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graph
Nov 22, 2006

aaag peanuts

movax posted:

Though screaming about 23.976 vs 24.000 is a new one to me.

No, I don't think it's that.

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Henrik Zetterberg
Dec 7, 2007

JawnV6 posted:

If any of the other SNB vets in FM want to meet up for lunch or at least to awkwardly stare at each other's shoes, hit me up on PM.

Sorry I spend my lunches browsing SA internet forums in the lab.

Gunder
May 22, 2003

If you're not planning on doing any overclocking, is there any point at all in getting the K versions of these chips? I was planning on getting a 2500. I have been told: "Overclocking the thing will be dead simple if you're not trying to max it out, and the cost increase is so minimal I personally think it would be worth it. It's only $11 more, after all. Any particular reason you're opposed to overclocking?". The thing is, I've always thought that overclocking gives you minimal performance at the cost of stability. Is this no longer the case? Am I a fool for not getting the 2500k?

greasyhands
Oct 28, 2006

Best quality posts,
freshly delivered

Gunder posted:

If you're not planning on doing any overclocking, is there any point at all in getting the K versions of these chips? I was planning on getting a 2500. I have been told: "Overclocking the thing will be dead simple if you're not trying to max it out, and the cost increase is so minimal I personally think it would be worth it. It's only $11 more, after all. Any particular reason you're opposed to overclocking?". The thing is, I've always thought that overclocking gives you minimal performance at the cost of stability. Is this no longer the case? Am I a fool for not getting the 2500k?

It never was the case really, and the whole overclocking game has changed with Sandy Bridge so even if were once remotely true, it isn't anymore. Overclocking on Sandy Bridge no longer messes with the system buses and whatever happens to be running on them, it simply changes the multiplier on the cpu, leaving the rest of the system untouched.

It's literally free performance, but is just there to appease enthusiasts who would otherwise move to AMD- Sandy Bridge is actually kind of a halfway step to eliminating overclocking. Intel has wanted to cut off overclockers forever, but AMD remaining somewhat competitive for the past decade has prevented them from doing it. It's a mindshare thing more than anything.

greasyhands fucked around with this message at 21:44 on Jan 3, 2011

movax
Aug 30, 2008

redeyes posted:

also, Marvel Yukon PCI-E Gig nics loving rock. You can get a nice Rosewill one from newegg for 25ish bucks.

Didn't Marvel buy some (all?) of that business from Intel? Or was that XScale?

Gunder posted:

If you're not planning on doing any overclocking, is there any point at all in getting the K versions of these chips? I was planning on getting a 2500. I have been told: "Overclocking the thing will be dead simple if you're not trying to max it out, and the cost increase is so minimal I personally think it would be worth it. It's only $11 more, after all. Any particular reason you're opposed to overclocking?". The thing is, I've always thought that overclocking gives you minimal performance at the cost of stability. Is this no longer the case? Am I a fool for not getting the 2500k?
So, with the -K you gain unlocked multiplier, but lose VT-d and TXT. You also get HD3000 graphics with the -K. The 2500 has VT-d, TXT, and the HD2000. In this case, it seems like every review I've read (Anandtech, HardOCP, others), the phrase "effortless overclock to 4.4GHz with stock cooler" is present. If the possibility of hitting that speed appeals to you, you should get the -K.

Of course, if your application demands VT-d and TXT, then the choice is forced upon you.

graph posted:

No, I don't think it's that.
No, it sure seems to be what some reviews are spergin' about.

Also, lots of Intel goons ITT.

shodanjr_gr
Nov 20, 2007
Does Intel's launch include Sandy-bridge based Xeons?

Mayne
Mar 22, 2008

To crooked eyes truth may wear a wry face.

movax posted:

I think everyone should seriously consider the "splurge" for getting the Intel solution; your torrents will thank you.

Do you have any links to reviews or proof for this? I have some cheap Attansic onboard gigabit card on my old C2D motherboard but i've never had any issue with torrenting. But i'm currently only on some 20Mbit connection and i'll be switching to cheaper 100Mbit which might change it, so Iim interested if there's any gains for paying 30$ for an Intel NIC.

Mayne fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Jan 3, 2011

punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.
Sorry for reposting this but it was the last post in the previous page:

punk rebel ecks posted:

So being that the 2500k costs Intel $216, how much will it likely sell for on a site like say Newegg?

So nobody has any idea going by previous CPU releases? Will it cost only a couple more bucks or will it gain a huge premium?

Inept
Jul 8, 2003

punk rebel ecks posted:

Sorry for reposting this but it was the last post in the previous page:


So nobody has any idea going by previous CPU releases? Will it cost only a couple more bucks or will it gain a huge premium?

