|
Annie is all pissy at Eglamore and Anja for not telling her, Reynard is pissed at the Court for obvious reasons, Reynard apparently feels bad for telling Annie, Annie will probably feel bad for emotionally torturing Reynard (she's shown that she does recognize her own mistakes, with Mort). Their friendship will never be the same, but I imagine them both being  together at the end of this chapter.
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2010 13:46
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 15:42 |
|
|
dumb brunette posted:Why does this comic not update faster I don't have the strength of will to wait and read it in few-week chunks I especially feel this way when there's huge plot moments like this arrrgh Staggy posted:The art is really shining through now; the distorted panels are used really well. She would probably mention the whole 'Having me killing my mother' thing so Kat would at least be a bit understanding.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2010 15:35
|
|
|
I'm back in love with this chapter, and the art  Distortion effect = awesome
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2010 16:26
|
|
|
Detetsu posted:or this is the summer that Annie spends in the forest with Coyote. I'm going to bet that the Coyote has something to do with all of this. After all, Surma took away Rey from him. Your child being the death of you seems like a fairly classical curse.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2010 16:48
|
|
|
I'm guessing it has something to do with this thing, and someone having to be a human vessel for it. I dunno, kind of a hunch. Sounds less retarded than phoenixes, which uh, you people sort of pulled out of nowhere.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2010 16:54
|
|
|
Rei_ posted:I'm guessing it has something to do with this thing, and someone having to be a human vessel for it. I dunno, kind of a hunch. Sounds less retarded than phoenixes, which uh, you people sort of pulled out of nowhere. (And I'm sure someone has already brought up the fact that bismuth and antimony are both names of elements.)
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2010 17:05
|
|
|
And Surma is the name of a Finnish monster dog-with-a-snake-tail that guards the gates of the afterlife. But I don't think that will have anything to do with anything.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2010 17:16
|
|
|
The Surma people of Nepal also believe in hereditary transfer of religious powers, and it also means 'to kill' in Finnish. Consider that with the idea that Surma's birth probably killed her own mother as well. edit: Wikipedia buddies!
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2010 17:18
|
|
|
You'd think that Surma would have considered adoption.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2010 18:38
|
|
|
Guava posted:You'd think that Surma would have considered adoption. Surma likely wanted to pass on her powers. She accepted her death willingly, so that there would be another person with her skills for the Court's benefit.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2010 19:04
|
|
|
dumb brunette posted:That's the court's symbol. The alchemical symbol has been referred to by Jones (somewhere during the swordfighting, I think) as the symbol for bismuth, to serve as a reminder of the court's origin from etheric sciences. http://www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=264 It's definitely a court symbol and not an Annie specific symbol.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2010 20:23
|
|
|
I'm sure someone has brought this up before, but flipping through from that page just now got me here, and looking up Surma's maiden name of "Stibnite" because it sounded familiar got me: Wikipedia posted:Stibnite, sometimes called antimonite, is a sulfide mineral with the formula Sb2S3. This soft grey material crystallizes in an orthorhombic space group. It is the most important source for the metalloid antimony. The abbreviation for antimony, Sb, is taken from stibnite. It's just something neat I didn't remember and I forgot Surma's maiden name was ever brought up. I am most definitely not anything even approaching scientist, so I forgot about this. dumb brunette fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Dec 1, 2010 |
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2010 21:49
|
|
|
Boy, way to go Renard! You just devastated an emotionally-damaged kid with a dead mom, an absent dad, and no one she feels she can fully trust! Boy, I bet you're really loving proud of yourself. Gotta be the apex of your centuries, this one. You'd obviously be a great dad, huh?
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2010 22:17
|
|
Detetsu posted:It makes a lot of sense. She was lied to about something incredibly important to her about the adults she trusts around her. The only one who hasn't lied to her is the god in the forest and so it makes sense for her to run to him to find the truth and break down for a few months. Coyote never told her about this either though. He's as guilty of lying by omission as the people at the court who knew Surma. And don't tell me he wouldn't know, he obviously knew Surma very well and this is definitely something that happens on the mystical level where he operates.
