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Slanderer posted:Also, am I imagining things, or was it hinted at that the interior of the house of the maker didn't exactly obey Euclidean geometry? There was that hilarious bit where Jezal giddily runs out into the light and goggles at the city far below, but when Glotka points out they never climbed and stairs he swallows his spit and meekly went back inside. 
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Jan 1, 2011 07:56
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I did some of my own research on Authors similar in vein to Abercrombie, which I use the term Brutal Fantasy. I'd really recommend the Lies of Locke Lamora by Scott Lynch it's part of the Gentleman Bastard series. I'm thinking of writing up a thread on just "dark" fantasy realistic fantasy recommendations.
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Jan 1, 2011 21:24
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Hollis posted:I'd really recommend the Lies of Locke Lamora by Scott Lynch it's part of the Gentleman Bastard series. If you hate authors that stop in the middle of a series, you should probably stay away from these. Republic of Thieves has been delayed 4 years and it's going GRRM strong with no signs of stopping. Yeah, yeah, he's been suffering from bad depression (I know from ongoing experience that clinical depression is a bitch and a half), but that doesn't make the whole situation any less frustrating. That said they're entertaining reads, but not without their faults. If you can avoid being a total goon and look past the problems, you should be able to enjoy them for what they are. Bummey fucked around with this message at 05:32 on Jan 2, 2011 |
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Jan 2, 2011 05:27
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Hollis posted:I did some of my own research on Authors similar in vein to Abercrombie, which I use the term Brutal Fantasy. I'd really recommend the Lies of Locke Lamora by Scott Lynch it's part of the Gentleman Bastard series. Please don't write anything ever.
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Jan 2, 2011 05:31
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I'd really like to see a "dark" fantasy thread, but haven't really read enough for a solid OP. I can only think of three, and they've already been posted here: GRRM, Superior Joey, and Mieville. I'd really like to expand my knowledge of this subgenre. Does Jack Vance count? His Dying Earth stories can get pretty grim, but he leans towards wordiness. What about Harold Lamb? He wrote adventure fiction in the teens and twenties, but a lot of it was semi-fantastical and the samples that I've read seem about as hardboiled as Abercrombie.
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Jan 2, 2011 07:10
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Grand Prize Winner posted:I'd really like to see a "dark" fantasy thread, but haven't really read enough for a solid OP. I can only think of three, and they've already been posted here: GRRM, Superior Joey, and Mieville. I'd really like to expand my knowledge of this subgenre. Does Jack Vance count? His Dying Earth stories can get pretty grim, but he leans towards wordiness. What about Harold Lamb? He wrote adventure fiction in the teens and twenties, but a lot of it was semi-fantastical and the samples that I've read seem about as hardboiled as Abercrombie. Mieville is dark fantasy? Isn't he New Weird?
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Jan 2, 2011 07:36
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Slanderer posted:I actually kinda liked that, surprisingly. As much as my physicist nature wants explanation, I think the ambiguity makes things slightly more interesting. Like with the house of the maker, for instance--we saw a couple of things that were awesome (the shanka pit, the divider), and we are left with no idea about what other crazy things might be sealed away there forever. There's a danger to over-explaining things, I think. Go too far and you kill the magic or mystery entirely.
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Jan 2, 2011 21:12
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Richard Morgan's The Steel Remains is very Abercrombiesh. It's a great book. I will warn you there are several man on man graphic sex scenes if that sort of thing bothers you just skip them. He's also the only fantasy writer I've read other than Delany that's had a actual semi believeable gay main character. "I killed dragons, motherfucker" is probably one of the greatest lines in a fantasy book.
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Jan 3, 2011 00:12
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The Steel Remains is another good suggestion. I got into it so much at the end I was disappointed to learn that it's the only book of the series to have come out yet. On a related note, would you recommend any other fantasy series with realistic gay characters? There just aren't that many out there  .
