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Well gently caress me, this has thrown a spanner in the works. I've already built a system specifically for Vail including those 4k drives from WD (2Tb EARS), and now I literally have no reason to wait for Vail to come out. What do I do now? AFAIK, WHS1 doesn't like 4k drives. Any recommendations?
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Nov 24, 2010 09:09
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modeski posted:Well gently caress me, this has thrown a spanner in the works. Set the jumpers then install V1
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Nov 24, 2010 15:48
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EoRaptor posted:The SBS Blog provides a huge clue: So basically if you want to build your own Vail server, you're hosed and would have to buy a manufacturer's server (i.e. Acer, HP) and rely on them to develop some sort of RAID? Are there really that many people who do that? Or how many people actually use a hardware RAID solution with WHS v1? My guess is there's either an overwhelming number of WHS v1 users who have complained to Microsoft about their hardware RAID not working properly, or Microsoft tried to develop a new Drive Extender for Vail and gave up because they realized their new lovely filesystem won't allow them to do so. It sounds more like Microsoft is throwing in the towel and saying "Well, we have to ship Vail by this date and we don't have enough time to get DE working, let's just gently caress the home users and tell OEMs they have to solve this for us." That, or the OEMs went to Microsoft and asked them to take out DE so they can make more money supplying customers with their RAID solutions. PUBLIC TOILET fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Nov 24, 2010 |
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Nov 24, 2010 19:24
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What options do we have now that this won't be working with Vail. Stick with WHS1? I am pretty sure they'll cut off support for it asap and thus it will be open to exploits or whatever. Go to Unix? I deal with servers all day long at work so I like coming home to something super simple like Windows. Just go with Windows 2008 and let go of the drive extender? Ugh.
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Nov 24, 2010 19:34
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jeeves posted:What options do we have now that this won't be working with Vail. V1 is 2003 server so no, it will have updates for quite a long time. I am sticking with v1 myself.
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Nov 24, 2010 19:58
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kri kri posted:Set the jumpers then install V1 Yeah, that's what I was thinking. With v1, do I need a separate OS drive? I can just chuck a spare 250Gb one in there. Ironically, I had this machine built for me by my local computer shop because I'm far too On the up side, it means I can order WHS and have it in a couple of days instead of sitting about for six months or more twiddling my thumbs. modeski fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Nov 24, 2010 |
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Nov 24, 2010 20:07
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modeski posted:Yeah, that's what I was thinking. With v1, do I need a separate OS drive? I can just chuck a spare 250Gb one in there. Nah V1 does not use a seperate OS drive. A 250 will work fine for the boot drive, 20GB will be partitioned as system and the rest will be the storage pool.
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Nov 24, 2010 20:10
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I haven't really looked into it, but doesn't Windows have it's own software RAID? I wouldn't be surprised if you can recreate some of the features of DE with that. It won't be a complete replacement, of course.
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Nov 24, 2010 20:10
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Thermopyle posted:I haven't really looked into it, but doesn't Windows have it's own software RAID? If software raid you mean Dynamic Disks from Disk Management-- then don't do this. I was lazy and merged two partitions on a drive instead of reformatting, and it was a nightmare to recover data from it unless I put the drive back in the system it originally came from when I did the dynamic disk setup.
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Nov 24, 2010 21:00
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jeeves posted:If software raid you mean Dynamic Disks from Disk Management-- then don't do this. I was lazy and merged two partitions on a drive instead of reformatting, and it was a nightmare to recover data from it unless I put the drive back in the system it originally came from when I did the dynamic disk setup. Well, that's not really the fault of dynamic disks (if that's what Windows calls it's software RAID). That's the fault of the user not knowing what he was doing. 
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Nov 24, 2010 21:02
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Thermopyle posted:Well, that's not really the fault of dynamic disks (if that's what Windows calls it's software RAID). That's the fault of the user not knowing what he was doing. Pretty much, but I know more than most but holy gently caress was it annoying as poo poo to try to get data off of. If it was annoying for me then it would be a nightmare to most.