It largely depends on how many of these processors vendors like Newegg are getting in. There's no way to be certain what demand will be like either. Just wait 2 days for them to come out and you'll have your answer.

Alereon
Feb 6, 2004

Dehumanize yourself and face to Trumpshed
College Slice

shodanjr_gr posted:

Does Intel's launch include Sandy-bridge based Xeons?
No, those launch in Q4.

punk rebel ecks posted:

So being that the 2500k costs Intel $216, how much will it likely sell for on a site like say Newegg?
Expect to pay within a few dollars of the wholesale price. Whether there will be a premium over that depends on how strong supply and demand are.

movax
Aug 30, 2008

LooKMaN posted:

Do you have any links to reviews or proof for this? I have some cheap Attansic onboard gigabit card on my old C2D motherboard but i've never had any issue with torrenting. But i'm currently only on some 20Mbit connection and i'll be switching to cheaper 100Mbit which might change it, so Iim interested if there's any gains for paying 30$ for an Intel NIC.

I'll try to dig up what I can, but to be perfectly honest, my bias towards Intel cards stems from their awesome performance in a few ipcop and pfSense routers I've built (and reports of it on mailing lists), and the lack of awesome performance from Realtek, Broadcom and Atheros add-in or integrated cards in the same systems. I know that there was a length thread on the Atheros sucking on my current mobo (P5Q Pro if I remember correctly), so I purchased an Intel PCIe GigE NIC, and gained jumbo frame support, and stopped losing connectivity intermittently whilst torrenting.

I also stream everything from a NAS, so maybe I was just abusing my card more than the average user. I still think folks should go for it if the price difference is negligible/you get other goodies for splurging (like more SATA, SLI, etc).

@punk rebel ecks: newegg has always price gouged, I don't remember how much E6600s were when they came out on the egg, but I do remember waiting like 3 months to get one. I think the Ks will see more of a premium, because newegg knows enthusiasts will pay for it and that a lot of people will want one

horribleslob
Nov 23, 2004
Could somebody break down for me what VT-d and TXT are and how they affect system performance? I've tried looking it up for myself but the amount of jargon is enough to make a legislator blush.

dud root
Mar 30, 2008
I too would like VT-d explained. To my understanding my E8400 doesn't have VT-d but it can run VMs

movax
Aug 30, 2008

Lief posted:

Could somebody break down for me what VT-d and TXT are and how they affect system performance? I've tried looking it up for myself but the amount of jargon is enough to make a legislator blush.

If you have to ask what TXT is, it probably isn't for you. From what I've seen, it's really geared for business use, and really shines when some disgruntled employees steals a desktop (or loses a laptop) and the data on the machine hopefully remains safe. Pretty sure it needs a TPM to even function.

VT-d is a virtualization extension that boosts performance of guest VMs by giving them among other things, DMA access to host hardware (basically the ability to remap DMA and interrupts). I want to say that this is most helpful when you're running a bare metal hypervisor like ESX, but I'm not 100% sure about that.

I don't think the average enthusiast would miss either of these (especially not TXT) in return for having an unlocked multiplier; I know I won't.

^^ VT-x is the generic virtualization tech that Intel intro'd to match up with AMD's AMD-V. It gives you extended page tables from the CPU, stopping the VM monitor from having to handle page faults.

VT-c is for network stuff, I don't know too much more about that. An Intel brief I saw split them up thusly: CPU is VT-x, Chipset is VT-d and Network is VT-c. It was some Xeon 5500 virtualization brief.

e: You don't need any specific hardware extensions to virtualize. Having them could greatly enhance your VM performance, however.

movax fucked around with this message at 00:54 on Jan 4, 2011

You Am I
May 20, 2001

Me @ your poasting

I think I nice i5-2500K plus whatever Asus motherboard to suit will be a good start for replacing my old Q6600 computer. Pretty pleased with the performance increase with SB.

Wedesdo
Jun 15, 2001
I FUCKING WASTED 10 HOURS AND $40 TODAY. FUCK YOU FATE AND/OR FORTUNE AND/OR PROBABILITY AND/OR HEISENBURG UNCERTAINTY PRINCIPLE.

I want the cheapest motherboard with:

* x8/x8 PCIe slots. None of this stupid x16/x4 crap that some manufacturers are doing.
* EFI
* Not poo poo quality.

I wonder if I can get a board like that for $100.

Octopode
Sep 2, 2009

No. I work here. I manage operations for this and integration for this, while making sure that their stuff keeps working in here.

