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andrew smash posted:torchlight is 3d, or at least a 2d game on a 3d engine. regardless the art works nicely. Yeah the worst you can say for Torchlight is "samey". I have to think that someone who might be more focussed on more interesting dungeons could take that success and run with it. Heck, Daggerfall almost made it if it weren't for totally broken paths, seemingly endless meandering dungeons, and pits of death.
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Dec 1, 2010 06:45
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Minecraft might be a better example, since it generates a 3d landscape, caves and all. I'd imagine that a company with more than one coder and some money to blow could probably find a way to do randomly generated 3d dungeons.
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Dec 1, 2010 08:26
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minecraft literally has no art assets to blend together, I really like its pixelated style but the terrain generator can get away with a lot when all it has to come up with is "a bunch of sand" next to "a bunch of rock" inside "a hole"
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Dec 1, 2010 15:44
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You could totally do it like Minecraft if you did everything with tons upon tons of Voxels! 
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Dec 1, 2010 16:01
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The thing about a lot of random dungeon games is 90% of the time it doesn't really MATTER. Take Torchlight for example; sure the layout of the level is going to be different every time, but you could achieve the same gameplay effect by taking a fixed map and randomizing the locations of enemy spawns and treasure chests. The actual layout of the rooms themselves really make no difference to the player; it's not like Spelunky where it can be more or less challenging because of platforming obstacles generated by the map layout. So a lot of the challenges involved with actually generated good looking random 3D maps are sort of pointless unless you can make the randomization of the maps actually meaningful to the game. An interesting case of dungeon randomization is the old D&D roguelike Dungeon Hack (They should get that one on GoG!) It generates random maze layouts, but also generates "puzzles" in the form of key/door combinations, and ensures that they're always possible even if you enable the option to allow for multi-level differences between where a key is found and where a door is found (basically it just carves out a maze until the RNG says "make a door", then places a key in the area that's already been drawn). It's still pretty basic but it's something.
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Dec 1, 2010 16:57
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Diablo 3 does some clever things as far as combining random dungeons with interesting setpieces.Svampson posted:You could totally do it like Minecraft if you did everything with tons upon tons of Voxels! You joke, but at least one guy in the Minecraft thread has expounded a theory where you could make the blocks about a tenth their current size, and have tools scoop them out more than one at a time. Doable, and probably would be incredibly awesome. I honestly can't wait for the first and second generation of professional Minecraft clones.
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Dec 1, 2010 17:06
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Doc Hawkins posted:Diablo 3 does some clever things as far as combining random dungeons with interesting setpieces. Not just doable, but it's even been done before. Just not on Minecraft's scale; and if you did try to create a voxel landscape as big as Minecraft you'd probably run into major slowdown and memory issues unless the guy writing it was a genius at efficiency code.
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Dec 1, 2010 17:08
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The Cheshire Cat posted:Not just doable, but it's even been done before. Just not on Minecraft's scale; and if you did try to create a voxel landscape as big as Minecraft you'd probably run into major slowdown and memory issues unless the guy writing it was a genius at efficiency code. You are describing Ken Silverman and he's pretty much already abused the hell out of voxels.
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Dec 1, 2010 17:19
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On that note Voxelstein is a pretty rad proof of concept edit: Though playing with it for the first time in about 2 years I didn't recall how much random weird poo poo this game has like pictures of the Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold and other trying-to-be-offensive stuff on the walls. Also reading the forums and finding out that the guy working on it is racist as hell was a bummer! Oh well Voxels are still rad Svampson fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Dec 1, 2010 |
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Dec 1, 2010 18:04
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Maybe not a great game, but Hellgate London had a random map generator (at least for some zones i reckon) and it was fully 3d with semi-big open spaces, and lots of lovely subway corridors. Its definately doable if you sacrifice detail or complexity of the enviroment.
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Dec 1, 2010 22:51
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There's no reason somebody couldn't design a really good and detailed random level generator. Saying things like the art wouldn't blend is silly. A good generator would make it blend. Just because Daggerfall and Hellgate didn't do a very good job with it, doesn't mean that some company won't someday put a lot of effort into it and make a great one. I sure hope they do, because I love random levels. 
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Dec 1, 2010 23:05
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It's just an algorithm. It's just effort, ingenuity, and time. These things all cost money, of course.
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Dec 1, 2010 23:12
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Guillermus posted:Maybe not a great game, but Hellgate London had a random map generator (at least for some zones i reckon) and it was fully 3d with semi-big open spaces, and lots of lovely subway corridors. Its definately doable if you sacrifice detail or complexity of the enviroment. Anarchy online had random mission maps too, and they basically worked how you'd expect - 4 or 5 different tilesets, and then various rooms in different sizes with random chests and stuff. They got samey, but it was a decent way of doing them and you could run through quite a few before getting bored because of the enemy variety. I'm pretty sure some other MMORPGs also did random maps in similar ways too, so it really wouldn't surprise me if we started to see some more content like that in RPGs over the next few years.