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Nov 24, 2010 21:08
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WinSuperSite has an update on why they removed the feature:quote:In a briefing last month, I was told that Microsoft and its partners discovered problems with Drive Extender once they began typical server loads (i.e. server applications) on the system. This came about because Drive Extender was being moved from a simple system, WHS, to a more complex, server-like OS )(SBS "Aurora") that would in fact be used to run true server applications. And these applications were causing problems. Basically, the plan was to include Drive Extender with some of Microsoft's new entry-level business server offerings, but performance wasn't up to par with some of the customer's enterprise apps. So they decided to yank the technology out of ALL their OSes instead, instead of just relegating it to consumer status. What a crock.
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Nov 24, 2010 21:35
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kri kri posted:Use X-files, pretty sure its in the OP. I'm now curious if I should bother with the current Vail Beta or WHS V1 - PP3. It seems like the Vail Beta was mostly stable for the lot of people testing most of its features as an everyday no-frills home server.
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Nov 24, 2010 23:21
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Now I'm wondering about using some iSCSI backend to get easy replication and pooling. I assume Vail still has iSCSI initiator support?
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Nov 24, 2010 23:31
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If anyone still wants to buy a WHS while DE still exists, Newegg has a bunch on sale for Black Friday and really cheap prices. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16859321014&cm_mmc=BFUS-_-386-_-N82E16859321014&nm_mc=BFUS http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16859105562&cm_mmc=BFUS-_-386-_-N82E16859105562&nm_mc=BFUS http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16859105563&cm_mmc=BFUS-_-386-_-N82E16859105563&nm_mc=BFUS http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16859105777&cm_mmc=BFUS-_-386-_-N82E16859105777&nm_mc=BFUS
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Nov 25, 2010 00:52
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Jeratain posted:I'm now curious if I should bother with the current Vail Beta or WHS V1 - PP3. It seems like the Vail Beta was mostly stable for the lot of people testing most of its features as an everyday no-frills home server. I've been using it since August with no problems at all. It hasn't crashed/broke once yet. It backs up five computers around the house, has utorrent running, a minecraft server, and it streams media to two Xboxes. I've found it very stable and will use it for as long as Microsoft allows it to grab updates. Hopefully they'll change their mind with all this backlash and add DE back in to the final build of Vail. Right? 
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Nov 25, 2010 00:54
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I like how they say it was "neat feature" when it is pretty much the entire reason that most people used WHS.
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Nov 25, 2010 01:59
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Just saw a couple articles on this. http://www.liveside.net/2010/11/24/the-vail-debacle-why-microsoft-still-doesnt-get-the-consumer/ http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2010/11/has-microsoft-just-ruined-windows-home-server.ars
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Nov 27, 2010 06:49
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I am a little confused about this changed. I have a WHS v1 now, and the main reason I bought it was that it would: 1) allow me to upgrade my storage on the fly. replacing a smaller drive with a larger one and expanding the total storage. I think this is going away in v2. 2) provide redundancy for my files. I never ran apps off my server, just used it to store my pictures/videos, and documents. I think this is going to be available in v2 but changed?
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Nov 27, 2010 17:55
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BorderPatrol posted:If anyone still wants to buy a WHS while DE still exists, Newegg has a bunch on sale for Black Friday and really cheap prices. All of the HPs are long gone.
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Nov 27, 2010 18:23
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EC posted:Drive extender is being cut from Vail?! I'm at a loss as to what this product is turning into. So does this leave Amahi as the only Home Server offering that does this? Really is a bizarre stance for MS to take, and effectively kills off WHS. If anyone is after a Home Server OS look at Amahi, I used it for a year and it ran completely effortlessly the whole time, it needed no personal intervention it just ran, apart from the odd reboot every few months for kernel updates. I stopped using Amahi when the motherboard in the server decided to die and switched to Server 2008 R2 when I got the machine back up and running, as wanted to try it and got given a license key. So far though Amahi does offer a lot more, and does it for free, but going to keep 2008 for the time being as I just use the HS as a file store and media server. Well I will keep it until it starts asking me to reboot every other week, as I expect a MS product to do. Only issue I had with Amahi is that to get all the features (i.e. the web features especially) you have to set it as your DNS server, which can be a pain at times. Getting the data off it after the motherboard failure was straight forward as well, once I figured out the correct order of the drives  (Didn't write down the order, which turns out you should do just in case complete system failure like I had).