|
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2010 22:45
|
|
|
Lurdiak posted:Coyote never told her about this either though. He's as guilty of lying by omission as the people at the court who knew Surma. And don't tell me he wouldn't know, he obviously knew Surma very well and this is definitely something that happens on the mystical level where he operates. That's a good point. Maybe she'd view him as being a distant third party rather than someone she's around daily though, but really it's all supposition until Gunnerkrigg's reached it's final page. Not knowing really kills me deep inside.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2010 23:11
|
|
|
Pick posted:Boy, way to go Renard! You just devastated an emotionally-damaged kid with a dead mom, an absent dad, and no one she feels she can fully trust! Boy, I bet you're really loving proud of yourself. Gotta be the apex of your centuries, this one. Dude, you're taking this all very personally, calm down.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2010 23:15
|
|
|
DaveWoo posted:That's... surprisingly plausible, actually. Perhaps the "seed bismuth" wasn't a something, but a someone. Not just that, but Bismuth is in the same periodic column as Antimony (in fact it's right below it), so have many similar properties.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2010 23:29
|
|
|
Pick posted:Boy, way to go Renard! You just devastated an emotionally-damaged kid with a dead mom, an absent dad, and no one she feels she can fully trust! Boy, I bet you're really loving proud of yourself. Gotta be the apex of your centuries, this one. To be fair he was provoked into it by Annie gloating over how her mother tricked him and he was stupid for falling for it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2010 23:33
|
|
|
Also Annie was flagrantly abusing her best (only?) friend's trust. They're one big rear end in a top hat family.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2010 23:36
|
|
|
Yeah Pick I get that you hate Renard but Annie kind of yanked on a raw nerve, it's completely unsurprising that he exploded back at her in turn. This confrontation has really been coming for a long time, pretty much since Coyote told Annie that Renard loved Surma. Them exploding all over each other was bound to happen sometime. Plus look at the guy, he loving knows he crossed a line. People say cruel poo poo they'll regret later all the time when they're angry, it's just what happens!
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2010 23:55
|
|
|
Oh no hyperbole in the Gunnerkrigg thread say it ain't so  .Anyway, Mr. Heliotrope posted:To be fair he was provoked into it by Annie gloating over how her mother tricked him and he was stupid for falling for it. Which was provoked by Renard insistently insulting the only remaining person in her broken, broken family. My point is basically that if he wants to pretend he's Mister Mature, he's got to act the part in full, not just be condescending as it suits him. Right now he's being an enormous hypocrite, acting like he's speaking from a position of authority but still lashing out at her level. Of course everyone's being a massive dick, but Renard was unbelievably out of line. They're both being teenagers, but Renard has a much poorer excuse for it. I don't hate him, but this is a serious strike. Think about it this way: what if Renard and Eglamore were switched in this chapter? (It's not so impossible to imagine; maybe Surma was just using him without his knowledge, too. And Eglamore has a similar view of Anthony, plus he knows the deal with Surma.) As a grown man, wouldn't you expect Eglamore to keep his temper? Pick fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Dec 2, 2010 |
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2010 00:14
|
|
|
The only good thing in Renard's old life was shattered, and then she forced him to stand and be mocked for never having the only thing he cared about. When everyone is throwing boulders like that, they're all to blame.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2010 00:26
|
|
|
And remember that Renard can supposedly only speak the truth to Annie, or at least what he believes to be the truth. There's nothing preventing him from phrasing it in the meanest way possible, however. And so his arrogant comments sparked a truth-fight that got out of control until someone stormed out of the room. Happens all the time. Though these truths were a bit scarier than the usual ones.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2010 00:33
|
|
|
Basically what Zooloo said. If she hadn't basically said "I'm not allowing you to turn away from this fight, I am going to force you to stand here and listen to me destroy your concept of what happened in your life," it'd be one thing. If Renard stuck around of his own volition and threw it at her as a last defense, I'd be much more upset at Renard's reaction. As it was, she forced him to stick around and endure her mockery of him, then he lashed out in response. Maybe not justifiably so, but you've got to remember that he has believed for years that Surma loved him. This is a big thing changing in his life. Also it's been shown that Renard's behavior changes depending on his form (the mind is but a plaything of the body) and right now he's in child's plaything shape. Not a defense, sure, but maybe a bit of an explanation. dumb brunette fucked around with this message at 01:09 on Dec 2, 2010 |
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2010 01:07
|
|
|
Zoolooman posted:The only good thing in Renard's old life was shattered, and then she forced him to stand and be mocked for never having the only thing he cared about. When everyone is throwing boulders like that, they're all to blame. And it's a little bit her fault too, because she made him stay in a form where he doesn't appear to have the emotional maturity or wisdom to deal with that. Which lead to him escalating, which I can't see him doing in his wolf form. Doesn't absolve him of it but yeah, everyone's being a dick.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2010 01:15
