would be ridiculous - what, the school has to convene a panel of administrators in the middle of the class, just to decide if she can be removed from class? That is unreasonable. I don't think "due process" has any help to offer her.
Yeah, she could argue that this was against some sort of internal policy or something, but I doubt that they forbid kicking a disruptive student out of class before having a hearing or whatever.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Zealous Abattoir posted:

Can someone explain to me whats up with due process and how it affects how private colleges work with their students? I mean, I tried to read up upon the subject last night to understand her argument, but either I really am dumb (which I probably am) or she is talking out of her rear end.
She has no rights at a private college.
She was asked to leave private property. She did not. Boom.

Due process applies nowhere in this as far as the prof is concerned.

Wyatt
Jul 7, 2009

NOOOOOOOOOO.

Zealous Abattoir posted:

Can someone explain to me whats up with due process and how it affects how private colleges work with their students? I mean, I tried to read up upon the subject last night to understand her argument, but either I really am dumb (which I probably am) or she is talking out of her rear end.

She is talking out of her rear end.

quazi
Apr 19, 2002

data control

entris posted:

Just try talking it over with a manager/supervisor of your complex, explain the issue, and get them to waive the fee. This isn't worth hiring a lawyer, and it probably isn't worth the hassle of going to small claims.
They called back this morning and said they waived it.

drat, I was looking forward to printing an oversize check and presenting it to them as if they won the sweepstakes.

entris
Oct 22, 2008

by Y Kant Ozma Post

quazi posted:

They called back this morning and said they waived it.

drat, I was looking forward to printing an oversize check and presenting it to them as if they won the sweepstakes.

Hooray!

You may be one of the few success stories from this thread...

...too bad that none of us lawgoons actually did anything to help you. (Just more evidence that law degrees are overvalued.)

quazi
Apr 19, 2002

data control
Don't worry, they have a BBB rating of C-. Something stupid is bound to happen again.

njbeachbum
Apr 14, 2005

Zealous Abattoir posted:

Can someone explain to me whats up with due process and how it affects how private colleges work with their students? I mean, I tried to read up upon the subject last night to understand her argument, but either I really am dumb (which I probably am) or she is talking out of her rear end.

I am not a lawyer, but I have worked in areas related to student conduct before, so I have a working knowledge of this. Private institutions do not have to provide "due process" (which is a legal term with legal definitions) to their students in regard to conduct. They do in most cases have to provide a "fundamentally fair" process, which generally means: they have to have access to the rules, they have to know what rule(s) they are charged with violating, they have to have an opportunity to tell their side of the story and in some cases should have the right to appeal. Now as far as removing a disruptive student from a class, this would be covered in most campus codes of conduct as "protecting the educational mission" of the school. At the schools I have worked at, she would be removed and barred from returning to class until some kind of hearing was held to determine permanent outcomes.

Here is the thing to remember - you attend a private school and in 99.99% of situations interactions are not governed by constitutional law, they are covered by contract law. You entered into a contract with the school to provide you an education and you agreed to fork over the cash and follow the rules.

Others who are lawyers may have more information to provide.

JudicialRestraints
Oct 26, 2007

Are you a LAWYER? Because I'll have you know I got GOOD GRADES in LAW SCHOOL last semester. Don't even try to argue THE LAW with me.

Zealous Abattoir posted:

Can someone explain to me whats up with due process and how it affects how private colleges work with their students? I mean, I tried to read up upon the subject last night to understand her argument, but either I really am dumb (which I probably am) or she is talking out of her rear end.

1. Due process only applies to deprivation of property rights or things that the supreme court considers enough like property rights.
2. She would then have to prove that either
a) The school did not follow it's own procedural rules for the deprivation of this property right
b) That the school's procedures were insufficient to ensure due process

Most of the other poster's got it right, I just wanted to spell it out exactly for you.

on 1. - Property rights are usually granted by the government. If property is taken by a private individual you are usually able to sue them for either conversion (theft) or Trespass against Chattels (interference with property). I doubt that your friend could have a property right in classes she contracted for (that said there may be a breach of contract claim here).