Wedesdo posted:

I want the cheapest motherboard with:

* x8/x8 PCIe slots. None of this stupid x16/x4 crap that some manufacturers are doing.
* EFI
* Not poo poo quality.

I wonder if I can get a board like that for $100.

Well, for what it's worth, I was just at Fry's here in San Diego, and they had the Asus P8P67 Evo and Pro in stock. I picked up the Evo for just over $200, but the Pro was priced reasonably below that, around $140 if I remember correctly, so you should probably be able to pick up the base model P8P67 for $100 or just above.

movax
Aug 30, 2008

Octopode posted:

Well, for what it's worth, I was just at Fry's here in San Diego, and they had the Asus P8P67 Evo and Pro in stock. I picked up the Evo for just over $200, but the Pro was priced reasonably below that, around $140 if I remember correctly, so you should probably be able to pick up the base model P8P67 for $100 or just above.

I wish I had Fry's! I plan on getting the Pro, I wonder if Fry's.com or outpost.com has them...

The base P8P67 isn't bad, Legit Reviews got one. They said it cost $160.00 though.

Wedesdo
Jun 15, 2001
I FUCKING WASTED 10 HOURS AND $40 TODAY. FUCK YOU FATE AND/OR FORTUNE AND/OR PROBABILITY AND/OR HEISENBURG UNCERTAINTY PRINCIPLE.

movax posted:

I wish I had Fry's! I plan on getting the Pro, I wonder if Fry's.com or outpost.com has them...

The base P8P67 isn't bad, Legit Reviews got one. They said it cost $160.00 though.

The P8P67 has a 16x/4x split for the PCIe lanes. And if you use the 4x electrical slot, all the 1x slots get deactivated.

Dr. Gaius Baltar
Mar 12, 2008

I've been framed!
Will pretty much any basic Asus/Gigabyte/MSI etc ATX P67 motherboard allow you to OC the 2500K, or will we have to spend a few tens of dollars more for one that will let you change the 2500K's unlocked multiplier?

I think I heard, or maybe I dreamed, that you needed a slightly fancier motherboard to do just that. Hopefully I just misread a comment on a forgotten forum somewhere or something.

movax
Aug 30, 2008

Wedesdo posted:

The P8P67 has a 16x/4x split for the PCIe lanes. And if you use the 4x electrical slot, all the 1x slots get deactivated.

Hm, that's right, it doesn't have the PLX PCIe switch to offer up some more lanes. PCIe lanes are in such short supply :( Still, for a single GPU user that wants a decent board, should be fine (along with its Gigabyte rival). I can imagine someone having a single GPU and a x4 RAID card or something, or maybe single GPU + x1 NIC, x1 sound card.

e: Oh good, there are still PCI slots!

incoherent
Apr 24, 2004

01010100011010000111001
00110100101101100011011
000110010101110010
How are we regressing with reguards to PCIE slots :psyduck:

incoherent fucked around with this message at 05:18 on Jan 4, 2011

punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.

Alereon posted:

No, those launch in Q4.
Expect to pay within a few dollars of the wholesale price. Whether there will be a premium over that depends on how strong supply and demand are.

Excellent. That means I can build a new highend PC for only a bit more than $600 in a few months.

Fats
Oct 14, 2006

What I cannot create, I do not understand
Fun Shoe

incoherent posted:

How are we regressing with reguards to PCIE slots :psyduck:

Good question. I'm pretty sure this X58 board has 40 lanes, I imagined the Sandy Bridge stuff would have at least 32.

WhyteRyce
Dec 30, 2001

Fats posted:

Good question. I'm pretty sure this X58 board has 40 lanes, I imagined the Sandy Bridge stuff would have at least 32.

X58 is a high-end, enthusiast product, not a mainstream one which is what you are comparing it do.

PC LOAD LETTER
May 23, 2005
WTF?!

incoherent posted:

How are we regressing with reguards to PCIE slots :psyduck:
By moving the PCIe controller on die with the CPU they can save money and improve performance but it also means they have limited space for the additional pins needed for more PCIe lanes.

PCIe 2.0 bandwidth is good enough so that you don't need more than 8 lanes so even the Crossfire/SLI users will be OK. Its if you want to use Crossfire/SLI _and_ a 4x or 8x PCIe RAID card _and_ PCIe x1 sound card or NIC that you end up screwed. Not many people do that sort of think though so the fine folks at Intel don't really care.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
The LGA2011 variant this fall is going to have 40 or something lanes.

Sir Nigel
Jun 29, 2006

Combat Pretzel posted:

The LGA2011 variant this fall is going to have 40 or something lanes.