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Dec 1, 2010 23:18
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signalnoise posted:$$$ This is the issue right here, there is no financial incentive to make random levels. By far the average game buyer wants a game you can get a strategy guide for that tells you where everything is and the people who love random poo poo (like me) get their fix from roguelikes.
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Dec 2, 2010 01:10
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andrew smash posted:This is the issue right here, there is no financial incentive to make random levels. By far the average game buyer wants a game you can get a strategy guide for that tells you where everything is and the people who love random poo poo (like me) get their fix from roguelikes. Ehhh, this is a bit too black and white a view to fit the real world. There are a lot of projects that come from unorthodox sources that continually amaze us. I'm not saying that this will happen or that it will be easy, but it certainly is possible, especially considering there has been a proven concept and people like you who would enjoy it. No one is saying that such a thing would have to come from a major studio/publisher. Honestly, I think it doesn't exist because no one really focussed on it before. Torchlight did an admirable job of it and I'd wager other parts of the game took up far more of their effort and resources.
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Dec 2, 2010 01:19
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One game on the horizon that's big on procedural generation is Subversion, made by the guys that brought you Uplink, Defcon, and Darwinia. The development blog goes pretty in-depth about all the aspects of the game and the game engine.
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Dec 2, 2010 01:35
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I just want a random planet generator for space exploration games. X4 with fully rendered planets you can land on *sperm flies everywhere*
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Dec 2, 2010 03:49
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Yeah, we got one'a them.
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Dec 2, 2010 04:12
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Doc Hawkins posted:Yeah, we got one'a them. I've been following this off and on for a few years but just like Subversion (which is awesome and Introversion deserves as much love as possible) it's one of those things that just can't come out fast enough. If I were a big corporation like Activision or something I'd create a small development house solely devoted to making experimental projects like this. Noby Noby Boy was an interesting experiment in creating random 3D environments with objects that interact with each other in simple ways that you wouldn't normally expect. Roguelikes have been pioneering the design for years but they still aren't wholly sophisticated yet. I just think it would be cool to see real time interaction with the environment without direct programming. Something like having a monster take an empty bucket generated in his lair, filling the bucket with leftover grease generated from the rat he cooked, then using the grease to spread it on stairs leading to his lair is the kind of advanced intelligence I expect to see as a result of procedural generation. It's a rant saved for another topic but we really need more PC developers in the market. It's apparent that the current generation of consoles will be sticking around for at least another 2-4 years and without a demanding PC market seen in the late 80s and 90s, technology (in the video game world) feels like it's slowing down to a crawl.
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Dec 2, 2010 05:18
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New games: Moto Racer 2 Alien Shooter + expansions Both $5.99. In other news, GoG plans surprises everyday until December 14, and a carol contest. http://www.gog.com/en/page/dec2010
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Dec 2, 2010 14:32
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The MSJ posted:New games: I can't comment on Moto Racer, but I'd advise anyone interested in Alien Shooter to pick up Alien Shooter 2 or Zombie Shooter 1/2 on Steam instead. The first Alien Shooter is kind of rough, and the later games are significantly more polished.
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Dec 2, 2010 15:12
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404notfound posted:One game on the horizon that's big on procedural generation is Subversion, made by the guys that brought you Uplink, Defcon, and Darwinia. The development blog goes pretty in-depth about all the aspects of the game and the game engine. Seriously how did I not know about this game until now? This is SO SIMILAR to an idea I had a while ago, though me just being one guy I figured it would never happen since it was too far outside the mainstream and I don't have the resources/skills to make it myself. I think I need to go buy Defcon and Darwinia just to make sure this game actually happens (I already have Uplink :P)
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Dec 2, 2010 15:37
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404notfound posted:One game on the horizon that's big on procedural generation is Subversion, made by the guys that brought you Uplink, Defcon, and Darwinia. The development blog goes pretty in-depth about all the aspects of the game and the game engine. A good chunk of gameplay footage here. Supposedly one of the earliest scenarios on the game, from when you're just commanding a bunch of guys with guns and some tools, rather than a proper espionage organization. It looks fantastic. A 'silent' bank heist that goes slightly wrong, and people end up shot, and the guy with the money gets locked in the high-security area.
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Dec 2, 2010 15:41
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Wow that looks amazing. I think I'd have a ball playing a game like that.