2. The School's procedural rules seemed sufficient. She was warned, she continued to be disruptive. Unless the disruption was an otherwise protected right (I.e. she was voicing a contrary political opinion to that of the prof) she is out of luck. Even if there are other rights at issue, the professor had the right to establish time place and manner restrictions on the modes of speech which your friend violated. Unless the school had an explicit policy it violated in ejecting your friend, she's poo poo out of luck.

Phil Moscowitz
Feb 19, 2007

If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!
Are you sure she didn't actually yell at the professor for violating her doo-doo process?

Dick Smegma
Oct 12, 2010

by T. Couchfucker
Lately a lot of religious groups – Jehovah’s Witnesses primarily – but others also – have been canvassing my neighborhood and spreading “the good news”. I am just fine without their little visits. The next time some drop by I was thinking about answering my door naked – even inviting them in if they want to talk. Would this be illegal? After all, I’d be in the privacy of my own home. Do you think they would put out the word to their fellow proselytizers to avoid my place?

dvgrhl
Sep 30, 2004

Do you think you are dealing with a 4-year-old child to whom you can give some walnuts and chocolates and get gold from him?
Soiled Meat

Dick Smegma posted:

Lately a lot of religious groups – Jehovah’s Witnesses primarily – but others also – have been canvassing my neighborhood and spreading “the good news”. I am just fine without their little visits. The next time some drop by I was thinking about answering my door naked – even inviting them in if they want to talk. Would this be illegal? After all, I’d be in the privacy of my own home. Do you think they would put out the word to their fellow proselytizers to avoid my place?

There's a big difference between expectation of privacy in your home and you opening your door to the public. Also, what if the JW people have anyone underage with them? I've seen them send around jr. high or high school kids before. Why don't you just tell them that you are not interested and ask them to respect your wishes and not come around to your house any more? How do you even jump straight to naked as a solution?

entris
Oct 22, 2008

by Y Kant Ozma Post

dvgrhl posted:

How do you even jump straight to naked as a solution?

Surprisingly, this is the correct solution for most legal problems.

ChubbyEmoBabe
Sep 6, 2003

-=|NMN|=-

Dick Smegma posted:

Lately a lot of religious groups – Jehovah’s Witnesses primarily – but others also – have been canvassing my neighborhood and spreading “the good news”. I am just fine without their little visits. The next time some drop by I was thinking about answering my door naked – even inviting them in if they want to talk. Would this be illegal? After all, I’d be in the privacy of my own home. Do you think they would put out the word to their fellow proselytizers to avoid my place?

I like your thinking but the sad fact is that there's probably 5-10 laws that are ambiguous enough for an arrest and a prosecutor would love to put you in front of a lot of jesus loving people.

There's a case recently about a woman and kid cutting through a mans property and seeing him naked through his window making coffee or some poo poo and him being arrested for it (I can't remember the disposition but being "hooked and booked" is enough to tell you it's a bad idea).

Loopyface
Mar 22, 2003

Dick Smegma posted:

Lately a lot of religious groups – Jehovah’s Witnesses primarily – but others also – have been canvassing my neighborhood and spreading “the good news”. I am just fine without their little visits. The next time some drop by I was thinking about answering my door naked – even inviting them in if they want to talk. Would this be illegal? After all, I’d be in the privacy of my own home. Do you think they would put out the word to their fellow proselytizers to avoid my place?

Or, you could answer the door and say, "Hey guys, I'm really not interested. Thanks, but no."

Scat Cat
Mar 13, 2008
Re-posting this form the ask/tell section.

My gf was recently diagnosed with MS (less than two weeks ago) after some ranged craziness; three week long migraine, incapable of understanding what day/time it was, refusing to see doctors in an almost child-like manner, and driving 400 miles past her work exit before realizing she was lost.

ANYWAYS, after these odd bouts, her boss forced her to go to the hospital and it was there that she was diagnosed with MS. This is just a provisional diagnosis, and we won't know for sure until she has a spinal tap done. I'm thankful that her boss forced her to go, as I live in a different state, and in her confused state of mind, she refused to go by her own will.