And, apparently, 4 memory channels instead of the usual 2 for 1156 or 3 for 1366.

incoherent
Apr 24, 2004

01010100011010000111001
00110100101101100011011
000110010101110010

WhyteRyce posted:

X58 is a high-end, enthusiast product, not a mainstream one which is what you are comparing it do.

I agree somewhat with this that yeah, we dont need 4 16x lanes, but most P55 mid-high end mobo manufactures were able to eek out 8x/8x/4x/1x configs.

WhyteRyce
Dec 30, 2001

incoherent posted:

I agree somewhat with this that yeah, we dont need 4 16x lanes, but most P55 mid-high end mobo manufactures were able to eek out 8x/8x/4x/1x configs.

You only have so many PCIe lanes on the PCH. The number of PCIe lanes on the PCH is still the same as it was on P55. Nothing in the configuration has changed except that all the lanes now can do gen 2 speeds. If you have less PCIe slots available it's because manufacturers insist on sticking useless poo poo like Firewire, a third party SATA controller, second NIC, or a PCIe->IDE chip on their high end boards. Or they decide that it's worth sticking a couple of PCI slots on the board instead of PCIe.

WhyteRyce fucked around with this message at 08:15 on Jan 4, 2011

Alereon
Feb 6, 2004

Dehumanize yourself and face to Trumpshed
College Slice

incoherent posted:

I agree somewhat with this that yeah, we dont need 4 16x lanes, but most P55 mid-high end mobo manufactures were able to eek out 8x/8x/4x/1x configs.
The Asus P8P67 Pro and higher all have 3xPCI-E x16 slots (not that you'll do much with that third slot). Give it a bit for high-end boards with NF200 or LucidLogix bridge chips and we'll have quad-SLI/crossfire boards.

MTW
Dec 30, 2004

by angerbot
Oh, what the gently caress? HW virtualization is gone on the K models? Yeah, not buying Sandy Bridge now.

Why the gently caress can't I have both overclocking and virtualization?

Alereon
Feb 6, 2004

Dehumanize yourself and face to Trumpshed
College Slice

MTW posted:

Oh, what the gently caress? HW virtualization is gone on the K models? Yeah, not buying Sandy Bridge now.

Why the gently caress can't I have both overclocking and virtualization?
You get VT-x, but not VT-d. Check movax's post up the page a bit for details of what these are. In short, it probably doesn't matter for desktop virtualization applications.

MTW
Dec 30, 2004

by angerbot

Alereon posted:

You get VT-x, but not VT-d. Check movax's post up the page a bit for details of what these are. In short, it probably doesn't matter for desktop virtualization applications.

Oh, ok. Am I losing performance by giving up VT-d? I often have two or more virtualized machines running.

Second Sun
Apr 6, 2009

by FactsAreUseless
Seeing the i3 variants not being overclockable is tremendously disappointing. I was looking at building a cheap pc for running dolphin and pcsx2 emulators (they only use 2 cores). Having a ~$100 4.5ghz cpu would have rocked.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
Not sure how Windows does it right now, but other operating systems use the IOMMU from VT-d for various driver related things outside of virtualisation, for performance reasons.

PC LOAD LETTER
May 23, 2005
WTF?!

Combat Pretzel posted:

The LGA2011 variant this fall is going to have 40 or something lanes.
Yea that is the new high end socket, going to be another expensive socket a la LGA 1366. For main stream I don't think you'll see pin counts that high for a long time.

some dillweed
Mar 31, 2007

Second Sun posted:

Seeing the i3 variants not being overclockable is tremendously disappointing. I was looking at building a cheap pc for running dolphin and pcsx2 emulators (they only use 2 cores). Having a ~$100 4.5ghz cpu would have rocked.
The roadmaps and pretty much all info from the past several months mentioning specifics stated that the "K" variants would be the only unlocked processors, and that the i5 2500K and i7 2600K were the only "K" CPUs on the roadmap for the initial release. Sorry that you're disheartened, but this shouldn't really be a surprise if you were following the lead-up so far.

EconOutlines
Jul 3, 2004

Anyone know the employee discount Intel gives their employees for hardware? My friend's brother works for Intel and I'm wondering if it would be worth it to ask him for a favor.

If its only 5-10% with a lot of hoops to jump through its not worth it but if not, I may just ask.

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Geno
Apr 26, 2004
STUPID
DICK

Roving Reporter posted:

Anyone know the employee discount Intel gives their employees for hardware? My friend's brother works for Intel and I'm wondering if it would be worth it to ask him for a favor.

If its only 5-10% with a lot of hoops to jump through its not worth it but if not, I may just ask.

it's roughly ~50% for Intel products.

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