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Nov 27, 2010 18:43
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Does Server 2008 have something like drive extender? I doubt it, seeing how you'd probably just have to go full raid.
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Nov 27, 2010 19:37
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So I looked into Amahi a little bit. It uses greyhole to offer storage pooling that is pretty much just like Drive Extender with a few extra features. It seriously works nearly identically to DE, except on Linux. In addition to copying files around in the background, it balances free space amongst drives, and you can set shares to be duplicated to as many hard drives as you desire. This page offers a comparison to DE and a guide to migrating from WHS to Amahi/greypool. All that being said, I still think I'm moving on to RAID5+LVM as I'm ready for a more powerful solution.
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Nov 27, 2010 21:08
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Thermopyle posted:So I looked into Amahi a little bit. How easy would this be for someone who has spent their entire life as a DOS/Windows person? I won't be migrating as I have a virgin server waiting to be set up, and I'm very close to ordering WHS. modeski fucked around with this message at 23:26 on Nov 27, 2010 |
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Nov 27, 2010 23:22
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modeski posted:How easy would this be for someone who has spent their entire life as a DOS/Windows person? I won't be migrating as I have a virgin server waiting to be set up, and I'm very close to ordering WHS. I haven't used it, but from perusing their wiki it looks really simple. I'd recommend you look around the Amahi wiki and see what you think.
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Nov 28, 2010 02:12
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Greyhole looks nice, wish I could run it with Ubuntu and not Fedora though
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Nov 28, 2010 02:33
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kri kri posted:Greyhole looks nice, wish I could run it with Ubuntu and not Fedora though Greyhole should work on Ubuntu.
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Nov 28, 2010 03:48
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http://www.wegotserved.com/2010/11/26/ballmer-set-windows-home-server-drive-extender-fiasco/ Maybe there's hope?
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Nov 28, 2010 05:47
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How-To Geek has a good article about alternatives to drive extender as well, if you are looking for other options. Most have been discussed here before, but I thought it was a good comparison of each. http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/36458/9-alternatives-for-windows-home-servers-drive-extender/
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Nov 29, 2010 17:21
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valinhorn posted:How-To Geek has a good article about alternatives to drive extender as well, if you are looking for other options. Most have been discussed here before, but I thought it was a good comparison of each. Thanks, valinhorn. This is terribly un-geeky of me, and the 20-year-old inside me is screaming at me not be such an old man (and I do wish she'd shut up  ), but I think I might just take the easy option and go for WHS1.Years ago I'd happily have spent days tinkering around, but I just want something easy and quick that I'll better know how to fix if it fucks up.
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Nov 29, 2010 19:57
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modeski posted:Thanks, valinhorn. I'm in the same boat as you. I know there are a ton of solutions I could use that would require maximum geeking out, but I really just want something that works and is reliable, especially since it's holding all of my data. Probably sticking with WHS1
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Nov 29, 2010 21:01
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Does anyone here have a HP MediaSmart EX490? I'm curious about it, as the Acer media server isn't really my jams for how it looks, and the only place I'll have for a server is right on the side of my desk so I'd have to stare at it out of the corner of my eye so I don't mind spending an extra hundred for a snappy case. I'm curious about how loud it is (seeing how it will be in my desk which is in my bedroom), and its setup for WHS. HP seems to be one of the better OEM blends for WHS, but I am weary of all of the dumb plug ins it comes pre-installed with, especially since reinstalling WHS myself from a fresh start is most likely a chore on these machines without even a video output. Can I uninstall most of HP's WHS plug ins that they pre-install? I've gotten really spoiled by my own custom install of Win2003 I did on my trusty ASUS EEE Box I've had running for 2 years now, as it is almost completely silent and running just a rock solid bare bones Win2003 setup. But I've maxed out it's one hard drive bay and I would honestly much rather just buy a whole new home server in a single box than deal with the ASUS+a NAS.