Earlier this week she gives me a call and informs me that her boss held a secret meeting with all the other employees with the intent of informing them of what to expect in someone with MS. It sounds to me (and this is all second hand information that she says her coworkers told her was said at the meeting) that everything he said was crazy, insecure, old-world, old man bullshit about what he thinks it means for a female to have a neurological disorder.

She is a manager of a team of drafters by the way...

Some of the things she told me was said publicly to her coworkers:
-She will suffer sexual dysfunction
-She will now not be allowed to read or send emails from/to clients
-She will not be able to to tell her co-workers what to do, or be able to yell at them. (Even though the higher-ups yell at them all the time, and it sounds like the team of drafters are kind of slackers and need to be yelled at.)

I've talked to her about what she thinks, and she's not sure what to do. This guy has a history of being a blunt, ruthless capitalist, and seems to have no problems cutting corners to make money. He owns the company by the way.

She doesn't want to lose her job as she was just diagnosed with MS, which is a very expensive condition to treat. She is currently in school to change professions (Hopefully in a year and a half), and needs a way to pay for it. But she doesn't want this rear end in a top hat to just go about his day treating her like Helen Keller.

Is this something even worth pursuing? She is talking to a lawyer right now and he asked what she expects to see out of this case, which is kind of a hard question to answer. She isn't some money grubbing, sue happy faker. She just doesn't want this rear end in a top hat to think he can do whatever he wants, and it seems like all he understands is money.

I only see the situation getting worse for her, as I've heard stories of how controlling and prying he can be with his employees.

I should mention that she lives in California.

PS- He is rich and a mormon. Should she expect only the most relentless of mormon defenders if she decides to go through with this?

TheBandOffice
Nov 4, 2009

Dick Smegma posted:

Lately a lot of religious groups – Jehovah’s Witnesses primarily – but others also – have been canvassing my neighborhood and spreading “the good news”. I am just fine without their little visits. The next time some drop by I was thinking about answering my door naked – even inviting them in if they want to talk. Would this be illegal? After all, I’d be in the privacy of my own home. Do you think they would put out the word to their fellow proselytizers to avoid my place?

This is a bad idea. If any of them are underage (kind of likely), you'd be screwed. Once you open the door, it's not really a case of expectation of privacy anymore, it's exposure I think. Better option would be, next time they're about to come to you door, put some of your feces (pre-prepped in a ziploc bag), spilt on the ground. That'll teach 'em.

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

It's best to think of privacy being an evidential barrier to convicting you of anything, not a defence in and of itself. You have a reasonable expectation of privacy, not a right to force others to 'avert their eyes'.

PoOKiE!
Jan 20, 2004

I can has 64 bites now?

Wyatt posted:

Tab8715 posted:

Really, when I got charged with passing a school bus, I called up, gave them my fax and got everything with-in two minutes.

Someone, please tell me how to gently caress up the discovery process.
...

PoOKiE!?

You'd have to ask my previous lawyer, I don't have experience messing up the discovery process yet. From what I can tell though, a simple way to do it would to not be specific about what you want and thinking that just saying "I want discovery" means you'll get everything under the sun...

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

PoOKiE! posted:

quote:

...

PoOKiE!?

You'd have to ask my previous lawyer, I don't have experience messing up the discovery process yet. From what I can tell though, a simple way to do it would to not be specific about what you want and thinking that just saying "I want discovery" means you'll get everything under the sun...

This is funny because you clearly read nothing before or after what you just quoted, having made exactly the same fundamental error.

Infinite Might
Mar 14, 2007

Your feeble skills are no match for the power of Bob Dole!

Dick Smegma posted:

Lately a lot of religious groups – Jehovah’s Witnesses primarily – but others also – have been canvassing my neighborhood and spreading “the good news”. I am just fine without their little visits. The next time some drop by I was thinking about answering my door naked – even inviting them in if they want to talk. Would this be illegal? After all, I’d be in the privacy of my own home. Do you think they would put out the word to their fellow proselytizers to avoid my place?

