warbrides posted:I always remember this whenever anyone says anything remotely bad about WCW. They really did do a lot (mostly by accident) to promote the future workers of the industry. Well they mostly pissed off the next generation of talent so badly that when they had the opportunity to go to the WWE they had a point to prove.
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Dec 6, 2010 22:28
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Skinty McEdger posted:Well they mostly pissed off the next generation of talent so badly that when they had the opportunity to go to the WWE they had a point to prove. And its not like WCW was able to discover stars and diamonds in the rough either. They just massively overhired, had anyone who could tie a boot under contract, and let them eat each other in two hours of unscripted television. WWE just swooped down and picked the handful that made it to the top of pile.
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Dec 6, 2010 22:30
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El Axo Grande posted:WWE just swooped down and picked the handful that made it to the top of pile. Or at least the ones who belonged at the top of the pile but weren't there because WCW was loving stupid. I'm pretty much talking specifically about Chris Jericho, although there are others.
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Dec 6, 2010 22:35
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Karmine posted:Or at least the ones who belonged at the top of the pile but weren't there because WCW was loving stupid. I referred to the pile of aimless midcarders Jericho, Guerrero, Benoit, Malenko, etc. had all pretty clearly established themselves as the kings of poo poo mountain.
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Dec 6, 2010 22:37
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I sometimes wonder how much of a loving chump Billy Kidman must have felt like when Benoit, Malenko, Guererro and Saturn went to WWE and got recognition while he got one meaningless win and then got treated like a loser forever
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Dec 6, 2010 22:54
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Lamuella posted:I sometimes wonder how much of a loving chump Billy Kidman must have felt like when Benoit, Malenko, Guererro and Saturn went to WWE and got recognition while he got one meaningless win and then got treated like a loser forever In all fairness, the only reason he ever got a main event push is because he was the only white cruiserweight
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Dec 6, 2010 23:05
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El Axo Grande posted:In all fairness, the only reason he ever got a main event push is because he was the only white cruiserweight “You will never ever, ever, ever, ever see the Japanese wrestlers or the Mexican wrestlers over in American mainstream wrestling. I’m an American. If I’m watching wrestling here in America, I don’t give a poo poo about a Japanese guy. I don’t give a poo poo about a Mexican guy. I’m from America, and that’s what I want to see.”
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Dec 6, 2010 23:18
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Ziggy Tsardust posted:“You will never ever, ever, ever, ever see the Japanese wrestlers or the Mexican wrestlers over in American mainstream wrestling. I’m an American. If I’m watching wrestling here in America, I don’t give a poo poo about a Japanese guy. I don’t give a poo poo about a Mexican guy. I’m from America, and that’s what I want to see.” The worst part of that opinion is that wrestling, even during the days when Russo was a kid watching Bruno in the WWWF, always made tons of money having people wanting to watch foreigners as evil heels. Evil heels make money and people want to see the foreigners versus their homegrown natives. It's what made Japan's wrestling boom and what made many companies in many different eras. Russo never really clued into that.
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Dec 6, 2010 23:23
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Lone Rogue posted:The worst part of that opinion is that wrestling, even during the days when Russo was a kid watching Bruno in the WWWF, always made tons of money having people wanting to watch foreigners as evil heels. Evil heels make money and people want to see the foreigners versus their homegrown natives. It's what made Japan's wrestling boom and what made many companies in many different eras. So you are saying that basically Russo is clueless about wrestling?
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Dec 6, 2010 23:31
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Lone Rogue posted:The worst part of that opinion is that wrestling, even during the days when Russo was a kid watching Bruno in the WWWF, always made tons of money having people wanting to watch foreigners as evil heels. Evil heels make money and people want to see the foreigners versus their homegrown natives. It's what made Japan's wrestling boom and what made many companies in many different eras. Bruno Sammartino was a foreigner. A huge part of his appeal was that he is an Italian immigrant. A face does not have to be home grown, he simply needs to have a connection to that audience.