|
|
|
CannonFodder posted:Anja used the blinker stone to make the big red symbol way back when. Talking about symbols, was this one ever explained? http://www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=513 Rey doesn't like it... EDIT: Nevermind, explained 5 pages later, with the court symbol appearing again. http://www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=518 Goffer fucked around with this message at 01:30 on Dec 2, 2010 |
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2010 01:27
|
|
|
Benagain posted:And it's a little bit her fault too, because she made him stay in a form where he doesn't appear to have the emotional maturity or wisdom to deal with that. Which lead to him escalating, which I can't see him doing in his wolf form.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2010 01:43
|
|
|
100 HOGS AGREE posted:He wasn't trying to change into his wolf form, he was trying to pop back into an inert stuffed animal to end the conversation. I think this might be it, that Renard WAS trying to avoid a conflict with Annie by playing dead (inert)... but she wouldn't let him. Renard wanted some time to himself to try and recover from what Annie had just told him... but again she wouldn't let him. She pretty much backed him into a corner, and when it comes to a 'fight or flight' instinct it's pretty easy to see what the outcome will be when every 'flight' option is eliminated. Again, in the span of roughly 30 seconds Annie pretty much atomized a belief that Renard held near and dear to his heart (Surma loved him just as much as he loved her), prevented him from retreating inside his stuffed animal shell to try and deal with it, then forced him to sit there while she continued to tee off on him and pick at the newly made wound on his heart. Annie humiliated Renard and dared him to try and do anything about it... so he did (and almost immediately regretted doing so). Yes Renard is hardly innocent in this situation, and his response to the bombshell Annie dropped on him isn't close to being the best one he could've used. Still, echoing a sentiment that a few other people in the Court possibly share ("I think your dad was quite a dick. I don't know what Surma ever saw in him.") hardly warrants what Annie did in response, deep-seated daddy issues or not.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2010 03:48
|
|
|
Pick posted:Boy, way to go Renard! You just devastated an emotionally-damaged kid with a dead mom, an absent dad, and no one she feels she can fully trust! Boy, I bet you're really loving proud of yourself. Gotta be the apex of your centuries, this one. At least he has the decency to feel badly afterwards. Your average folklore figure is rarely a paragon of maturity and empathy.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2010 04:47
|
|
|
quote:Yes Renard is hardly innocent in this situation, and his response to the bombshell Annie dropped on him isn't close to being the best one he could've used. Still, echoing a sentiment that a few other people in the Court possibly share ("I think your dad was quite a dick. I don't know what Surma ever saw in him.") hardly warrants what Annie did in response, deep-seated daddy issues or not. And honestly, I'd argue that Annie needs someone to fight against the vastly overinflated view she has of her father. Her father's basically treating her in a way that's near abusive, and no one that knew him can say anything good about him. She needs to come down from that idealised view and be prepared to move on, or by the time she meets him for real - or finds out he's never coming back, which would seem totally plausible to many people that knew him - she's going to have a devastating and horrible shock. Rey's a dick about it, but hiding from her what their real feelings on Anthony is hardly the more moral option, in the long term.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2010 05:57
|
|
quote:Her father's basically treating her in a way that's near abusive, and no one that knew him can say anything good about him. The people that bad mouth him outright are her ex, and the dog that killed a man to be with her. It's sour grapes. If they had the chance, they would have absolutely done the exact same thing. They would have taken Surma, run away, and tried to have a family with her while looking for some way to keep her from dying. Only she didn't choose them, did she? She left them in their wacky, bullshit court and went off and had her own life. She choose death with Anthony and Antimony over life with them. It's a bunch of losers badmouthing the winner. No more or less. And it's kind of insanely loving obvious and insulting to their child. "I totally would have been better for Surma than *that* dick!". I mean he shouldn't be so distant, granted, but we really don't know *why* he's gone. It could be "poo poo dad" up to "Wacky magical bullshit, up to and including making sure this doesn't happen to his daughter in the future". Still probably should have dropped a letter or something by this point, yeah. Until we know *why* he's gone though, it's just guess work. And trying to destroy a little girl's father because of it seems...jumping the gun slightly. That's very much something you ease into. Renard and Eglamore need to back off their creepy Surma worship. Like, a lot. And as for Anthony...dude is a cipher, and we have zero information to make any judgments on anything he's done. We've seen plenty of Surma flashbacks, we've heard people talk about her, but we know nothing about the original recipe Carver.