You ask Jehovah's Witnesses to put you on their "DO NOT CALL" list. That means they cant call you for a certain period or until they figure you moved.

They make little maps of neighborhoods in each congregations territory. Each congregation rotates those unless some old rear end in a top hat holds on to a good one [farther out meaning you count more hours] forever. This means you may be bothered with the same poo poo twice if someone doesn't take notes for your address or if the old rear end in a top hat owns your territory...you may never be called on after the first refusal. The general rule is call people every 6 months even if they say they don't want it. They think your circumstances will change or your kid will die and they can swoop in and comfort you [this was discussed in church], Asking to be on the list avoids this error.

I was raised in that bullshit. I'd go on about it but for the most part its not too interesting. Also men in underwear at the door doesn't phase them and some elders make a point of trolling people by ignoring nudity.

The only linear thing I recall in the service in regards to territory trading was you asked "how many do not calls are there? Any bad ones?"*. Just ask to be put on the do not call list. They do not want to call on you and get in trouble with their higher ups that don't want to lose their ability to go door to door.

* I should point out a "bad" do not call is someone that yells and basically "releases the hounds" or 10lb nippy puffball dog.

Infinite Might fucked around with this message at 01:47 on Nov 14, 2010

PoOKiE!
Jan 20, 2004

I can has 64 bites now?

Alchenar posted:

This is funny because you clearly read nothing before or after what you just quoted, having made exactly the same fundamental error.

What? I read everything.

School bus passer guy seemed to have the mindset a lot of people(myself included) had about discovery, and I know that not knowing what you specifically want or need for your defense is a way to screw it up.

chemosh6969
Jul 3, 2004

code:
cat /dev/null > /etc/professionalism

I am in fact a massive asswagon.
Do not let me touch computer.

Alchenar posted:

This is funny because you clearly read nothing before or after what you just quoted, having made exactly the same fundamental error.

Re-read what he wrote. He didn't say asking for discovery means you get what all your the stuff you want. He said that was a mistake in assuming that it was just that easy.

Per
Feb 22, 2006
Hair Elf
If I'm a non-American tourist driving in the US and I am stopped by police, can I invoke the 4th amendment if they ask to search my car?

ZebraBlade
Mar 26, 2010

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark
State: South Dakota

Background:
My friend entered into a 24 month lease in July. He signed into the lease for $950/Month for a 5 bedroom 3&1/2 bath 4 stall garage very very nice place. Similar places rent for $1500 to $1800/Month.

Problem:
In the lease it was agreed on that the renters could have up to two pets. He had a golden retriever when he moved in, and last week he bought a 5 week old lab that is fully yard trained, for his girlfriend who lives with him. The landlord said puppies were not agreed on and is giving them 10 days to vacate, keeping the entire months rent, and the $1200 deposit. They have cared for the property amazingly and it is in much nicer and cleaner condition than when they moved in. Every months rent has been paid in full and early.

My theory is that the landlord realized he could be getting much more and/or has found someone else to rent it. They are ok with moving out, but are very not ok with the landlord keeping the deposit and full months rent. Is ~$1500 worth getting a lawyer and going to small claims court over?

Incredulous Red
Mar 25, 2008

-E- nevermind

Feces Starship
Nov 11, 2008

in the great green room
goodnight moon

Per posted:

If I'm a non-American tourist driving in the US and I am stopped by police, can I invoke the 4th amendment if they ask to search my car?

If your question is whether or not you get the same Constitutional protections as an American because you're not an American, the answer is yes.

If your question is whether or not you can invoke the fourth amendment if an officer asks to search your car, the answer is far more complicated. Yes, you can, but it might not protect you. In very simplified terms however, the officer can still search your car if there's a warrant out for your arrest or if there's this thing called probable cause to search your car. PC is hard to explain in brief but the PC can be established by an observation the officer makes at the time of the stop, as well. You'll also have 99 problems if the canine come. Should you be the victim of an illegal search and the cops find the drugs you intend to bring into the country that way you'll have to invoke something called the exclusionary rule, but at that point a real live lawyer will be handling your case because without one you'll be big daddy hosed rather than just plain ordinary hosed.