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Dec 6, 2010 23:43
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MassRayPer posted:Bruno Sammartino was a foreigner. A huge part of his appeal was that he is an Italian immigrant. A face does not have to be home grown, he simply needs to have a connection to that audience. Good point. Bret was popular everywhere as a Canadian. Same to Jericho and Benoit. Russo looked at Eddie as a Mexican even though he was from Texas, etc.
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Dec 6, 2010 23:45
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Lone Rogue posted:Good point. When Russo says "American", it's pretty clear he means "White Guy".
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Dec 7, 2010 04:50
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I know I'm about a yea late, but I just want to weigh in on the New Blood Vs Millionare's Club Heel/Face thing. The New Blood were undoubtedly the heel's, that was my impression watching it at age ten and that was the impression I got when I watched the whole Russo run over again last year. That's not to say he didn't have the Millionar'es Club engage in heelish behaviour sometimes, but I think Russo was trying blur the line between black and white as ambiguity is always a central theme in Russo's work. I can totally understand though how people can view this all out of context and just think it's a WCW booking massacre, though. The whole era has a kind of volatile feel to it and saw Russo take a more ECW type approach to the heel/face dynamic and it seemed like to me in the end, Russo was happy to let the fans decide who to root for, it wasn't Russo's place to make value judgments about who they should be suppourting, in his mind it was his job to put together a story to get two guys in the ring together with an interesting enough story to get the fans interested enough to pick a character in the confrontation to side with, who this was is inconsequential to Russo because they are both the companies talant, win-win, right? Once again, it boils down to Russo being too post-modern for his target audience and executing it poorly, anyway. It's actually funny, when I was a ten year old watching Russo's second run, I always assumed I was missing giant plot chunks on Thunder which didn't air in Australia, which was the reason the plot seemed so erratic. How naive I was. LividLiquid posted:I don't really think anybody argues that Russo can set up the chess pieces. He's just never been able to make with the follow-through. I think this quote sums it up. Russo really needed someone to refine his ideas before they went to air with more of a focus on the wrestling industry rather than being as enterianment industry centric as Russo was, as stupid as it sounds someone like Cornette would have been ideal for this, after listening to his booking if the Invasion he's never seemed so similar to Russo to me, maybe just with his head 20 years in the past as opposed to stuck 20 years into a non-existant future. Sue Denim fucked around with this message at 11:22 on Dec 23, 2010 |
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Dec 23, 2010 10:52
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Bumping this and getting rid of the other thread.
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Feb 13, 2011 03:30
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Some things to talk about : The Best of Nitro 3 Disc DVD set coming out later this year, hosted by DDP. Also, the WCW Nitro Arena is available for download on the PS3 version of Smackdown vs Raw 2011. (It will be downloadable for 360 "soon") seen here
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Feb 13, 2011 03:35
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Also, last month was the 10 year anniversary of Bischoff announcing he had bought WCW with Fusient, next month is the 10 year anniversary of Vince buying WCW. Last month was also the 10 year anniversary of Zuffa's purchase of UFC.
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Feb 13, 2011 03:40
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ADRIEN GRODYS FIFE posted:Some things to talk about : The Best of Nitro 3 Disc DVD set coming out later this year, hosted by DDP. Also, the WCW Nitro Arena is available for download on the PS3 version of Smackdown vs Raw 2011. (It will be downloadable for 360 "soon") seen here Have they announced what matches are going to be on the DVD?
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Feb 13, 2011 03:41
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MassRayPer posted:Also, last month was the 10 year anniversary of Bischoff announcing he had bought WCW with Fusient, next month is the 10 year anniversary of Vince buying WCW. So 10 years on, who from WCW at the end benefited the most from the purchase? I'm not counting guys who came over earlier or later, only guys that came over with the purchase. My initial thought is Booker T, he had feuds with many of the biggest names in the WWE after that and 10 years on is now back with the WWE for a stint as an announcer. Is there someone I'm not thinking of who has done better?
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Feb 13, 2011 03:50
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kdrudy posted:So 10 years on, who from WCW at the end benefited the most from the purchase? I'm not counting guys who came over earlier or later, only guys that came over with the purchase. The one with the best job security is Chavo, Arn Anderson, and little Naitch
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Feb 13, 2011 03:54
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kdrudy posted:So 10 years on, who from WCW at the end benefited the most from the purchase? I'm not counting guys who came over earlier or later, only guys that came over with the purchase. Sting: Got paid 500,000+ a year to work 25 times a year.