|
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2010 14:35
|
|
|
quote:I mean he shouldn't be so distant, granted, but we really don't know *why* he's gone. It could be "poo poo dad" up to "Wacky magical bullshit, up to and including making sure this doesn't happen to his daughter in the future". Still probably should have dropped a letter or something by this point, yeah. Until we know *why* he's gone though, it's just guess work. And trying to destroy a little girl's father because of it seems...jumping the gun slightly. That's very much something you ease into. If the only excuse you have for Anthony is 'weird previously unmentioned magic that makes it impossible to, you know, make a phone call', and 'maybe he's going to do something to ensure Antimony doesn't get ill too when sometime in the next decades she decides to have a child, and that's more important than being around during Annie's childhood', then this is pretty freaking weak. You might are well speculate that Anja might have had it wrong and Surma actually did love Rey towards the end. The point of Rey and Eglamore is quite simple: it's not that they would have been better for Surma - but that they would have, and currently are better for Antimony, than that douche Anthony. And in the end, Surma chose the Court over Anthony. She sent Antimony to the Court. (And of course, this is assuming that Anthony didn't have Surma conceive Antimony on Court orders. The group of childhood friends of Surma we see are vaguely a dissident faction within the court, after all - they sent Annie and Kat to Diego's basement, and had them investigate the Jeanne issue.) Fangz fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Dec 2, 2010 |
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2010 19:32
|
|
|
Gunnerkrigg Court -- in this comic, everyone is a dick
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2010 19:58
|
|
|
Fangz posted:The group of childhood friends of Surma we see are vaguely a dissident faction within the court, after all - they sent Annie and Kat to Diego's basement, and had them investigate the Jeanne issue.) No they didn't? All that Anja knew about Diego's basement was that there were a bunch of robots that didn't work. It wasn't until Annie and Kat put Robot's chip in the right model that the elaborate fight started, and then Robot revealed Jeanne's memorial. The only one's who have specifically said to investigate Jeanne have been Muut and Jones, and Jones seemed to be more interested in letting Antimony develop her skills than bringing down the court.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2010 20:01
|
|
|
FredMSloniker posted:Gunnerkrigg Court -- in this comic, everyone is a dick 
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2010 20:01
|
|
|
Fecha posted:Mort is a lovely person. Except when he's making unwarranted claims to your person! The cad! Boxbot's the real unsung hero.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2010 20:16
|
|
|
quote:No they didn't? All that Anja knew about Diego's basement was that there were a bunch of robots that didn't work. It wasn't until Annie and Kat put Robot's chip in the right model that the elaborate fight started, and then Robot revealed Jeanne's memorial. My reading was always that the scene with the two afterwards suggested that they knew something was up. http://www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=401 And then how that led to her telling them how to use the Blinker stone (which Anja has some experience with using...), and how to remote view through it, as well as a story about how Anja is pushing the boundaries of science. http://www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=522 There's other hints too, like: http://www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=547 Also, Jones's position is odd, to say the least. She did say to Antimony that the Court and Gillitie Wood were equally as bad. OKAY, it's total supposition! Whatever! Detetsu posted:
Get out. Fangz fucked around with this message at 20:52 on Dec 2, 2010 |
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2010 20:30
|
|
|
Detetsu posted:Boxbot's the real unsung hero. Wow, I didn't know it was possible to misspell Robox that badly. The 19th Person fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Dec 2, 2010 |
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2010 20:40
|
|
quote:She sent Antimony to the Court. Well, no, Anthony actually did that in the end. And yeah, you need a bit more than "He's not here now" to attack a child's only living parent. Absolutely nothing good comes from it done badly, as it just was. Even if you are right, you still need to do it carefully or it just blows up in your face. It's not about the actual condition of the parent you are badmouthing, it's about how it impacts the child. quote:The point of Rey and Eglamore is quite simple: it's not that they would have been better for Surma - but that they would have, and currently are better for Antimony, than that douche Anthony. Both constantly compare her to her dead mother, badmouth her father, and one of them just told her she killed her mother and everyone knew it was going to happen. No, they both suck. They suck so bad.
|
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2010 20:40
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 15:42 |
|
|
Wong Dongson posted:Well, no, Anthony actually did that in the end. I think that "he's not here and hasn't been here for the last two years" is cause for a little consernation, and we've already been over how Renard and Annie have been digging deeper holes one another for the whole chapter when it comes to awful truths. For most of the comic the impression we've gotten is that Anthony was misunderstood or wrongfully maligned, and Renard was some kind of psychopathic body-snatcher. Now it's circling back around to Renard being a lot more conflicted that he let on, and Anthony being just as big a prick as people said he was.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2010 20:43
|
|