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Jan 3, 2011 00:38
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Samuel Delaney's Return to the Neveryon series deals with homosexuality and is a fantasy novel. It's only one or two stories in the novels. Delaney's written several novels with homosexual main characters that are based in a fantasy universe. There's not a lot of LGBT fiction that is mainstream, alot of it falls in the "erotic novels with fantasy elements" genre.
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Jan 3, 2011 00:49
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Yadoppsi posted:The Steel Remains is another good suggestion. I got into it so much at the end I was disappointed to learn that it's the only book of the series to have come out yet. Mark Charan Newton's Nights of Villjamur deals with a gay protagonist fairly realistically. He's sort in the vein of Mieville (though a little more ancient). His series deals with a world entering an eternal ice age as their sun begins to die.
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Jan 3, 2011 01:48
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Yadoppsi posted:The Steel Remains is another good suggestion. I got into it so much at the end I was disappointed to learn that it's the only book of the series to have come out yet. Check out this series of posts on Tor.com: http://www.tor.com/tags/queering%20sff
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Jan 3, 2011 04:06
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I'm nearly done with the second book of the trilogy now, but I just had to say - holy poo poo! I've rarely been as satisfied with a book as I was when West shoved Ladisla off the cliff. I'm really enjoying these books so far.
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Jan 4, 2011 06:16
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Say one thing for Joe Abercrombie... say that motherfucker just got paid. http://www.joeabercrombie.com/2011/01/04/new-year-new-deal/ 4 more books after the Heroes (a standalone and another trilogy). Nice.
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Jan 5, 2011 22:54
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Fantastic news. The great thing is that you know he'll get them done, too. My anticipation for The Heroes is pretty high at this point. Just wish I could make it to his Edinburgh book signing. 
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Jan 5, 2011 23:04
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Bizob posted:Say one thing for Joe Abercrombie... say that motherfucker just got paid. Joe Abercrombie is the anti-fantasy author. He puts out books on schedule, blogs with self-deprecating humor, isn't 300 pounds, doesn't have a nasty lumberjack beard, and writes "dark" fantasy without having a character raped every couple paragraphs.
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Jan 5, 2011 23:52
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keiran_helcyan posted:Joe Abercrombie is the anti-fantasy author. He puts out books on schedule, isn't 300 pounds, doesn't have a nasty lumberjack beard Lumberjack beards are a thing of beauty and magnificence, wondrous and terrible to behold. The writer you're referring to does not have a lumberjack beard. You watch your words! 
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Jan 6, 2011 02:41
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Bummey posted:Lumberjack beards are a thing of beauty and magnificence, wondrous and terrible to behold. The writer you're referring to does not have a lumberjack beard. You watch your words! Lumberjack beard are actually terrible and all lumberjacks are terrible and you're terrible. edit: I mean that in the nicest manner possible.
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Jan 7, 2011 14:47
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A fantasy author is judged by his beard. It is a testament to his success.
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Jan 7, 2011 21:51
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Finally finished Best Served Cold, just in time for The Heroes!  Pretty sad the way things turned out for everyone involved. Everyone except Cosca anyway. Cosca owns though. IRQ fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Jan 8, 2011 |
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Jan 8, 2011 19:38
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If you haven't listened to the audio book yet for TFL, I recommend you do so right away. Steven Pacey does a fantastically amazing job, he made the books come alive better than any TV series possibly could. And I don't usually enjoy re-reading books as much the 2nd time through either. He just did all the voices so drat well.. like for example has his narrative voice, then a voice for Glokta's thoughts, and a superb Glokta voice complete with lisp.. the way he switches between them all so effortlessly is really something to behold. hard to describe with words how great it all is found a good sample here, just below the picture: http://www.audible.com/pd/ref=pd_rsp_1?asin=B003NHEU1M no pantsu fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Jan 9, 2011 |
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Jan 9, 2011 03:57
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no pantsu posted:If you haven't listened to the audio book yet for TFL, I recommend you do so right away. Steven Pacey does a fantastically amazing job, he made the books come alive better than any TV series possibly could. And I don't usually enjoy re-reading books as much the 2nd time through either. He just did all the voices so drat well.. like for example has his narrative voice, then a voice for Glokta's thoughts, and a superb Glokta voice complete with lisp.. the way he switches between them all so effortlessly is really something to behold. hard to describe with words how great it all is What are the sex scenes like? I don't even want to think of someone reading those aloud. Gross. Bummey fucked around with this message at 04:48 on Jan 9, 2011 |
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Jan 9, 2011 04:42
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Bummey posted:What are the sex scenes like? I don't even want to think of someone reading those aloud. Gross. AH UR AH UR OH Those marginal vocalizations were easily the only complaint I have about Ambercrombie. Uh
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Jan 9, 2011 06:26
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iirc there's only 1 descriptive sex scene in the series, and as it's mostly just narration and only a few moans..it was just fine really. it's BSC that has all the sex and yes that one was a little uncomfortable to listen to
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Jan 9, 2011 07:24
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I'm hesitant about starting the first law trilogy because word has it that the ending sucks. My question: how bad is it? GRRM isn't that bad because the characters that get bitched over all have big flaws which make it somewhat deserving. Can the same be said for first law or will the end just depress the poo poo out of me for the sake of being depressing and no other reason? Are there any redeeming qualities about it?