If you get stopped and you're worried about a search, being polite and explaining your hesitancy regarding a search as an element of personal exigency is by far your best chance. Dramatically crossing your arms and declaring the protective powers of the fourth amendment is not the preferred tactic.

Konstantin
Jun 20, 2005
And the Lord said, "Look, they are one people, and they have all one language; and this is only the beginning of what they will do; nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them.

ZebraBlade posted:

State: South Dakota

Background:
My friend entered into a 24 month lease in July. He signed into the lease for $950/Month for a 5 bedroom 3&1/2 bath 4 stall garage very very nice place. Similar places rent for $1500 to $1800/Month.

Problem:
In the lease it was agreed on that the renters could have up to two pets. He had a golden retriever when he moved in, and last week he bought a 5 week old lab that is fully yard trained, for his girlfriend who lives with him. The landlord said puppies were not agreed on and is giving them 10 days to vacate, keeping the entire months rent, and the $1200 deposit. They have cared for the property amazingly and it is in much nicer and cleaner condition than when they moved in. Every months rent has been paid in full and early.

My theory is that the landlord realized he could be getting much more and/or has found someone else to rent it. They are ok with moving out, but are very not ok with the landlord keeping the deposit and full months rent. Is ~$1500 worth getting a lawyer and going to small claims court over?

First of all, you can't have lawyers in small claims court. If it is written in the lease that two pets are allowed and there is nothing in there about the age of the pets, you are in the clear. I wouldn't move out, myself. Stay in in the house, tell the landlord that you are not moving out, ask him to only communicate with you in writing, and send all future rent checks to him certified mail with return receipt. There is no way he can win in an eviction proceeding, and if he changes the locks you can get two months rent plus your security deposit in damages.

Solomon Grundy
Feb 10, 2007

Born on a Monday

Feces Starship posted:

If your question is whether or not you get the same Constitutional protections as an American because you're not an American, the answer is yes.


Unless you are designated a foreign combatant, in which case you will immediately waterboarded.

Konstantin posted:

First of all, you can't have lawyers in small claims court. If it is written in the lease that two pets are allowed and there is nothing in there about the age of the pets, you are in the clear. I wouldn't move out, myself. Stay in in the house, tell the landlord that you are not moving out, ask him to only communicate with you in writing, and send all future rent checks to him certified mail with return receipt. There is no way he can win in an eviction proceeding, and if he changes the locks you can get two months rent plus your security deposit in damages.

You can have lawyers in small claims court in my state, but otherwise, I agree with your assessment. Plus, in some states, there are statutory penalties for illegal eviction.

chemosh6969
Jul 3, 2004

code:
cat /dev/null > /etc/professionalism

I am in fact a massive asswagon.
Do not let me touch computer.

Solomon Grundy posted:

You can have lawyers in small claims court in my state, but otherwise, I agree with your assessment. Plus, in some states, there are statutory penalties for illegal eviction.

Where I'm at, it's 3 months worth of rent, triple the deposit, your lawyer fees and possibly the cost of moving to a new place(rental truck, etc.).

I'm in a tenant friendly state and also a landlord. If I were you, I'd talk to a tenant/landlord attorney and start dealing with the landlord through the lawyer. Assuming what you say is completely true, your landlord would be completely hosed in my state and probably hate your guts in the process :)

Black Noise
Jan 23, 2008

WHAT UP

So the room behind my in this old hotel turned dormitory has had this leak from a pipe form and eventually shatter the plaster in the ceiling.