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Feb 13, 2011 03:54
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MassRayPer posted:Sting: Got paid 500,000+ a year to work 25 times a year. On top of the money he got to sit at home in 2001-2002.
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Feb 13, 2011 03:56
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El Duke posted:On top of the money he got to sit at home in 2001-2002. And in 1997.
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Feb 13, 2011 04:09
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TL posted:And in 1997. That's a bit different because he'd already earned that money; he was sitting around partly because he'd have to be paid extra for any further matches during that time.
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Feb 13, 2011 05:24
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Nash has made money without working too hard. Goldberg made a ton of money for a year of work. In terms of who suffered the most, I'd probably say Junior Fatu. He was looking like a main eventer until the WCW sale went down and then...nothing.
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Feb 13, 2011 06:33
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Captain Charisma posted:Nash has made money without working too hard. Goldberg made a ton of money for a year of work. Let's look at this: Armageddon 2000: Ends the year in the main event, for the world title. Has the biggest spot in the match, replayed over and over again on WWF Television. Royal Rumble 2001: Fatu wins the 30th spot in the Rumble, guaranteeing prominence and seeming to assuredly put him into the final four of the match. Instead, the WWF decides to go with 2001's Dolph Ziggler, Billy Gunn, to be in the final four, with Fatu being eliminated one spot before. The Fatu/Austin program had already been unfairly cut short, and the Rumble only furthered the injustices that were being placed against Junior Fatu during this time period. But it must also be noted that he was targetted by the two biggest stars in the company, Austin and Rock, in the Rumble, effectively making him third biggest name in the entire Rumble that year. Also, he eliminates the Undertaker during the Rumble, probably fourth biggest name in the match. No Way Out 2001: Fatu is relegated to Heat. This may seem like a setback, and that he was already in decline before the WCW buyout: he was actually in a holding pattern for the time being, waiting for two main angles (Austin/HHH and Angle/Rock) to resolve that month before starting his eventual Wrestlemania feud. Unfortunately, this would never happen. An eardrum injury would sideline Fatu until May of that year. By this time, the WCW buyout had occurred, and obviously, as so often happens... Plans changed. Fatu was left on the outside, looking in, never to achieve those heights he reached again in late 2000 and early 2001. Many have wondered what the buyrate would have looked like for a Rock/Austin/Fatu three way main event at WMX-7 would have looked like? Or what a Three Man Power Trip would have meant for the company in those months after Mania? Would 2001 ratings eclipse the heights of 2000? Would the buyrates have been so huge that it would have made even the XFL successful, somehow? We'll never know now, and it all goes back to one incident: the purchase of World Championship Wrestling by the Coward Vince McMahon.
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Feb 13, 2011 06:51
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What about Rey Mysterio? He was fairly popular but more or less a midcarder in WCW, comes in to WWE and works his way up to main eventer, is a multi-time WHC champion (lovely reigns or not) and has been one the biggest stars in the company for like the last 5 years.
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Feb 13, 2011 07:57
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Suben posted:What about Rey Mysterio? He was fairly popular but more or less a midcarder in WCW, comes in to WWE and works his way up to main eventer, is a multi-time WHC champion (lovely reigns or not) and has been one the biggest stars in the company for like the last 5 years. He did not come over with the purchase so he is invalid.
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Feb 13, 2011 08:04
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MMA People Wrestling fans LOVE talking about how bad WCW became. If you want to entertain a wrestling fan, ask them about the following WCW and: Russo NWO Jericho Goldberg Sting Ric Flair
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Feb 13, 2011 09:46
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Also, mention you heard that Ultimate Warrior came back for another match with Hulk Hogan, and say that sounds cool there's no way anyone could blow a money-making program like that. People will go all kinds of fun colors before they're finished responding!
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Feb 13, 2011 10:15
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Also the other thread was closed so I'll say it here: Rise & Fall of WCW is garbage. I expected merely a whitewashing and it's so much worse.