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Nov 30, 2010 08:44
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I'd have to check, but I think that's the model my father in law has. It's fairly quiet, and if you can RDC into the thing you can remove anything you want to (I find that way easier than trying to uninstall poo poo through the console). I like the box, and kind of wish I had spent the money on one instead of rolling my own (giant, noisy) box.
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Nov 30, 2010 14:00
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Not a good sign - Microsoft Press has canceled the Vail-based Windows Home Server Inside Out Book. It could mean that Ballmer put the brakes on things and may force them to change, but it's still not a good sign. The Drobo people are gloating, especially since they signed an agreement with HP a few weeks ago for some small business stuff. Ballmer can't be too happy. Last time there was some HP business lost, he flipped out, and the DE fiasco could give HP/Drobo an advantage in sales of non-Microsoft goods.
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Nov 30, 2010 16:53
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What's the easiest way to install WHSv1 and get your SATA-drives to use AHCI? Right now the installer won't detect any drives if I set them to AHCI. Do I have to use a floppy, or is there a way to inject drivers onto the cd? Intel-chipped mobo...
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Nov 30, 2010 17:45
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Scuttle_SE posted:What's the easiest way to install WHSv1 and get your SATA-drives to use AHCI? Right now the installer won't detect any drives if I set them to AHCI. Do I have to use a floppy, or is there a way to inject drivers onto the cd? I used Nlite and added the Intel RST drivers to the i386 folder of the WHS DVD. Worked great. You can also spend 15 bux and get a aftermarket SATA controller, use it to boot with and then flip the BIOS to ACHI and load the drivers as normal.
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Nov 30, 2010 17:48
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redeyes posted:I used Nlite and added the Intel RST drivers to the i386 folder of the WHS DVD. Worked great. You can also spend 15 bux and get a aftermarket SATA controller, use it to boot with and then flip the BIOS to ACHI and load the drivers as normal. Alright, sounds easy enough... After writing that I came up with two more questions... The first version o WHS used one disk as a "landing zone", meaning you had to periodically wait for the drives to balance themselves. Is that still the case? Or would I be better of using a smaller, faster disk for the system-drive? I have today a bunch of 2TB-drives connected to a 2008-server. Some of them are WD-drives and I assume they use the new 4k sectors... will I have to reformat these drives if I connect them to WHS, or can I pull the information from them? I was thinking of connecting maybe one or two empty drives, add those to the pool, connect a few of my full drives. Empty the full drives into the pool, then add those disk to the pool. Repeat until no more disks.
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Nov 30, 2010 17:56
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Scuttle_SE posted:Alright, sounds easy enough... After writing that I came up with two more questions... The landing zone thing went away with PP2 or PP3 I forget, point is WHS copies files directly to the drive it wants to now. The new WD 2TB drives could very well be advanced format 4k drives. You will have to install the jumper to fool the OS into aligning the partition before adding them to the storage pool. Your plan sounds fine though, that is the way I generally rebuild my WHS when I need to.
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Nov 30, 2010 18:08
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Scuttle_SE posted:Alright, sounds easy enough... After writing that I came up with two more questions... IMO, you don't really need to worry about the system drive speed/size... You will be able to plug those new WD drives to WDS to pull the data off the drives, but you will need to set the jumpers to format correctly before adding them into the storage pool itself. The migration plan will work exactly how you described it and will be fairly painless really. As far as the whole DE fiasco, it really leaves me up in the air too. I plan on adding a video card to my box and adding a new 2 TB drive to the pool soon. At that point, I'll have the option to either continue using WHS v1 or more to a 2008 server build or something. I really like the idea of not having to manage disk space myself and having the flexibility of adding drives and sizes as I need to. Moving off of the Windows 2003 code would be great, tho.
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Nov 30, 2010 18:09
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qutius posted:Moving off of the Windows 2003 code would be great, tho. I've been feeling the upgrade itch, but haven't been able to justify it, especially now that DE looks to be gone in WHSv2. What would be the advantages of moving off of 2003 code, out of curiosity? Right now it does everything I need it to, and fairly silently as well.
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Nov 30, 2010 18:13
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