They didn't clean the carpet they just threw a fan in the room to dry the place out

The Damage


The "fix"


After applying said fix they said "you probably don't want to sleep under it yet..it might fall out again....."

they say black mold only forms on wood and not plaster but im curious if its even technically legal for them to be living there with those terrible fixes. I am not familiar with Michigan Rental Laws or even if they apply to dorms but I see lots of questions about lovely land lords here so i figured i'd give it a shot

dvgrhl
Sep 30, 2004

Do you think you are dealing with a 4-year-old child to whom you can give some walnuts and chocolates and get gold from him?
Soiled Meat
I've been wondering about finding a lawyer before I ever need one, as in like I have a specific lawyer I would call if say I ever was being questioned by the police. How do these types of things get set up? Would I just find a lawyer I think would be good and keep their info if I ever needed it? I haven't had a need for a lawyer of my own for other things, so I don't have a pre-existing relationship with anyone.

ZebraBlade
Mar 26, 2010

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark

chemosh6969 posted:

Where I'm at, it's 3 months worth of rent, triple the deposit, your lawyer fees and possibly the cost of moving to a new place(rental truck, etc.).

I'm in a tenant friendly state and also a landlord. If I were you, I'd talk to a tenant/landlord attorney and start dealing with the landlord through the lawyer. Assuming what you say is completely true, your landlord would be completely hosed in my state and probably hate your guts in the process :)

Thanks for all of the help. After letting my friend know all the info from here, all he had to do was say the word "lawyer" and the landlord backed off and is giving them the deposit. They still want to move out because they dont want the stress of the landlord hounding them over every little thing to get them kicked out.

Hughmoris
Apr 21, 2007
Let's go to the abyss!
Can I take a major hospital to small claims court?

My family lives around the Pensacola, FL area. They contacted the major cancer hospital in Miami, FL (12 hours away). The hospital verified that they did indeed take our insurance (Military Tricare). When my family member arrived, they informed her that her insurance is not acceptable and they cannot help her.

Now, she has lost 5 days of wages + transportation costs + time lost against an aggressive form of cancer. Understandably, we are a bit pissed.

Is this something we just have to eat or should we bother with filing small claims against them to recuperate expenses + wages etc...


*Read the OP about not typically offering info on legal claims, hopefully I can be one of the few.

Hughmoris fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Nov 15, 2010

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

The claim is going to depend on the exact reason why the insurance was rejected (did they not take the insurance at all or was there a specific reason undisclosed?).

The court and process is going to depend upon the amounts involved.

You want a consultation with a local attourney to find out if your specific case is worth pursing either on merits or on what you will get out of it.

echopapa
Jun 2, 2005

El Presidente smiles upon this thread.

dvgrhl posted:

I've been wondering about finding a lawyer before I ever need one, as in like I have a specific lawyer I would call if say I ever was being questioned by the police. How do these types of things get set up? Would I just find a lawyer I think would be good and keep their info if I ever needed it? I haven't had a need for a lawyer of my own for other things, so I don't have a pre-existing relationship with anyone.

In Ye Olden Days, people used to just go drop money on a retainer and have a guy on call. Nowadays, the best way to find a lawyer is to go meet one (they can be found at bars), and if they don't practice in the area you're looking for, ask for a recommendation.

Shop around if you have to: the best lawyer for you is one that you feel mirrors your own personality.

dvgrhl
Sep 30, 2004

Do you think you are dealing with a 4-year-old child to whom you can give some walnuts and chocolates and get gold from him?
Soiled Meat

echopapa posted:

In Ye Olden Days, people used to just go drop money on a retainer and have a guy on call. Nowadays, the best way to find a lawyer is to go meet one (they can be found at bars), and if they don't practice in the area you're looking for, ask for a recommendation.

Shop around if you have to: the best lawyer for you is one that you feel mirrors your own personality.

Thanks. Any recommendations from lawyers on good types of questions for a prospective client to ask? I'm just thinking for if I dropped in at the neighborhood law office for a introduction meeting, 5-10 minutes, what types of questions I could ask to help me gauge things.

Oneday for Life
Feb 2, 2004
Shoe. Explode?!
So I'm thinking about taking my ex-landlady to small claims court, but I have no idea how to do it or if it's even advisable.

There were 4 of us on the lease and our rent was 1350 a month. The lease expired in September.