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Jan 9, 2011 07:47
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brizna posted:I'm hesitant about starting the first law trilogy because word has it that the ending sucks. My question: how bad is it? GRRM isn't that bad because the characters that get bitched over all have big flaws which make it somewhat deserving. Can the same be said for first law or will the end just depress the poo poo out of me for the sake of being depressing and no other reason? Are there any redeeming qualities about it? The ending is loving great. What are you talking about? Don't hesitate, just read this poo poo.
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Jan 9, 2011 07:51
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brizna posted:I'm hesitant about starting the first law trilogy because word has it that the ending sucks. My question: how bad is it? GRRM isn't that bad because the characters that get bitched over all have big flaws which make it somewhat deserving. Can the same be said for first law or will the end just depress the poo poo out of me for the sake of being depressing and no other reason? Are there any redeeming qualities about it? Everyone ends up very unhappy, and they deserve to be. The ending doesn't suck at all, and the ending isn't unsatifying or bad. The characters all have flaws like GRRM's do that lead to those unhappy endings being very deserving. Nobody in Ambercrombie's books is innocent, good, or undeserving of their unhappy fate. Grey(black) morality is actually a huge central theme of his, and nobody is ever really the good guy; you will in fact empathize most with objectively horrible people, but while you like them, they do deserve what they get. If that bothers you then don't read Abercrombie. I think it makes his books especially compelling. But the ending does NOT suck.
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Jan 9, 2011 08:08
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The ending to first law was really satisfying and enjoyable I defiantly recommend the series to anyone who likes grrm. In regards to people deserving their fates though Other than glotka getting crippled before the story even starts nothing bad really happens to him and his story is clawing his way to the top of the inquisition. He even gets that weird relationship with wests sister taking care of him and anyone in the know fears him as the real power behind the union sure he is just another of bayaz puppets but he's better off than most people especially west and all those who got magic radiation sicness. Even bayaz gets visibly younger maybe even stronger by mucking with the key to the gate between worlds. Zasze fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Jan 10, 2011 |
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Jan 10, 2011 01:09
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What? No. Regarding Glokta: He has to keep living his life. That's a pretty grim ending, all things considered.
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Jan 10, 2011 02:50
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Ornamented Death posted:What? No. Regarding Glokta: In one of his last chapters Glokta also says something to the effect of, "I've struggled to claw my way out from beneath a dark and terrible master to find a new one, darker and more terrible by far, looming above me stiill." Other being of a higher rank and living in a bigger house with a prettier servant (all luxuries Glotka can in no way enjoy) he's in the exact same position he began the books in.