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Feb 13, 2011 11:16
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Captain Charisma posted:Also the other thread was closed so I'll say it here: Rise & Fall of WCW is garbage. I expected merely a whitewashing and it's so much worse. It's in the spirit of "we'reouttatimeseeyouonThunder!!!" Except... There is no Thunder. 
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Feb 13, 2011 11:50
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I mean, I get that they can't essentially do a 10 hour Ken Burns style documentary, and they're basically selling to a niche portion of their fanbase. But they spent so much time talking about stupid poo poo very quickly, and they glossed over so much, even the stuff that would have made WCW look bad! Where was GAB 91 & Starrcade 97? How do you make a WCW documentary without those? How was Russo's segment like 3 minutes?
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Feb 13, 2011 12:55
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crossposting this from the other thread, but this is the highpoint of WCW and I'll fight anyone who says different(I won't actually fight anyone, I'm a sissy)
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Feb 13, 2011 13:09
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MonsterUnderYourBed posted:crossposting this from the other thread, but this is the highpoint of WCW and I'll fight anyone who says different(I won't actually fight anyone, I'm a sissy) It's certainly the most I ever enjoyed WCW.
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Feb 13, 2011 18:28
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Captain Charisma posted:I mean, I get that they can't essentially do a 10 hour Ken Burns style documentary, and they're basically selling to a niche portion of their fanbase. But they spent so much time talking about stupid poo poo very quickly, and they glossed over so much, even the stuff that would have made WCW look bad! Where was GAB 91 & Starrcade 97? How do you make a WCW documentary without those? How was Russo's segment like 3 minutes? JR mentioned in a recent interview (or blog I can't remember the exact source) that alot of the documentaries that include bits on WCW are gonna be a bit wonky because WWE now owns WCW and doesn't want to 'devalue their own brand'. So take that as you will about why they aren't as harsh on WCW's really stupid decisions as they should be. The book written on the lunacy in WCW and it's fall by the wrestlecrap dudes was a pretty good read if you've never read it. It goes into detail about all that stuff.
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Feb 13, 2011 20:00
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Captain Charisma posted:I mean, I get that they can't essentially do a 10 hour Ken Burns style documentary, and they're basically selling to a niche portion of their fanbase. But they spent so much time talking about stupid poo poo very quickly, and they glossed over so much, even the stuff that would have made WCW look bad! Where was GAB 91 & Starrcade 97? How do you make a WCW documentary without those? How was Russo's segment like 3 minutes?
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Feb 13, 2011 20:16
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Mr. Carlisle posted:JR mentioned in a recent interview (or blog I can't remember the exact source) that alot of the documentaries that include bits on WCW are gonna be a bit wonky because WWE now owns WCW and doesn't want to 'devalue their own brand'. So take that as you will about why they aren't as harsh on WCW's really stupid decisions as they should be. Yeah, the Death of WCW book was a lot better than the Rise and Fall DVD, probably because the book was willing to come from a position of "look at all of this stupid poo poo that they did, I mean look at it, it's so stupid", where the WWE's DVD was more "yeah, there were some poor decisions made". As this thread shows, it's hard to look at WCW without maikng fun of it at all.
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Feb 13, 2011 20:47
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MonsterUnderYourBed posted:crossposting this from the other thread, but this is the highpoint of WCW and I'll fight anyone who says different(I won't actually fight anyone, I'm a sissy) This was sold so well and no one saw it coming, seeing how Malenko was never that charismatic and the bulk of the feud had to be built up by Jericho I still can't believe no one in WCW thought that Jericho had main event potential.
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Feb 13, 2011 20:57
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The Rise and Fall of WCW is really disappointing because the Rise and Fall of ECW was so awesome. I assume it's because they had to reuse a lot of old interviews due to a lot of the people ending up in TNA or something like that. Just a thought.
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Feb 13, 2011 21:02
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Captain Charisma posted:Also the other thread was closed so I'll say it here: Rise & Fall of WCW is garbage. I expected merely a whitewashing and it's so much worse. Tully vs. Magnum more than made up for it.
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Feb 13, 2011 21:05
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