In August, our A/C went out during the hottest part of the year. I live in Tulsa so the temps got up around 110 I think. We contacted her multiple times to get her to fix it, but nothing ever happened. Our lease expired in September and before this we had been on good terms with her, so it never occurred to us to do the whole "get it in writing" thing, which was a terrible idea, I know.

The A/C went out because the electrical box it was connected to actually caught fire. We were lucky enough to have smelled it before the whole house burnt down. After not hearing from her in 2 weeks and us dying of heat, we rigged it up so that the A/C took its power from another outlet, which is way out of code. Some friends who hung out at the house took over the lease thinking she would fix it, but it still is the same way we left it.

So in August, one of the roommates lost his job. The rest of us gave him our rent, he took it to her, and made some sort of deal with her where he would pay her weekly, as he had a side job laying wood floors. She apparently agreed to this as we received no notice to vacate or any warnings.

September comes, we move out, the new guys move in, and we wait to get our deposit back. We paid $900 when we signed the lease and were informed we would receive it within 2 weeks of moving out. We still have not received it. We sent her certified letters stating that we should receive a notice as to why we did not receive it but never got a response. About once a month we have tried various means to get ahold of her, but she runs a boutique or something in California and has been busy getting implants (not joking.)

I e-mailed her a copy of the certified letter we sent her which said the following:

me posted:

The lease agreement that started on July 17th, 2009 for the tenants of **** 77th Pl was completed on August 31st, 2010. A certified letter was written to you on September 23, 2010 demanding the deposit in the amount of ($900) to be returned. None of the 4 tenants on the lease have received any part of this deposit, nor have we heard from you regarding the issue. Section 115 of the Residential Landlord and Tenants Acts requires you to refund this money (30) days after the termination of the tendency or written demand of the tenant both of which have been satisfied. Please take immediate action regarding this issue. I can be reached by phone at ...etc etc

The only response I got was:

Landlady posted:

Would have been nice to get the full amount of rent that last month and a phone call back Oneday.

Sent from my iPhone

It seems my old roommate never finished paying her back. So I replied with:

me posted:

It was my understanding that you and Roommate had made arrangements for the remaining part of the rent. My phone broke in September and I was without service until I switched to Sprint. I lost all my phone numbers and didn't know you had tried to contact me, so I apologize for that.

If you would like to take the remaining part of the last months rent out of the deposit, that's fine, but since the arrangement was between you and Roommate, I don't feel as though the rest of us should suffer. He will not receive his portion of the deposit and we will have to give up part of ours because of him. This is unfortunate for us, but we would still like to see the remainder returned to us since we never received notification of why we did not receive it. You will not lose any money since you have it already in the form of the deposit.

Thanks

I don't know if that was what I should have said but I really want to avoid taking this to court. The only reason I am trying to get this deposit so badly is because I was just notified that my position at my job will be downsized in January, so I'm going to need all the money I can get.

What steps should I take? Have I already screwed stuff up? Can I use the fact that she didn't have us vacate for not paying rent to our advantage? She never told us why we didn't receive the deposit and her only response to any of our requests was what I posted above. Do we have any legal rights here?

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joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

Oneday for Life posted:

So I'm thinking about taking my ex-landlady to small claims court, but I have no idea how to do it or if it's even advisable.

The AC issue is separate from the last month's rent/deposit issue. It's irrelevant and if you go to small claims court, bringing it up will get you on Judge Otey's bad side.

Since there was nothing in writing and the repairs would have been more than $100, you were and are pretty much stuck with regard to the AC, anyway.

As for the rent/deposit issue, how will you prove whether and how much Roomate paid the landlord for the August rent? If the amount short for August is less than $900, you could get that remainder back. (landlady will have trouble saying she deducted damages from the deposit because (based on your facts) she didn't comply with the rules)

In addition to the $45 filing fee, you're going to lose some days of work in seeing this through small claims court, so figure that in your calculations.

Tulsa County's Small Claims court website.
Tulsa County's Small Claims how-do-I?.

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