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Jan 10, 2011 05:26
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Also Glokta being the cause of Ardee basically becoming his nurse must torment him, and she's probably more of a drunk than ever too. On top of that he has to continue living, deal with that retard Jezal, and be beholden to Bayaz when all he really wants, even if he can't manage it himself, is to die. There is literally no happiness to be had in Abercrombie's world. Even the guy who logically comes out on top of everything returns to being a raging alcoholic. IRQ fucked around with this message at 05:39 on Jan 10, 2011 |
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Jan 10, 2011 05:37
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You know your books are pretty dark when just surviving is seen as a grim ending.
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Jan 10, 2011 05:39
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I view the endings as being like in The Wire, where they're not fairy tale, or even happy but very satisfying. Logen's ending in particular was a great way to finish his story and although not classically happy was very fitting.
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Jan 10, 2011 05:44
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Forget Ice and Fire, I want to see an HBO series of these so hard. I think they're the only company that wouldn't try to sugar-coat it.
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Jan 10, 2011 07:36
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there's no way a tv series would work for this series as there's just way too many thoughts from the characters (like the ones in italics) that couldnt be done on TV also, regarding the ending.. I would argue Glokta's position is greatly improved. Not only have glokta/ardee managed to find each other's company bearable at the least, if not sometimes enjoyable, but now both of them are no longer in constant danger. Furthermore not being under Sult's command but rather Bayaz's is an improvement on his stress level I'd say, and Bayaz also needs Glokta more than Sult did, and of course Glokta's gone from a lowly underling who had almost no options or power, to the most powerful man in the union with much more freedom to do as he pleases.
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Jan 10, 2011 08:17
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Oh, Glokta is in constant danger, probably more than ever, since he's now the most powerful guy in the Union. When he was just some guy, he wasn't important enough to poison, now he's important, and responsible for that dumbass Jezall. All it would ever take is someone hiring a poisoner like Morveer to do him in. Glokta was presented as clever, but not cleverer than Morveer.
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Jan 10, 2011 09:47
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You guys are forgetting one simple fact: no matter how powerful he is, Glokta still shits himself every night and has to have someone else clean it up. I'm pretty sure the dude would welcome death.
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Jan 10, 2011 18:06
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I just finished the trilogy and really liked it. The ending of Last Argument of Kings is depressing and somewhat unsatisfying, but it fits perfectly with the themes of the book. Nobody gets what they deserve, people turn around and inflict their own pains on others, etc. There are people who get better than what they deserve though, so the ending isn't sad for them. I don't agree that Ardee has a sad ending to her story. Ardee is basically correct about Jezal's offer to be his concubine. He's too self-absorbed for her to rely on him in the long term. Her marriage with Sand, on the other hand, makes sense for her. Remember that Ardee has terrible self-esteem. Being married to a cripple who shits the bed makes sense to her, even if the other characters have a hard time understanding that. In fact, Glokta's probably the only other character in the book who would naturally understand Ardee's motivations, and it shows in their conversation. So I think that was actually a good ending for her, regardless of how unconventional their marriage will probably become. Colonol West was just loving unfair though. He's the closest thing the book has to a genuine hero. All the bad things that he's done were justified at the time, except for beating his sister. That happened once, and I'm fairly sure that his remorse, and the action he takes because of that remorse, mean that we can forgive him his one truly negative act throughout the books. Other than that, who was West other than an admirable gentleman and officer, who, through little fault of his own, was constantly angry at the system?
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Jan 10, 2011 18:53
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Actually I'm pretty sure Ardee got exactly what she deserved.
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Jan 11, 2011 04:39
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How is what happened to her all that much of a negative? I mean, plenty of definitely worse things than being married to a bedshitting cripple could be arranged for a king's former lover. They may even have something near a functional relationship. I really, really hope West isn't dead. He's imperfect but dying of goddamn radiation poisoning is no way for someone of his caliber to go. I hope/suspect we'll see more from him as some kind of reaaaaally crippled high commander. edit: spoiled dat poo poo edit2: who plays J. dan Luthar in the imaginary HBO miniseries? I say Orlando Bloom only without any fake English accent. Christopher Lee is of course Bayaz. A man can dream, right? 
Grand Prize Winner fucked around with this message at 05:00 on Jan 11, 2011 |
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Jan 11, 2011 04:56
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