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Dec 2, 2010 16:56
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Dominic White posted:A good chunk of gameplay footage here. Supposedly one of the earliest scenarios on the game, from when you're just commanding a bunch of guys with guns and some tools, rather than a proper espionage organization. Isn't that the game that keeps threatening to put the company under? And that poor developer looks like a cancer patient 
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Dec 2, 2010 16:59
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Magnificent Quiver posted:Isn't that the game that keeps threatening to put the company under? From the scope of it, I wouldn't be surprised. It almost seems more like a computer science research project than a game; VERY interesting from a technical perspective, and certainly a lot of fun to mess around with if you're the kind of person that likes to mess with complex systems just to see what happens, but it's just not going to appeal to the CoD/Halo/etc. mainstream twitch shooter crowd or the Farmville/Bejeweled/etc. casual games crowd. Those two groups are where the big money in games is; projects like this one are the kinds of things that should get university research grants.
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Dec 2, 2010 17:08
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Magnificent Quiver posted:Isn't that the game that keeps threatening to put the company under? I'd gladly lay £10 down as a pre-order to help make this game happen.
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Dec 2, 2010 17:28
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Me too, especially if they let me download and play around with early broken builds. I don't care if nothing works, I just want to generate cities and make stupid over-complex gadgets that blow up in my face! With procedurally generated music! Of course, this would lead to a rehash of the Minecraft drama, so maybe Introversion would not prefer that. Magnificent Quiver posted:Isn't that the game that keeps threatening to put the company under? For Introversion, every game has been that game.
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Dec 2, 2010 17:34
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Doc Hawkins posted:Me too, especially if they let me download and play around with early broken builds. I don't care if nothing works, I just want to generate cities and make stupid over-complex gadgets that blow up in my face! With procedurally generated music! They could probably sell the city generator as a screen saver as part of a donation drive to keep the project going. I'd buy it; hell I already have a similar one as my current screen saver (found here, an interesting read along the same lines of procedurally generated content), but the ones generated by Subversion look a lot cooler. *edit* Does Subversion have a thread?
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Dec 2, 2010 17:39
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Mr Right posted:I'd gladly lay £10 down as a pre-order to help make this game happen. I did this for Frozen Synapse and I don't regret it
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Dec 2, 2010 17:48
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Dominic White posted:A good chunk of gameplay footage here. Supposedly one of the earliest scenarios on the game, from when you're just commanding a bunch of guys with guns and some tools, rather than a proper espionage organization. That developer looks really unhealthy. But Subversion looks great. I've been waiting for it for a while.
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Dec 2, 2010 18:19
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signalnoise posted:I did this for Frozen Synapse and I don't regret it Me too  I only played Frozen Synapse for about 30 minutes but it's definitely something I'll be back to when I have the time.
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Dec 2, 2010 18:26
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The Cheshire Cat posted:*edit* Does Subversion have a thread?  (no, you should make one)
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Dec 2, 2010 18:37
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Update to the 14 days of Christmas thingamajig.. Serious Sam 1 is now permanently $5.99
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Dec 3, 2010 02:16
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The Cheshire Cat posted:but it's just not going to appeal to the CoD/Halo/etc. mainstream twitch shooter crowd or the Farmville/Bejeweled/etc. casual games crowd. Those two groups are where the big money in games is For a smaller studio, they may not need to appeal to these crowds to turn a tidy profit. The same was once said about the casual market: "Ha ha, who's going to pay actual money for this?" Enough, it turns out. Of course, this is Introversion, and they tend to take way too long and hinge way too much on a single product. Drooling over this game, though, I wonder if I could actually rope my friends into both paying for it and playing it. And if it's going to actually be fun for me, or if it's going to be more of an intellectual curiosity.
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Dec 3, 2010 02:48
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Adventure titles 50% off this weekend. http://www.gog.com/en/promo/adventure_titles
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Dec 3, 2010 13:29
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The MSJ posted:Adventure titles 50% off this weekend. The Longest Journey and Sanitarium are must-gets for anyone at that price. TLJ is one of the best traditional adventure games ever. It's like a swan song of a dying genre point-n-click adventure seemed to be at the time.
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Dec 3, 2010 14:10
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Going to put in my endorsement for The Longest Journey at $5. Definitely a must buy if you have any interest in the adventure genre. Great story, great characters, great voicework, nice puzzles, and one of the best protagonist I've ever played as. The pre-rendered environments are also quite a treat particularly the futuristic world.
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Dec 3, 2010 14:15
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This is the first GOG sale I've seen where I already own all of them. Highly recommend both Journeyman and Longest Journey. Journeyman 2 at $2.99 is a loving steal. It's a first-person adventure game with really great atmosphere, smart puzzle design, and one of the funniest characters I've seen put in a game (Arthur). macnbc fucked around with this message at 14:19 on Dec 3, 2010 |
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Dec 3, 2010 14:16
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I never really understood all the love The Longest Journey gets. I'm not trying to come off all  "I hate it because it's popular", I just couldn't find any enjoyment in it. The puzzles suffered from adventure-game-itis (rubber duck puzzle anyone), I found the writing terribly dull, and didn't really care for, well, any of the characters. I really wanted to like it too. Sanitarium, I wholeheartedly endorse. Such an awesome game.
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Dec 3, 2010 16:09
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